Ralf Rangnick's consultancy role has been scrapped

[Rightnr]

Once again we're talking about his feckin interim period and not what he could offer the club.

Honestly, I am suprised so many of you bother with some of these individuals on here. They clearly struggle to comprehend the simple concept of separation of roles and how someone can be bad at one and very good or at least useful at the other.

We went over this time and again when he was in charge and also when it was announced he'd leave but there are people on here who are either willingly ignorant or just plain ignorant of the fact Rangnick is needed for the headhunter/recruiter role and not the coach one.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Honestly, I am suprised so many of you bother with some of these individuals on here. They clearly struggle to comprehend the simple concept of separation of roles and how someone can be bad at one and very good or at least useful at the other.

We went over this time and again when he was in charge and also when it was announced he'd leave but there are people on here who are either willingly ignorant or just plain ignorant of the fact Rangnick is needed for the headhunter/recruiter role and not the coach one.

As someone who has a set of biases generally unrelated to Man United I couldn't agree more with you mate. It's absolutely bizarre that so many here are intent on throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Rangnick hasn't been a top level manager for ages. But he has been unequivocally a top level DoF with extremely close ties to elite scouting networks. It's fecking ludicrous to dismiss him before he had a chance to operate in the role he's best suited for - yet another example of Man United's management shooting themselves in the foot (which has all been subsequently proved by the calibre of players linked recently).

 

[Forevergiggs1]

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/man...ll-freezes-over.440783/page-297#post-25055960

@RacingClub

Another quote from me dating back to Decenber 2019 avocating for Rangnick as DOF #11867 . . So I don't think I suddenly changed my mind on him as ( consultant to) DOF over one defeat in January 2022.

 

[stevoc]

Then why all the hatred (not personally from you) towards Ralf and the people who are disappointed that he wasn't given a chance in a role he has plenty of experience in? Especially since everyone has acknowledged that his interim was a disaster?

It does get tiring hearing,
"feck off from my club Ralf."
"The fella is a nobody."
" He doesn't have a clue."
"He's a fraud."
"He's done nothing in his career."

Etc etc. The blinkers are well and trying on and there's no taking them off for some people.

Comes with the territory of performing so badly as manager I suppose. Even an almost universally loved club legend like Solskjaer (pre 2019 anyway) has had much worse abuse on here over the last year or two.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Honestly, I am suprised so many of you bother with some of these individuals on here. They clearly struggle to comprehend the simple concept of separation of roles and how someone can be bad at one and very good or at least useful at the other.

We went over this time and again when he was in charge and also when it was announced he'd leave but there are people on here who are either willingly ignorant or just plain ignorant of the fact Rangnick is needed for the headhunter/recruiter role and not the coach one.

You're right mate but I just can't help myself sometimes. We all know he was a disaster as interim for whatever reason but people acting like he's a nobody in the world of football really gets on my tits. Especially when the experience he could of brought to the club right now is more than the rest of the so called professionals already hired by the club put together. It really is like they're blaming him for Ole losing his job that they're taking it so personally.

 

[Trophy Room]

He probably had some good ideas but ETH seems to want total control - him staying would have been detrimental in the long term. I also think open heart surgery was unrealistic. Just need to move on.

 

[Rightnr]

Comes with the territory of performing so badly as manager I suppose. Even an almost universally loved club legend like Solskjaer (pre 2019 anyway) has had much worse abuse on here over the last year or two.

OGS was a wet blanket and completely clueless in pretty much any aspect of the role. Not to the mention the scandals that he covered up in his past or his awful dressing room management. He had plenty of time and failed massively.

The fact people hate on Rangnick for his failure as a manager and wanted him gone in any capacity shows just how clueless they are.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Comes with the territory of performing so badly as manager I suppose. Even an almost universally loved club legend like Solskjaer (pre 2019 anyway) has had much worse abuse on here over the last year or two.

Possibly mate but not even Oles most negative posters are talking about him anymore. This is a Ralf consultancy (scrapped) thread but every other thread is about how bad he was as interim when that should be put in the past . One thing has nothing to do with the other.

 

[stevoc]

OGS was a wet blanket and completely clueless in pretty much any aspect of the role. Not to the mention the scandals that he covered up in his past or his awful dressing room management. He had plenty of time and failed massively.

The fact people hate on Rangnick for his failure as a manager and wanted him gone in any capacity shows just how clueless they are.

Yeah which illustrates the point I was making quite nicely.

Some United fans develop dislike towards United managers who fail.

 

[RacingClub]

Another quote from me dating back to Decenber 2019 avocating for Rangnick as DOF #11867 . . So I don't think I suddenly changed my mind on him as ( consultant to) DOF over one defeat in January 2022.

You keep mentioning that I think you changed your mind.

I didn't say that literally anywhere.

I didn't question that you were interested in him as a DOF or anything else previously literally anywhere either.

The post I replied to was this;

I think a lot of fans, when it turned out that Ralf was shit at managing, latched on to the idea that the real change would come when he stepped into his consultancy and invested a lot in that idea.

With this;

Usually the fans who convinced themselves of that were the ones who themselves were convinced that signing Ralf would mean that United were definitely going to finish in the top 4.

Once that didn't happen the focus was on how he was going to help restore order and the terrible performances etc were actually great because it exposed the players who weren't good enough.

Which you then said was agenda driven changing of the facts etc.

I've never claimed you hadn't wanted RR for years or only wanted him as a manager.

I've never claimed anyone changed their mind.

I have said that the people who believed he would get top 4 are usually the ones who invested into the idea that he would make real changes in the consultancy (Most likely because they felt that his previous work would result in good results on the pitch for United).

You decided to make it about you (which is fair enough) but it wasnt about you personally.

I only quoted you after you claimed my post wasn't based on fact and was in fact agenda driven (when I literally don't have any issue with RR)

So I quoted your post as an example that people who were invested in the change that RR was going to make (Like you were) , were usually the fans that were convinced that he was going to get Top 4 when he was appointed (as you were) and as that deteriorated shifted focus to mainly concentrating on the consultancy role (as you did) only because you accused me of basically inventing that as a way to push some invented agenda.

 

[mu4c_20le]

OGS was a wet blanket and completely clueless in pretty much any aspect of the role. Not to the mention the scandals that he covered up in his past or his awful dressing room management. He had plenty of time and failed massively.

The fact people hate on Rangnick for his failure as a manager and wanted him gone in any capacity shows just how clueless they are.

How can an adult get so emotional over people they've never met.

 

[stevoc]

Possibly mate but not even Oles most negative posters are talking about him anymore. This is a Ralf consultancy (scrapped) thread but every other thread is about how bad he was as interim when that should be put in the past . One thing has nothing to do with the other.

I'd agree but to be fair this thread wasn't bumped this week by people hating on Ralf or the prospect of him having a role at United, it was bumped by people bemoaning the fact he's not here as a consultant.

 

[Rightnr]

How can an adult get so emotional over people they've never met.

I agree. All the people hating on Rangnick really need to consider therapy.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

So I quoted your post as an example that people who were invested in the change that RR was going to make (Like you were) , were usually the fans that were convinced that he was going to get Top 4 when he was appointed (as you were) and as that deteriorated shifted focus to mainly concentrating on the consultancy role (as you did) only because you accused me of basically inventing that as a way to push some invented agenda.

I agree I thought he was going to get top 4 just like yourself (maybe out of optimism?) but you're basically saying when results started going south people started backtracking and all of a sudden the interim period didn't matter and it was the consultancy role was all that mattered when that just isn't true for the majority of the posters who said from the start that he was going to be a lot more effective as consultant than interim.

These are my own words when talking about Ralf

Giving Ralf the role he can at least see first hand the changes that will be needed in the short/medium term to get us functioning again as a top level club. So even if he is a failure as a manager which could be a distinct possibility the experience he will have obtained will definitely benefit him as well as the club when his interim period ends.

Everything ive said had been pointing towards his consultancy role and not his interim period just like many other people posting here whereas you think we changed our opinion when it became obvious Ralf was taking us nowhere because we've put him on a pedestal so we're automatically "Rangnites" which has been thrown around far too much here for no obvious reason.

 

[RacingClub]

you're basically saying when results started going south people started backtracking and all of a sudden the interim period didn't matter and it was the consultancy role was all that mattered when that just isn't true for the majority of the posters who said from the start that he was going to be a lot more effective as consultant than interim.

That's not what I'm saying/ I said.

What I'm saying is that because the expected change didn't occur during his interim period (playing style etc) people became convinced that it would happen due to his consultancy.

The worse things got during the interim period the more they felt he would use the bad results to enact real change when he went upstairs.

People doubled and tripled down on it and it was honestly like fan fiction at times.

Everything ive said had been pointing towards his consultancy role and not his interim period just like many other people posting here whereas you think we changed our opinion when it became obvious Ralf was taking us nowhere because we've put him on a pedestal so we're automatically "Rangnites" which has been thrown around far too much here for no obvious reason.

I didn't say that It was just pointed towards the consultancy role and I don't think that you changed your opinion.

You keep telling me how I think or have said you changed your mind etc but I haven't said that you (or anyone else) changed their mind.

What I said was because the expected changes didn't occur during the interim period people became more invested in the idea that the changes they expected immediately would occur eventually due to RRs consultancy even though his consultancy role wasnt defined and vague at best.

My only point was that the people who had the highest hopes for him initially (Predicting Top 4 etc) were usually the ones who felt that he would have more power to enact change when his consultancy began.

So even if he is a failure as a manager which could be a distinct possibility the experience he will have obtained will definitely benefit him as well as the club when his interim period ends.

It's like the "Sunk cost fallacy", the worse things got on the pitch the better things were going to be eventually.

In actual fact the worse things got on the pitch the less likely he was going to be granted any meaningful role in the United hierarchy.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

That's not what I'm saying/ I said.

What I'm saying is that because the expected change didn't occur during his interim period (playing style etc) people became convinced that it would happen due to his consultancy.

The worse things got during the interim period the more they felt he would use the bad results to enact real change when he went upstairs.

People doubled and tripled down on it and it was honestly like fan fiction at times.




I didn't say that It was just pointed towards the consultancy role and I don't think that you changed your opinion.

You keep telling me how I think or have said you changed your mind etc but I haven't said that you (or anyone else) changed their mind.

What I said was because the expected changes didn't occur during the interim period people became more invested in the idea that the changes they expected immediately would occur eventually due to RRs consultancy even though his consultancy role wasnt defined and vague at best.

My only point was that the people who had the highest hopes for him initially (Predicting Top 4 etc) were usually the ones who felt that he would have more power to enact change when his consultancy began.



It's like the "Sunk cost fallacy", the worse things got on the pitch the better things were going to be eventually.

In actual fact the worse things got on the pitch the less likely he was going to be granted any meaningful role in the United hierarchy.

Then my apologies for wasting a couple of hours of our lives that we won't get back for misunderstanding your initial post. My Mrs won't talk to me because I've spent hours on redcafe tonight so at least something good came out of it.

 

[RacingClub]

Then my apologies for wasting a couple of hours of our lives that we won't get back for misunderstanding your initial post. My Mrs won't talk to me because I've spent hours on redcafe tonight so at least something good came out of it.

No hassle mate I also enjoy the sweet silence after an argument.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

No hassle mate I also enjoy the sweet silence after an argument.

There wasn't even an argument. She got up, gave me that stare and then went off to bed without saying a word. Happy days
Which racing club does your username imply?

 

[RedPed]

I agree. All the people sucking off Rangnick really need to consider therapy.

 

[Foxbatt]

You're right mate but I just can't help myself sometimes. We all know he was a disaster as interim for whatever reason but people acting like he's a nobody in the world of football really gets on my tits. Especially when the experience he could of brought to the club right now is more than the rest of the so called professionals already hired by the club put together. It really is like they're blaming him for Ole losing his job that they're taking it so personally.

That's exactly what is happening. It could have been anyone.

 

[RedDevilFan01]

Did Ralf ever say anything about our scouting department? It's a bit shit too isn't it?

The club always welcomed Ralf's decisions and advice during his tenure. That doesn't mean the club will follow everything. The club is more inclined towards a vision with a long-term manager. Thus, it is obvious to rebuild from scratch what our long-term manager says. Ten Hag is our mission, and the club is there for that mission. Have your faith. Thank Ralf for his services, and he did what he could.

Clearly not.

Ralf Rangnick given a 2 year contract back in December to be a consultant for Man Utd until 2024.

And yet here we are in the summer of 2022 and Ralf is no longer employed by the club.

See it now?

Very wrong.

Ralf's consultancy role - There's no consultation role in this club when you hire a long-term manager. There was a discussion if he (Ralf) could join Ten hag, which seems more like an assistant role. Later, both had a conversation regarding the players and management. After, Ralf decided not to be a part knowing Ten Hag's plan, so he moved on to a better opportunity of his own.

And, again, Ralf was not sacked. Just to clarify.

Now, Media came in and mixed up to create a title of attraction for the sake of their business. If that is the source of your sense.

 

[afrocentricity]

Then my apologies for wasting a couple of hours of our lives that we won't get back for misunderstanding your initial post. My Mrs won't talk to me because I've spent hours on redcafe tonight so at least something good came out of it.

I don't blame her...

 

[mitchmouse]

anyone just starting to think - you know just a tiny bit - that the feckin club doesn't have a clue what it's doing?

 

[newgiz]

anyone just starting to think - you know just a tiny bit - that the feckin club doesn't have a clue what it's doing?

I think it is fairly obvious at this point of time.

 

[stevoc]

Very wrong.

Ralf's consultancy role - There's no consultation role in this club when you hire a long-term manager. There was a discussion if he (Ralf) could join Ten hag, which seems more like an assistant role. Later, both had a conversation regarding the players and management. After, Ralf decided not to be a part knowing Ten Hag's plan, so he moved on to a better opportunity of his own.

And, again, Ralf was not sacked. Just to clarify.

Now, Media came in and mixed up to create a title of attraction for the sake of their business. If that is the source of your sense.

He was hired on a 2 year consultancy deal and he was indeed sacked.

Official club statement from when he was hired:

Manchester United is delighted to announce the appointment of Ralf Rangnick as interim manager until the end of the season, subject to work visa requirements.
Following this period, Ralf and the club have agreed that he will continue in a consultancy role for a further two years.

John Murtough, Manchester United football director, said: “Ralf is one of the most respected coaches and innovators in European football. He was our number one candidate for interim manager, reflecting the invaluable leadership and technical skills he will bring from almost four decades of experience in management and coaching.
“Everyone at the club is looking forward to working with him during the season ahead, and then for a further two years in his advisory role.”

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...-ralf-rangnick-appointment-as-interim-manager

 

[stevoc]

anyone just starting to think - you know just a tiny bit - that the feckin club doesn't have a clue what it's doing?

I think it's fair to say that's been the case for most of the last decade. I'm still hopeful that Arnold/Murtagh might be able to turn it around though.

 

[Halftrack]

Honestly, I am suprised so many of you bother with some of these individuals on here. They clearly struggle to comprehend the simple concept of separation of roles and how someone can be bad at one and very good or at least useful at the other.

We went over this time and again when he was in charge and also when it was announced he'd leave but there are people on here who are either willingly ignorant or just plain ignorant of the fact Rangnick is needed for the headhunter/recruiter role and not the coach one.

Some are acting as if the interim period was in preparation for his future role. That's clearly silly, because his future role was a part time advisory position that was, according to reports, included in the deal at RR's request. Which would indicate the club was only interested in him for his manegerial ability, and had no plans of utilising him to any greater extent. Maybe they figured the future permanent manager would appreciate his observations and advice, but it seems like EtH wasn't particularly keen, making him completely redundant.

I'm not saying the hierarchy aren't idiots, I'm saying that some seem to have convinced themselves he was supposed to play a much bigger role than anything that's been said or reported would suggest.

 

[RedDevilFan01]

He was hired on a 2 year consultancy deal and he was indeed sacked.

Official club statement from when he was hired:



https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...-ralf-rangnick-appointment-as-interim-manager

"Manchester United is delighted to announce the appointment of Ralf Rangnick as interim manager until the end of the season, subject to work visa requirements"

That was very clear at the very beginning of this page.

“ Everyone at the club is looking forward to working with him during the season ahead, and then for a further two years in his advisory role.”

The club will only continue with him if they fail to hire a long-term manager for the upcoming seasons. His contract was until the end of the 2021/22 season and may be subject to change to an extension if required for a further two years. He (Ralf) was not hired for a two years contact here.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

I'm really not sure how you are reaching these conclusions from that text. They are not supported by it at all.

 

[Halftrack]

"Manchester United is delighted to announce the appointment of Ralf Rangnick as interim manager until the end of the season, subject to work visa requirements"

That was very clear at the very beginning of this page.

“ Everyone at the club is looking forward to working with him during the season ahead, and then for a further two years in his advisory role.”

The club will only continue with him if they fail to hire a long-term manager for the upcoming seasons. His contract was until the end of the 2021/22 season and may be subject to change to an extension if required for a further two years. He (Ralf) was not hired for a two years contact here.

What? He was always going to have the consultancy gig, it didn't hinge on anything.

 

[#07]

 

[stevoc]

"Manchester United is delighted to announce the appointment of Ralf Rangnick as interim manager until the end of the season, subject to work visa requirements"

That was very clear at the very beginning of this page.

“ Everyone at the club is looking forward to working with him during the season ahead, and then for a further two years in his advisory role.”

The club will only continue with him if they fail to hire a long-term manager for the upcoming seasons. His contract was until the end of the 2021/22 season and may be subject to change to an extension if required for a further two years. He (Ralf) was not hired for a two years contact here.

No, just no. Those quotes simply don't support what you are saying at all here mate. There was never any stipulation the likes of which you are suggesting. It doesn't even make any sense, why would Ralf only become a consultant in the event we didn't hire a long term manager?

So in the scenario you are suggesting we don't hire a permanent manager and Ralf becomes a consultant on a 2 year deal yes? So who would be the first team manager in that case, no one?

What?

 

[El Jefe]

The worship some on here have for Ralf surpasses any love I've ever seen for Fergie.

Quite obvious a few on here already despise EtH for not wanting anything to do with Ralf and have been itching to stick the knife in and took the very first opportunity they got.

All Ralf did outside of his horrendous coaching and man management was say the most obvious things that anyone could. Sign young and hungry players, sign players suited for a particular style, scout better and now the new bombshell, sign Haaland, Nkunku, Gvardiol. Top secret stuff there from Ralf.

What's funny is people crying we didn't sign Zakaria but then upset that we're going for Rabiot. Under Ralf we would have just got 2nd rate players from the Bundesliga.

To add to that he wasn't a pleasant man at all, certainly not the type you'd like to work with. He lied at points and manipulated the press and fans at the expense of players. He might be even worse than Jose at throwing people under the bus.

 

[Rightnr]

The worship some on here have for Ralf surpasses any love I've ever seen for Fergie.

Quite obvious a few on here already despise EtH for not wanting anything to do with Ralf and have been itching to stick the knife in and took the very first opportunity they got.

All Ralf did outside of his horrendous coaching and man management was say the most obvious things that anyone could. Sign young and hungry players, sign players suited for a particular style, scout better and now the new bombshell, sign Haaland, Nkunku, Gvardiol. Top secret stuff there from Ralf.

What's funny is people crying we didn't sign Zakaria but then upset that we're going for Rabiot. Under Ralf we would have just got 2nd rate players from the Bundesliga.

To add to that he wasn't a pleasant man at all, certainly not the type you'd like to work with. He lied at points and manipulated the press and fans at the expense of players. He might be even worse than Jose at throwing people under the bus.

You should try your hand at science fiction, seeing as how you've just made up everything in that whole post.

 

[RedDevilFan01]

No, just no. Those quotes simply don't support what you are saying at all here mate. There was never any stipulation the likes of which you are suggesting. It doesn't even make any sense, why would Ralf only become a consultant in the event we didn't hire a long term manager?

So in the scenario you are suggesting we don't hire a permanent manager and Ralf becomes a consultant on a 2 year deal yes? So who would be the first team manager in that case, no one?

What?

To correct this area, I meant the club will continue with Ralf until they search for a long-term manager which is how I see this. It's obvious, that a new long-term manager will have a different approach and might not go with Ralf.

First, they have written -
" Following this period, Ralf and the club have agreed that he will continue in a consultancy role for a further two years. "
Next, they have written -
“Everyone at the club is looking forward to working with him during the season ahead, and then for a further two years in his advisory role.”

There is something to understand this point, sir. Consultant and Advisory are two different terms and meanings. Indeed, An advisory role is more of long-term involvement with the club whereas a consultant is something specific to the project generally short-term (which I believe, until the end of the season 2021/22)

Like I said before, Ralf had a conversation with Ten hag and later he decided not to be a part of his plan and moved on with a different opportunity or Ten Hag didn't want to work with Ralf. Hard to say, they must have had a detailed conversation after they decided to move apart and the club knows that. It's a little confusing though. That's it!

 

[justsomebloke]

Is there really a lot to discuss concerning RRs role, in the narrow sense? He was hired as interim Manager, and the way that went there was clearly no reason why his role should be made permanent. His taking over as Austria manager perfectly explains why the consultancy was scrapped by mutual consent. There was never any reason to assume he'd move into a role as ETHs assistant, or still less as DoF, given that Murtough was freshly appointed to that role.

What however is very worth discussing is what the club has done with the assessment he made of the needs of the team and the club in a wider sense. Because it seems pretty clear the upper management and the board essentially turned their back on that. And I think that should raise eyebrows, partly because I think RR was probably right and partly because if they weren't prepared to hear that and take it on board, they made a bad mistake in hiring him. That we now have a new manager is not a good enough reason to just ignore it. It's on Murtough and upper management to address most of the issues RR raised.

Anyway, pretty much the worst thing you can do is exactly the thing we did - stink up the place for half a year with a manager who's devastatingly frank about why that happened and what that means, and then carry on as if we're already basically functional and competitive and just need to add some pieces. If Murtough and the board wanted to go in this direction, then they had to bring in someone who could patch us through the rest of the season as impressively as possible, plus throw money at immediate problems in the January window. But if they want to let it all hang out and make it visible where we really are, then they have to act on it. Otherwise it destroys your credibility.

Which might be why everyone from Timo fecking Werner to Darwin Nunez and Frenkie de Jong are currently turning us down. Just a year ago, CR had no qualms signing and Raphael Varane made it clear that United was the only destination he wanted to go to. Face it, right now we're mud, in a way we haven't been in a loooong time.

 

[RedPed]

The worship some on here have for Ralf surpasses any love I've ever seen for Fergie.

Quite obvious a few on here already despise EtH for not wanting anything to do with Ralf and have been itching to stick the knife in and took the very first opportunity they got.

All Ralf did outside of his horrendous coaching and man management was say the most obvious things that anyone could. Sign young and hungry players, sign players suited for a particular style, scout better and now the new bombshell, sign Haaland, Nkunku, Gvardiol. Top secret stuff there from Ralf.

What's funny is people crying we didn't sign Zakaria but then upset that we're going for Rabiot. Under Ralf we would have just got 2nd rate players from the Bundesliga.

To add to that he wasn't a pleasant man at all, certainly not the type you'd like to work with. He lied at points and manipulated the press and fans at the expense of players. He might be even worse than Jose at throwing people under the bus.

The Rangnites are quite possibly the strangest group of fans I've ever come across in any club, seriously. Considering the minimal impact he had, overseeing the worst United period in PL history, their devotion to him makes no sense at all....all because of some fictional consultancy role that he never even completed. It really is baffling but it's pretty hilarious watching them lose their shit in here on a daily basis every time they see his name being besmirched.

The manner in which they write off his managerial time here as inconsequential all because of the bigger picture of 'rebuilding the club' (they really love that phrase) is ridiculous. Seriously, which sane organisation would entrust a part-time CONSULTANT with the task of rebuilding their empire?

He was never ever going to do anything more than just join a few Teams meetings and add his own FWIWs. Even after the last ball of the season had been kicked, no-one knew what that consultancy role entailed and the fact that he buggered off to Austria at the first opportunity as MANAGER (because that's what he does) tells you all you need to know.

I just think it's hilarious. But the Rangnites are taking it sooo personally.

 

[#07]

Is there really a lot to discuss concerning RRs role, in the narrow sense? He was hired as interim Manager, and the way that went there was clearly no reason why his role should be made permanent. His taking over as Austria manager perfectly explains why the consultancy was scrapped by mutual consent. There was never any reason to assume he'd move into a role as ETHs assistant, or still less as DoF, given that Murtough was freshly appointed to that role.

What however is very worth discussing is what the club has done with the assessment he made of the needs of the team and the club in a wider sense. Because it seems pretty clear the upper management and the board essentially turned their back on that. And I think that should raise eyebrows, partly because I think RR was probably right and partly because if they weren't prepared to hear that and take it on board, they made a bad mistake in hiring him. That we now have a new manager is not a good enough reason to just ignore it. It's on Murtough and upper management to address most of the issues RR raised.

Anyway, pretty much the worst thing you can do is exactly the thing we did - stink up the place for half a year with a manager who's devastatingly frank about why that happened and what that means, and then carry on as if we're already basically functional and competitive and just need to add some pieces. If Murtough and the board wanted to go in this direction, then they had to bring in someone who could patch us through the rest of the season as impressively as possible, plus throw money at immediate problems in the January window. But if they want to let it all hang out and make it visible where we really are, then they have to act on it. Otherwise it destroys your credibility.

Which might be why everyone from Timo fecking Werner to Darwin Nunez and Frenkie de Jong are currently turning us down. Just a year ago, CR had no qualms signing and Raphael Varane made it clear that United was the only destination he wanted to go to. Face it, right now we're mud, in a way we haven't been in a loooong time.

I agree with this.

You cannot defend what Rangnick did as head coach. You can suggest reasons why it all went to pot. However, you cannot argue with the table. It doesn't lie. Results are results.

However, to dismiss Rangnick's assessments and advice because his coaching flopped is shortsighted. For all the reasons you've outlined it makes the club look confused, directionless and lacking in the understanding needed to make level headed assessments of football matters.

 

[stevoc]

I agree with this.

You cannot defend what Rangnick did as head coach. You can suggest reasons why it all went to pot. However, you cannot argue with the table. It doesn't lie. Results are results.

However, to dismiss Rangnick's assessments and advice because his coaching flopped is shortsighted. For all the reasons you've outlined it makes the club look confused, directionless and lacking in the understanding needed to make level headed assessments of football matters.

Was it really part of his job in his first 6 months at the club to officially make assessments and compile dossiers that would be presented to the club/ETH though?

I'd imagine if he had taken up his consultancy role then yes the club would have leaned on his advice based on his time as Interim manager. But he never got the chance to take up the role so I don't see how his opinions are being dismissed, especially as we don't even know if he presented anything to the club. Rangnick himself has said he wasn't asked to compile dossiers on the squad etc.

 

[#07]

Was it really part of his job in his first 6 months at the club to officially make assessments and compile dossiers that would be presented to the club/ETH though?

I'd imagine if he had taken up his consultancy role then yes the club would have leaned on his advice based on his time as Interim manager. But he never got the chance to take up the role so I don't see how his opinions are being dismissed, especially as we don't even know if he presented anything to the club. Rangnick himself has said he wasn't asked to compile dossiers on the squad etc.

To some extent that's not relevant.

The senior management of any company are paid for their judgement. Sometimes people will make ideas that are not strictly within their remit. However, good business leaders will take note of solid suggestions. Regardless of where they come from.

If you employ someone who has a stellar rep as a Football Director, even if he's not employed as a Football Director, it would seem sensible to listen to him on issues of squad construction. Even if that isn't technically within his job description. You can take the computer says 'no' approach. Of course. However, to me, that would be unwise. That kind of strictly, hierarchical approach to input does not strike me as something that will help any business flourish.