Rasmus Hojlund (Out)

Ayoba said:
Kane scored 21 goals in the league for spurs

Isak scored 17 goals in la liga for Soceidad.

Osimen scored 13 goals in Ligue 1 for Lille

Gyokeres scored 7 in Bundesliga 2 for St Pauli.

Hojilund as 2 goals so far.
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Højlund scored more last season.
Kane is on another level to all of the mentioned names.
Ligue 1 and Bundesliga 2 are significantly lower level leagues, especially the latter.

Højlund isnt good enough, but these comparrisons are silly and add nothing to the conversation.
He might come good if he gets away from United, he might never get better.

He is currently no way near the level we need and should be moved on.
 
Lyng said:
Højlund scored more last season.
Kane is on another level to all of the mentioned names.
Ligue 1 and Bundesliga 2 are significantly lower level leagues, especially the latter.

Højlund isnt good enough, but these comparrisons are silly and add nothing to the conversation.
He might come good if he gets away from United, he might never get better.

He is currently no way near the level we need and should be moved on.
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I was responding to a poster above me who asked the question.
 
Regardless of stats, the eye test for Hojlund fails him.

I have been saying this for a few weeks now that he a big part of the reason we have no control over games.

Every time we play the ball into him, he gives it away, so we cannot build out the back. So the opponent wins the ball back on the half way line and starts an attack.

Really frustrating watching him give the ball away everytime he gets it.

Worst Untied CF ever.
 
No1_Dave said:
Out of those stats (if they're accurate), Kane's is the most impressive, as he's playing in the most competitive league,
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That was the PL of 14/15, quite far from a top league and not better than La Liga of 20/21, but no matter

Kane was/is one of the best strikers of the last 30 years

Rather comparing Hojlund to Isak for example offers more promise about his future potential. Isak was a bust at Dortmund, moved to Real Sociedad were he was promising(and pretty decent) in his first season, great in the second, than then had a down year in his third, before signing for Newcastle for a price that at the time looked like a huge gamble. Though it must be said that Isak always offered a lot to his team outside of goals, he was a very complete forward and the closest thing to Benzema from a technical viewpoint

Hojlund was a 20 year old coming off 6 good months with a team and manager who've spent the last decade making forwards(and wingbacks) look like beasts, with very clear holes in his game he'd need to improve to become more than a 6 months wonder at Atalanta. He was a project of a top striker and it never made any sense that United signed him back then, for that money, to immediately ask him to lead the line

Add to that the fact most of his success in Italy was owed, besides a team that basically always makes forwards successfull, to having a significant physical advantage over most defenders

The worrying thing is that, after showing some positive signs in the second half of last season, he looks to be regressing now
 
Realistically, Hojlunds got two options. Remain at the club but double his efforts with intensive training in the hope that he significantly improves or we simply remove him from the squad and put him in the reserves with a view of selling him in the summer.
 
FlawlessVictory88 said:
I'm sure the plan is to sell him to then use that money to fund a replacement.

He's simply not good enough and needs to be sold.
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He’s 20. He should never have been signed as our starting first choice #9. He is a prospect for the future, who needed an experienced striker with him to learn from and cover for a few years but he needs careful handling and development. All we are doing currently is running him down and breaking him.
 
AngeloHenriquez said:
This just proves Hojlund moved to early, he needed another year or two at Atalanta.
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Yep. Lone striker is the hardest position to play, especially for a youngster still learning the game. I'm not sure how much sense it makes to target 'potential' for playing upfront. I think a club like United will always need a reliable, proven goalscorer rather than a punt leading the line.

It's not surprising that in 27 years, striker and goalkeeper are the only positions where Fergie never brought someone through from the academy (with the minor exception of Welbeck).
 
RopersReturn said:
Remain at the club but double his efforts with intensive training in the hope that he significantly improves
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He is already reportedly doing extra sessions after team training and working hard to improve. I don’t think this is on the lad himself. He is unfortunately a hostage of the situation at the club.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
Yep. Lone striker is the hardest position to play, especially for a youngster still learning the game. I'm not sure how much sense it makes to target 'potential' for playing upfront. I think a club like United will always need a reliable, proven goalscorer rather than a punt leading the line.
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Agreed unless we had an established striker and we bought Hojlund to get the odd 10/ 20 minutes at the end of games to learn without pressure
 
giorno said:
That was the PL of 14/15, quite far from a top league and not better than La Liga of 20/21, but no matter

Kane was/is one of the best strikers of the last 30 years

Rather comparing Hojlund to Isak for example offers more promise about his future potential. Isak was a bust at Dortmund, moved to Real Sociedad were he was promising(and pretty decent) in his first season, great in the second, than then had a down year in his third, before signing for Newcastle for a price that at the time looked like a huge gamble. Though it must be said that Isak always offered a lot to his team outside of goals, he was a very complete forward and the closest thing to Benzema from a technical viewpoint

Hojlund was a 20 year old coming off 6 good months with a team and manager who've spent the last decade making forwards(and wingbacks) look like beasts, with very clear holes in his game he'd need to improve to become more than a 6 months wonder at Atalanta. He was a project of a top striker and it never made any sense that United signed him back then, for that money, to immediately ask him to lead the line

Add to that the fact most of his success in Italy was owed, besides a team that basically always makes forwards successfull, to having a significant physical advantage over most defenders

The worrying thing is that, after showing some positive signs in the second half of last season, he looks to be regressing now
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This was the thing with Isak. From the moment I was put on to him, there were flashes of absolute brilliance just waiting to be harnessed and rounded out. That’s the kind of talent baseline I want to see in a young, non-prodigious striker - something you can nurture and build around whilst hoping the rest of his game develops.
 
AngeloHenriquez said:
Agreed unless we had an established striker and we bought Hojlund to get the odd 10/ 20 minutes at the end of games to learn without pressure
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Even so not for what we paid and not with the expectation he'll ever be the main man.
The main man in a United side has to have it all. He's never going to have the technical level of prime Van Persie, Kane, Lewandoski or Benzema. And without that he'll always be limited and hold us back.
I watched Isak at Socieded and even when he wasn't bagging the goals you could see the potential, it was more about putting it together but with Hojlund it would be a miracle if he can make the technical jump.
 
Plant0x84 said:
He’s 20. He should never have been signed as our starting first choice #9. He is a prospect for the future, who needed an experienced striker with him to learn from and cover for a few years but he needs careful handling and development. All we are doing currently is running him down and breaking him.
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He'll be 22 next week. The best way to learn is for him to play and that shouldn't happen at United when he's at least a few years away from being good enough for a top 8 PL team.
 
I very much doubt it happens this window now, summer potentially but I would rather keep him and let him develop some more behind a more established striker (whoever that may be), what's the point in selling low?
 
Idxomer said:
He'll be 22 next week. The best way to learn is for him to play and that shouldn't happen at United when he's at least a few years away from being good enough for a top 8 PL team.
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Ha I wasn’t sure if he was 20 or 21. It was a 50/50 shot ;)

Point still stands though. The original plan was someone like Kane with Hojlund as cheap back up/prospect. That was a solid plan - blowing the striker budget on a kid and not signing experience to help him instead was classic bad United.
 
Plant0x84 said:
Ha I wasn’t sure if he was 20 or 21. It was a 50/50 shot ;)

Point still stands though. The original plan was someone like Kane with Hojlund as cheap back up/prospect. That was a solid plan - blowing the striker budget on a kid and not signing experience to help him instead was classic bad United.
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I can't think of a young striker who joined a top club to learn from an experienced striker and in a few years displaced them. They are either good enough to start and develop while playing or join a less demanding league to develop in a less pressured environment.
 
Rozay said:
Your optimism of him seems to be based more on some sort of algorithm than anything tangible. Just cliché’s like ‘you can’t write a player off at 22’, or ‘how many goals dis Ruud van Nistelrooy score by 22?’ There’s very little defence related to Hojlund’s actual talent, just some lines you could post without even ever having watched him, so long as you knew his age.

Why do you think academy players get released, despite being too young to literally see whether or not they will become top players by 25? Being young is not a skill. It’s not a reflection of talent. Footballers don’t just become world class players by getting older.
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Fair comment, but I also think a lot of people's argument in this thread is entirely just the opposite with no real substance, just "he's shit".

What I see is a player with the attributes to be the kind of centre forward we'd usually want at United. He's got pace, power, and can strike a ball well. But what I also see is an inconsistent young player in a team that has been inconsistent for years, and has now seen massive changes all over the club. I think every player other than Amad has probably regressed slightly in this season, even Mainoo and Garnacho who were the most promising players we've seen in ages, but Amad is a player who was fortunate enough to have his development outside of this environment from ages 19-21 or so.

Hojlund is a player who I saw as progressing year on year, now in an environment that he shouldn't have to be in realistically. Of course, he is in it, and while too much is being asked of him, I don't disagree that I think he should be doing better. But I also don't blame him for having a bit of a set-back season right now. Some comparisons from players like Jhon Duran who is in a team that is much more settled, and has scored 38 goals in 159 appearances compared to Hojlund's 50 in 158 seem a bit ludicrous to me. I bet most people would swap them, and maybe Duran is a better player, but I just think it's short sighted and more of a recency bias kind of thing. Most of the other forwards being touted as the biggest talents age 21~ are doing it in teams that are close to the top of their leagues, dominating a lot of games, having the right players around them etc. I think Hojlund would thrive in a team that plays on the front foot, gets balls in the box and allows him to stay closer to the opposition box. I'm hopeful that once we are more settled in this system and have better wing backs, we could see him thriving and not needing to drop deep as much as he is. I am not sure if his game is ever going to be strong link-up play, so if this is something Amorim needs massively then it might be the better decision to eventually move him on. However, I think we need a more experienced striker regardless, I just don't necessarily see it as Hojlund has to be sold to get this. Enough of the Football Manager mentality.

Maybe a loan would be good for Hojlund, but he's not had the chance to do that, just has to learn on the job. Fingers crossed all of this makes him a better player next season, and if he doesn't progress to scoring 20 goals in all comps next season (even if we sign another forward to start more often) then I'll eat my words. But I very much do not see a need to cut our losses on him as early as this week or the Summer.
 
He needs to be loaned to a team in a physically demanding but less proficient league. The championship would be perfect.
 
No chance we should be selling yet. He’s still young and while his current form has been really poor he’s shown he can take chances. I could still see him developing into a very good striker. However we do need a new starting striker to ease the pressure. If we are set on his departure I’d rather a loan for him to build his confidence and value.
 
Definitely don't think he should be sold, he's value is probably at his lowest and he's not as bad as he is right now.

He definitely shouldn't be starting for us, needs some time out of the limelight. Ideally we'd see him go out on loan in the summer while we get an established striker (Gyokeres) while having Zikrzee be the second option. There's a player there, his performances in Europe alone showed that.
 
I doubt he'll be sold because I'm unconvinced we'd receive enough to cover his book value and we won't be taking a loss. I could see him going out on loan to Serie A/Bundesliga, with someone like Gyokeres being signed.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
No chance we should be selling yet. He’s still young and while his current form has been really poor he’s shown he can take chances. I could still see him developing into a very good striker. However we do need a new starting striker to ease the pressure. If we are set on his departure I’d rather a loan for him to build his confidence and value.
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When people say this, what does this mean specifically?

Does that mean you think he could hit the heights of Cantona, Yorke, Cole, RVN, Saha, Rooney, Tevez or RVP? Those are the best strikers we had when challenging for league titles.

I'm not sure Hojlund could ever reach Lukaku's level that he showed for us during his 1st season and Lukaku wasn't good enough either.

Like, his baseline talent level just isn't high. Martial was a much better player than Hojlund too during his 2019-2020 season and I ideally wouldn't have Martial start for a league challenging side either.
 
I do really like Hojlund and really wouldn't be surprised if he does well somewhere else.

I love that we are starting to be a bit more ruthless though and selling players while they still have some value rather than waiting until they are worthless. Selling Rasmus, Rashford, Zirkzee and Anthony to replace them with Gyokores and another attacker (Oshimen, Cunha, Delap, David, Openda, Sesko etc).

For the first time in ages it feels like there are actually quite a few options, so we really need to make the most of it and grab a couple.
 
Uncle Mainoo said:
Send him to WBA. The Championship will fix him up and there a big enough club where they expect a certain level of performance
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The Championship is the furthest away from the EPL than ever before. It wont do him any good going there.
 
Lay said:
The Championship is the furthest away from the EPL than ever before. It wont do him any good going there.
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Do explain it seems to be the most transferable league next to Ligue 1 and the Portuguese league for the last 5 years.

Only from looking at it from a distance I don’t see any drop in quality. But as I said I’m looking from a distance.
 
Uncle Mainoo said:
Do explain it seems to be the most transferable league next to Ligue 1 and the Portuguese league for the last 5 years.

Only from looking at it from a distance I don’t see any drop in quality. But as I said I’m looking from a distance.
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Teams that come up just can't hang with the EPL teams anymore. All 3 teams went down last season and probably will be the same this season. The gap between the two leagues is widening every season.

Only needed 27 points to survive last season, I can't see one of the promoted sides getting much better this season.

The top scorer in the league this season scored 3 goals in the Spanish second division and played for a relegated Turkish team where he scored 9 goals a couple of seasons ago
 
bringbackbebe said:
All of the above are much older than Hojlund and are in a much more functional team. For reference, Gyokeres at 21 was in Swansea on loan and scored 1 goal in 12 games in the Championship. Comparing strikers at their prime with a much younger potential is not an apt comparison, particularly when the team is at a state that can make prime Messi look like Obertan. How many 21 year old strikers are as good as Rasmus potential wise? I'd bet not many.
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I've said before that those comparisons were no fair, because mostly are done with Monday's newspaper and comparing him with former great to legendary players at 21. Also many of them with entire different styles to Rasmus, capable of doing more stuff by themselves without the help of the team (even if every player needs that of course).

Yet at the same time, the sort of in many ways praise involved in your phrase, won't help either. If it was said in an historical sense like the examples mentioned, he is nowehere near many of those names. If it's said in terms of right now, potential doesn't mean showing very little at the moment, that phrase would have worked better last season.

In many ways also since it's a role that in these last years have been many times left aside for more polivalent, all around forwards, second strikers/mediapuntas/false 9's. The tendency for producing such specific role players declined, so this created an scenario where he could even shine more given there is less competition for it (it happens even with Erling too). In many ways it's one of the main reasons why even United still plays him quite a lot, that lack of more competition for that role in his very own team.

All in all, the timing is awful for him for many reasons and the anxiety it's eating him alive and under the spotlight. Yet like happens too many times in football, sometimes just a couple of even fluke goals, the team actually being better, gaining confidence again and stuff changes all of a sudden, more in his role. Yet he has to do it fair or not, because if not he'll loose the train in this sort of madness United is immerse since time.
 
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giorno said:
Hojlund was a 20 year old coming off 6 good months with a team and manager who've spent the last decade making forwards(and wingbacks) look like beasts, with very clear holes in his game he'd need to improve to become more than a 6 months wonder at Atalanta. He was a project of a top striker and it never made any sense that United signed him back then, for that money, to immediately ask him to lead the line

Add to that the fact most of his success in Italy was owed, besides a team that basically always makes forwards successfull, to having a significant physical advantage over most defenders

The worrying thing is that, after showing some positive signs in the second half of last season, he looks to be regressing now
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As simple as that.

It's not fair at the same time if we throw a comparison with someone like Agüero at the same age, or even younger, since we already know how Kun's carreer developed and from the start he was quite a different type of player, not just a classic striker/goaslcorer like many of the great players mentioned before.
 
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Lay said:
Teams that come up just can't hang with the EPL teams anymore. All 3 teams went down last season and probably will be the same this season. The gap between the two leagues is widening every season.

Only needed 27 points to survive last season, I can't see one of the promoted sides getting much better this season.

The top scorer in the league this season scored 3 goals in the Spanish second division and played for a relegated Turkish team where he scored 9 goals a couple of seasons ago
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You could say that’s down to the lesser teams in the prem getting stronger. Normally a Bournemouth, Brentford will find themselves in a relegation battle after surviving.

I wouldn’t pay attention to the top scorers it’s still a development league. Players go there improve and hopefully the best players move on to better things.
 
Fobal said:
As simple as that.

It's not fair at the same time if we throw a comparison with someone like Agüero at the same age, or even younger, since we already know how Kun's carreer developed and from the start he was quite a diffrent type of player, nit just a classic striker/goaslcorer like many of the mentioned great players mentioned before.
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I don’t get the Aguero reference. He was scoring basically a goal a game at 16. He is the epitome of an elite youngster which is the type of players we should be signing. Players like Hojlund we should allow to fulfil their potential and not fast track there progress. The club neither the player benefits.
 
The problem with Hojlund is that he lacks the fundamentals. First touch, passing, hold up play, aerial threat (for his size) are all lacking. He spends half the time backing into defenders because he doesn't trust his own technical ability. He is gassed out by 70 minutes because he doesn't conserve energy wisely

People talk about him not getting service. Most goals are created from movements. He seems incapable of making clever runs behind defenders or near post. Everything he does is predictable hence he doesn't get many chances. Granted that United need more creative technical players in the midfield area and that may limit some chances but his record is shocking

People in general love to waffle about age. As if it's a variable that guarantees improvement. You could get older and double down on your stupidity. The human race has been around for some time now and they fight over silly resources and dislike people for daring to have more melanin than they do.

Safe to say that Hojlund is not guaranteed to improve with age. Secondly, he is a grown adult playing at the highest level. If you can't get it together now, when will you?

I think it is time he gets moved on
 
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