Rashford considering his future...

That would go some way to explaining his on pitch performances.
:lol:

In an attempt to try understand why him or others are playing badly, the fans have created some stories in their minds and have firmly believed them to be true.
The only thing we know and see is that what Rashford has been doing on the pitch is nowhere near enough, I doubt more gym sessions is the key to improve otherwise "training" is the easiest thing a pro can do.
 
You know he can still access top class training facilities in Dubai right just as he could be doing feck all but get drunk at United.
I'm sure he can. But every break in fixtures he's off somewhere else in the World, hours after the final whistle. It's hardly a good look - and realistically we know it's not to work on his game.

I'm genuinely concerned he's lost his passion for it.

Anyway, I'm not creating a story or saying anything controversial. I'm simply saying in his position I wouldn't keep flying to new countries every chance I got. I wouldn't care if i had to kick around a second-hand ball in Skegness, I'd be absolutely pissed off with my form and ruthless in my attempts to get my form back.
 
I'm sure he can. But every break in fixtures he's off somewhere else in the World, hours after the final whistle. It's hardly a good look - and realistically we know it's not to work on his game.

I'm genuinely concerned he's lost his passion for it.

Anyway, I'm not creating a story or saying anything controversial. I'm simply saying in his position I wouldn't keep flying to new countries every chance I got. I wouldn't care if i had to kick around a second-hand ball in Skegness, I'd be absolutely pissed off with my form and ruthless in my attempts to get my form back.
Your concern for his loss of passion makes sense and I relate to that. I just think his issues are not gonna get solved by more training, lack of tracking back, being greedy, running into blind alleys etc etc don't have gym solutions to them.

If Rashford doesn't wanna be a proper team player on the pitch during all phases of the game then there is nothing training harder will do.

Either the coaching staff can get back of track mentally or he needs to go.
 
No, it's the insistence on giving spots in the first team to homegrown players regardless of whether their good enough or not. Then using that decision to limit signings in certain positions. Our policy isn't the problem, we've just been imitating it in the wrong way.

That's the thing about developing players though, with the vast majority of them you don't really know if they're good enough for the first team until you actually give them a run in the first team. You are basically saying United unless we have a sure thing outstanding outstanding talent like a Giggs, Scholes or Greenwood shouldn't bother trying to develop academy players by blooding them into the first team. Which is a strange view for a Manchester United fan to be honest, as the club for the majority of it's history has always strived to develop homegrown players.

And United trying to develop players hasn't limited signings at all, we've signed lots of players over the past decade for a shit tonne of money but because we've chose managers poorly we've spent very poorly for the most part which is why we've ended up with academy players the likes of Lingard and McTominay having extended stretched in the first team when all they should have ever been was squad players.
 
I'm not saying it's wrong that we should not give youth a chance, but I'm saying that we've started doing it with no context. You will usually have 2 or 3 break through in a 6 year period from a good youth academy. Our fans had us forcing the likes of Pereira in the first team on the basis of having a little bit of technique and being from the academy. That type of thinking leaves you going nowhere. Giving chances to potential stars like Greenwood is one thing, but forcing through players like Mctominay and Pereira is another.

How exactly did fans force the managers of Man Utd to play Pereira?
 
The mistake we have made with Rashford, is the same mistake we have consistently made with the whole team. We are so needy for homegrown/ english talent. This is also apparent in our lack of modern managers over the last almost 10 years.

The assumption is that a homegrown or young English player would love the club, give their all and provide a level of certainty and stability to the club. In reality, this has led to us keeping and overpaying talent that were never truly good enough to either be here or demand the type of salary, celebration or respect they recieved. From 2010 with the likes of Welbeck, Cleverley to the Jones, Smalling debacle all the way down to the likes of Rashford, Lingard and Mctominay. We have neglected filling in certain positions with the hope of development. The problem in our player development isn't our coaching, it's our expectations that have been warped. It is very unlikely that a lot of great players develop and become superstars from one specific academy. Most great teams already have good players in their squad, which usually means that the younger player coming through has to prove their ability to displace the older good player. Foden at City had to prove that he was better or as good as the likes of Sterling and Mahrez to get the opportunities that he has had. When Busquets came through at City, he had to prove he was as good as Yaya Toure to start for Barca. At United, we have done the opposite of that. Our coaches and even fans, have encouraged not signing needed talent in order to give some young players the chance to develop. This has led to us being dependent on the future development, loyalty and performances of those players. Something that is usually far less likely to happen than people imagine. It feels similar to what Arsenal were doing in the late 2000's, relying heavily on the development of young players who either left or never reached the required level of a top talent. Arsenal, like us, wasted seasons waiting on these players to develop, which most never did. But it was " the right way".

Under Fergie, outside of Scholes, Beckham, Giggs and Neville we did not have any other first team players consistently starting at United coming through or developed through the academy.
Further to this, outside of the outstanding talents of Ronaldo and Rooney, one could make the argument that we did not develop a true youngster coming in from outside the club who would start for the club. The young players we did sign, were young and already renowned like Sancho.

Darren Fleetcher? There are many more that came through the academy and youth setup.

Every club places a heavy emphasis on nurturing their own talents. As in, every single top club does that.

Barcelona and Real Madrid above almost anyone develop their own youngsters despite the prevalent fantasy money signings. Chelsea have debuted 50 academy graduates since 2003. Manchester City has produced more Premier League players than any team in the past 20 years.

The current youth setup is absolutely stacked with future first team players. The previous regime saw to that. James Garner will be here next year. Mejbri is soon ready. Elanaga is already here. Etcetera.

What mistake did we do with Marcus Rashford exactly? Believe in him for delivering the goods?

July 1st 2019 Marcus Rashford signed a new contract with the club off the back of his breakout season at the age of 21. He scored 10 PL goals and 8 PL assists in 33 appearances at the age of 19 as well as 2 CL goals 1 assist. Those arent pretty good numbers, those are exceptional numbers for a footballer who is this young. The conversation has been turned to freaks like Erling Haaland or Kylian Mbappe who are colossal outliers in term of footballing output, talking as if this is even remotely normal and to be expected from similar talents. 21 years olds are still barely adults, nowhere near done developing. The typical development curve of any athlete goes up to age 25. A players usual peak is between the ages of 25 and 29. There are many, many exceptions to this rule, but this is the average.

In 19/20, Rashford played 44 games and had 34 goal involvements (22G 12A) in what was also Anthony Martials best season. Its so far the only season he has truly earned the contract he was given. That is a full year where his development curve was pointing straight upwards after a fantastic breakout season.

20/211 Is really the "Season of Troubles". More gametime, but about the same offensive output as 19/20 spread over more competitions. He still produces 21G 15A on the season, completely respectable numbers, just a hair behind his 19/20 campaign. The notable difference is a reduction in PL goals (-6) and some notable changes to his individual overall performance that has been attributed to his shoulder.

21/22 is Rashfords only poor season at the club. Being sidelined after surgery to start the season (4W2D1L), only to return at the very start of the downfall of Oles tenure that started with the 4-2 Loss v Leicester.

In reality, he has not had the luxurry of being allowed to play himself into form on a team that "has everything together". Of course that does not excuse any individual problems, but some of it is surely atributed to teammates failing to playing him good as well. Its a bit of a deep valley that comes with a sprinkling of poor timing, and a club employee who finds himself in a lengthy form slump on top of it. All of that will genuinely make for someone who plays football with raised shoulders and no confidence to be seen.

"That is not the clubs problem" or "The club needs to be though and sell him"

Everyone knows there is a footballer there. We know that beause we have seen him bang in the goals and be a ever present offensive threat for 3 years. There is no reason to immediately give up on a players you know for a fact can play ball.

You write that Foden had to prove that he was better than others. Rashford did do that though. For 3 years. How much more time should a player be given to prove themselves before you go for it and believe in them?

I dont know if Rashford will ever take himself out of his slump. History indicates that he definitely will. A change of manager and a new start with continuity is going to be extremely beneficial for everyone at the club.
 
It's not like first-team training has achieved much for Rashford - the opposite is closer to the truth if his form is any indicator. The same logic applies to the rest of the squad, as not one of our players has shown any real progress this season. Again, the opposite is closer to the truth.

Some time away from Old Trafford might do them some good. It certainly won't hurt them in any case.
I understand there are few ways out of this problem. But for me, I have always been thought that if you are having problems you work on it. You work on it in a place where you don't have any distraction. On other hand, these are new times.
 
I understand there are few ways out of this problem. But for me, I have always been thought that if you are having problems you work on it. You work on it in a place where you don't have any distraction. On other hand, these are new times.
I don't have a problem with them being away, a number of their teammates will be going away on international duty anyway. What I would be asking is how many stop behind after training to work on their weaknesses. Now that would be interesting to know. How many stay behind to do gym work to give themselves a nice physique rather than working on training ground on passing accurately, putting the ball in the net, taking a good corner etc.
 
I don't have a problem with them being away, a number of their teammates will be going away on international duty anyway. What I would be asking is how many stop behind after training to work on their weaknesses. Now that would be interesting to know. How many stay behind to do gym work to give themselves a nice physique rather than working on training ground on passing accurately, putting the ball in the net, taking a good corner etc.
That is interesting question.
 
I don't have a problem with them being away, a number of their teammates will be going away on international duty anyway. What I would be asking is how many stop behind after training to work on their weaknesses. Now that would be interesting to know. How many stay behind to do gym work to give themselves a nice physique rather than working on training ground on passing accurately, putting the ball in the net, taking a good corner etc.

Agree, good point.

All that time out with injury and rehabbing. Was any of it spent working on his left foot, his heading? It doesn't look like it. If anything he's got worse in those areas.
 
Goal.com (hardly reliable, I know), says we are interested in Richarlison. At this point, I would take him over Rashford any day of the week and twice on Sunday. He runs a ton, has a good eye for goal and feel he would do much better in a bigger club than he’s done at Everton.
 
Goal.com (hardly reliable, I know), says we are interested in Richarlison. At this point, I would take him over Rashford any day of the week and twice on Sunday. He runs a ton, has a good eye for goal and feel he would do much better in a bigger club than he’s done at Everton.
He would probably be better than Rashford is now but anybody would. I don’t know his stats, but he seems to miss a lot and doesn’t regularly contribute anything worthwhile, it would be a pass from me maybe 3 years ago I’d take him.
 
What would it take for fans who are still defending Rashford to put the club above one player ? You talk about performances, you talk about attitude, you talk about effort. Nothing is there to defend him. Others players like Pogba, Martial got called out for the lack of effort or lack of care and rightly so. With Rashford it’s much worse considering his constant PR in media. Even Neville has started saying stuff about him which really confirms that he is a bad egg in the dressing room. You never see Gary really criticising English players.

Nobody likes to hate their own players. Nobody wants to hate Rashford but when you see your beloved club is sinking and the players aren’t even bothered to put an effort, to give a damn or try to save it, then it really hurts because they are the only ones who can do something about it. Not you not me not anyone but players on the pitch.

And nobody can tell me how should I support the club. I care, I support the club out of pure love and passion. I don’t know how much money and time I have put in to follow united. If I had put that much time and money in something else my life would be infinitely better but I don’t regret one bit because that has become part of my identity which is invaluable to me. So when you see these players on the pitch don’t even make an effort or break a sweat for this club it becomes very very hard to back them. We all expect to see players like Marcus coming from the academy to care much more than others and ideally becoming superstars and becoming the face of our club in a good way but you can’t ignore the reality that is happening right now which is bleak and grim and that’s where it hurts the most.
 
Training? Lets not kid ourselfs. You don’t go to Dubai for training. This is a place you go for vacation. To relax. For some glamour. Posting picture on Instagram where you take few runs is just for social media so fans can say. Look at him training. We all know how it works.

If you want to train without any distraction you go to a lot less exposed place. And if you have a bad time like lot of our players do you simply stay at home and work out on your game. Football can be a very short career if you don’t take care of your body and mind. Suddenly you are not even League Two level. We have seen that before.
Okay dear. Ronaldo only went to Dubai for show. Good to know.
 
I don't have a problem with them being away, a number of their teammates will be going away on international duty anyway. What I would be asking is how many stop behind after training to work on their weaknesses. Now that would be interesting to know. How many stay behind to do gym work to give themselves a nice physique rather than working on training ground on passing accurately, putting the ball in the net, taking a good corner etc.
This I agree with. I'm sure not enough of the players are doing this.
 
Okay dear. Ronaldo only went to Dubai for show. Good to know.
Are we going to pretend now that Rashford and Ronaldo are on same level? I think it should worry that Ronaldo at age of 35+ have been more effective and usefull than lot of our players including Rashford.
No, I don’t like it when Ronaldo does that. But somehow you got one man at end of his career and the other who should concentrate 100% on football during the season. If not for the team, he should for his own sake. Otherwise he is going to end up soon in Championship or lower if he keeps playing like he does.
 
A bit late but I pretty much agree with Ian Wrights opinion on the video from after the Atleti game. He needs to lose these PR people.


The man is a hypocrite. When the Arsenal captain did it then he had a go at him and told him to apologize. He wants to destroy United. They all will be happy.
 
Considering his age and what he's achieved in the game it maybe isn't the best idea to compare him with Rashford to get a point across.
Are we going to pretend now that Rashford and Ronaldo are on same level? I think it should worry that Ronaldo at age of 35+ have been more effective and usefull than lot of our players including Rashford.
No, I don’t like it when Ronaldo does that. But somehow you got one man at end of his career and the other who should concentrate 100% on football during the season. If not for the team, he should for his own sake. Otherwise he is going to end up soon in Championship or lower if he keeps playing like he does.
Okay. Silly me for thinking professional footballers will go through all the trouble of filming themselves training only for promotional purposes and it being apparent when they're back to first team training that their fitness is off rather than training in Dubai just for the weather.

They're only in Dubai to relax, enjoy themselves and fake train. Only Ronaldo is there to actually train. Got it.
 
Okay. Silly me for thinking professional footballers will go through all the trouble of filming themselves training only for promotional purposes and it being apparent when they're back to first team training that their fitness is off rather than training in Dubai just for the weather.

They're only in Dubai to relax, enjoy themselves and fake train. Only Ronaldo is there to actually train. Got it.

I do not care what Ronaldo does in Dubai or Portugal. He delivers most of the time while Rashford could not be arsed to even make an effort.
 
When he is with Brandon he dresses alright. But with Lingard he dresses like a gangsta french artist.
This said whilst quoting a picture in which Brandon Williams is sporting a ludicrously large BW chain. ‘Gangsta’. . . code for. . .
 
Okay. Silly me for thinking professional footballers will go through all the trouble of filming themselves training only for promotional purposes and it being apparent when they're back to first team training that their fitness is off rather than training in Dubai just for the weather.

They're only in Dubai to relax, enjoy themselves and fake train. Only Ronaldo is there to actually train. Got it.
For some obscure reason you deliberately seem to be missing the point.
 
Gotta admit the way they dressed is quite fashionable. Certainly not my cup of tea but i can see the appeal to many people.
If this is fashionable I'd rather go back to being a caveman and wear bamboo leaves to hide my private parts
 
This said whilst quoting a picture in which Brandon Williams is sporting a ludicrously large BW chain. ‘Gangsta’. . . code for. . .
You missed the french artist part. Brandon still looked gangsta but not to the level of gangsta french artist.
 
For some obscure reason you deliberately seem to be missing the point.
I completely got your point. Ronaldo and Rashford are miles apart in their accomplishments in the game. Ronaldo has a proven method and we know that when he does what Rashford did, there's no reason to doubt him.

I'm just choosing not to believe that a professional athlete who looks as in shape as Rashford does slacks off with his training.
 
Although the likes of Rashford and Lingard do annoy me with how they portray themselves online, it is a whole new world now and I need to remind myself not to compare apples and oranges. With that I mean, if there was Social Media and mobile phones in the 70’s, 80’s, 90’s, we’d probably have a very different view of some ex players we look back on as heroes or with great affinity.
 
Although the likes of Rashford and Lingard do annoy me with how they portray themselves online, it is a whole new world now and I need to remind myself not to compare apples and oranges. With that I mean, if there was Social Media and mobile phones in the 70’s, 80’s, 90’s, we’d probably have a very different view of some ex players we look back on as heroes or with great affinity.
Yeah but those ex players were delivering at the time while these current ones don't. Already said it numerous times as long as a player plays well for the club I really don't care what they do in their free time.
 
Hot take. Directly or indirectly the subject of players mental health has come up in regards to Rashford. Today Pogba has given an interview where he talks about depression, think it’s mostly about United being trophyless for 5 season and the recent burglary.

Last generation players judging todays players. Eg Gary Neville talking about the United players being out on holiday after getting beaten by AM. It is cheap as many pointed out to him his generation were hardly an example of honour and brotherhood and were arguably worse.