Genius. How many of those were actually available to buy?
This whole eye for talent thing. Literally any fan with half a brain cell knows about these players.
Ralf Rangnick's consultancy role has been scrapped
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Genius. How many of those were actually available to buy?
This whole eye for talent thing. Literally any fan with half a brain cell knows about these players.
It's a bit like when Peter Kenyon went to Chelsea and apparently took the "Utd shopping list" with him. When in fact those players were being tracked by all the top teams, Chelsea all of a sudden could just blow everyone else out of the water.
He clearly was sacked though otherwise he'd still be here in his consultancy role.
We've hit peak ridiculousness in here when we now actually have people trying to argue that the club didn't dispense of the services of Ralf Rangnick as a consultant even though he left the club before the job began.
He signed a 2 year deal to be a consultant. The club confirmed this, Ralf himself confirmed this. Even after taking the Austria job he'd said he was still going to be a consultant and looking forward to the role.
No idea why some people are struggling with the fact he was clearly sacked. Even most of Ralf's biggest fans in here have spent the last few pages bemoaning the clubs decision to get rid of him.
He was going to be a consultant, not a full time Football Director, so I think it's pretty important to talk about the reality. Very much a part-time one. If you start off from the wrong premise it makes it look more ridiculous than it actually is.
If he was going to be "reshaping the club" you would lay on a position for him that actually matters. It's ridiculous to think you're going to play this pivotal role, reformulating one of the biggest clubs in the world in such a role. I think you have to be across every detail and working with the coaches and recruitment team on a daily basis to understand what we need and what is out there.
The fact he was not offered such a position suggests to me they were just buttering him up because it was a condition of him accepting the role, or perhaps they never actually intended for him to be this technical director like figure. All he was going to be is a voice, but by no means more significant than the incoming manager, or the wider recruitment department.
He then gets offered a really comfy full time gig and takes it, which is to be expected, it's a "full time" role and maybe he lost a little credibility for his poor management. Maybe he even got sacked. Overall I don't think there is any terrible mismanagement by the club, it's a good clean break for both.
He might given this list of players in winter to United, but there are several players he signed earlier for RB - like he was involved in Haaland's transfer to Salzburg, which makes him appear more far sighted.
However the whole story about RR keeps on amazing me. While he was always opinionated I can’t think of any other club he was at where he discussed so many internal issues in public. Probably thought United is beyond repair anyways and therefore was also happy to not do the consultant job.
And yet we are targetting likes of rabiot and arnautovic.
^^ so being sacked is the only way to get out of a work agreement? Really? I mean, lets leave it at that, there isn't much to win when discussing with someone who isn't even aware of what he doesn't know for sure. I checked with Wipipedia, not even they are talking about a sacking. If the club ended the work relationship, there must be some sort of compensation to Ralf, lets see if it pops up in the balance sheets at some point. The wiki article said that Ralf didn't enter the role because of the demands of his new job for Austria.
He clearly was sacked though otherwise he'd still be here in his consultancy role.
We've hit peak ridiculousness in here when we now actually have people trying to argue that the club didn't dispense of the services of Ralf Rangnick as a consultant even though he left the club before the job began.
He signed a 2 year deal to be a consultant. The club confirmed this, Ralf himself confirmed this. Even after taking the Austria job he'd said he was still going to be a consultant and looking forward to the role.
No idea why some people are struggling with the fact he was clearly sacked. Even most of Ralf's biggest fans in here have spent the last few pages bemoaning the clubs decision to get rid of him.
I was always under the impression that he thought people above were aware of the issues he laid out and therefor saw no problem with discussing things in public. I don't know every interview but didn't he mostly came out positive but well aware of the challenges ahead?
My suspicion is, and this seems to be borne out by reports that he fell out with Murtough during his time at United, Ralf knew he was going to be sacked relatively early on. If he really thought that there was a genuine role at United waiting for him, why even start talking to Austria about taking over? The Austria rumours started months before the season was over. There had to have been discussions going on from February time.
So, with no future at United, and nothing really to lose, I reckon Rangnick just started to let rip. You're right. He's been combustible but never so outspoken in the past. However, I'm guessing he felt that since people at United wouldn't listen he'd start preaching to the public instead.
For me, as I've said, the disappointing thing about Rangnick (besides the fact we came 6th and looked shocking) is that he's a World Class Football Director. Even if you think he's a shocking coach, you have to admit he knows how to build teams.
Rangnick was saying things, such as United need to identify young, hungry players on their first or second contracts for whom the club is a natural step up, that have all been dismissed. Seemingly just cos he didn't coach the team particularly well. Now we're after players like Rabiot who see United as a step down and want huge wages to consider us, cos we're not in the Champions League. Its just a repeat of the mistakes we've been making since Moyes. You had the man saying some sensible things but its all been thrown out of the window, which is mad to me. Cos, as he said himself, what he was saying is not rocket science. Much as it pains me to admit, its exactly what Liverpool did when they were assembling their current squad.
I can't help but feel, for all his failings last season in the dugout, Ten Hag and Murtough would've benefitted from having Rangnick to lean on for recruitment.
Because those players aren’t attainable for a club not in the Champions League. How is that difficult to understand.
Chelsea are resigned to getting rinsed for Fofana.... beacuse they can't get Gvardiol either. It's not as simple as identifying a player and then magically he'll come.
They themselves chose to scrap Rangnick's input completely.
The wiser thing surely would be to then invest in younger players who have the potential to become really good instead of purchasing another couple of players who both are highly inconsistent and have no potential for improvement anymore.
Can't say this comes as a surprise, but United going with the gang was always happening. Ralf had to much to say with to few at United ready to listen.
Yeah agreed. I’m not defending the clubs planning, but clearly this isn’t first choice plans either.
Ralf could have suggested some actually attainable targets for us to work on. Maybe he did behind the scenes and we refused, either way, I find that list of players five players a really strange way for the Ralf cult to defend him.
Maybe, but there's just not much evidence that any of this happened. It feels more like what certain United fans wish they could do to the people in charge of the club, rather than anything that actually happened.
The actual players United have signed this season are: Tyrell Malacia, Lisandro Martinez, Christian Eriksen. The first two fit the profile of young, hungry players on their first or second contracts. The third one was a free transfer. It is a huge exaggeration to say that this advice has been "dismissed."
As is well known, United have spent a lot of time chasing De Jong. Now, that is a player for whom United is a sideways step if not a step down. But United are a top club, and top club sign players like that all the time, often to great success. If an actual world class player (and not merely a potential one) is within reach, and they fit your plans, you go for it.
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Given that at Leipzig recruiting young and talent players was his main thing I'm almost certain he also had a list of those players. On top of that a lot of people until then actually thought we could still compete for players like Haaland and de Jong, it's only now dawning on many that this era has probably come to an end for now. I agree though getting him in as a manager was a big mistake imo, I said as much as we went for him that he should have been our DOF and not our manager.
He'd left Leipzig a few years ago though right? I'm not sure why he'd still have access to their scouting data? I'm guessing in football, scouting data is actually fairly confidential IP for each club because of how valuable players can be.
And if it's a few years old, it's worthless. Football moves on quick.
Only Halaand and Alvarez were 99% would choose City over United. For Nkunku, Chelsea, BM wanted him as well but he decided to sign new contract.
Dunno about the other two but club should at least fecking try? They're doing exactly that with FDJ, why stop there?
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Not only could most fans put that list together how many of them would want to come to United, ultimately that's the biggest question I surmise the club has a lot of talent on its scouting books but if the 1st move to an agent is rebuffed with a "we are not interested" it really doesn't matter what the names are and I think we are seeing this now anyways with our signings or lack there of
United's last season was very disappointing. 6th place just isn't good enough for the first of this squad. The football presented was poor and horrid to watch at times.
Therefore, many fans say Rangnick is a poor coach and was out of his depth. He never showed he can do it at a club of United's size.
However, what will the same fans say, if ETH who had a whole pre season to implement the basics of his system, will fall to produce a better brand of football, which will be also more successful? After all both coaches have pretty much the same players at their disposal.
Will ETH also been regarded as a poor coach out of his depth?
Therefore, many fans say Rangnick is a poor coach and was out of his depth. He never showed he can do it at a club of United's size.
However, what will the same fans say, if ETH who had a whole pre season to implement the basics of his system, will fall to produce a better brand of football, which will be also more successful? After all both coaches have pretty much the same players at their disposal.
Will ETH also been regarded as a poor coach out of his depth?
Well I'm sure he would have known how to get United access to similar databases, often enough clubs don't have their own but use one that is maintained by others who sell the data to clubs but sure a lot of the knowledge was probably back from these days, given that all the big players he recommended bar Alvarez have been players the Red Bull team scouted it's reasonable to suspect a lot of knowledge comes from his time at Leipzig but that doesn't mean he wouldn't have been able to establish a similar wealth of knowledge working for us.
I don't think it's necessary that he already then knew that there was no future at United for him. National team coach isn't really a full time job, and a consultancy role that would likely be limited to a few days a month isn't something stopping you from taking an NT job.
They played for Carrick, no? And looked up for it in his first few games. But the more he kept moaning about them not being good enough, the less they seemed to give a shit.
There's literally no evidence supporting any of that. According to reports, the club primarily wanted him as interim, while RR was the one who insisted on the consultancy gig, and it was very much a part-time position. Which is understandable, given that we were asking him to leave a 3-year gig for only a few months as interim. And even if that wasn't the case, his role was clearly not supposed to be "club builder" as evident by the fact that he was meant to be a part-time consultant in a purely advisory role, and further underlined by the fact that the club didn't move on any of his suggested targets in January. When the club settled on EtH, who was (allegedly) not all that interested in RR's input, there really was no point in keeping him on. His role required the hierarchy to be willing to act on his advise, and since EtH apparently wasn't, having him show up to dispense unwanted advise would be a waste of everyone's time and the club's money.
Could he have done a good job getting the club back into shape? Maybe, but not in the role he would have had.
Ralf's recommendations were not acted on by the Glazers because it would have meant spending money they did not want to spend.
He clearly said the squad was not good enough.
The Glazers rationale would have been that a top manager like ten Hag can whip the squad into shape.
The pre-season must have given confirmation to their thoughts.
Then Brighton happened.
Now panic buys.
This is how our club is run.
He clearly said the squad was not good enough.
The Glazers rationale would have been that a top manager like ten Hag can whip the squad into shape.
The pre-season must have given confirmation to their thoughts.
Then Brighton happened.
Now panic buys.
This is how our club is run.
Stop talking out of your arse? Mind your language with me please.
moving on from that unnecessary rudeness, you bring up a good point about expectations. It sounds like you are saying the club made the appointment expecting a top 4 finish. I am not so sure and base my opinion on the pattern of decisions by the club such as the previous management scenario.
2018 Ole was appointed as interim manager in Dec with United sitting in 7th. That time as well I thought the season was a wash and we were just looking for some feel good factor to see the season out. Ole was simply not the caliber of even interim manager to get us 4th. And indeed, we finished 6th.
2021 Rangnick was appointed in December with United in 7th. Much the same way, I and many posters felt that hiring him was considering the season a wash. If the club wanted top 4, a proper manager should have been brought in immediately and in fact, Conte was begging for the job. Lo and behold Spurs signed him and they got it, a CL spot. That's what you need and get rewarded with signing a world class manager. Rangnick, like Ole has not been anything close to a WC manager in many years, if ever. He finished 6th.
If the club signed both our interim managers expecting top 4 they are even more incompetent than ever imagined. Giving the benefit of doubt and based on other decisions, I believe they were signed for a feel good factor and a concerted shift to more pressing /modern football philosophy, with Ole and Rangnick respectively.
Some are pining for the club to actually hire the right personale for the right job and Ralf fits that criteria. Instead we're stuck with novices who don't have the first clue on how to take the club forward. We used to throw money at signings trying to make it up as we go along. Seems like we're not even doing that anymore never mind having a plan a little more detailed than a fecking cultural reset.
If giving the choice who would you prefer as footballing director? Ralf or Murtough?
50 pages of discussion about an ex-Manager, is that a record on here?
Manchester United have agreed to pay Barcelona 75m for De Jong and have spent 72m on Malacia and Martinez. That would be almost 150m. It's quite a bit of money.
Yes, correct.
And like I've said before, it makes very little sense to hire someone as a "consultant" and make a big song and dance about it - only to, sort of...nah, forget about that (wasn't that important after all).
Perhaps some of us are blowing it out of proportion - but it's hardly unreasonable to ask what the feck they were thinking.
Hiring Ralf as an interim was a ridiculous move if they didn't value his input as a "consultant" more than they evidently did - I mean, how can you spin this any other way? As a "consultant" he did make some sense (he has experience as a team builder - clearly not at United's level, but he doesn't look like a random appointment as a "consultant" if the intention was to introduce more, say, progressive ideas). As a pure interim - as a "damage control" type of interim - he makes no sense at all.
He did have two recent interim spells with Leipzig successfully. Sure it's a club he knows well, but to suggest he's useless as a manager is a bit of a stretch. The club clearly felt he was the man to steady our ship and give the players some coaching. Otherwise, they would have retained Carrick and simply hired him for the backroom, if they really value his input that much.
That's you putting words in my mouth, where did I say that?
When the club hires someone in December on a 2 year Consultancy contract yet they're no longer employed by the club in any capacity 5 months later then obviously the club changed their mind and decided they didn't actually want him around for the next 2 years. You can call it what you want, a parting of ways, leaving by mutual consent, a sacking or whatever but it all amounts to the same thing.
Because they are weird...
Yup the buzzword/ phrase that was thrown about at the time was "Patterns of Play" and how there were none under Ole (Which was true, don't come at me because they were both shit).
RR was supposed to be the man who introduced a more structured approach due to the "Godfather of Geggenpressing" mythology.
There's loads of Posts (some from frequent posters on various RR threads)/ Articles and YouTube videos about how there was about to be an on pitch revolution at United from around the time he was announced.
Probably Ralf but on the same token I and I suspect everyone else on here have little to no idea how capable Murtagh actually is and if he will turn out to be a good DOF for us.
To be honest none of it makes sense in hindsight mate.
I lean towards there being little or no plan long term for Ralf's role beyond just getting him in as an experienced Interim to steady the ship. And as you say it was a ridiculous appointment.
Oh sweet summer child
Those are my thoughts as well. I think a lot of fans, when it turned out that Ralf was shit at managing, latched on to the idea that the real change would come when he stepped into his consultancy and invested a lot in that idea.
Hm - yes. But then again - no.
There really is absolutely nothing in Ralf's CV that would make him a plausible interim and nothing more for United.
The Ralf connection amounts to Murtough going on a research trip and observing his work as a DOF, a behind-the-scenes man (not as a coach) - and being impressed with him. Everyone thought he was hired mainly for what he could bring to the table long-term: of course, he wasn't considered a useless "manager" - and I'm not suggesting that he is - but the point is that his credentials as an actual "manager" was way down the list for those of us who thought the appointment made sense. And United did - clearly, blatantly - sell him as something more than an interim too.
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