Rasmus Højlund | Signed for United

[Crimson King]

Ok… the point was that 30m strikers are out there. Not that Jackson is better.

Of course 30m strikers are out there, doesn't mean they're good enough to play for United.

I'd rather sign a player that could turn out to be much better than Jackson for more than 30m, than just sign players for that amount so we can say 'look at how clever we are signing all these bargains'.

 

[jeepers]

Not as excited as when we signed Martial, but finally we have a striker. All the best to him!

 

[OrcaFat]

You can assess a players value today and that's not fluid

Okay, I didn’t notice you said “today”, fair enough.

Value is not fluid at a precise given moment but it is a complex concept and assessment is not easy. As well as looking at past performance, a valuation must include consideration of what will happen in future. By that I don’t mean what will happen to the player’s value in future, I mean, simply, what will be his output and contribution to the club’s success. Like any investment, expected future return (dividend) is inherently part of the present value.

We are currently valuing him at the purchase price. We might have got it wrong but it’s impossible to know it now and certainly will be easier when he’s played a few games for us.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Of course 30m strikers are out there, doesn't mean they're good enough to play for United.

I'd rather sign a player that could turn out to be much better than Jackson for more than 30m, than just sign players for that amount so we can say 'look at how clever we are signing all these bargains'.

Ok, but surely by the same token, you’re also not sure if Højlund is actually better than Jackson…?

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Not as excited as when we signed Martial, but finally we have a striker. All the best to him!

If his first season is as good as Martial’s I’ll be very happy.

 

[mu4c_20le]

For Atalanta? Who really cares?

Could've saved 50m if we spotted him a year ago. Point is, sub 30m prospects are out there if we need a punt. This is a big gamble, we are expecting him to exceed the likes of Nunez and Vlahovic.

 

[El-Manos]

How can you spend a year watching Martial (when fit) & WW but moan at signing a promising young striker ?!
Fiorentina probably played you for 10m more than his value but nothing scandalous.

fiorentina?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Ok, but surely by the same token, you’re also not sure if Højlund is actually better than Jackson…?

I’m not sure Jackson is better than Justin Kluivert either, despite costing more than 3 times more and being granted an 8 year deal.

 

[Lemoor]

No it doesn't but you have to weigh up players by their attributes with and without the ball as well and how they fit into the tactical plan of the coach. I watched Van Persie and Benzema at Feyenoord and Lyon and it was easy to see that they had the attributes to improve further. Van Persie was playing out wide as well in the games I watched in the Eredivisie.

And like I've said in previous years, the problem isn't that we overpaid for players but rather we over-paid for players who didn't fit into a proactive attacking play style. And hence I was very vocal in my criticism of Wan Bissaka and Maguire after the manager at the time had made comments about wanting to implement a high line.

All the big clubs overpay for certain players but it's important that if you're going to overpay then the player must fit the profile of striker that the strategy demands. And this lad does fit the profile but will require patience.

That's entirely fair. I just hope that he doesn't get the usual treatment our players get when there is big fee involved and they are not immidiately among best players in the league, when it's obvious that it was never a realistic expectation.

 

[Cassidy]

No it doesn't but you have to weigh up players by their attributes with and without the ball as well and how they fit into the tactical plan of the coach. I watched Van Persie and Benzema at Feyenoord and Lyon and it was easy to see that they had the attributes to improve further. Van Persie was playing out wide as well in the games I watched in the Eredivisie.

And like I've said in previous years, the problem isn't that we overpaid for players but rather we over-paid for players who didn't fit into a proactive attacking play style. And hence I was very vocal in my criticism of Wan Bissaka and Maguire after the manager at the time had made comments about wanting to implement a high line.

All the big clubs overpay for certain players but it's important that if you're going to overpay then the player must fit the profile of striker that the strategy demands. And this lad does fit the profile but will require patience.

Like Antony?

 

[Kingslayer18]

Real Madrid bought a 16 year old Endrick for €70m (add-ons included) and they are praised for it.

We buy a 20 year old Højlund for €70m and the same people just cant resist the urge of whining endlessly because we could potentially have negotiated it down by €6m if we had spent another month on the deal.

Endrik is considered a generational talent, Hojlund is not. Can't compare the two. A better comparison would be the fee Madrid paid for Luka Jovic, even then he had a greater body of work than Hojlund. We definitely overpaid, look at PSG first and final offer of 50m. That should've been the benchmark of even the fee Chelsea paid for Nicolas Jackson but again we went above our own internal valuation of the player. Teams will continue to push us to overpay on transfers, because we give in eventually all the time.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

His touch looks way better than Ras’ to me, and he is objectively more versatile given that he can be deployed as a genuine wide player and do a proper job there.

Unless Ras can also do this?

Couldn’t disagree more on the touch and Höjlund looks much more suited to several systems, especially possession based ones, just with his far superior strength and hold up play.
Isak flop in Germany, and with the national team have always given me the feel he’s too one dimensional.

Either way, it’s two promising young forwards that hadn’t pulled up trees the previous season, going for similar amounts.

 

[Cassidy]

Okay, I didn’t notice you said “today”, fair enough.

Value is not fluid at a precise given moment but it is a complex concept and assessment is not easy. As well as looking at past performance, a valuation must include consideration of what will happen in future. By that I don’t mean what will happen to the player’s value in future, I mean, simply, what will be his output and contribution to the club’s success. Like any investment, expected future return (dividend) is inherently part of the present value.

We are currently valuing him at the purchase price. We might have got it wrong but it’s impossible to know it now and certainly will be easier when he’s played a few games for us.

There isn't much to suggest he's worth the fee, its a massive gamble and the risk in the purchase has to be reflected in the fee (it isn't here)

 

[Adnan]

I'm sure there's an even longer list of players who posted similar numbers and ended up in the lower leagues on or benches.

No you're right but I'd rather spend the money on a up and coming striker like a Hojlund, Ferguson or Sesko than do what we previously did and put all our eggs into signing one individual player who will be costly both in a transfer fee and huge wages.

For me the key thing that needs to occur for us to take the next step, is for us to raise the defensive line higher so we can commit more players forward. And for that to occur we need the players occupying positions in the defensive third to raise the technical level of the team. Onana should help in that regard and Mount should also help in the middle third and also out of possession but we do need to sign someone like a Amrabat or a Locatelli to raise the technical level in the deeper build up further.

And if we can do the above and can evade the first lines of pressure we will create chances with a high volume of players committed into the final third with Hojlund's box movement potentially being a huge threat, as well as having the ability to play in transition with the likes of Onana, Martinez, Shaw and Ambrabat finding the likes of Rashford and Hojlund to run in behind defences to exploit the space.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Endrik is considered a generational talent, Hojlund is not. Can't compare the two. A better comparison would be the fee Madrid paid for Luka Jovic, even then he had a greater body of work than Hojlund. We definitely overpaid, look at PSG first and final offer of 50m. That should've been the benchmark of even the fee Chelsea paid for Nicolas Jackson but again we went above our own internal valuation of the player. Teams will continue to push us to overpay on transfers, because we give in eventually all the time.

PSG got flat out refused so how the funk you working this out?

Why did Newcastle pay a similar fee for Isak?

Jovic went to Madrid for 60m euros.

Jackson had a low release clause and doesn’t look close to the same potential of any of the other players mentioned.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Indeed. What you described is how I view football chat, you agree / disagree and give and react to other people’s takes.

If players are being personally insulted for bad performances and there’s a nasty / toxic vibe to what’s being said, that’s a bit much for me, but other than that, it’s just chatting shit.

The serious stuff in life is family, health, maybe career etc.

I think @simonhch should just focus on the fact that he is buzzing about a new Utd signing! It’s all good.

Yep, it's all good.

 

[TrueRed79]

All players are immediately divisive on the Caf, because the Caf always has that vocal element that are ready to have a moan about literally anything. There isn’t a single transfer in the last decade that didn’t come with a fair share of doomsayers. The list of what people get wound up about and the red flags they find is as interminable as it is often contradictory. And of course when someone complains about everything, they are going to sometimes be right; which just reinforces the self aggrandising rhetoric and deepens the nihilistic malaise.

The amount of premature ejaculation that will occur on here this season after a missed Hojlund chance or a poor Mount performance, is going to be almost as revolting as the inevitable “I told you so”s. Never mind the deafening silence after a good performance, because the resident quim burgers always have another target to move on to.

Let us never forget that this is the place that gave us the now infamous “Rashford, new contract or sell” thread, in which an unhealthy amount of posters insisted we should release him on a free due to his overwhelming and incurable shiteness. Those of us who pointed out the utter madness of this suggestion were mocked and vilified for extolling values such as patience and reason, because as Mark Twain said; “Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience.”

So no, the divisiveness of a signing is not indicative of anything to do with the quality of a signing. It’s just a by product of the enormous amounts of mouth frothing, knee jerking, miserable stupidity regularly on display here. I genuinely believe that there is a sizeable portion of this forum that actually want to see Hojlund fail so they think they can look good by predicting we overpaid. Of course they won’t look good, ever. Not now in moaning about the fee, or later doing their tribalistic “I knew better” song and dance. In both instances they will look like the embittered, toxic, hate-fans that they really are.

Exactly the same way i see it. Thank you.

 

[Cassidy]

PSG got flat out refused so how the funk you working this out?

Why did Newcastle pay a similar fee for Isak?

Maybe because he was one of the top scorers in la liga in 20/21 (e.g he showed pedigree to be a top scorer in a top league)

 

[Doracle]

Fair point and actually one of the few relevant transfers in comparison.

I would say Isak did look both more versatile and a technically better player from what I’ve seen of Ras thus far.

But it is a comparable transfer regarding fee and the player’s numbers.

Rutter to Leeds is a better comparison in terms of pure numbers. Near identical figures in Germany to Hojlund in Italy in his last full season before signing for Leeds aged 20.

Edit - obviously the big difference for Isak was that he’d had one major breakout season beforehand. Edit 2 - and they still paid £10m less!

 

[Adnan]

Like Antony?

Antony fits into the play style but that play style hasn't come to fruition and isn't even understood or discussed by many.

 

[Crimson King]

That's entirely fair. I just hope that he doesn't get the usual treatment our players get when there is big fee involved and they are not immidiately among best players in the league, when it's obvious that it was never a realistic expectation.

Of course that's the treatment he's going to get. Most of the abuse will come from his own fans, just look at what's happened with Antony and Sancho.

This place will be a nightmare if he doesn't score a hat trick on his debut.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Maybe because he was one of the top scorers in la liga in 20/21 (e.g he showed pedigree to be a top scorer in a top league)

He then revered to type the following season and scored 6, showing that his one decent career scoring season was likely a one off.
That same top season he actually finished behind Youssef En-Nesyri, who no-one in their right mind would spend 60m on. Another player who has since proven 20-21 a one-off.

 

[Cassidy]

Antony fits into the play style but that play style hasn't come to fruition and isn't even understood or discussed by many.

We still massively overpaid and play style or not, there is not guarantee he will hit the heights of a player which commands said fee

 

[Cassidy]

He then revered to type the following season and scored 6, showing that his one decent career scoring season was likely a one off.

Still showed his potential, I think Newcastle overpaid, he scored 10 goals in all comps last season. Still he showed more than Hojlund

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Couldn’t disagree more on the touch and Höjlund looks much more suited to several systems, especially possession based ones, just with his far superior strength and hold up play.
Isak flop in Germany, and with the national team have always given me the feel he’s too one dimensional.

Either way, it’s two promising young forwards that hadn’t pulled up trees the previous season, going for similar amounts.

Feels like you’re being purposely oppositional and / or incredibly harsh on Isak’s skill set shown before his PL move.

Isak’s fairly obviously a more versatile player, positionally, than Højlund and quite clearly has a far better natural first touch.



Think we’ll have to agree to disagree mate.

Hopefully he has a debut season like Isak though!

 

[TrueRed79]

He really hasn’t.

He’s ranting zealously about hypothetical situations and accusing people of frothing at the mouth for something that hasn’t even happened.

The only thing that’s nailed is you - being hammered on Spar shop alcopops.

Go to bed, heap.

I would hope the irony isn't lost on anyone with half a brain around here.

 

[Tarrou]

the internet just seems to have made a lot of people overly negative for some reason

you just see it everywhere nowadays, the caf is no different.. and lets be honest, United have given us a lot to whinge about this past 10 days

still though, if I felt that was happening to me I'd wanna make an adjustment because that negative energy permeates throughout your entire life

if you can't even enjoy it when your team buys an exciting young striker, whats the fecking point

 

[Berbasbullet]

All players are immediately divisive on the Caf, because the Caf always has that vocal element that are ready to have a moan about literally anything. There isn’t a single transfer in the last decade that didn’t come with a fair share of doomsayers. The list of what people get wound up about and the red flags they find is as interminable as it is often contradictory. And of course when someone complains about everything, they are going to sometimes be right; which just reinforces the self aggrandising rhetoric and deepens the nihilistic malaise.

The amount of premature ejaculation that will occur on here this season after a missed Hojlund chance or a poor Mount performance, is going to be almost as revolting as the inevitable “I told you so”s. Never mind the deafening silence after a good performance, because the resident quim burgers always have another target to move on to.

Let us never forget that this is the place that gave us the now infamous “Rashford, new contract or sell” thread, in which an unhealthy amount of posters insisted we should release him on a free due to his overwhelming and incurable shiteness. Those of us who pointed out the utter madness of this suggestion were mocked and vilified for extolling values such as patience and reason, because as Mark Twain said; “Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience.”

So no, the divisiveness of a signing is not indicative of anything to do with the quality of a signing. It’s just a by product of the enormous amounts of mouth frothing, knee jerking, miserable stupidity regularly on display here. I genuinely believe that there is a sizeable portion of this forum that actually want to see Hojlund fail so they think they can look good by predicting we overpaid. Of course they won’t look good, ever. Not now in moaning about the fee, or later doing their tribalistic “I knew better” song and dance. In both instances they will look like the embittered, toxic, hate-fans that they really are.

Quoted so others can see this.

 

[Remember the geese]

Add his wages, bonuses, agent fee and dealing with Dan Levy as well rat bastard

Based on what I've read and heard in press conferences, Jamie Jackson is a bit uncouth. Not sure if it's natural or a move to engineer more clicks, but it makes me doubt his credibility. Especially when subtitlty and precision is required.

 

[Adnan]

We still massively overpaid and play style or not, there is not guarantee he will hit the heights of a player which commands said fee

We did but that's down to the Glazers and a changing of the guard when it came to several positions in the football structure post Woodward. The structure was a mess at the time and there's some stability now imo.

 

[YikesSchmeics]

That’s an absolutely insane fee.

Is it? In

Don’t really care about the fee, care about getting the player. This is a HUGE signing for us. It’s not just about the goal threat, which is still developing, it’s about what he does for our team tactically. He runs the channel, he holds the ball up at an elite level already, as is his pressing also elite. In two years this kid will be a 100m player easily, I’d put a wager on that.

He’s going to create space for others, help us play the high pressing game we want, bring others into play, and he’ll chip in with approximately 10-15 more goals than Weghorst managed. But this isn’t a signing just for this season, this is a signing for the next 7-10 years. He’s only 20. This excites me a lot. So much better than the stream of mid thirty year olds we’ve been subjected to over the last decade.

We also now have a plan A (Hojlund) and a plan B (Martial) who are completely different from one another. This signing is a game changer for us. So glad we went for him instead of a 30 year old Kane (as good as he is). We’ve signed a player who can lead the line for a decade and grow into a world class striker in our shirt.

Patience will be required. But this is fantastic.

Agree with this. And most of what you have mentioned here goes beyond the stat sheet which I think is what most of those who are unconvinced will have looked at.

It's about how the pieces fit. I think his goal impact may take a few years to be elite but a lot of his strengths make us much better immediately as he will help those around him to be in the game more and be more effective with their out ball.

 

[croadyman]

Exciting signing I just wish we had a striker in place that could take a bit of pressure off him, he’s going to be expected to score a lot of goals

Yeah we need that and Amrabat to end the window,still have doubts we sell Maguire so think a backup CB is pushed back to January

 

[JB7]

the internet just seems to have made a lot of people overly negative for some reason

you just see it everywhere nowadays, the caf is no different.. and lets be honest, United have given us a lot to whinge about this past 10 days

still though, if I felt that was happening to me I'd wanna make an adjustment because that negative energy permeates throughout your entire life

if you can't even enjoy it when your team buys an exciting young striker, whats the fecking point

Have they?

 

[Cassidy]

We did but that's down to the Glazers and a changing of the guard when it came to several positions in the football structure post Woodward. The structure was a mess at the time and there's some stability now imo.

Whats the excuse this summer for overpaying here then when there is stability now?
In reality, we overpay a lot because we have poor negotiators and a DOF who does not have exceptional relationships with deal makers around Europe.
We also overpaid for Mount by the way, but I won't even get into that one.

 

[jeepers]

If his first season is as good as Martial’s I’ll be very happy.

I remember watching Martial play against Arsenal for Monaco and thought he would absolutely smash it here. Then that debut goal against Liverpool gave me goosebumps. Oh well.

I’m trying not to have any expectations this time around.

Best of luck to Rasmus, he will need it.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

I remember watching Martial play against Arsenal for Monaco and thought he would absolutely smash it here. Then that debut goal against Liverpool gave me goosebumps. Oh well. Best of luck to Rasmus, he will need it.

Yeah, what a fecking debut… ahhh man. I honestly thought we’d signed the next Rooney.

Ah Martial, so fecking close but just not quite there.

 

[croadyman]

We are clearly loaded.. We are looking to sign 4 more players..
Rolling in money.

Another striker, a midfielder, a CB if Maguire goes.. and a backup keeper. More signings please.

Dream on we aren't rolling in anything

 

[Crimson King]

Based on what I've read and heard in press conferences, Jamie Jackson is a bit uncouth. Not sure if it's natural or a move to engineer more clicks, but it makes me doubt his credibility. Especially when subtitlty and precision is required.

I just don't think he likes his job. I think he fancies himself as a 'real' writer and sees writing about football as beneath him now.

That, or he's just incredibly fecking jaded and trying his utmost to get sacked at some point.

 

[Andycoleno9]

We clearly did not

Didn't we start with 40 plus 10 (or something like that)?

 

[awop]

fiorentina?

Edited, was reading about Vlahovic and messed up