Rasmus Hojlund (Out)

[bringbackbebe]

I've said before that those comparisons were no fair, because mostly are done with Monday's newspaper and comparing him with former great to legendary players at 21. Also many of them with entire different styles to Rasmus, capable of doing more stuff by themselves without the help of the team (even if every player needs that of course).

Yet at the same time, the sort of in many ways praise involved in your phrase, won't help either. If it was said in an historical sense like the examples mentioned, he is nowehere near many of those names. If it's said in terms of right now, potential doesn't mean showing very little at the moment, that phrase would have worked better last season.

In many ways also since it's a role that in these last years have been many times left aside for more polivalent, all around forwards, second strikers/mediapuntas/false 9's. The tendency for producing such specific role players declined, so this created an scenario where he could even shine more given there is less competition for it (it happens even with Erling too). In many ways it's one of the main reasons why even United still plays him quite a lot, that lack of more competition for that role in his very own team.

All in all, the timing is awful for him for many reaosn and the anxiety it's eating him alive and under the spotlight. Yet like happens too many times in football, sometimes just a couple of even fluke goals, the team actually being better, gaining confidence again and stuff changes all of a sudden, more in his role. Yet he has to do it fair or not, because if not he'll loose the train in this sort of madness United is immerse since time.

I don't disagree. Like Hargreaves put it, normally, he'd be 3rd or 4th choice striker in a Fergie squad slowly being bedded into the team learning from established forwards at their prime. Here unfortunately, he's expected to shoulder the burden of the club at the age of 21. While Rasmus has a lot to improve on, there is a bigger structural failure at play.

 

[Fobal]

I don’t get the Aguero reference. He was scoring basically a goal a game at 16. He is the epitome of an elite youngster which is the type of players we should be signing. Players like Hojlund we should allow to fulfil their potential and not fast track there progress. The club neither the player benefits.

I've been saying since quite a number of posts that talking with Monday's newspaper about some of the names threw here when they were 21 or less it's not fair, it doesn't have much to do with Rasmus actually getting better in time or not.

That's why I quoted Giorno as a very simple and conclusive post regarding current Rasmus situation/ expectations and the over the top money involved at the time he was bought

 

[honirelandboy]

Does he have the mentality like Diallo to go out on loan to the championship for a year or even six months next season. Think would be the best option now for him. Our Club is mad, 80 million Hojlund, 80 million Sancho, 90 million Anthony, 70 million Casemeiro. Honestly don't know how we are so so bad with transfers.

City and Liverpool are so far ahead of us in that regards with regards spotting talent, are our scouts absolute dog bad or not giving the funding to travel and watch games across Europe or something. What's going on there.

 

[Lay]

You could say that’s down to the lesser teams in the prem getting stronger. Normally a Bournemouth, Brentford will find themselves in a relegation battle after surviving.

I wouldn’t pay attention to the top scorers it’s still a development league. Players go there improve and hopefully the best players move on to better things.

Well that's my point. The money in the league means they can keep getting stronger which means the Championship sides just can't compete. Hojlund scoring 20 goals in the Championship isn't going to do much for him when he will be playing against far superior opposition in the EPL.

 

[sullydnl]

Non-penalty goals per 90 for some recent PL strikers. Rates of returns the same or worse than Hojlund's in bold.

Hojlund (21 years old): 0.17, 0.42.
Watkins (29 years old): 0.45, 0.53, 0.40, 0.30, 0.35
Toney (28 years old): 0.25, 0.43, 0.22
Solanke (27 years old): 0.39, 0.46, 0.19, 0.40
Jesus (27 years old): 0.44, 0.24, 0.44,

Hojlund obviously shouldn't be our first choice striker, and we obviously paid too much for him, and you can make whatever arguments about him being worse in general play than X player.

But the reality is that there aren't that many oustanding strikers in the league. And Hojlund's rate of returns last year was in line with what the above B-tier strikers produce, with few scoring at a significantly better rate in recent years despite being significantly older.

He clearly shouldn't be our first choice CF. But now that he's here, I don't really see the upside in moving him on rather than backing him to develop into a striker who regularly scores at a similar B-tier rate to the above, which would also be useful to have in the squad and a good standard for a 2nd choice CF.

 

[giorno]

As I said to the other chap, it would take a very brave board to sanction 110m + salary + bonuses on a 30 year old Kane

It also wouldn't matter because Spurs were never selling to when they could sell to Bayern

 

[Havak]

The main thing to consider is whether the chance to develop him further for a year before contemplating an outright sale.

He cost us £62m (although I'd imagine some of that is add-on based) in 2023, on a 5-year contract. Close to £12.5m per year for the way financial rules work. There's always more to it than the simple maths, but he'll have used up two years at the end of this season meaning we can take off £25m of that tag. That means to break even on him, we would need to sell for £37m. Do we think any team will be paying that at the moment? He's reportedly on £85k a week, so I think it boils down to whether not having him on the books (and probably making a small-ish loss) on him is worth the risk of just trying to let him develop more for a year? For what it's worth, I think another year of development where he isn't asked to be the main striker, would probably see him perform better and mean we would only need to sell him for above £25m to not lose out.

Personally, I have less faith in Zirkzee being the kind of player we need for Amorim's style of play. He cost more like £35m on a 5-year contract, so we'd have to sell him for £28m~ to break even - he's also on £105k a week. To me, losing Zirkzee makes both more financial sense and removes a player with less potential, who I genuinely think is less suited to this league.

As I and many others have said, Hojlund needs to not be our main striker. Just as much as Yoro isn't our main CB, or Garnacho isn't our main attacker, or Mainoo isn't our main CM just yet etc.

Maybe I'm just absolutely mad, but I still see enough in Hojlund that I want to see him starting some cup games, coming off the bench, filling in for injury etc. But we really should have had a 26+ year old or so striker leading the line for the last 18 months or more. There's so many other sales that need to happen and I don't think signing a new striker is necessarily a case of replacing Hojlund, it's to boost the quality of the squad in addition to Hojlund and giving him support/alleviating some pressure.

We'll see how things go, but if he fails to show progression throughout next season then I think it's more fair to question him, and he'd definitely be easier to sell then. Even more-so, Zirkzee would.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

The main thing to consider is whether the chance to develop him further for a year before contemplating an outright sale.

He cost us £62m (although I'd imagine some of that is add-on based) in 2023, on a 5-year contract. Close to £12.5m per year for the way financial rules work. There's always more to it than the simple maths, but he'll have used up two years at the end of this season meaning we can take off £25m of that tag. That means to break even on him, we would need to sell for £37m. Do we think any team will be paying that at the moment? He's reportedly on £85k a week, so I think it boils down to whether not having him on the books (and probably making a small-ish loss) on him is worth the risk of just trying to let him develop more for a year? For what it's worth, I think another year of development where he isn't asked to be the main striker, would probably see him perform better and mean we would only need to sell him for above £25m to not lose out.

Personally, I have less faith in Zirkzee being the kind of player we need for Amorim's style of play. He cost more like £35m on a 5-year contract, so we'd have to sell him for £28m~ to break even - he's also on £105k a week. To me, losing Zirkzee makes both more financial sense and removes a player with less potential, who I genuinely think is less suited to this league.

As I and many others have said, Hojlund needs to not be our main striker. Just as much as Yoro isn't our main CB, or Garnacho isn't our main attacker, or Mainoo isn't our main CM just yet etc.

Maybe I'm just absolutely mad, but I still see enough in Hojlund that I want to see him starting some cup games, coming off the bench, filling in for injury etc. But we really should have had a 26+ year old or so striker leading the line for the last 18 months or more. There's so many other sales that need to happen and I don't think signing a new striker is necessarily a case of replacing Hojlund, it's to boost the quality of the squad in addition to Hojlund and giving him support/alleviating some pressure.

We'll see how things go, but if he fails to show progression throughout next season then I think it's more fair to question him, and he'd definitely be easier to sell then. Even more-so, Zirkzee would.

I explained this in a previous page, but if we keep him, we are committing to another year of amortization, so you need to net that out when doing the breakeven analysis. The £25m figure, therefore, would be the relevant number this coming summer, not the next one.

And really, it would be even lower than that once you consider wages.

 

[ManRed]

Non-penalty goals per 90 for some recent PL strikers. Rates of returns the same or worse than Hojlund's in bold.

Hojlund (21 years old): 0.17, 0.42.
Watkins (29 years old): 0.45, 0.53, 0.40, 0.30, 0.35
Toney (28 years old): 0.25, 0.43, 0.22
Solanke (27 years old): 0.39, 0.46, 0.19, 0.40
Jesus (27 years old): 0.44, 0.24, 0.44,

Hojlund obviously shouldn't be our first choice striker, and we obviously paid too much for him, and you can make whatever arguments about him being worse in general play than X player.

But the reality is that there aren't that many oustanding strikers in the league. And Hojlund's rate of returns last year was in line with what the above B-tier strikers produce, with few scoring at a significantly better rate in recent years despite being significantly older.

He clearly shouldn't be our first choice CF. But now that he's here, I don't really see the upside in moving him on rather than backing him to develop into a striker who regularly scores at a similar B-tier rate to the above, which would also be useful to have in the squad and a good standard for a 2nd choice CF.

He has regressed quite a bit and if you actually see him play there is no confidence. He cant even hold up the ball and our attack just dies with him. He shouldn't be at the club.

 

[JJ12]

His xG this year is something like 2.35 - 118th in the prem.

Our main striker that is. We create feck all for him and he does absolutely nothing to help the issue.

 

[VP89]

His xG this year is something like 2.35 - 118th in the prem.

Our main striker that is. We create feck all for him and he does absolutely nothing to help the issue.

As Amorim pretty much said in nicer words his movement is also shit.

 

[JJ12]

As Amorim pretty much said in nicer words his movement is also shit.

I just can't understand why he still insists on wrestling with CB's. He's got the tools to be running channels and I actually thought his movement was decent at times last year.

Is he confused? Lack of confidence? Zero football brain?

 

[VP89]

I just can't understand why he still insists on wrestling with CB's. He's got the tools to be running channels and I actually thought his movement was decent at times last year.

Is he confused? Lack of confidence? Zero football brain?

He seems to be caught up doing one or the other - being focused on fending off the opposition or being focused on the ball. He can't do both together.

 

[lex talionis]

Exactly this. By definition, every single goal we score in and around the penalty box is a goal that could have been scored by Hojlund. Good strikers manufacture chances, they turn a poor cross into a good one, they force mistakes. I see loads of balls coming into the box just above head height - food and drink for a striker good in the air. People mock Nunez and Jackson, bloody hell their stats make mincemeat of Hojlunds!

There isn't one of us who wasn't desperate for Hojlund to succeed at Old Trafford, and nearly all of us knew it would take some time for him to find his feet before banging in the goals and creating chances for others. But Hojlund has had enough time and it really does look like he's not built for purpose at this level. As others have noted, he needed more time at a lower level before coming to OT and with his record of woe he needs to move on to a club where expectations are lower and he build a nice career.

With all due respect to club management and to Rasmus himself, this was another daft transfer.

 

[arthurka]

Nonsense. He's just shit

Yes he is but he is young and would have benefitted from a good role at a decent club with a decent structure. But he came to us.

 

[bgoodall]

I remember when Rooney and RVP would often drop back into the midfield to help create more but it seems our forwards aren’t doing that these days. If we had a heat map for Hojlund it would probably show we don’t move off the ball as much and Im not sure if it’s tactical or not.

 

[Highlyevolved]

He will make it here if there’s someone who can help him, expecting him to lead the line at 21 was ridiculous

Exactly. Not many 21 year olds can lead the line as a single striker at such a high pressure club. He’s got the raw talent, he needs developing. Keep him I say and bring in someone else with premiership experience.

 

[Highlyevolved]

Played centre half for us as well. My memory isn’t great but I don’t recall him being a flop??

Dublin was certainly no flop. Started off great, got goals, as you say he was flexible and helped the team. Unlucky with that injury, but it was the best thing he ever did for us, that’s why Fergie was able to go and buy a French fella from Leeds.

 

[BorisManUtd]

He will make it here if there’s someone who can help him, expecting him to lead the line at 21 was ridiculous

Agree with this. It's why I think it'd be ideal if we sign proven striker that's around 27 years old to lead the line over next years while Hojlund develops. Not sure there will be patience for that and club may be looking to sell while he's still got higher value but we'll see.

 

[Dans]

Agree with this. It's why I think it'd be ideal if we sign proven striker that's around 27 years old to lead the line over next years while Hojlund develops. Not sure there will be patience for that and club may be looking to sell while he's still got higher value but we'll see.

I think I have seen enough of Hojlund to suggest that waiting for him to develop would be a massive mistake. Apparently there is interest from Serie A, I'd snap off any of those hands.

 

[Tallis]

I fully believe he can turn his form around this season. All the analysis on his poor movement etc is being done when he is going through a bad patch.

I do worry that the media are honing on him like they have done on Rashford and will try to destroy his confidence. I

 

[Gordon'sHill]

I fully believe he can turn his form around this season. All the analysis on his poor movement etc is being done when he is going through a bad patch.

I do worry that the media are honing on him like they have done on Rashford and will try to destroy his confidence. I

Sorry, but a classic empty post. Everyone entitled to an opinion, but this is just vague hope over reality. He has shown nothing on a consistent basis to suggest he is a PL player let alone a United one. The odd short goal scoring patch cannot cover his lack of fundamental technique or awareness. The media have been soft on him for a long time given his failings. Its not their fault he is playing so badly. Feel sorry for the lad but its just another awful, awful Murtough signing.

 

[Judas]

I remember when Rooney and RVP would often drop back into the midfield to help create more but it seems our forwards aren’t doing that these days. If we had a heat map for Hojlund it would probably show we don’t move off the ball as much and Im not sure if it’s tactical or not.

Last thing I want from him right now honestly, I want the bloke in and around the box sniffing out chances and shooting. The lack of bodies we have in dangerous areas when we attack is criminal.

 

[antsmithmk]

I think I have seen enough of Hojlund to suggest that waiting for him to develop would be a massive mistake. Apparently there is interest from Serie A, I'd snap off any of those hands.

I agree. One a half seasons. I've not seen much at all to suggest he has the physical skills to succeed at United. And over the last 6 months I would say it's become clear he doesn't have the mentality to succeed at United.

 

[antsmithmk]

Last thing I want from him right now honestly, I want the bloke in and around the box sniffing out chances and shooting. The lack of bodies we have in dangerous areas when we attack is criminal.

Agreed. It's absurd to suggest he should be dropping back. He traps a ball further than I can pass. Last thing we want is him fecking up the build up play as well.

 

[Squeaky_Bum_Time]

How many people were saying last year that he doesn’t have any of the basics to be a good footballer which seems to be a common statement now?

 

[Big Ben Foster]

How many people were saying last year that he doesn’t have any of the basics to be a good footballer which seems to be a common statement now?

If by the basics you mean technical ability, there was plenty of concern in here last year about that, even when he was scoring goals.

 

[Squeaky_Bum_Time]

If by the basics you mean technical ability, there was plenty of concern in here last year about that, even when he was scoring goals.

Thanks. It wasn’t meant in a snide way or anything like that. I wasn’t on here last year and I don’t remember a lot of concern in the general fanbase.

It does feel like he’s regressed in some aspects which perhaps points to form and adaptation to the system being a large part of the problem right now, and that might be temporary?

I’m struggling to remember if he was this bad at hold up play last year. He’s never been amazing at it, but he’s been entirely useless at it the past few weeks

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Thanks. It wasn’t meant in a snide way or anything like that. I wasn’t on here last year and I don’t remember a lot of concern in the general fanbase.

It does feel like he’s regressed in some aspects which perhaps points to form and adaptation to the system being a large part of the problem right now, and that might be temporary?

I’m struggling to remember if he was this bad at hold up play last year. He’s never been amazing at it, but he’s been entirely useless at it the past few weeks

Yeah, definitely feels like he's regressed lately - I think his confidence is shot, which definitely doesn't help.

 

[Gandalf]

Yeah, definitely feels like he's regressed lately - I think his confidence is shot, which definitely doesn't help.

This certainly seems to be the case and he is also clearly in his head too much when he is playing, there is a lot more hesitancy to his play than there was 12 months ago and you can almost see him overthinking everything he is doing.

 

[Red in STL]

Yeah, definitely feels like he's regressed lately - I think his confidence is shot, which definitely doesn't help.

The whole team has regressed as well so it's not really surprising TBH

 

[2 man midfield]

He needs to be taken out of the firing line, as all young players need from time to time. Unfortunately, our brilliant foresight and squad planning means he came in at 19 as the only striker at the club, and nothing has changed 2 years on.

 

[Adebisi's Hat]

He needs to be taken out of the firing line, as all young players need from time to time. Unfortunately, our brilliant foresight and squad planning means he came in at 19 as the only striker at the club, and nothing has changed 2 years on.

agreed, was midway typing much the same before you beat me too it. At any EPL team let alone Utd it was a big ask to lead the line, i like the lad and see potential but he needs game time managed carefully but we just dont have the options. Its a pity there was not an experienced Cavani type striker we could not pick up to rotate in to give the lad breathing space.

 

[Tallis]

Sorry, but a classic empty post. Everyone entitled to an opinion, but this is just vague hope over reality. He has shown nothing on a consistent basis to suggest he is a PL player let alone a United one. The odd short goal scoring patch cannot cover his lack of fundamental technique or awareness. The media have been soft on him for a long time given his failings. It’s not their fault he is playing so badly. Feel sorry for the lad but it’s just another awful, awful Murtough

Media has been soft on him ? They were hammering him even before he had played a game by comparing his price tag to Haaland even though it was perfectly clear that Haaland had a lower transfer fee because of his buyout clause and the real differential in the price tag was in the contact and wages.

Similar posts were made about Amad - there are plenty of posters just too eager to write off our players. “Lack of fundamental technique and awareness” - laughable assertion.

 

[Hammondo]

Non-penalty goals per 90 for some recent PL strikers. Rates of returns the same or worse than Hojlund's in bold.

Hojlund (21 years old): 0.17, 0.42.
Watkins (29 years old): 0.45, 0.53, 0.40, 0.30, 0.35
Toney (28 years old): 0.25, 0.43, 0.22
Solanke (27 years old): 0.39, 0.46, 0.19, 0.40
Jesus (27 years old): 0.44, 0.24, 0.44,

Hojlund obviously shouldn't be our first choice striker, and we obviously paid too much for him, and you can make whatever arguments about him being worse in general play than X player.

But the reality is that there aren't that many oustanding strikers in the league. And Hojlund's rate of returns last year was in line with what the above B-tier strikers produce, with few scoring at a significantly better rate in recent years despite being significantly older.

He clearly shouldn't be our first choice CF. But now that he's here, I don't really see the upside in moving him on rather than backing him to develop into a striker who regularly scores at a similar B-tier rate to the above, which would also be useful to have in the squad and a good standard for a 2nd choice CF.

Well if we caveman our understanding of a striker to goals per 90, sure.