Rashford and Martial are a problem

Rashford and greenwood are playing out of position.

I'd drop martial, stick rashford to the left to link up with shaw and play greenwood upfront when cavani isn't starting.
 
Basically only of them should be a starter at United and I think most people would agree that we should pick Rashford. Both are very similar and have far too many below average performances . Martial is just a nothing player now , he has lost his zip this season and considering that he didn't have the desire from the start anyway he is really just harmless now for any opposition
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Cavani has made 6 tackles in 13 PL appearances (often as a sub)

Martial has made 6 tackles in 20 appearances (never as a sub, I think?)

Martial has made 1 tackle in 16 appearance.
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Gonna quote myself because these stats are too damning to get lost on the previous page. And that’s not to mention that R&M often play wide, with more defensive responsibilities, while Cavani plays exclusively through the middle.
 
I would have thought we'd see improvement from Rashford once Cavani came on.

There would be more space, and a player who you know where he will and want to be.

But instead he got shafted to the right, and Greenwood went off.

Martial severely hurts our attack. Not just because of how generally poor he is, but the positions he takes up are baffling.

A few times in the first half, he's standing next to the left back despite being the CF, and takes a light stroll back to the edge of the box.

He seems to want to spend more time attempting one twos into the box that will never come off rather than making any run at all.

When he has a chance to make a run, he's busy wrestling with his defender instead.
Neither does it seem like he has any cohesion with any single player in the team. You'd think he's been here and known them for a day. It's comical and appears lazy.

As for Rashford, we know what his strengths are. They don't work against low block teams, but I also think this is in part because we don't play to it.

The left side is usually packed with four or so players blocking that side. Rashford is probably at his best running at one or two and scaring the life out of them.
Our inability to draw players out to open up space is just frustrating to watch.
 
Loved the effort from rash 2nd half where he pointed to the runner and then completely let his man waltz into the box without a care in the world. That would be a perfect gif for those who love to bash martial only. Rash looked like he didn't give two shits about this game
 
Judas said:
Martial needing a bit of confidence at 25 is pathetic to me, he doesn't have it. No more excuses, he's not getting better, if anything he's getting worse.
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It’s not just his confidence. He doesn’t move to get in shooting positions and his heading is shit. You don’t need to be 6 foot to be good at headers. Look at Rooney/Aguero or Liverpool front three and how many headers they score. All he wants is ball to feet and do nothing with it. The best players move.
 
Everytime martial got the ball he was strolling along and slowed down the attack till sheffield got 10 players back and then passed it sideways to either pogba or bruno or backwards to telles and stopped running oh i mean strolling. So pogba and bruno had no one to pass to in the box. Atrocious. Even lingard would have been better in comparison.

I don't think marital ran past or bested any sheffield player even once during the entire game.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Gonna quote myself because these stats are too damning to get lost on the previous page. And that’s not to mention that R&M often play wide, with more defensive responsibilities, while Cavani plays exclusively through the middle.
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Rashford's bad as well, until recently he had 0.2 in the Prem i.e 1 tackle per 5 games, now he's 0.3.

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/300299/Show/Marcus-Rashford

Suspect it doesn't help that no matter how bad they play they're undroppable by Ole.
 
Born2Lose said:
Rashford's just as bad, until recently he had 0.2 in the Prem i.e 1 tackle per 5 games, now he's 0.3.

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/300299/Show/Marcus-Rashford

Suspect it doesn't help that no matter how bad they play they're undroppable by Ole.
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Evidently not. As per the stats I posted (official PL stats). He’s not “just as bad”. In fact he’s nowhere near as bad. He is bad though. Chronic lack of defensive effort. Cavani puts the pair of them to shame.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Gonna quote myself because these stats are too damning to get lost on the previous page. And that’s not to mention that R&M often play wide, with more defensive responsibilities, while Cavani plays exclusively through the middle.
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Martial is on there twice.

I presume the middle one is actually Rashford and not Martial?
 
I’d drop Martial from the match day squad altogether as he literally offered nothing tonight and I mean literally nothing, I’d rather James would have played.

I think the time has come to start playing Cavani as our first choice striker and use Greenwood either from the right or as second choice striker but Martial needs such a kick up the arse that I don’t think he should be anything other than Rashford’s back up now.

At least with Rashford you could make the case that he’s been shunted out right a lot this season to firstly accommodate Pogba then Martial so he’s got no consistency but his partnership with Shaw on that side is often great, he’s also our second top scorer despite being shunted out right so it’s fair to persist a few games more IF he’s played only on the left.

I’ve often defended Martial on here though and said I thought once we signed a natural right sided attacker we’d have a lot more balance and Martial would be better but I think we should look to get rid at the end of the season as he’s so bad when in this form and lazy if it’s not going his way that it’s like playing with 10 on the pitch.
 
I’ve said it before many times over the last couple of years...these two, more than anyone in our squad, you know exactly what type of game they will have after just a few minutes. Odd pair.
 
Martial is a luxury player we cant afford.
He´s good under the right conditions, but he´s not a United player.
 
Id rather we played lingard over martial at this point.

Rashford has been fusterating as well but nearly as bad..
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I included Rashford in the OP because, even though he’s a game-changer, he is unusually wasteful and sloppy for the main man up front at a top club. When he’s a support act for the likes of Cavani that isn’t a problem. When he’s paired with a non-entity like Martial and a kid like Greenwood it’s a recipe for disaster.
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I agree. He shouldn't be a lead yet, but he's good enough for us. Martial for me highlights the problem of signing a player too young. We never got to actually see if he could be a midtable player first, now we're stuck with him. We gave him a big contract without him even proving to be decent.
 
Huge fan and defender of Martial but he needs to be dropped for good for awhile now. His general play is not good and togetehr with the lack of goals, he doesn't offer much. Especially since we have Greenwood who can play the supporting striker role if Cavani needs a rest/ is not performing.

Rashford has also not been good but looks so jaded or maybe even injured. He needs a rest because we have half a season left and then the Euros. You know he'll play a lot, so we need to manage him in a way where he doesn't end up like Rooney.

Rashford's work rate has also dropped off a cliff to about 20% of what he used to do. He doesn't track back and in that he's genuinely close to Martial levels of lack of intensity. Greenwood, on the other hand, has really impressed me with his energy in the Liverpool game and even if it didn't work today, he was full of endeavour.
 
Jackal said:
At least, Rashford doesn't stop trying. He shows urgency and wants to make things happen.

Martial is the worst forward in Europe. No single forward pass fed to him stuck to his boots. He's just awful, how he's lasted this long at Man Utd is a testament to how badly things are run. He was the closest to Burke for their 2nd goal. All he needed to do was to close the passing lane to prevent the ball from being passed, Martial did nothing.

Useless offensively, hopeless defensively. A lot of fans think the duo would replicate Rooney and Ronaldo, they are several tiers below.
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Even if it did, he doesn't have it in him to make the right play after except pass back. He's not a target man, yet all he seems to do is play with his back to goal and people lap it up as linking play when he traps the ball. Him not being capable of playing on the right should highlight the fact that he's not actually a good dribbler, simply has decent close control on his right foot.
 
I assumed their lack of pressing this season was tactical as Rashford had a good work rate before but seeing how much Bruno and Cavani press while these two saunter across shows me that they are just lazy. These two are younger and more athletic yet are being put to shame by a 33 year old with far less to prove.
 
Rashford have performed and saved us times and times this season. Him & Bruno can get more free pass than Martial but Martial is just not performing at all this season and also not showing up when needed. When Bruno is not there to save us, Rashford will do it, if not then Pogba will do it. This is where Martial should be doing the same if none Bruno, Rashford and Pogba can save us in the match then Martial should step up for it, 3rd highest paid in the club to be passenger. He doesn’t have the mentality of player plays for big club.
 
I'm livid with those two, especially Martial. But let's not pretend Rashford is setting the world alight. The things he did yesterday were nothing short of baffling. Misplaced passes left and right and a proper lack of effort. Let those two fight it out for the left wing spot, get a striker and a RW in.
Maybe Mou was right all along...
 
These two are a big issue. They cannot keep the ball well, its so annoying because everytime they get the ball, they think they need to dribble past 3/4 defenders. Instead of passing and moving. There is no movement.

The one thing that is unforgiving is the workrate, these two were piss poor were rate last night, absolutely poor.
 
FerociousCorgis said:
Loved the effort from rash 2nd half where he pointed to the runner and then completely let his man waltz into the box without a care in the world. That would be a perfect gif for those who love to bash martial only. Rash looked like he didn't give two shits about this game
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Rashford has been slacking in defensive contribution for quite a while. However, he still puts effort in those run in behind, and chasing after a long ball, which at times is helpful.

Martial at the moment has no saving grace whatsoever.
 
I had never seen it before last night's game, but now it is alarmingly obvious and I can see it a mile away...

- Rashford and Martial are not strikers
- They are left-wingers
- They should not be on the pitch at the same time
- They should be each other's direct competition for the left-wing starting spot
 
Rashford has had patches but Martial just refusing to come into form at any point this season is beyond frustrating.
 
I have listed below our “primary” attacking players since the PL began. It’s not a complete list of every forward we have ever had as I have generally focused on players who were considered automatic starters.- or at the very least players who would start 20+ games across the course of a season

Cantona
Hughes
Cole
Yorke
Solskjaer
Sheringham
Ruud van Nistelrooy
Wayne Rooney
Cristiano Ronaldo
Carlos Tevez
Dimitar Berbatov
Robin van Persie
Zlatan Ibrahimovic
Marcus Rashford
Anthony Martial
Edison Cavani

Look at that list and try and tell me Rashford and Martial are ANYWHERE close to the level of the other 14. It’s night and day.

This is why I call Rashford a mid-table player AT BEST (and Martial can go in that category now as well).

Wake up RedCafe. Remember what it used to mean to be a Manchester Utd forward and wise up to the fact these two are not even on the same planet as our previous lot
 
As a pair, who basically lead our attack, they've been very poor overall this season (Rashford did well in some games though), and I see them struggle against low block teams, they need to learn from Cavani, who not only constantly moves in the box, he reads the direction of the play and move to areas which is easier for our creators (Fernandes & Pogba) to pass into, yesterday Cavani moved into an area expecting Pogba will get ball on the right wing from Wan Bissaka, Pogba spotted the run and sent the ball into Cavani's path who moved near post, Martial & Rashford do not do that, they are too static and expect to be found.
 
Lentwood said:
I have listed below our “primary” attacking players since the PL began. It’s not a complete list of every forward we have ever had as I have generally focused on players who were considered automatic starters.- or at the very least players who would start 20+ games across the course of a season

Cantona
Hughes
Cole
Yorke
Solskjaer
Sheringham
Ruud van Nistelrooy
Wayne Rooney
Cristiano Ronaldo
Carlos Tevez
Dimitar Berbatov
Robin van Persie
Zlatan Ibrahimovic
Marcus Rashford
Anthony Martial
Edison Cavani

Look at that list and try and tell me Rashford and Martial are ANYWHERE close to the level of the other 14. It’s night and day.

This is why I call Rashford a mid-table player AT BEST (and Martial can go in that category now as well).

Wake up RedCafe. Remember what it used to mean to be a Manchester Utd forward and wise up to the fact these two are not even on the same planet as our previous lot
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Chicharito was also a monster in the box with his movements, though he lacked alot in his general play, the he moved extremely well in the box and scored plenty of goals, Rashford and Marrtial do not do that at all !!!!
 
I dont think I have ever seen two strikers play so badly for the same team in the same match.....genuinely.

Martial was beyond abysmal and Rashford was maybe a tiny notch above that. Ighalo would have been way better for us if he was playing last night.
 
I don’t get this “Rashford plays well in patches” stuff we hear.

No he doesn’t. He plays well in minutes, if that.

All I see from Rashford is 90mins of sh**e every week with one or two isolated moments of skill or a decent shot or something. His all round game is painful to watch.

As soon as he is stopped, turned or has his back to goal, he’s a terrible liability
 
Lentwood said:
I have listed below our “primary” attacking players since the PL began. It’s not a complete list of every forward we have ever had as I have generally focused on players who were considered automatic starters.- or at the very least players who would start 20+ games across the course of a season

Cantona
Hughes
Cole
Yorke
Solskjaer
Sheringham
Ruud van Nistelrooy
Wayne Rooney
Cristiano Ronaldo
Carlos Tevez
Dimitar Berbatov
Robin van Persie
Zlatan Ibrahimovic
Marcus Rashford
Anthony Martial
Edison Cavani

Look at that list and try and tell me Rashford and Martial are ANYWHERE close to the level of the other 14. It’s night and day.

This is why I call Rashford a mid-table player AT BEST (and Martial can go in that category now as well).

Wake up RedCafe. Remember what it used to mean to be a Manchester Utd forward and wise up to the fact these two are not even on the same planet as our previous lot
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Marcus Rashford was 22 years old at the start of this season. Think about that for a moment. Then think about where all those players on that list were playing football at the same age. The penny will drop, eventually.
 
We have a really big deficiency to our game, and it has been the case for a long time now. We cannot seem to get our forwards or fullbacks into the space behind the oppositions back four. When you watch other teams like City, most of their attacks come from this area. Players take the ball to the byline and cross it to a team mate for a tap in. We never ever do this. Martial picks the ball up with his back to goal and he has 4 defenders stood behind him. He has nowhere to go but pass the ball backward, or he just runs into a cul de sac of defenders and loses the ball. Even last night when Shaw came on he made overlapping runs and Martial still played it down the middle of the pitch, where Sheffield United had 87 players camped for the night. Greenwood was are only forward player showing any promise or desire to go around them and not through them and we pulled him off for Martial who was having another stinker. Losing the ball and not making any attempt to win it back. Sorry, but I think his days are numbered. He does nothing. Rashford on the left against Liverpool was much more effective. I know you have to play your way into form, but how long have we been waiting for Martial to come good now?
 
Lentwood said:
I don’t get this “Rashford plays well in patches” stuff we hear.

No he doesn’t. He plays well in minutes, if that.

All I see from Rashford is 90mins of sh**e every week with one or two isolated moments of skill or a decent shot or something. His all round game is painful to watch.

As soon as he is stopped, turned or has his back to goal, he’s a terrible liability
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You'll be murdered by the "he's a local manc" brigade, but you're right.

Good player when playing counter-attack or instinct football. But my god he is so shit in his overall game, it's painful to watch.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Marcus Rashford was 22 years old at the start of this season. Think about that for a moment. Then think about where all those players on that list were playing football at the same age. The penny will drop, eventually.
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I’m not having it Pogue. The penny won’t drop. It’s basic lack of ability and awareness holding Rashford back. Not his age or some kind of naivety/mental block. The lad has played, what, 300+ senior games? What’s going to trigger this sudden improvement? Will he just wake up on his 25th birthday and suddenly be Rooney/Ronaldo level? I think not.

I don’t know what’s wrong with Martial, his problems do seem to be in his head but at 25, we’re past the point we can expect him to change.
 
youmeletsfly said:
You'll be murdered by the "he's a local manc" brigade, but you're right.

Good player when playing counter-attack or instinct football. But my god he is so shit in his overall game, it's painful to watch.
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Well I’m a local Manc, I live in Burnage about 15minutes from OT. Likewise my mate and lad I used to go to games with is a local Manc from Whythenshawe and he can’t stand Rashford.

Sure there are some who rate him but I’m not sure it’s the local lads necessarily who overrate him. I think it’s the Internet nerds and your part-timers who get suckered in by the “world class talent” nonsense.
 
Lentwood said:
I don’t get this “Rashford plays well in patches” stuff we hear.

No he doesn’t. He plays well in minutes, if that.

All I see from Rashford is 90mins of sh**e every week with one or two isolated moments of skill or a decent shot or something. His all round game is painful to watch.

As soon as he is stopped, turned or has his back to goal, he’s a terrible liability
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Unfortunately none of our attackers are consistently good enough during the games they would have moments that's about it ,I don't ever feel after watching the game that even single one of our attackers was constant threat through out the game that's why I find it baffling when posters say if we buy Grealish where would he play as if Rashford would keep him out he would even bench Fernandes eventually if he plays through the middle because he is that good and we need that kind of quality if we intend to get back to top.
Come next season both Rashford and Martial if not sold should not be starters for sure, we need better we deserve better.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Marcus Rashford was 22 years old at the start of this season. Think about that for a moment. Then think about where all those players on that list were playing football at the same age. The penny will drop, eventually.
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Or not. We don't know that. There's been plenty of promising players that couldn't kick on. If he doesn't develop a mentality to put the work in it will be difficult for him no matter his talent. I obviously do think he will become a very good player but the lack of effort from him is concerning.
 
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