RAWK Goes Into Meltdown (2012/2013)

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Jippy said:
He really has been promoted to messianic status. At least a few are recognising that he blew it in 2009.
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After the defeat at Fulham on February 18 - when we were still ahead of Liverpool - we dropped a total of two points in our remaining fixtures. Saying that Benitez and Liverpool blew it does our performance a great disservice.

Liverpool overachieved in 08/09, they didn't blow anything, they simply lost out to a bloody strong team.
 
Siorac said:
After the defeat at Fulham on February 18 - when we were still ahead of Liverpool - we dropped a total of two points in our remaining fixtures. Saying that Benitez and Liverpool blew it does our performance a great disservice.

Liverpool overachieved in 08/09, they didn't blow anything, they simply lost out to a bloody strong team.
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Indeed. They couldn't have done anything more to win it at that point, I think they won all but one games in their run in as well (4-4 draw v Arsenal). People often think that Liverpool blew a big lead that year because they were 8 points ahead around Christmas. What they don't remember though is that we had 2 games in hand at the time and we won both of them.
 
If they don't get champs league very soon they won't be able to hold onto Suarez and with Gerrard fast heading into retirement they are really going to struggle. You can see the trend as they have no champs league income. They keep signing mid table type players and now they are turning into an Everton type club. Shows you how important making the top 4 is both financially and for the prestige in keeping and attracting top players. Unless they get a new set of owners with serious money ala City it will be another 20 years before they get close to a title (sad that as the challenge was exciting roll on FFP for me)
 
Time to resurrect an old one that gets better with time.

Rawk said:
Worthy of his place in the side for his free kicks, corners, and penalties alone. After failing to make much of an impact at one of the bigger clubs in his country during the start of his career, leaving to go on loan twice during his time there, it was while at an unfashionable "lesser" team that he made his mark in the top flight and was transferred to a European giant, destined to be the player to dictate play with long range passing from a deep "pivot" position. This is the story of Charlie Adam. This is the story of Andrea Pirlo.

The story of Andrea Pirlo is one twinned with Charlie Adam. While Pirlo had 2 seasons at Brescia during the beginning of his career before moving to Inter, Adam chose to leave his boyhood team, Dundee, almost immediately and headed for Rangers. While Pirlo made little impact at Inter, Adam initially suffered the same fate. Both players were sent on loan to develop (Pirlo to Reggina and Brescia, Adam to Ross County and St. Mirren) with the benefit of hindsight it can now be said both players were out of position. Charlie Adam was played multiple times at centre-back, Andrea Pirlo was in front of the central midfield.

After his loan spells Andrea Pirlo was transferred to A.C. Milan where he would eventually come under the tutelage of Carlo Ancelotti. In a move that would set the rhythm for AC Milan for the next 10 years Ancelotti moved Pirlo. Pirlo was moved deeper, in front of the back 4, he was to sit and use his accurate long range passing to start moves and to spread the ball across the pitch. A pivot was born. Where once there was a slow, methodical, Italian, style from Milan there was now a quick slinging catapult sitting in front of the back 4, winning the ball and propelling the team forward in an instant. The fact Pirlo was able to do this 10-20 yards further back than a regular central midfielder meant AC Milan were playing with, almost, an extra body in defence. This allowed a succession of Milan full backs to flow forward, Maldini, Cafu, Zambrotta all benefited from the security of an extra man covering their tracks, while Milan never sacrificed their attacking impetus. All the while holding in their pocket a deadly set-piece weapon.

During Andrea Pirlo's reign at Milan the position of the pivot was taken on by other teams and other players around the world. One of the teams that imported a pivot was Liverpool. In Xabi Alonso Liverpool had a player who could match Pirlo in his ability to pick a pass from any point on the pitch. The pair met in 2 Champions League finals over 3 seasons. From the very first minute the duel was on. Paolo Maldini headed in from Pirlo's free-kick, Alonso went on to score a penalty, Pirlo would miss in the penalty shoot-out but would go on to rectify his fault by again providing a free-kick assist in the 2007 final, in this final-sandwich Pirlo was reintroduced to the Italy side, having been frozen out by Trappatoni, and under Lippi Pirlo would go on to set up the equaliser in the World Cup final and score in the penalty shoot out.

Xabi Alonso went on to dictate Liverpool's play like Pirlo did at Milan. Liverpool's best period of play coincided with Alonso's. From a 2nd place finish Liverpool lost Alonso, encountered problems, and dropped down to 7th. With Barcelona sweeping all aside with their own long-ranger in Xavi the age of the Pivot is upon us. Losing Alonso meant a central partnership of Lucas and Mascherano, while both players are industrious excellent defensive players neither possesses the ability to regularly pick out passes over 20 yards. This meant Lucas and Mascherano were tripping over each other's feet, neither player was poor but with no balance in the side both began to look it. With Alonso Liverpool moved the ball forward with enough speed and accuracy that players such as Dirk Kuyt would receive the ball high enough up the pitch so as to neutralise pace and control frailties, with Lucas and Mascherano the ball got forward at a laborious pace. While Liverpool have tried to replicate what Alonso brought to the team with Gerrard, Aquilani, and Spearing nobody has been able to match the ability of staying deep while playing the ball accurate, long, at pace like Alonso did. The style of play changed under Dalglish but playing short pass and move football meant holes appearing in the midfield as players stepped up to help move the ball. Dalglish may finally have found the man to replace Alonso. Charlie Adam is the new pivot.

Like Pirlo before him Adam played out of position while on loan at "lesser" clubs, Adam seemed to be an adequate centre half with some good distribution. Like Pirlo Adam found a mentor at his new team, Ian Holloway would move Adam into the pivot role and the Scot would soon take over all set piece responsibilities. After impressing all who saw him Adam has finally got his dream move. The question now is can he live up to the role?

I asked John, who runs the excellent Tangerine Dreaming blog, back in March how Adam would fit into Liverpool, and if he could step into the "Pivot" role.

"This season he has played for us in a part of a 3 man mid. Vaughan holds deep and Grandin plays the more advanced attacking role. In effect this means he plays a link role between defence and attack. He can track back and will cover runners in behind the defensive line. He will also close down the opposition and make tackles. For this reason he can play the deeper role more than adequately. From the deeper role he can distribute effectively over short and long distance. The comparison to Alonso isn't too ludicrous. Basically he has the range of Alonso with his passing, but not the precision or the awareness of the fact that he can control game tempo like Alonso can. I think the fact Liverpool have better players will be to Charlie's advantage. He plays exquiste passes that our players just don't read and end up being wasted

Adam could stretch the play left and right and beyond the defence as well as balls to Carroll's head. He'd be able to give you great flexibility in approach

One thing to ponder which isn't widely known, is that Charlie feels his best position is at centre half, he often drops deep in to a sweeper role and might be more than useful as a modern day sweeper. He's taller than most people think he is, 6'' 1' and is excellent in the air both defensively and attacking."

From the sounds of somebody who watched Adam on a weekly basis he's been playing the pivot for 2 seasons now. The danger lies in Adam's temperament, can he keep the cool Pirlo-esque head or will his temper/leadership lead to indiscipline and a taste for the unnecessary Hollywood show? The answer to this question will come to define Adam's career.

Charlie Adam can become the Liverpool metronome for the next 10 years, his defensive abilities combined with his excellent distribution mean that, under Dalglish, Adam can become the next in the line of excellent pivots, allowing the players around him to advance while maintaining an almost defensive position. All the while the deadly set piece option remains in the back pocket. After a long search Xabi Alonso may finally become a distant memory.
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Has Adam really played as a centre half, ever? He's the last person on Earth I'd accuse of it.
 
From the sounds of somebody who watched Adam on a weekly basis he's been playing the pivot for 2 seasons now. The danger lies in Adam's temperament, can he keep the cool Pirlo-esque head or will his temper/leadership lead to indiscipline and a taste for the unnecessary Hollywood show? The answer to this question will come to define Adam's career.
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Or maybe his career is defined by the quality of his football which is so inferior to the Italian legend.It's got nothing to do with temperament :lol:
 
Siorac said:
After the defeat at Fulham on March 21 - when we were still ahead of Liverpool - we dropped a total of two points in our remaining fixtures. Saying that Benitez and Liverpool blew it does our performance a great disservice.

Liverpool overachieved in 08/09, they didn't blow anything, they simply lost out to a bloody strong team.
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Fixed we beat them 3-0 on Feb 18. :smirk:
 
Sarni said:
Has Adam really played as a centre half, ever? He's the last person on Earth I'd accuse of it.
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Every game he plays like a Centre Half. Too deep to get forward, loves the hollywood hoof upfield to keep play ticking over.

Also - go back to RAWK circa 2011 summer transfer window. Man that is some hilarious reading. Carroll to be come a world beater. Adam the perfect signing. Henderson is Englands greatest hope (gotta love the anti-Cleverley bitter complex that spawned from TC being miles better than Hendo) Dalglish to rule the world.

Vintage stuff that year. Nothing will ever top it methinks.
 
ghaliboy said:
Every game he plays like a Centre Half. Too deep to get forward, loves the hollywood hoof upfield to keep play ticking over.

Also - go back to RAWK circa 2011 summer transfer window. Man that is some hilarious reading. Carroll to be come a world beater. Adam the perfect signing. Henderson is Englands greatest hope (gotta love the anti-Cleverley bitter complex that spawned from TC being miles better than Hendo) Dalglish to rule the world.

Vintage stuff that year. Nothing will ever top it methinks.
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They have a complete reverse mentality compared to folks on here. If we had a Summer with signings of Adam, Henderson, Downing and Carroll half a year before this place would get absolutely mental, and rightly so, yet RAWKites convinced themselves that Adam was Pirlo, Henderson was Xavi, Downing was Robben and Carroll was Zlatan (funnily enough they could have signed Pirlo the same Summer for peanuts as that's when he moved to Juve).
 
Sarni said:
They have a complete reverse mentality compared to folks on here.
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This, I believe, is true. I mean, just look at this thread title (posted when all the talk of Sturridge joining Liverpool was in the air):

'The 6foot 2inch tall Daniel Sturridge'

Yeah, what a colossus DS is... :rolleyes:

More sensibly, a poster complains about such RAWK boosting of average players:

'Allen maestro, Lucas General, Wisdom Collusus & other such shite'
 
'6foot 2 inch tall Daniel Sturridge - Will tell you to go and order some if you nick his fries'
 
ghaliboy said:
Every game he plays like a Centre Half. Too deep to get forward, loves the hollywood hoof upfield to keep play ticking over.

Also - go back to RAWK circa 2011 summer transfer window. Man that is some hilarious reading. Carroll to be come a world beater. Adam the perfect signing. Henderson is Englands greatest hope (gotta love the anti-Cleverley bitter complex that spawned from TC being miles better than Hendo) Dalglish to rule the world.

Vintage stuff that year. Nothing will ever top it methinks.
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Ahh good memories. Definitely the pinnacle of Scouse delusion back then.
 
On journalist Dion Fanning's recent article criticising Brendan Rodgers:

I think you telly underestimate Fanning, he is no one's pasty.
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Here's the article & relevant page, mate:

Surplus of virtues looks fine in theory but not in practice

Football's great truth is that managers need time, although it's probably not true at all. Good managers need time; bad managers look as lost after two years as they were after two months. The reason this doesn't become clear is that, due to the extreme Darwinism of football, bad managers aren't usually in a job after two years.

Should owners also be given time? Two years ago FSG made the first big decision of their ownership of Liverpool when they dismissed Roy Hodgson. Nothing they have done since has worked out as well.

The appointment of Brendan Rodgers was trailed as the moment FSG started trusting their instincts. They had reluctantly appointed Kenny Dalglish and then they took the brave decision to dismiss him.

In the summer, they had promised a smarter way of doing things. Some of these ideas have been implemented, some haven't. Signs of superior intelligence have yet to be detected.

One of the ideas was that Liverpool would operate as a collective. Rodgers doesn't act alone in the transfer market. Some within the club were said to have questioned the wisdom of paying £15m for Joe Allen which looks like a very good question.

The idea of the collective will only go so far. If Rodgers fails, it should be said that FSG have failed as they have failed so often in key appointments. Whatever happens to Rodgers should now also happen to them. The idea that this would be a season of transition predates Rodgers. Liverpool were planning to cut the wage bill and introduce some young players no matter who took the job. This was a sensible approach and a compelling one when it comes to boosting the morale of whoever transfers the money into Joe Cole's account each month.

Transition works best, however, if there is some indication where you might be going. If the transition was the transition from big club to small club, then the transition can be said to be going entirely to plan.

John W Henry promised in September that Liverpool wouldn't be stung in the transfer market again. This week Liverpool will sign Daniel Sturridge for £12m. John W Henry hasn't been seen or heard from much since he made those promises. He had been the most articulate supporter of the new philosophy at Liverpool.

Henry and FSG bought into Rodgers' pitch last summer, even if right now it seems like merely a spiel rather than the initial declaration of an outstanding manager.

Perhaps the plan to make this a season of transition has made Rodgers sound as he does at Liverpool. The club needed a salesman and they got one. For whatever reason, Rodgers appears to have no noticeable competitive instinct. If he has, it has been very well disguised.

If he is to become a great coach, he may do so despite being one of the few who doesn't place not losing high on the list of priorities. Rodgers has always looked sanguine when reflecting on one of Liverpool's many, many defeats this season. Perhaps he is ferocious in the dressing room and simply protects his players in public.

Others might suggest that Rodgers is showing that most essential trait in a coach, the ability not to over-react to victory or defeat.

Yet when Liverpool beat Fulham a week after the capitulation to Aston Villa, Rodgers did not shrug or ask more from his team. In fact, he couldn't have been happier if he had done the post-match interviews in a funny hat while reading out bad jokes from Christmas crackers. Fulham had played as if they felt their civil liberties were being infringed simply by being asked to travel so far from home but Rodgers took the opportunity to hail his team.

"There were aspects of the game where I saw everything I want my team to be and that was the most encouraging aspect of what was an outstanding response to last week's defeat."

Liverpool's outstanding response to that victory was another defeat, this time to Stoke. Chad Harbach suggests in The Art of Fielding that coaching involves telling a player the story he wants to hear about himself, emphasising the struggle and the obstacles that were going to get in the way. "People loved to suffer, as long as the suffering made sense."

Rodgers tells a story of beautiful losers. He talks magnificently. His team will cause "death by football", he said, even though death in football is always caused by victory.

Liverpool have played some nice football this season but the philosophy which has gained most ground at Anfield is a philosophy of losing.

There are other styles of management. There are those who will point to Alex Ferguson as the role model. They will recall the Scottish Cup final in 1983 and the glorious scenes of celebration as Aberdeen beat Rangers. As his players cavorted behind him, Ferguson gave a post-match interview during which he described the Cup-winning performance as disgraceful.

He may have subsequently apologised for his comments but Ferguson was setting certain standards. By giving an interview on what for normal men would be a happy occasion and suggesting that these cup-winning players would be lucky to play for the club again, he was developing his own ideas of death by football. Or death by Alex Ferguson. Ferguson, of course, was given time at Manchester United, a fateful decision as it allowed all who came after him, most of them bad managers, to suggest that they needed time as well.

Rodgers has given few indications since he arrived at Liverpool that he will do much with time. Daniel Sturridge will sign for Liverpool this week. He has been described as an unimaginative signing which would be fine if he turns out to be good.

Liverpool have made a series of unimaginative signings in the last two years. In other words, they have signed a lot of British players. Few of them have been any good.

Rodgers sounds less and less convincing. He is the Aaron Sorkin of football, a man who promotes beautiful notions that have no connection to the real world with a relentless zeal. Usually by the 23rd episode of one of Sorkin's shows, some of us are feeling nauseous and repressing feelings of irrational hatred towards the impossibly virtuous characters.

Rodgers promotes a style of football that is over-burdened with virtue but lacks knowledge of how the world works. He gave his players Christmas Day off, a wonderful gesture, especially to the people of Stoke who Liverpool were playing the next day.

FSG will give him time because they have no option – they are giving themselves time too. Time might help Brendan Rodgers, but, it would help him most of all if he used it to become a different type of manager. Unless Rodgers changes, time won't change anything.

dfanning@independent.ie

- Dion Fanning

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...ne-in-theory-but-not-in-practice-3338754.html

RAWK thread page:

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=301493.240

(And the page where the 'pasty' quote is):

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=301493.320
 
nahealai said:
I'd read Fanning most weeks and his man-love for Benitez is very, very scary.

It seems that whoever Liverpool appoint whose name isn't Rafael Benitez, Fanning will have an agenda against them.
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He is very pro-Rafa but his reservations echo a lot of mine at the moment. Questions need to be asked, although obviously it's very premature to ultimately judge Rodgers just yet.
 
ShadesOfTomato said:
He is very pro-Rafa but his reservations echo a lot of mine at the moment. Questions need to be asked, although obviously it's very premature to ultimately judge Rodgers just yet.
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The cringiest article I've ever read was one which Fanning interviewed Benitez not long after he took over at Inter.

It was the first time I've ever read about a homosexual encounter in a family Sunday newspaper.
 
verminater said:
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The lad is our 4th top scorer in all competitions this season!
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That doesnt say much mate when he's scored 3 goals in 25 appearances! headbangingwallyoke.gif

One less than Evra and Evans then!
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I'm Liverpool's fifth top scorer this season.
 
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