Ralf Rangnick's consultancy role has been scrapped

[justsomebloke]

Was it really part of his job in his first 6 months at the club to officially make assessments and compile dossiers that would be presented to the club/ETH though?

I'd imagine if he had taken up his consultancy role then yes the club would have leaned on his advice based on his time as Interim manager. But he never got the chance to take up the role so I don't see how his opinions are being dismissed, especially as we don't even know if he presented anything to the club. Rangnick himself has said he wasn't asked to compile dossiers on the squad etc.

Misses the point. It doesn't matter how his job was defined because both by personal qualifications and as manager his views are obviously relevant, and also known. Just from public statements we and the whole world know RR thought there were fundamental problems with the squad and the club, which required forceful action. Obviously, he will have shared the same assessment internally in greater detail and clarity. The club clearly is not proceeding on the basis of sharing that assessment. Which means they are not taken seriously, because everyone thinks (correctly) that Ralf wasn't far off. And he's got the on-pitch awfulness to prove it.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

However, to dismiss Rangnick's assessments and advice because his coaching flopped is shortsighted. For all the reasons you've outlined it makes the club look confused, directionless and lacking in the understanding needed to make level headed assessments of football matters.

I think his assessments can be dismissed to some extent, based on how he assessed the squad he took over.
He clearly favored some players instead of others, and the ones he favored did a poor job.

 

[#07]

I think his assessments can be dismissed to some extent, based on how he assessed the squad he took over.
He clearly favored some players instead of others, and the ones he favored did a poor job.

I am not saying that the leadership of the club should treat Rangnick like he's Moses, coming down from the mountain with the word of God etched in stone.

What worries me is that the club seems to have just dismissed everything he said. There doesn't even appear to have been a critical analysis of what he said. Its basically been: 'He was a s-t coach. Lets ignore him and keep on doing what we've been doing.'

I struggle to believe that the targets we are now chasing are reflective of any kind of long-term strategic thinking, or will suit Ten Hag better than what Rangnick could've suggested. Rabiot is bullying us into a post tax wage of €7 million a year. When we could go out and pick up midfielders of equal quality, at a lower price and wage if we spent smart.

 

[El Jefe]

The Rangnites are quite possibly the strangest group of fans I've ever come across in any club, seriously. Considering the minimal impact he had, overseeing the worst United period in PL history, their devotion to him makes no sense at all....all because of some fictional consultancy role that he never even completed. It really is baffling but it's pretty hilarious watching them lose their shit in here on a daily basis every time they see his name being besmirched.

The manner in which they write off his managerial time here as inconsequential all because of the bigger picture of 'rebuilding the club' (they really love that phrase) is ridiculous. Seriously, which sane organisation would entrust a part-time CONSULTANT with the task of rebuilding their empire?

He was never ever going to do anything more than just join a few Teams meetings and add his own FWIWs. Even after the last ball of the season had been kicked, no-one knew what that consultancy role entailed and the fact that he buggered off to Austria at the first opportunity as MANAGER (because that's what he does) tells you all you need to know.

I just think it's hilarious. But the Rangnites are taking it sooo personally.

They are by far the most deluded and gullible set of the fanbase I've ever seen. Outside of his job here the last two positions of the greatest club builder and supremo DoF is to be the Director of Football at Lokomotiv Moscow and the head coach of the Austrian National team.

I got the LVG fans, the Jose fans and even the Ole boys even though they were crazy too but Rangnick leaving a legacy of fans is the most baffling thing in my 25+ years supporting the club. LVG and Jose were ex world class managers and Ole provided the single greatest moment for a majority of United fans so it all made sense. Rangnick left overseeing the worst half season we've had in a generation and sucked the life out of the club on and off the pitch. It truly was a dreadful reign.

Last season was so bad I thought people would be happy to feck him off from our history but no he's seen as a martyr to his blind witnesses. My hope is EtH performs very well with the squad we have so we can look to the future and leave the nasty stain of Rangnick in the past where it belongs.

 

[RedPed]

They are by far the most deluded and gullible set of the fanbase I've ever seen. Outside of his job here the last two positions of the greatest club builder and supremo DoF is to be the Director of Football at Lokomotiv Moscow and the head coach of the Austrian National team.

I got the LVG fans, the Jose fans and even the Ole boys even though they were crazy too but Rangnick leaving a legacy of fans is the most baffling thing in my 25+ years supporting the club. LVG and Jose were ex world class managers and Ole provided the single greatest moment for a majority of United fans so it all made sense. Rangnick left overseeing the worst half season we've had in a generation and sucked the life out of the club on and off the pitch. It truly was a dreadful reign.

Last season was so bad I thought people would be happy to feck him off from our history but no he's seen as a martyr to his blind witnesses. My hope is EtH performs very well with the squad we have so we can look to the future and leave the nasty stain of Rangnick in the past where it belongs.

Agreed! Apart from Moyes (and possibly Giggs), every other manager...even Carrick has given the United fans something to remember and has left their mark. But Wreck-It doesn't even have that to his name.

His followers continue to peddle the claims that he 'exposed' United and brought into the public domain what was broken and needed fixing....all because of a few press conferences. He did nothing of the sort. It's really mind boggling...but hilarious too.

 

[MadDogg]

Rangnick left overseeing the worst half season we've had in a generation and sucked the life out of the club on and off the pitch. It truly was a dreadful reign.

It's worth noting that Ralf's period in charge wasn't even the worst of that season. He had a superior points per game and goal differential than what Ole had before he got sacked. Indeed he was superior than Mourinho was the season he was sacked as well. The league results of all the managers we've had since Fergie in their final season (not counting the couple of games of Carrick and Giggs):

Rangnick 21/22
24 matches
37 points (1.54 points per game)
0 goal difference

Ole 21/22
12 matches
17 points (1.41 points per game)
-1 goal difference

Mourinho 18/19
17 matches
26 points (1.52 points per game)
0 goal difference

LVG
38 matches
66 points (1.73 points per game)
+14 goal difference

Moyes
34 matches
57 points (1.67 points per game)
+16 goal difference

Considering Moyes inherited the defending champions full of absolute winners (albeit on their last legs) and the other three built their teams themselves, I'd say all of them bar LVG were worse in their final seasons than Ralf was. Ralf had a terrible end to the season which makes it feel worse than it was, but before that he was actually doing fairly well (his first 12 games had 7 wins, 4 draws and 1 loss). Don't get me wrong, he obviously didn't do well. But how bad it actually was gets over-stated. Like I said, he wasn't even the worst of that season. Combine that with him taking over a dressing room that obviously had immense problems (thanks to the the previous guy who had done even worse), and I have some sympathy for him. It was bad, but there were things contributing to that that were completely out of his control.

 

[Tommy79]

It's worth noting that Ralf's period in charge wasn't even the worst of that season. He had a superior points per game and goal differential than what Ole had before he got sacked. Indeed he was superior than Mourinho was the season he was sacked as well. The league results of all the managers we've had since Fergie in their final season (not counting the couple of games of Carrick and Giggs):

Rangnick 21/22
24 matches
37 points (1.54 points per game)
0 goal difference

Ole 21/22
12 matches
17 points (1.41 points per game)
-1 goal difference

Mourinho 18/19
17 matches
26 points (1.52 points per game)
0 goal difference

LVG
38 matches
66 points (1.73 points per game)
+14 goal difference

Moyes
34 matches
57 points (1.67 points per game)
+16 goal difference

Right so you put ralf's the wreckers time here up against 4 managers when their reigns were at the worst, how about putting his time here up against their first 24 matches and let's see how "superior" he really was ?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Right so you put ralf's the wreckers time here up against 4 managers when their reigns were at the worst, how about putting his time here up against their first 24 matches and let's see how "superior" he really was ?

The Mourinho/Van Gaal/Moyes comparisons are unfair but can’t see a problem with the comparison to Ole’s final season. That’s the only comparison between two managers using the exact same squad of players. A squad that Ralf (unlike all the other managers whose final season stats are being compared) bears no blame at all for building.

 

[redshaw]

Is there really a lot to discuss concerning RRs role, in the narrow sense? He was hired as interim Manager, and the way that went there was clearly no reason why his role should be made permanent. His taking over as Austria manager perfectly explains why the consultancy was scrapped by mutual consent. There was never any reason to assume he'd move into a role as ETHs assistant, or still less as DoF, given that Murtough was freshly appointed to that role.

What however is very worth discussing is what the club has done with the assessment he made of the needs of the team and the club in a wider sense. Because it seems pretty clear the upper management and the board essentially turned their back on that. And I think that should raise eyebrows, partly because I think RR was probably right and partly because if they weren't prepared to hear that and take it on board, they made a bad mistake in hiring him. That we now have a new manager is not a good enough reason to just ignore it. It's on Murtough and upper management to address most of the issues RR raised.

Anyway, pretty much the worst thing you can do is exactly the thing we did - stink up the place for half a year with a manager who's devastatingly frank about why that happened and what that means, and then carry on as if we're already basically functional and competitive and just need to add some pieces. If Murtough and the board wanted to go in this direction, then they had to bring in someone who could patch us through the rest of the season as impressively as possible, plus throw money at immediate problems in the January window. But if they want to let it all hang out and make it visible where we really are, then they have to act on it. Otherwise it destroys your credibility.

Which might be why everyone from Timo fecking Werner to Darwin Nunez and Frenkie de Jong are currently turning us down. Just a year ago, CR had no qualms signing and Raphael Varane made it clear that United was the only destination he wanted to go to. Face it, right now we're mud, in a way we haven't been in a loooong time.

Pretty much sums up how I see it really.

Ultimately it was a bad for Murtough to hire him for this interim manager role and further damaged our image, yes some of the hardcore fans enjoyed his public views on the club but it backfired for me. Everything about it is sour, from him/players, the board and the fans back and forth.

I even said before he was let go ETH will want to assess everything for himself so it's pointless. We should have hired him as a DOF to work quietly in the background or left him alone. Clearly ETH needs support and a DOF similar to Ralf can work with managers to review players etc together while there fulltime.

It's just very typical from the club failing for the last 9 years that we hire a DOF to help gain top 4 and end up having no real worth in the team or the club listening to his views/assessments. I'm willing to give the club a chance to next summer but it doesn't seem like the club want to change too much.

Glazers need to make some top hires or we'll keep sliding away. The London clubs and Newcastle will edge us out overtime if we carry on the same.

 

[Greck]

An interim manager can't actually completely fail in 6 months, at worst they failed to keep afloat a ship that was already sinking. We are not going to condemn ETH if he doesn't succeed in only 6 months with the current squad. There's a reason we're panic buying and ready to rip it up.

But even if he failed as interim, so what? What does that even have to do with helpful recommendations that could have changed us from the present disaster course. Do these people even logic? Why does it matter he is overrated as a director when it still comes out to him being the best and most successful in the role at the club? He wouldn't have to be anything special to do that. If you're talking about an overrated resume anything you can say about Rangnick applies 100 fold to who we have. Why would one even go there? That's still the best resume at the club.

 

[Sandikan]

Pretty much sums up how I see it really.

Ultimately it was a bad for Murtough to hire him for this interim manager role and further damaged our image, yes some of the hardcore fans enjoyed his public views on the club but it backfired for me. Everything about it is sour, from him/players, the board and the fans back and forth.

I even said before he was let go ETH will want to assess everything for himself so it's pointless. We should have hired him as a DOF to work quietly in the background or left him alone. Clearly ETH needs support and a DOF similar to Ralf can work with managers to review players etc together while there fulltime.

It's just very typical from the club failing for the last 9 years that we hire a DOF to help gain top 4 and end up having no real worth in the team or the club listening to his views/assessments. I'm willing to give the club a chance to next summer but it doesn't seem like the club want to change too much.

Glazers need to make some top hires or we'll keep sliding away. The London clubs and Newcastle will edge us out overtime if we carry on the same.

I always wondered how this magical DOF would work.
What if the manager doesn't actually trust them, like with Rangnick.

Who has the overall say etc.

 

[MadDogg]

Right so you put ralf's the wreckers time here up against 4 managers when their reigns were at the worst, how about putting his time here up against their first 24 matches and let's see how "superior" he really was ?

I was responding directly to someone saying that Ralf's time was the worst half season we've had in a generation. In reality there have been two worse just in the last four seasons (including one in the very same season).

Obviously the others did do better overall, but they were also able to build their own teams and didn't come in to such a bad situation. Once again, I'm not saying Ralf's time wasn't bad. Just that people go overboard about how bad it actually was.

 

[#07]

I always wondered how this magical DOF would work.
What if the manager doesn't actually trust them, like with Rangnick.

Who has the overall say etc.

At most elite clubs the Director of Football has the final say, because he, unlike the head coach, is an executive level hire. Its expected that head coaches come and go but Directors of Football should get coaches and players that suit an overarching vision of how the team should play. Obviously, head coaches have a lot of input and the best head coaches have more than your average. However, even the best coaches don't have carte blanche. Otherwise Kane and Cucurella would be City players right now because Pep wanted them.

This kinda discussion about who is in charge just doesn't happen at clubs like Bayern Munich or Real Madrid. Its acknowledged that the head coach's job is to coach what he has to the best of his ability. For our purposes, its the same at Ajax. Overmars sat above Ten Hag in the structure and while they worked together on player profiles it was Overmars who was responsible for the signings, not Ten Hag. United are carrying out an interesting experiment in asking Ten Hag to effectively become his own head of recruitment.

One of the many things Rangnick said was that, at elite clubs, there are often a cadre of people responsible for this who support the head coach. He also said its not reflective of the head coach's quality if he doesn't succeed because these things are not in place. Again, that's been thrown out with the bathwater because he had a cak record in our dugout. Rather than people learning and thinking: 'Maybe Murtough needs a bigger operation either around him or supporting him to make this summer a real success?'

 

[redshaw]

I always wondered how this magical DOF would work.
What if the manager doesn't actually trust them, like with Rangnick.

Who has the overall say etc.

Never said magical DOF. I'm just referring to how many clubs do it. They work together and the coach has his input, his main job is to coach the team and not do it all himself.

 

[DSG]

It's worth noting that Ralf's period in charge wasn't even the worst of that season. He had a superior points per game and goal differential than what Ole had before he got sacked. Indeed he was superior than Mourinho was the season he was sacked as well. The league results of all the managers we've had since Fergie in their final season (not counting the couple of games of Carrick and Giggs):

Rangnick 21/22
24 matches
37 points (1.54 points per game)
0 goal difference

Ole 21/22
12 matches
17 points (1.41 points per game)
-1 goal difference

Mourinho 18/19
17 matches
26 points (1.52 points per game)
0 goal difference

LVG
38 matches
66 points (1.73 points per game)
+14 goal difference

Moyes
34 matches
57 points (1.67 points per game)
+16 goal difference

Considering Moyes inherited the defending champions full of absolute winners (albeit on their last legs) and the other three built their teams themselves, I'd say all of them bar LVG were worse in their final seasons than Ralf was. Ralf had a terrible end to the season which makes it feel worse than it was, but before that he was actually doing fairly well (his first 12 games had 7 wins, 4 draws and 1 loss). Don't get me wrong, he obviously didn't do well. But how bad it actually was gets over-stated. Like I said, he wasn't even the worst of that season. Combine that with him taking over a dressing room that obviously had immense problems (thanks to the the previous guy who had done even worse), and I have some sympathy for him. It was bad, but there were things contributing to that that were completely out of his control.

Are you joking?

‘Cannot believe people are still defending this fraud. Your numbers aren’t even right. He managed us for 29 matches. It’s well documented that he actually couldn’t prepare the squad without a fecking coach in Moscow — who was working for another team — providing video analysis, sometimes hours before the match. This is the same moron who thought it would be a great idea to start Diogo Dalot (comfortably our worst defender) out of position at LWB against possibly the best attacking right side in world football in Salah and TAA. Oh, but in training, they spent an hour working on a back 3.

Ralf Rangnick is comfortably the worst manager we’ve had in 50 years. I just don’t understand why the Ralf Cult can’t just admit they were wrong and move on.

 

[DSG]

I was responding directly to someone saying that Ralf's time was the worst half season we've had in a generation. In reality there have been two worse just in the last four seasons (including one in the very same season).

Obviously the others did do better overall, but they were also able to build their own teams and didn't come in to such a bad situation. Once again, I'm not saying Ralf's time wasn't bad. Just that people go overboard about how bad it actually was.

His managerial record was the worst since Frank O’Farrell. It wasn’t his team, but when you really dig into the lineups and tactics and the fact we were getting worse, it was a complete disaster.

I think the thing that is most disturbing isn’t Ralf himself. It’s that the Glazer Curse is getting stronger and more powerful. I’m really nervous that the club management is so bad that there isn’t a manager in world football that can turn us around.

 

[Acheron]

I always wondered how this magical DOF would work.
What if the manager doesn't actually trust them, like with Rangnick.

Who has the overall say etc.

Most succesful clubs operate this way, there's a structure and a group of people in charge of this decisions. The input from the manager is important but everyone involved needs to agree.

 

[NoLogo]

I always wondered how this magical DOF would work.
What if the manager doesn't actually trust them, like with Rangnick.

Who has the overall say etc.

DOF has the say, manager is out. If the DOF ends up falling out with all the mangers he is brining in, it's time to question his approach and maybe look for someone new. No one is saying a DOF is the solution to everything, and in the end his work needs to be evaluated like anyone else's work.

Ideally, a DOF will provide the overall philosophy that guides the recruitment of players and the manager to guarantee some continuity. Mainly to prevent what we are currently doing, rebuild under every manager anew, just to fire him 2 1/2 years later and start from scratch because the next manager has wildly different ideas how the team should play.

 

[MadDogg]

Are you joking?

‘Cannot believe people are still defending this fraud. Your numbers aren’t even right. He managed us for 29 matches. It’s well documented that he actually couldn’t prepare the squad without a fecking coach in Moscow — who was working for another team — providing video analysis, sometimes hours before the match. This is the same moron who thought it would be a great idea to start Diogo Dalot (comfortably our worst defender) out of position at LWB against possibly the best attacking right side in world football in Salah and TAA. Oh, but in training, they spent an hour working on a back 3.

Ralf Rangnick is comfortably the worst manager we’ve had in 50 years. I just don’t understand why the Ralf Cult can’t just admit they were wrong and move on.

I listed just the league matches for two reasons. One, it was much easier to work out the numbers; and two, obviously cup matches earlier in the season tend to be much easier than later in the season so they aren't a fair comparison for mid-season changes.

Rangnick walked into a broken dressing room that proceeded to have massive injury issues. Unless he was going to start throwing a bunch of kids in at a time that everything was completely going to shit, he actually couldn't make too many changes. Your example of Dalot against Liverpool is an example where it was either Dalot or Telles (arguably even worse and with less athleticism). In hindsight he made the wrong call, but there was reasoning behind it.

Martial was loaned out
Greenwood took himself out of the equation a day or two later after we loaned Martial out.
Cavani was on a holiday all season
Pogba was injured for over half of the games.
Shaw was injured for almost all of the games
Varane was constantly in and out of the team.

With Rashford, Sancho, Fred, McTominay and Maguire all missing multiple games as well. There were games where we basically had a goalkeeper, a couple of defenders and a bunch of kids on the bench.

He did a bad job. But Ole was on track to do even worse, and that was without the huge injury woes that we had towards the end of the season. I consider both Ole and most of the players more at fault than Ralf for what happened last season, but bear in mind that's an extremely low bar.

 

[LazyGoal]

Once again we're talking about his feckin interim period and not what he could offer the club.

Yes. As I said back then, he should have been sacked. It was all or nothing back then, and there was no reason to wait untill the end of the season for nothing.

 

[Foxbatt]

Ragnick as a manager at United was a failure. This thread is not about his managerial capabilities. It's about him building the football structure of a club.
People who are slating this aspect of him are the same people who were strong Ole in brigade. They are upset that he got the job and their golden boy got the sack and RR said we need to get a lot more new players. Players Ole indulged in.
The same people are completely ignoring the fact that ETH should have no say in who is the DOF or any consultant they hire. It's not his job or remit.

 

[Leftback99]

Why isn't Rangnick currently busy 'building a club' somewhere else if he's some kind of genius at it?

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Rangnick as a manager at United was a failure. This thread is not about his managerial capabilities. It's about him building the football structure of a club.
People who are slating this aspect of him are the same people who were strong Ole in brigade. They are upset that he got the job and their golden boy got the sack and RR said we need to get a lot more new players. Players Ole indulged in.
The same people are completely ignoring the fact that ETH should have no say in who is the DOF or any consultant they hire. It's not his job or remit.

Nah, the people dumping on Ralf are the people who shit on everyone. They were Ole out, LVG out, Jose out and Moyes never beens.

 

[JJ12]

Why isn't Rangnick currently busy 'building a club' somewhere else if he's some kind of genius at it?

I doubt he’s desperate for work now he’s got the Austrian job.

When the right job comes up for him he will take it on I’d imagine.

 

[Bosnian_fan]

The thing with Ralf is actually quite simple. Nobody would be bumping this thread if there were any signs of strategy being put in place by current hierarchy. But apart fom bringing in ten Hag, everything else has been shambles and it looks way worse than previous years.

We have chased de Jong whole summer, haven't stopped and yet we may fail to obtain him, we've attempted to sign Šeško only to get another slap in the face, Werner was also there for grabs and we only tried signing him once he was 99,99% Leipzig player. We've also gone through Ronaldo fiasco, where he has actually proven to be bigger than the club and has been fecking around God knows where whole summer, only to be reinstated into team without any consequences. Our solution to problems seems to be picking up washed-up shite like Arnautović and Rabiot. Juventus hasn't been as weak as now since recovering from Calciopoli, and their main weakness has been midfield. And part of that midfield, possibly the one to blame the most, has been Rabiot. Yet we are not only trying to sign him, but also letting him hold us to ransom with his crazy demands. And let's not even get started explaining Arnautović.

Things haven't changed for better, if there has been any change, it's only for the worse. That's why thread is constanly bumped, because United have been a prime example of a big club needing rebuild, and anyone with at least a bit of sense would have expected it and anticipated it. Instead, we have been given nothing, even if Martinez and Malacia turn out to be good signings, we have fundamentally changed nothing in this club. And with the state the club is currently in, there is at least equal chance for them to be misses.

Ralf Rangnick was advocating different approach as recently as couple of months ago, and as far as I can see, is the only person connected to the club in any way to have advocated for thing to be done differently.

- Bringing in ten players is common sense.
- Bringing in two strikers is common sense.
- Creating structure that has two or three men working along with manager in identifying and pursuing style of play and correspondent transfer targets is common sense.
- Parting ways with Ronaldo is common sense.
- Signing young, hungry players is common sense.
- Signing either one of Haaland, Nkunku, Laimer, Alvarez or Guardiol is common sense. And please let's not go into "Nobody wants to sign for United". Newcastle can easily attract players that have place in our first 11, not just squad, and they simply aren't more attractive option than United, it's impossible.

I don't think Rangnick is important at all as a person in context of what I've written. As some people have already suggested, you don't have to be an expert to identify all these things and name them. This list could have been lot longer btw, and I've, with my limited football knowledge, compiled it in 10 minutes. The point is, what we generally perceive as common sense, simply isn't present in Manchester United. Whoever has the influence, whether it's Glazers, Murtough, Arnold, apparently has made all the others think the same, and I don't see opinions opposing them anywhere. Rangnick has so far been the loudest opposition to the way the club is run, and has obviously been asking for some sort of structure to be put in place.

Sadly, I feel like anyone thinking we have turned a corner this summer is seriously deluding themselves. Without further young and talented signings or at least integrating some youth from the academy, this season would be the most shameful write-off in clubs history. I had already given up hope of returning to Champions League before the season even started, but I was hoping it would be for better, for building something up. Right now, absolutely nothing is being built. We are just going along with the flow.

 

[Dan_F]

They are by far the most deluded and gullible set of the fanbase I've ever seen. Outside of his job here the last two positions of the greatest club builder and supremo DoF is to be the Director of Football at Lokomotiv Moscow and the head coach of the Austrian National team.

I got the LVG fans, the Jose fans and even the Ole boys even though they were crazy too but Rangnick leaving a legacy of fans is the most baffling thing in my 25+ years supporting the club. LVG and Jose were ex world class managers and Ole provided the single greatest moment for a majority of United fans so it all made sense. Rangnick left overseeing the worst half season we've had in a generation and sucked the life out of the club on and off the pitch. It truly was a dreadful reign.

Last season was so bad I thought people would be happy to feck him off from our history but no he's seen as a martyr to his blind witnesses. My hope is EtH performs very well with the squad we have so we can look to the future and leave the nasty stain of Rangnick in the past where it belongs.

He recommended we sign Haaland in January though mate?

 

[DSG]

Rangnick as a manager at United was a failure. This thread is not about his managerial capabilities. It's about him building the football structure of a club.
People who are slating this aspect of him are the same people who were strong Ole in brigade. They are upset that he got the job and their golden boy got the sack and RR said we need to get a lot more new players. Players Ole indulged in.
The same people are completely ignoring the fact that ETH should have no say in who is the DOF or any consultant they hire. It's not his job or remit.

Which league winning sides has Ralf built again? In his 30+ years in football, how many major trophies has he won, either as a manager or DoF?

I was in camp that Ole needed to leave after the Liverpool debacle. I was actually looking forward to Ralf, but wow was I wrong. I would flip it on you and say that the Ole outers have generally tried to defend Ralf as a decent manager, to somehow justify Ole being sacked. The Ole sacking doesn’t need to be justified. 99% of the Caf agrees, it was time for him to go. He wasn’t good enough. All of that is true, but it is also true that Ralf was an absolute fraud, was an awful, awful manager and he actually created more problems than he solved. Oh, and he had the worst record for a United manager in 50 years.

 

[DSG]

He recommended we sign Haaland in January though mate?

?
This has to be sarcastic, right?

Do you really think Haaland would have considered a move to United in January when we looked so bad and he knew he could play for any club in the world?

He suggested we buy players at the tail end of the window that were way out of our league. It’s super easy to stand up up there and say,”we should have bought Messi, Mbappe, Benzema and Ruben Dias!”. Clown.

 

[Tommy79]

The Mourinho/Van Gaal/Moyes comparisons are unfair but can’t see a problem with the comparison to Ole’s final season. That’s the only comparison between two managers using the exact same squad of players. A squad that Ralf (unlike all the other managers whose final season stats are being compared) bears no blame at all for building.

Damn, thanks for pointing that out as brain fart there not thinking along those lines like you did.

I was responding directly to someone saying that Ralf's time was the worst half season we've had in a generation. In reality there have been two worse just in the last four seasons (including one in the very same season).

Obviously the others did do better overall, but they were also able to build their own teams and didn't come in to such a bad situation. Once again, I'm not saying Ralf's time wasn't bad. Just that people go overboard about how bad it actually was.

Ah sound, just thought given the details you had you may have had the stats I was talking about.

 

[Dan_F]

?
This has to be sarcastic, right?

Do you really think Haaland would have considered a move to United in January when we looked so bad and he knew he could play for any club in the world?

He suggested we buy players at the tail end of the window that were way out of our league. It’s super easy to stand up up there and say,”we should have bought Messi, Mbappe, Benzema and Ruben Dias!”. Clown.

Yeah it was, sorry

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

Right so you put ralf's the wreckers time here up against 4 managers when their reigns were at the worst, how about putting his time here up against their first 24 matches and let's see how "superior" he really was ?

Rangnick's 24 league games in charge: 37 points
Van Gaal's first 24 league games: 44 points
Mourinho: 45 points
Moyes: 40 points
Solskjaer: 44 points

Works pretty well as a ranking of all of them, actually! Rangnick and Moyes managing to stand out in the sea of mediocrity

 

[DSG]

I listed just the league matches for two reasons. One, it was much easier to work out the numbers; and two, obviously cup matches earlier in the season tend to be much easier than later in the season so they aren't a fair comparison for mid-season changes.

Rangnick walked into a broken dressing room that proceeded to have massive injury issues. Unless he was going to start throwing a bunch of kids in at a time that everything was completely going to shit, he actually couldn't make too many changes. Your example of Dalot against Liverpool is an example where it was either Dalot or Telles (arguably even worse and with less athleticism). In hindsight he made the wrong call, but there was reasoning behind it.

Martial was loaned out
Greenwood took himself out of the equation a day or two later after we loaned Martial out.
Cavani was on a holiday all season
Pogba was injured for over half of the games.
Shaw was injured for almost all of the games
Varane was constantly in and out of the team.

With Rashford, Sancho, Fred, McTominay and Maguire all missing multiple games as well. There were games where we basically had a goalkeeper, a couple of defenders and a bunch of kids on the bench.

He did a bad job. But Ole was on track to do even worse, and that was without the huge injury woes that we had towards the end of the season. I consider both Ole and most of the players more at fault than Ralf for what happened last season, but bear in mind that's an extremely low bar.

It’s easier to “work out the numbers” because they don’t look as bad as when you review his tenure in totality. By the numbers, Ralf was the worst manager we’ve had In 50 years, he was worse than Ole even just taking into account last season, and much worse when compared to Ole’s full tenure. Furthermore, Ralf had a cream puff schedule when he joined, but the longer he was with the team, the worse the performances became. By the end, forget the opponent, we were shit no matter who we played.

‘Your crap about injuries is exactly that, utter shite. Every manager has to deal with injuries. Pogba was injured constantly under Jose and Ole as well, same with Shaw, Rashford (under Ole), Cavani wasn’t fully available for Ole either.

The thing I hate about the Ralf cult is, when you say he’s a fraud, the Ragnites always compare him to Ole, which puts you in the difficult position of defending Ole. Well let me say one thing here. Ole is a club legend, and he always will be. He’s done more in football in one year than Ralf has in a lifetime. Of course, he was a top player who has won every trophy at the club level. As a manager, he was clearly not good enough to manage United. Fine. Ralf, on the other hand, was billed as some sort of tactical genius and club building guru who was going to change United. If he was so great, why isn’t he DoF at Real or PSG? Why was he toiling in Moscow? Why hasn’t he won any major trophies in two decades as a manager? You’re literally defending a bloke who, despite 4 decades in football, has done very, very little in terms of hardware.

 

[DSG]

Yeah it was, sorry

 

[RedPed]

Rangnick as a manager at United was a failure. This thread is not about his managerial capabilities. It's about him building the football structure of a club.
People who are slating this aspect of him are the same people who were strong Ole in brigade. They are upset that he got the job and their golden boy got the sack and RR said we need to get a lot more new players. Players Ole indulged in.
The same people are completely ignoring the fact that ETH should have no say in who is the DOF or any consultant they hire. It's not his job or remit.

Wow, the delusion is really strong in you people. He wasn't even brought in to do that.

 

[VidaRed]

 

[VidaRed]

Which league winning sides has Ralf built again? In his 30+ years in football, how many major trophies has he won, either as a manager or DoF?

I was in camp that Ole needed to leave after the Liverpool debacle. I was actually looking forward to Ralf, but wow was I wrong. I would flip it on you and say that the Ole outers have generally tried to defend Ralf as a decent manager, to somehow justify Ole being sacked. The Ole sacking doesn’t need to be justified. 99% of the Caf agrees, it was time for him to go. He wasn’t good enough. All of that is true, but it is also true that Ralf was an absolute fraud, was an awful, awful manager and he actually created more problems than he solved. Oh, and he had the worst record for a United manager in 50 years.

What sides has murtogh built and how many trophies has been won ?

 

[VidaRed]

It's worth noting that Ralf's period in charge wasn't even the worst of that season. He had a superior points per game and goal differential than what Ole had before he got sacked. Indeed he was superior than Mourinho was the season he was sacked as well. The league results of all the managers we've had since Fergie in their final season (not counting the couple of games of Carrick and Giggs):

Rangnick 21/22
24 matches
37 points (1.54 points per game)
0 goal difference

Ole 21/22
12 matches
17 points (1.41 points per game)
-1 goal difference

Mourinho 18/19
17 matches
26 points (1.52 points per game)
0 goal difference

LVG
38 matches
66 points (1.73 points per game)
+14 goal difference

Moyes
34 matches
57 points (1.67 points per game)
+16 goal difference

Considering Moyes inherited the defending champions full of absolute winners (albeit on their last legs) and the other three built their teams themselves, I'd say all of them bar LVG were worse in their final seasons than Ralf was. Ralf had a terrible end to the season which makes it feel worse than it was, but before that he was actually doing fairly well (his first 12 games had 7 wins, 4 draws and 1 loss). Don't get me wrong, he obviously didn't do well. But how bad it actually was gets over-stated. Like I said, he wasn't even the worst of that season. Combine that with him taking over a dressing room that obviously had immense problems (thanks to the the previous guy who had done even worse), and I have some sympathy for him. It was bad, but there were things contributing to that that were completely out of his control.

I listed just the league matches for two reasons. One, it was much easier to work out the numbers; and two, obviously cup matches earlier in the season tend to be much easier than later in the season so they aren't a fair comparison for mid-season changes.

Rangnick walked into a broken dressing room that proceeded to have massive injury issues. Unless he was going to start throwing a bunch of kids in at a time that everything was completely going to shit, he actually couldn't make too many changes. Your example of Dalot against Liverpool is an example where it was either Dalot or Telles (arguably even worse and with less athleticism). In hindsight he made the wrong call, but there was reasoning behind it.

Martial was loaned out
Greenwood took himself out of the equation a day or two later after we loaned Martial out.
Cavani was on a holiday all season
Pogba was injured for over half of the games.
Shaw was injured for almost all of the games
Varane was constantly in and out of the team.

With Rashford, Sancho, Fred, McTominay and Maguire all missing multiple games as well. There were games where we basically had a goalkeeper, a couple of defenders and a bunch of kids on the bench.

He did a bad job. But Ole was on track to do even worse, and that was without the huge injury woes that we had towards the end of the season. I consider both Ole and most of the players more at fault than Ralf for what happened last season, but bear in mind that's an extremely low bar.

Too much nuance to handle for those frothing with hate towards rangnick.

The questions that need to be answered but are instead being ignored are:
-Did rangnick build the team ? No.
-Did rangnick get to spend a dime ? No.
-Did rangnick get a preseason ? No.
-Did rangnick inherit an already fractured team with zero morale and confidence ? Yes.
-Was rangnick undermined by the players and did some of the players already check out months before the season finish ? Yes.
-Was rangnick responsible for the mess in the first place ? No.

Rangnick failed to clear the mess, he did not create the mess to begin with. However, everyone else got a clean pass and rangnick gets thrown under the bus by the players, then the board and finally by some of the fans. All the players recommended by rangnick would have strengthened us, and are much better prospects than the dross we're running after now because of the board fecking up the transfer window again and panicking.

I bet we don't make top 4 with the same squad even with ten hag at the helm. And no it won't be ten hag's fault either, it would be the board's fault and the players.

 

[mu4c_20le]

The questions that need to be answered but are instead being ignored are:
-Did rangnick build the team ? No.
-Did rangnick get to spend a dime ? No.
-Did rangnick get a preseason ? No.

So...... like any other interim manager in the world?

 

[weetee]

So...... like any other interim manager in the world?

Guess the question should rather be: who hires Ragnick for an interim job?

 

[VidaRed]

So...... like any other interim manager in the world?

Indeed, his only failure was that he unable to put the fire out.

The people who started the fire are still here calling the shots while the interim gets all the blame and the fans lap it up.