9
We're not an apprenticeship program that offers 4 year courses for young strikers to maaaybe become good.
Not at all but anyone with half an ounce of footballing knowledge knows Rasmus is a far better prospect than Wood was at 21 and again, your point was that at 21 Wood was better which he demonstrably was not. Claiming you were making a different point at this stage only works if you delete your earlier posts.
I am not convinced by Rasmus believe me but the vast majority of world class strikers were at the same level or even a little behind where he is at when they were 21 and that includes many of our own legends. In 10 years time we could be talking about Rasmus in the same way we talk about RVN or he could just as easily be chugging along scoring 10-15 goals a season at a mid level PL club, the simple truth is that none of us really knows at this point. He is a talented lad who has made a fast start to his career and has chopped and changed clubs and managers an awful lot in a short space of time, the next 2 or 3 years will show if he can develop or not and hopefully Amorim and United can help him to the next level. He is not ready to be the only striker for a club like ours but again very few his age would be, he should have been bought as an understudy to a veteran but we screwed that up and so it is what it is. I would just like to see some common sense in the posts about him and not the usual armchair experts declaring him shit because he missed a cross from Dalot.
You just can’t help yourself. Ruud was 25 when he signed for us not 22. When he was the same age as Rasmus he was managing 13 goals in a season for Heerenveen in the Dutch league.Anyone with half an ounce of football knowledge understands you don't suddenly develop technique, strikers instinct, ball control, those are skills learned or naturally inherent in a footballer formed from their developing years.
Our legendary strikers were not playing like clumsy donkey's when they were 21. Rooney was our main man and dependable striker at 18 years old who could do everythng. Giggs was 17(although a winger) when he showed it was obvious he was going to be world class. Ronaldo was 18 when he was terrorising teams in the prem, Ruud was 22 when we signed him and teared the prem and Cl apart. And these are just world class players at our club I could name a bunch of other 21 year old strikers who were already world class and winning Ballor'ds
Even Martial at 19 didn't need this ''he's only 21'' excuse to prevent him terrorising defences in the prem. the only problem people had with him was his body language and demeanour because he committed the crucial sin in not chasing lost balls and showing passion with his face
We signed Bebe at 20 years old and I and I'm sure you didn't need 3 more years of him at the club to wait and see if he would suddenly become a world class player
We signed Charicrito at 21 and not even he showed so many limitations and our standards for our front forward were a lot higher where everyone knew such a limited forward would always be at best a bench player and not the leading club as the main striker
Stick anyone of our academy strikers like Hugil who does actually have better movement than Hojlund, as well as strikers instincts and he'd have the same numbers. Put a 21 Chris Wood in a united team and he'd have the same or better numbers than Hojlund who has 2 prem goals in 10 appearances.
He is not some prodigy, Cophegan gave him away for free he came from their academy and they did nothing to fight o keep hm, his best goal tally in a top league was 9 goals at Atlanta prior to us splashing 72 million on him and I've yet to see a full game outside the early CL against cophegan and galatasary where he terrorised defences or consistently caused any threat to defence through a full 90 minutes.
A few newbies popping up recently with absolutely abhorrent opinions littered with incorrect information. Can't get a single age right when its a quick google awayYou just can’t help yourself. Ruud was 25 when he signed for us not 22. When he was the same age as Rasmus he was managing 13 goals in a season for Heerenveen in the Dutch league.
Of course I mentioned that most star strikers are still developing at 21 so you run to the exceptions as if that proves your point. Sheringham was playing lower league football with Millwall well into his mid twenties, Solskjaer was playing for a semi pro team in Norway at the same age as Rasmus, Andy Cole was at Bristol City at 21. In each case they improved greatly throughout their careers but you appear to be another of those who believes footballers are the finished article the first time you see them. For the record I see a lot of good things in Rasmus and so your opinion that he lacks technique or even more laughably your comparison to Bebe is just that, your opinion and it seem to be of very little value.
Oh my forgive me, I got the year wrong, google gave me incorrect age when he signed. But you are wrong also about age, he was 20 at Heerenveen when he only scored 13 goals and only played one season there but I'm not going to act like it's some gotcha moment and neither was cole 21 at Bristol when he signed with them he was 20 if you want to nit-pick. We actually signed Ruud at 24, but then he failed the medical, delayed the transfer and officially joined the following summer when he turned 25.You just can’t help yourself. Ruud was 25 when he signed for us not 22. When he was the same age as Rasmus he was managing 13 goals in a season for Heerenveen in the Dutch league.
Of course I mentioned that most star strikers are still developing at 21 so you run to the exceptions as if that proves your point. Sheringham was playing lower league football with Millwall well into his mid twenties, Solskjaer was playing for a semi pro team in Norway at the same age as Rasmus, Andy Cole was at Bristol City at 21. In each case they improved greatly throughout their careers but you appear to be another of those who believes footballers are the finished article the first time you see them. For the record I see a lot of good things in Rasmus and so your opinion that he lacks technique or even more laughably your comparison to Bebe is just that, your opinion and it seem to be of very little value.
It is funny how when we were eating money on Cavani, Ronaldo, Ighalo, Ibra etc. people were saying we needed to buy young players and develop them. Then we do that and after a season (which Rasmus actually hit respectable numbers) everyone can’t wait to write him off.Of course we are, every club is, that is why we buy young players with potential. They are not the finished product, but you buy the potential. Of course they have to show progress. But they deserve time to fulfill their potential. That is how every club operates.
Jesus, some of you completely lost the plot.
Anyone with half an ounce of football knowledge understands you don't suddenly develop technique, strikers instinct, ball control, those are skills learned or naturally inherent in a footballer formed from their developing years.
Our legendary strikers were not playing like clumsy donkey's when they were 21. Rooney was our main man and dependable striker at 18 years old who could do everythng. Giggs was 17(although a winger) when he showed it was obvious he was going to be world class. Ronaldo was 18 when he was terrorising teams in the prem, Ruud was 22 when we signed him and teared the prem and Cl apart. And these are just world class players at our club I could name a bunch of other 21 year old strikers who were already world class and winning Ballor'ds
Even Martial at 19 didn't need this ''he's only 21'' excuse to prevent him terrorising defences in the prem. the only problem people had with him was his body language and demeanour because he committed the crucial sin in not chasing lost balls and showing passion with his face
We signed Bebe at 20 years old and I and I'm sure you didn't need 3 more years of him at the club to wait and see if he would suddenly become a world class player
We signed Charicrito at 21 and not even he showed so many limitations and our standards for our front forward were a lot higher where everyone knew such a limited forward would always be at best a bench player and not the leading club as the main striker
Stick anyone of our academy strikers like Hugil who does actually have better movement than Hojlund, as well as strikers instincts and he'd have the same numbers. Put a 21 Chris Wood in a united team and he'd have the same or better numbers than Hojlund who has 2 prem goals in 10 appearances.
He is not some prodigy, Cophegan gave him away for free he came from their academy and they did nothing to fight o keep hm, his best goal tally in a top league was 9 goals at Atlanta prior to us splashing 72 million on him and I've yet to see a full game outside the early CL against cophegan and galatasary where he terrorised defences or consistently caused any threat to defence through a full 90 minutes.
I think it took Ronaldo about three years to get a goal in Europe, was getting dropped for Darren Fletcher to play right wing. Before going on to become one of the greatest goalscorers ever.
You're way off on this in terms of the ages of the comparisons. Which is important as that's your entire point.
Your general argument is also way off. There are no 20/21 year old playing up front for the world's biggest clubs outside of a very rare exception here or there. Even on Rooney, you're wrong. He wasn't our main goalscorer when he signed. Ruud was.
Yep, the way some are still defending Rasmus proves it
These kids spend too much time playing FIFA, or think freaks like Haaland are the benchmark. A guy who's also struggling to help his team score enough to win games, I might add.You just can’t help yourself. Ruud was 25 when he signed for us not 22. When he was the same age as Rasmus he was managing 13 goals in a season for Heerenveen in the Dutch league.
Of course I mentioned that most star strikers are still developing at 21 so you run to the exceptions as if that proves your point. Sheringham was playing lower league football with Millwall well into his mid twenties, Solskjaer was playing for a semi pro team in Norway at the same age as Rasmus, Andy Cole was at Bristol City at 21. In each case they improved greatly throughout their careers but you appear to be another of those who believes footballers are the finished article the first time you see them. For the record I see a lot of good things in Rasmus and so your opinion that he lacks technique or even more laughably your comparison to Bebe is just that, your opinion and it seem to be of very little value.
Ronaldo was 18 we paid 12 million for him, it was obvious he had great talent. Being dropped for more experience player so he could be protected and have his minutes managed had nothing to do with talent or ability. By the time Ronaldo was 21 he was menace for both club and country, he was racking up over 25- 27 goals at 21 and by the time he turned 23 he won his first Ballor'd. To even suggest hojlund is on the same trajectory as this, as SAF would say is beyond the pale
I never said Rooney was our main goal scorer, I said he was already proving he could be depended on and be our main man at 18 years old and was not having games where he looked like a clumsy donkey or not posing any threat to the defence
Haaland was City's main striker at 21. Cole Palmer although not a striker is Chelsea's key player at 21. Saka, is Arsenal's key player at 23. Real Madrid signed Benzema at 21 years old and was leading their front line. Hojlund is turning 22 in Feb, do you honestly believe based on what we've seen 2 goals in 10 prem games, he's suddenly going to a wrecking machine as soon as he reaches a magical number in age?
I honestly believe we will be lucky if Hojlund turns out to be as productive as Ben 10 Benteke and that's not me being mean that's my honest opinion, since Benteke was an all round better player in all area's at 21 when he was at Villa and still didn''t turn into the new R9 or Cristiano Ronaldo
Fletcher was only a year older which according to yourself counts for very little. He was chosen ahead of Ronaldo because he was just more dependable.
Absolutely nobody is saying Hojlund is another same path as Ronadlo. That's a disingenuous argument.
The point is that maybe the greatest goalscorer of all time was in fact pretty rubbish in front of goal until he was about 21.
You outright said "Rooney was our main man" when we signed him. Obvious nonsense.
Comparisons to Palmer, Saka, they're not strikers. We're talking here about young strikers and the ability to improve goalscoring with age.
Almost every striker that's existed starts slow and hits their goalscoring potential around their mid 20's. It's just a basic fact in football.
Have a different argument sure, but get the basics right. If you're talking about ages, when players hit their stride, get the age right. If you want to compare players, compare like for like.
Would Real Madrid invest time in a crappy limited target man? Would Barcelona? Would City? Would Liverpool?Is he worth investing the time in?
Exactly we'll just groom more Rashfords. Goodish players but not EPL or UCL winning good. When Madrid buy them young they buy the Varane, Camavinga, Bellingham etc players everyone look at and envy. We use to be that with the likes of Rooney and Ronaldo.Would Real Madrid invest time in a crappy limited target man? Would Barcelona? Would City? Would Liverpool?
If we want to be the best then why the hell would we continue to blindly give time to managers/players who clearly aren't up to standard. That's what we've been doing for 11 years and look where we are. I'm sick of the same old excuses and can't be arsed with it anymore
Reading this thread I constantly think there are 2 conversations going on and they rarely intersect.
Constant defense of his goal total when I really don't think that it what the majority of people are concerned with, he can finish, he will score goals, problem is if he is not scoring what is he offering? His all round game is extremely limited and the service argument can only go so far, a striker is a part of the attack, not apart from it, if it is dysfunctional they are part of the dysfunction.
He doesn't cause enough problems for the defense with his all round game, isn't the type of constant threat that can wear down defensive shape and lead to opportunities for others, he is too easy to neutralize unless the ball falls for him.
I would be far more optimistic if he ended the season with 10 goals and showed major developments across his game than 20 goals and none.
Fletcher was only a year older which according to yourself counts for very little. He was chosen ahead of Ronaldo because he was just more dependable.
Absolutely nobody is saying Hojlund is another same path as Ronadlo. That's a disingenuous argument.
The point is that maybe the greatest goalscorer of all time was in fact pretty rubbish in front of goal until he was about 21.
You outright said "Rooney was our main man" when we signed him. Obvious nonsense.
Comparisons to Palmer, Saka, they're not strikers. We're talking here about young strikers and the ability to improve goalscoring with age.
Almost every striker that's existed starts slow and hits their goalscoring potential around their mid 20's. It's just a basic fact in football.
Have a different argument sure, but get the basics right. If you're talking about ages, when players hit their stride, get the age right. If you want to compare players, compare like for like.
Man, this is getting tiring to read. Two goals, and Rasmus is on the way to becoming the Goat. A bad game, and he should be swopped with some Championship striker or sold or something. I get the frustration, when we lose, but do we really need to sink this low? It is quite frankly embarassing. People are comparing Rasmus to CR7 and Rooney in here right now, and surprise. He gets out on the losing side of such comparisons. Rasmus is not perfect. He has to work on his first touch and his turns, and he needs to time his runs into the 6 yard box a little better. He is a top tier finisher though, fast as hell, hard worker and a high velocity shooter. You can build on that. With the service he is getting, you could really put anyone in there. Kane, Osimhen, Gyökeres or Haaland. It doesn´t matter. No striker will get 20 goals with the way we are playing right now. If you believe otherwise, you should watch another sport. If we buy let´s say Kane I promise you. Two-three games later, someone in here would want to swop him for some league one talent, who scored a spectacular bicycle kick goal against Wrexham or Hull last week. Get your wingers to cross properly and give Rasmus a couple of nice through balls to use his pace. Then he will score.
At 21 Ruud was destroying the eredivisie and breaking records which is why we picked him up. Had his goal return been 12 goals the whole season at 21 in the eredivisie, I highly doubt SAF would have set eyes on him let alone bought him here for such a high fee
RVN was born 1 July 1976, which means he was 21 years old for the whole of the 1997/98 season.
In the 97/98 season he played for Heerenveen and he scored 13 goals in 31 games in the league, 16 in 40 in all competitions.
This took me about 5 seconds to find out.
Alan Shearer was born 13 August 1970, which means he was 21 for almost the entirety of the 1991/92 season.
In the 91/92 season he played for Southampton and scored 13 goals in 41 games in the league, 21 in 60 in all competitions.
Thierry Henry was born 17 August 1977 which means he was 21 for almost the whole of the season 1998/99 season.
In the 98/99 season he played for both Monaco and Juventus and scored 4 goals in 29 games in the league, 4 in 38 in all competitions.
Dwight Yorke was born 3 November 1971 which means he spent most of his time as a 21 year old in the 1992/93 season, with a small portion at the start of the 1993/94 season.
He was playing for Aston Villa in both seasons. In 92/93 he scored 6 goals in 27 games in the league, 7 in 35 in all competitions, and the 93/94 season scored 2 goals in 12 games in the league and 3 in 14 in all competitions.
There are literally countless examples of players not hitting big numbers until they turn 22/23. The likes of Wright or Vardy weren't even playing professional football at 21.
Ok buddy if you want to be pedantic, as if there is a big difference between 21/22 by a few months. I've given countless examples of 21 year olds who were already proving their class at an elite level which again you've left out of your post choosing to cherry pick one liners instead addressing the other points I've made. You are right with those strikers, but those are exceptions. The only issue with your small sample is the fact Henry was not even a striker at Monaco or Juventus and Ruud was only 22 when he proved he was exceptional at PSV breaking records which made us go in for him.
Did you even watch these players at 21 years old? Were they showing terrible technique, did they have no clue how to impact a game of football, when they didn't score? We could use this argument for any young striker in the world, why our we not using these excuses for Antony and saying Mo Salah, Ribery didn't hit big numbers at they were 26 or lets wait until Antony turns 30 and maybe he will become like Di Natele? Do you realise how insane this kind of logic is?
Ok buddy if you want to be pedantic, as if there is a big difference between 21/22 by a few months. I've given countless examples of 21 year olds who were already proving their class at an elite level which again you've left out of your post choosing to cherry pick one liners instead addressing the other points I've made. You are right with those strikers, but those are exceptions. The only issue with your small sample is the fact Henry was not even a striker at Monaco or Juventus and Ruud was only 22 when he proved he was exceptional at PSV breaking records which made us go in for him.
Did you even watch these players at 21 years old? Were they showing terrible technique, did they have no clue how to impact a game of football, when they didn't score? We could use this argument for any young striker in the world, why our we not using these excuses for Antony and saying Mo Salah, Ribery didn't hit big numbers at they were 26 or lets wait until Antony turns 30 and maybe he will become like Di Natele? Do you realise how insane this kind of logic is?
Hojlund's & Garnacho's link up play between each other is so poor. I'm sure I clocked numerous times today where they were waving their arms in frustration at each other. But then who do you drop, the Academy boy wonder or the 70m signing?
It's not solely Hojlund's fault but he does play a big part in it. The whole attack is a dysfunctional mess of mediocrity and when Amad isn't firing we look so impotent.
Totally agree.The biggest reason i think Hojlund is not good enough is because of his games with Denmark.
People blame Denmark's lack of creativity as a reason rarely gets a grip in enforcement over 90 mins.
Whilst Denmarks lack of creativity maybe true - Denmark arent exactly playing against the worlds best teams either and i have seen him play in such low level matches and still be non existent.
The last game United provided well enough service to atleast get a shot on target even if he doesnt score a goal & accurately shows that his goal conversion rate is so high becase he takes so little shots per game & therefore so little shots throughout a whole season. Ive seen Amad score headed goals on the back post that Hojlund should be on the end of instead. RVN didnt improve him at all either when i initially thought RVN came to improve Zirkzee's game because his lack of finishing abilities.
Id buy Samu from Porto to swap with Hojlund - Goal a game and reminds me of Drogba. Very butch and physical striker & can get put his back on the defenders without grinding with them until they eventually fall. Swap deals rarely happen though and seem unrealistic.
However, this is looking more and more like Ten Hag level transfer.
