Ralf Rangnick's consultancy role has been scrapped

[Red Dreams]

Manchester United have agreed to pay Barcelona 75m for De Jong and have spent 72m on Malacia and Martinez. That would be almost 150m. It's quite a bit of money.

We have a squad that was not good enough to win the title for a long time.
What happens when corners are cut each season.
This is a football club and should have been run as such.
Not even talking about the state of our stadium yet.

Now we have to spend to bring the squad up to standard.

 

[stevoc]

Those are my thoughts as well. I think a lot of fans, when it turned out that Ralf was shit at managing, latched on to the idea that the real change would come when he stepped into his consultancy and invested a lot in that idea.

Big time and I understand it.

Most of the fan fictions about assessments and the bigger picture on here turned out to be nonsense though.

 

[NZT-One]

That's you putting words in my mouth, where did I say that?

When the club hires someone in December on a 2 year Consultancy contract yet they're no longer employed by the club in any capacity 5 months later then obviously the club changed their mind and decided they didn't actually want him around for the next 2 years. You can call it what you want, a parting of ways, leaving by mutual consent, a sacking or whatever but it all amounts to the same thing.

Ok, so to get this straight:
- you called it a sacking at least two times
- you denied calling it a sacking
- then you claimed it must have been a sacking because he isn't here anymore and he didn't do a good job
- you end with saying it doesn't matter if it is a sacking or something else because all what matters is he is gone

Which is hardly debatable isn't it? If you would have started with that, nobody would have started any argument.

Probably Ralf but on the same token I and I suspect everyone else on here have little to no idea how capable Murtagh actually is and if he will turn out to be a good DOF for us.

A valid take but, to me, it doesn't really line up with the rest of your stance. You are ready to diminish Ralfs achievements in his career but you aren't sure, how good of a DOF Murtough will be for us. I mean, he is around since quite a while. He has at least overseen this years transfer business, most likely at least the last two as well. He gets the benefit of the doubt while you are skeptical about Ralf.

I mean its fine if you don't like him. There doesn't have to be a reason for it.

 

[stevoc]

Ok, so to get this straight:
- you called it a sacking at least two times - Yes
- you denied calling it a sacking - No
- then you claimed it must have been a sacking because he isn't here anymore and he didn't do a good job - Yes on the first part the 2nd part is hardly debatable.
- you end with saying it doesn't matter if it is a sacking or something else because all what matters is he is gone - That's not really what I said.

Which is hardly debatable isn't it? If you would have started with that, nobody would have started any argument.

What the feck are you talking about now?

You've made most of that up.

A valid take but, to me, it doesn't really line up with the rest of your stance. You are ready to diminish Ralfs achievements in his career but you aren't sure, how good of a DOF Murtough will be for us. I mean, he is around since quite a while. He has at least overseen this years transfer business, most likely at least the last two as well. He gets the benefit of the doubt while you are skeptical about Ralf.

I mean its fine if you don't like him. There doesn't have to be a reason for it.

Again what are you on about?

Is the heat getting to you mate?

 

[clarkydaz]

Did Ralf ever say anything about our scouting department? It's a bit shit too isn't it?

i remember a headline he was demanding to know why we didnt have any reports on the best upcoming player in Germany/Austria or something.

 

[NZT-One]

You calling it a sacking:

I agree they could and probably should have done but obviously a decision was made to sack him. What prompted that decision I don't know but personally I suspect Ten Hag wasn't keen on working with him.

The likely explanation in my opinion, there were quite a few reports a few months back when Ralf was sacked that the types of players he was recommending didn't gel with what Ten Hag wanted.

You denying calling it a sacking

I never said he was sacked from the managers position.

You being back calling it a sacking

He clearly was sacked though otherwise he'd still be here in his consultancy role.

We've hit peak ridiculousness in here when we now actually have people trying to argue that the club didn't dispense of the services of Ralf Rangnick as a consultant even though he left the club before the job began.

He signed a 2 year deal to be a consultant. The club confirmed this, Ralf himself confirmed this. Even after taking the Austria job he'd said he was still going to be a consultant and looking forward to the role.

No idea why some people are struggling with the fact he was clearly sacked. Even most of Ralf's biggest fans in here have spent the last few pages bemoaning the clubs decision to get rid of him.

You saying it doesn't matter how to phrase it

That's you putting words in my mouth, where did I say that?

When the club hires someone in December on a 2 year Consultancy contract yet they're no longer employed by the club in any capacity 5 months later then obviously the club changed their mind and decided they didn't actually want him around for the next 2 years. You can call it what you want, a parting of ways, leaving by mutual consent, a sacking or whatever but it all amounts to the same thing.

I'll give you the other point, might have mixed you with another poster. My apologies. Maybe the heat is getting to both of us

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

There really is absolutely nothing in Ralf's CV that would make him a plausible interim and nothing more for United.

The Ralf connection amounts to Murtough going on a research trip and observing his work as a DOF, a behind-the-scenes man (not as a coach) - and being impressed with him. Everyone thought he was hired mainly for what he could bring to the table long-term: of course, he wasn't considered a useless "manager" - and I'm not suggesting that he is - but the point is that his credentials as an actual "manager" was way down the list for those of us who thought the appointment made sense. And United did - clearly, blatantly - sell him as something more than an interim too.

The problem for United is that they cannot hire any of the typical profiles for an interim manager.

Profile 1: former manager of the club. Can't do this because there was only one manager for almost three decades, so there just aren't any.

Profile 2: former player of the club. Can't really do this because the manager they'd replace was a former player of the club, in fact a former interim manager. So it's unclear whether it'd make any difference.

Without those two profiles, I think you mostly have these options:

Option 1: find a manager you have no connection to, who, for some reason, won't want the full time job (or will accept not having it). This is not a great field to pick from, they'll all have flaws.

Option 2: don't hire an interim manager and just hire an actual manager. If you don't like the job they are doing, fire them.

If you commit to option 1, Rangnick is a reasonable choice. He has experience in management but won't want the job full-time because he mostly works behind the scenes now. Personally I think option 2 is better. Just hire a manager. If you don't like the job they're doing, fire them. At the time of Rangnick's hire, people here were mostly in favor of option 1, because lots of people already wanted Ten Hag as manager and knew he'd be unavailable until this season. They did not want to hire Valverde or whoever and waste time on that.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Probably Ralf but on the same token I and I suspect everyone else on here have little to no idea how capable Murtagh actually is and if he will turn out to be a good DOF for us.

Whereas we do know that Ralf has all the credentials that we're wondering if Murtough has but fair point.

Those are my thoughts as well. I think a lot of fans, when it turned out that Ralf was shit at managing, latched on to the idea that the real change would come when he stepped into his consultancy and invested a lot in that idea.

No they didn't. A few years ago when it was first rumoured that we were looking for a DOF many names were being thrown about and if I'm remembering correctly the stand out option was Rangnick with names like Monchi and Paul mitchell being thrown into the mix as well. Nothing to do with latching on to an idea but following through with the initial analysis.

 

[Sandikan]

Is it time for revisionism yet, and claim this guy was actually spot on about everything and should have been kept on?
Or does that take place after the next defeat?

 

[The Mitcher]

Maybe he shouldn't have gone for the Austria job if he wanted to be a consultant here, and put up a better performance as manager. Why are his fanboys continuing to moan about him no longer being here when it was he himself that put him out of it to begin with?

 

[stevoc]

You calling it a sacking:



You denying calling it a sacking


You being back calling it a sacking


You saying it doesn't matter how to phrase it


I'll give you the other point, might have mixed you with another poster. My apologies. Maybe the heat is getting to both of us

Yes no worries mate the heat probably is getting to us both its brutal. And I can see now where the confusion has arisen from. What meant by my post below is he wasn't sacked from his position as manager he completed that job as the season was over.

I never said he was sacked from the managers position.

I'm saying the club sacked him as a consultant.

 

[Joseunited]

Is it time for revisionism yet, and claim this guy was actually spot on about everything and should have been kept on?
Or does that take place after the next defeat?

He had 1st hand experiance of how bad things were/going to get and made the brave decision to tell it as it is.
Someone didn't like it and turfed him out the club.He was never going to be kept on after that.

 

[Majima]

i remember a headline he was demanding to know why we didnt have any reports on the best upcoming player in Germany/Austria or something.

It was Nkunku. When Rangnick first arrived, he was reviewing our upcoming transfer plans, and asked for our reports on him. But was told there was zero reports on him & that he wasn't being considered at all which shocked him.

In an interview with Stretford Paddock podcast,

Ogden said: "Rangnick asked the scouting team what reports they had on Christopher Nkunku.

"They shook their head.

"Rangnick was like: 'Come on, this guy's the best young player in Germany right now, going to play for France soon, he's scoring goals from midfield.

"'Nkunku is a player everyone should know about.'"

Ogden added: "He wasn't someone Manchester United were actively looking at.

"That would set alarm bells ringing for me, that Man Utd aren't looking at the best young player in the Bundesliga."

Rangnick set the wheels in motion and started inquiring about Nkunku.

Mark Ogden, ESPN FC, (14 Feb, 2022).

Manchester United have added Christopher Nkunku to their list of summer targets after interim manager Ralf Rangnick urged the club to step up their interest in the RB Leipzig midfielder, sources told ESPN.

Nkunku, 24, has scored 19 goals and registered 13 assists in 31 appearances at Leipzig this season and is regarded by many as one of the best emerging players in the Bundesliga.

His performances in Germany since leaving Paris Saint-Germain in 2019 -- when he signed for Leipzig while Rangnick was the club's director of football -- have attracted the attention of Europe's leading clubs including Real Madrid, Liverpool, Manchester City and Arsenal.

But sources have said that United's interest has only emerged since Rangnick arrived at Old Trafford in December and reviewed the club's list of potential signings.

Sources have told ESPN that Nkunku, who has yet to make his senior debut for France after representing Les Bleus at under-age level, was not previously being considered by United's recruitment team as a possible signing, despite his reputation within Germany and across Europe.

However, United's scouts have been told to increase their focus on Nkunku, who can operate as an attacking midfielder and also as a wide player down both flanks.

 

[LazyGoal]

It would have been much better to sack 3 or 4 players and back Ole, than this Ralf nonsense.

 

[Halftrack]

No they didn't. A few years ago when it was first rumoured that we were looking for a DOF many names were being thrown about and if I'm remembering correctly the stand out option was Rangnick with names like Monchi and Paul mitchell being thrown into the mix as well. Nothing to do with latching on to an idea but following through with the initial analysis.

A few years ago isn't now, or even last December, when it was explicitly said that he was to be a consultant serving in an advisory role. Extrapolating that to him essentially becoming some kind of a DoF who was going to rebuild the club is pure fan fiction.

 

[Rightnr]

It would have been much better to sack 3 or 4 players and back Ole, than this Ralf nonsense.

Absolutely ludicrous suggestion

 

[LazyGoal]

Absolutely ludicrous suggestion

You think we would be in a worse postion now?

 

[Rightnr]

You think we would be in a worse postion now?

Yes because OGS was a wasteman but this is not what this thread is about.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

A few years ago isn't now, or even last December, when it was explicitly said that he was to be a consultant serving in an advisory role. Extrapolating that to him essentially becoming some kind of a DoF who was going to rebuild the club is pure fan fiction.

Absolutely nobody has said he would of be rebuilding the club but what they are saying is his experience could of went a long way in helping the people in charge make the transition as he actually has plenty of experience in that field. It's been mentioned for the millionth time but people still choose to ignore the actual context of what's being said to suit their own agenda.

 

[RacingClub]

Those are my thoughts as well. I think a lot of fans, when it turned out that Ralf was shit at managing, latched on to the idea that the real change would come when he stepped into his consultancy and invested a lot in that idea.

Usually the fans who convinced themselves of that were the ones who themselves were convinced that signing Ralf would mean that United were definitely going to finish in the top 4.

Once that didn't happen the focus was on how he was going to help restore order and the terrible performances etc were actually great because it exposed the players who weren't good enough.

 

[stevoc]

Whereas we do know that Ralf has all the credentials that we're wondering if Murtough has but fair point.

My point on Murtagh was more from the perspective of him actually being in the position already.

If it was a straight choice to hire one or the other then obviously Ralf is infinitely more qualified and experienced for the role.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Usually the fans who convinced themselves of that were the ones who themselves were convinced that signing Ralf would mean that United were definitely going to finish in the top 4.

Once that didn't happen the focus was on how he was going to help restore order and the terrible performances etc were actually great because it exposed the players who weren't good enough.

I think you'll find that most fans who knew about Rangnick were a lot more excited when his consultancy role was going to start far more than his interim period. No need to change facts to suit agendas.

My point on Murtagh was more from the perspective of him actually being in the position already.

If it was a straight choice to hire one or the other then obviously Ralf is infinitely more qualified and experienced for the role.

Then why all the hatred (not personally from you) towards Ralf and the people who are disappointed that he wasn't given a chance in a role he has plenty of experience in? Especially since everyone has acknowledged that his interim was a disaster?

It does get tiring hearing,
"feck off from my club Ralf."
"The fella is a nobody."
" He doesn't have a clue."
"He's a fraud."
"He's done nothing in his career."

Etc etc. The blinkers are well and trying on and there's no taking them off for some people.

 

[RacingClub]

I think you'll find that most fans who knew about Rangnick were a lot more excited when his consultancy role was going to start far more than his interim period. No need to change facts to suit agendas.

Is this you?

On title / top 4 race after RR appointment;

Man City at a canter, Pool and Chelsea fighting for 2nd, 3rd with us a comfortable 4th.

How optimistic are you for the rest of the season after RRs appointment;

As it stands at the moment we're only 3 points off 4th place with 23 games left to play. With the squad we have and hopefully a manager who can get them ticking I can't see anyway were not getting top 4. Top 4 is the bare minimum I expect from this season.

Did I change facts?

What is my agenda?

 

[LazyGoal]

Yes because OGS was a wasteman but this is not what this thread is about.

What wasteman? Anyhow, ageed, its off topic.

Going forward I think the manager should be manager.

 

[LazyGoal]

Etc etc. The blinkers are well and trying on and there's no taking them off for some people.

Anyone who play’s 4-2-2-2 with these players has lost all credibility.

 

[Boycott]

I think the situation with Rangnick is not worth debating for too long. It seems that Ten Hag did not want to work with him which is why the role was scrapped.

I think Rangnick as a manager was hindered by two things. Number one is that the whole world knew from day one that he was only ever going to be a stop gap so there was no extra motivation from players to get in his good books knowing a new man would be in charge in the summer. Number two is that several players contracts were running out and they were clearly counting down the days. It was a dysfunctional broken dressing room which no one is going to fix in six months. However I do think his lack of youth integration was a mark against him because even if the results were the same if he had used more academy players and phased them in that could have been a legacy move but he largely stuck to the same group of first team players. And for a guy who had all the answers in the press conferences it was not as if he was telling things no one ever knew before.

I'm not going to say he is a chancer because he clearly has done good work elsewhere and may do some good work in the future but his time at this club was in the end a total waste of time for both parties.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Absolutely nobody has said he would of be rebuilding the club but what they are saying is his experience could of went a long way in helping the people in charge make the transition as he actually has plenty of experience in that field.

" He'll stay on as technical director or something for two seasons after the interim post. This is good."

"The only reason we must be giving him this deal is because we finally realise that if we are to modernise and become a serious football club again, we have to give some control over to actual footballing personalities."

" I'm happy we look to be shifting away from the 'manager' approach and going down the route of better structure of a DOF and first team coach."

"The best news in this is that in the next two years, he seems to have a de-facto DoF role (for the first team). "

These are all posts from the day Rangnick was appointed, that say or imply he's not simply "helping" people in charge but taking a lead role in building the club.

Then, later in the thread, I picked a random point (April, when most people were off the Ralfwagon) and found this:

" Ralf was never brought in to desperately steer this lot to top four, it would have been a nice bonus, of course.. but he’s here to look at the club as a whole, work with the team directly and assess everything with absolutely no bias.. then report back to the long term manager and move upstairs where he can make real lasting changes to the structure."

It is simply not true that "absolutely nobody" said these things. A lot of people thought he was United's new DoF in spirit.

 

[RacingClub]

" He'll stay on as technical director or something for two seasons after the interim post. This is good."

"The only reason we must be giving him this deal is because we finally realise that if we are to modernise and become a serious football club again, we have to give some control over to actual footballing personalities."

" I'm happy we look to be shifting away from the 'manager' approach and going down the route of better structure of a DOF and first team coach."

"The best news in this is that in the next two years, he seems to have a de-facto DoF role (for the first team). "

These are all posts from the day Rangnick was appointed, that say or imply he's not simply "helping" people in charge but taking a lead role in building the club.

Then, later in the thread, I picked a random point (April, when most people were off the Ralfwagon) and found this:

" Ralf was never brought in to desperately steer this lot to top four, it would have been a nice bonus, of course.. but he’s here to look at the club as a whole, work with the team directly and assess everything with absolutely no bias.. then report back to the long term manager and move upstairs where he can make real lasting changes to the structure."

It is simply not true that "absolutely nobody" said these things. A lot of people thought he was United's new DoF in spirit.

The club have been clear from the start on what Ralfs role would be at the club regardless if we get top 4 or not. The only thing that would change would be if Ralf suddenly does a Tutchel and wins the CL or gets comfortable top 4 playing good football but as this isn't likely he was always going to be moved upstairs.

You say he wasn't brought in to rebuild anything so why exactly was he brought in? He has experience above and beyond on building clubs. It's his strong suit so why would the club not use this experience? At long last we seem to be putting a structure in place to take us into the 21st century and Ralf will be part of that structure. It's not that hard to understand the reason Ralf was primarily brought in and that reason wasn't to win us titles.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Is this you?





Did I change facts?

What is my agenda?

Yes thats me. Notice I said hopefully the new manager can get them ticking? I really believed that until it became obvious the the club was full off toxic, gutless, cowardly players and I still believe if the players had of bought into his philosophy we would of made top 4.

On Ralf this was my opinion of him in his interim period thread. The thread is closed for further replies so I can't post quote it.


We haven't dropped a clanger. Once Ole was sacked we obviously needed a new manager. The club (for once) took the right decision in waiting if the top targets weren't available so that left the interim route. Ralf was my first choice. Not because of his managerial skills but because of his experience he can offer the club as a consultant in the DOF role. If the only way to achieve that was to give him the interim for 6 months then I don't have a problem with that.

Giving Ralf the role he can at least see first hand the changes that will be needed in the short/medium term to get us functioning again as a top level club. So even if he is a failure as a manager which could be a distinct possibility the experience he will have obtained will definitely benefit him as well as the club when his interim period ends.

My stance on him hasnt changed at all from the very start.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Anyone who play’s 4-2-2-2 with these players has lost all credibility.

Once again we're talking about his feckin interim period and not what he could offer the club.

" He'll stay on as technical director or something for two seasons after the interim post. This is good."

"The only reason we must be giving him this deal is because we finally realise that if we are to modernise and become a serious football club again, we have to give some control over to actual footballing personalities."

" I'm happy we look to be shifting away from the 'manager' approach and going down the route of better structure of a DOF and first team coach."

"The best news in this is that in the next two years, he seems to have a de-facto DoF role (for the first team). "

These are all posts from the day Rangnick was appointed, that say or imply he's not simply "helping" people in charge but taking a lead role in building the club.

Then, later in the thread, I picked a random point (April, when most people were off the Ralfwagon) and found this:

" Ralf was never brought in to desperately steer this lot to top four, it would have been a nice bonus, of course.. but he’s here to look at the club as a whole, work with the team directly and assess everything with absolutely no bias.. then report back to the long term manager and move upstairs where he can make real lasting changes to the structure."

It is simply not true that "absolutely nobody" said these things. A lot of people thought he was United's new DoF in spirit.

A lot of people also thought with his experience the club would use him a lot more than 2 days a week on zoom calls where he would contribute the square root of nothing. A properly run club would be using his experience to the maximum but then again we are United.

 

[RacingClub]

Yes thats me. Notice I said hopefully the new manager can get them ticking? I really believed that until it became obvious the the club was full off toxic, gutless, cowardly players and I still believe if the players had of bought into his philosophy we would of made top 4.

On Ralf this was my opinion of him in his interim period thread. The thread is closed for further replies so I can't post quote it.


We haven't dropped a clanger. Once Ole was sacked we obviously needed a new manager. The club (for once) took the right decision in waiting if the top targets weren't available so that left the interim route. Ralf was my first choice. Not because of his managerial skills but because of his experience he can offer the club as a consultant in the DOF role. If the only way to achieve that was to give him the interim for 6 months then I don't have a problem with that.

Giving Ralf the role he can at least see first hand the changes that will be needed in the short/medium term to get us functioning again as a top level club. So even if he is a failure as a manager which could be a distinct possibility the experience he will have obtained will definitely benefit him as well as the club when his interim period ends.

My stance on him hasnt changed at all from the very start.

Yeah so you thought that RR would come fourth comfortably initially (December) and then when the wheels fell off (January forwards) you started to focus more on the consultancy role vs his managerial performance.

Which is what I said most of the people who thought he would secure Fourth did.

Usually the fans who convinced themselves of that were the ones who themselves were convinced that signing Ralf would mean that United were definitely going to finish in the top 4.



Once that didn't happen the focus was on how he was going to help restore order and the terrible performances etc were actually great because it exposed the players who weren't good enough.

Then you said;

I think you'll find that most fans who knew about Rangnick were a lot more excited when his consultancy role was going to start far more than his interim period. No need to change facts to suit agendas.

I didn't change any facts, it's what happened.

 

[Strootman's Finger]

Maybe he shouldn't have gone for the Austria job if he wanted to be a consultant here, and put up a better performance as manager. Why are his fanboys continuing to moan about him no longer being here when it was he himself that put him out of it to begin with?

You honestly think that's what happened? A bit of advice for you, don't believe what you read in the papers. And definitely don't believe United's PR. He was sacked before he got the Austria job.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Yeah so you thought that RR would come fourth comfortably initially (December) and then when the wheels fell off (January forwards) you started to focus more on the consultancy role vs his managerial performance.

Did you actually read what I posted above? If not here's a snippet on my thoughts of Rangnick when he was announced as interim. Before the wheels fell off.

Ralf was my first choice. Not because of his managerial skills but because of his experience he can offer the club as a consultant in the DOF role. If the only way to achieve that was to give him the interim for 6 months then I don't have a problem with that.

My stance on Rangnick hasnt moved one inch.

 

[RacingClub]

Did you actually read what I posted above? If not here's a snippet on my thoughts of Rangnick when he was announced as interim. Before the wheels fell off.

Ralf was my first choice. Not because of his managerial skills but because of his experience he can offer the club as a consultant in the DOF role. If the only way to achieve that was to give him the interim for 6 months then I don't have a problem with that.

You posted that when he was announced? Or in January when things were going south?

Edit ; January 6th after the home loss to Wolves and Draw with Newcastle so already with a degree of hindsight.

So yeah you were initially bullish about Ralfs managerial prospects (December 4th) and by January 6th ( After some poor performances and results) you were more willing to ignore his managerial performance and focus on the consultancy.

You are the one who accused me of changing facts and having an agenda when it's pretty obvious that you are the one with the agenda here.

 

[MadDogg]

You posted that when he was announced? Or in January when things were going south?

Edit ; January 6th.

To be fair, I remember a couple of years ago that quite a lot of people wanted Ralf to come in on as interim manager and then move into our DoF role. I know because I was one of them. The focus for all of us then was more for the DoF role, as it was a year or two later when we did actually bring him in (albeit only in a consultant role rather than doing the DoF job himself).

Obviously we all hoped he would stabilise the ship and get us into the top four last season, but speaking for myself the most important thing was always the long-term bigger changes he would hopefully be influencing later on, and the first-hand experience with the team would put him in a good position to make the right calls. As everything went to shit last season I considered it a necessary evil for long-term benefit, and for the first time in ages I was quite confident we were going to be moving in the right direction. After getting rid of Ralf that confidence definitely took a hit, and with how things have gone this transfer window that confidence has slipped further. Still more confident than I was under Woodward, Ole and most of Jose's reigns, but there are bigger question marks over everything than I'd like.

 

[Ted Lasso]

It was Nkunku. When Rangnick first arrived, he was reviewing our upcoming transfer plans, and asked for our reports on him. But was told there was zero reports on him & that he wasn't being considered at all which shocked him.

Wow. I actually missed that interview.

I'm baffled by some of this. It's silly but telling that even video game companies we joke about - football manager, fifa - all seem to have a better scouting system in place than one of the top clubs in the world.

 

[RacingClub]

To be fair, I remember a couple of years ago that quite a lot of people wanted Ralf to come in on as interim manager and then move into our DoF role. I know because I was one of them. The focus for all of us then was more for the DoF role, as it was a year or two later when we did actually bring him in (albeit only in a consultant role rather than doing the DoF job himself).

Obviously we all hoped he would stabilise the ship and get us into the top four last season, but speaking for myself the most important thing was always the long-term bigger changes he would hopefully be influencing later on, and the first-hand experience with the team would put him in a good position to make the right calls. As everything went to shit last season I considered it a necessary evil for long-term benefit, and for the first time in ages I was quite confident we were going to be moving in the right direction. After getting rid of Ralf that confidence definitely took a hit, and with how things have gone this transfer window that confidence has slipped further.

Yeah and thats all cool with me.

I just don't like the suggestion of having an agenda when I pointed out that a lot of people who believed Ralf was moving upstairs to enact real change (without much evidence that it was going to happen) were those who also felt that he would finish 4th easily when he took over.

Hell I thought he would do a good job initially, it just didn't work out the way I thought it would.

I don't have an issue with you feeling the way you did/ do.

I do have an issue with being accused of having an agenda / changing facts by a poster who obviously is projecting die to his own agenda and willingness to change the facts.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

You posted that when he was announced? Or in January when things were going south?

Edit ; January 6th after the home loss to Wolves and Draw with Newcastle so already with a degree of hindsight.

So yeah you were initially bullish about Ralfs managerial prospects (December 4th) and by January 6th ( After some poor performances and results) you were more willing to ignore his managerial performance and focus on the consultancy.

You are the one who accused me of changing facts and having an agenda when it's pretty obvious that you are the one with the agenda here.

Yeah OK. Since Ralfs first game until I made my comment on 6th of January we played 6 games. Winning 3, drawing 2 and losing 1. Hardly grounds for great panic at the time, was it? If you think I'm changing my opinion after 1 defeat then you haven't been following United at all in the last decade.

 

[RacingClub]

Yeah OK. Since Ralfs first game until I made my comment on 6th of January we played 6 games. Winning 3, drawing 2 and losing 1. Hardly grounds for great panic at the time, was it? If you think I'm changing my opinion after 1 defeat then you haven't been following United at all in the last decade.

It was grounds for another poster to feel that United had dropped a clanger by appointing RR which is the post you were replying to on January 6th.

The results werent terrible but the performances were and the dropped points meant your original prediction of a comfortable 4th place finish looked more and more unlikely.

You are the one who accused me of "Changing Facts" and having an "Agenda" by pointing out a pattern that I noticed on a lot of the RR threads which is especially weird because you followed that pattern.

Initially confident of finishing in the top 4 and then increasingly focused on the (undefined) consultancy as results deteriorated.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

It was grounds for another poster to feel that United had dropped a clanger by appointing RR which is the post you were replying to on January 6th.

The results werent terrible but the performances were and the dropped points meant your original prediction of a comfortable 4th place finish looked more and more unlikely.

You are the one who accused me of "Changing Facts" and having an "Agenda" by pointing out a pattern that I noticed on a lot of the RR threads which is especially weird because you followed that pattern.

Initially confident of finishing in the top 4 and then increasingly focused on the (undefined) consultancy as results deteriorated.

Shock horror. A United supporter turning on the negativity after a loss. Its already happening with ETH so it's nothing new on the forum.

The reason I mentioned agenda was for your following post.

Usually the fans who convinced themselves of that were the ones who themselves were convinced that signing Ralf would mean that United were definitely going to finish in the top 4.

Once that didn't happen the focus was on how he was going to help restore order and the terrible performances etc were actually great because it exposed the players who weren't good enough.

When you say usually that implies it's for a majority of the poster's that keep changing their minds like the wind and as I did think we would finish 4th (nothing wrong with optimism) I was included in that comment. Knowing the majority of my comments/thoughts focused on the importance of Ralf in the consultancy role more than as interim when he first came in and probably before when his name was first mentioned I took it as an issue. If agenda isn't the right word then I apologise but you're comment was based on your own opinions more than facts. So what if you've seen a few people change their minds. Happens all the time on here but that doesn't make your post factual as you seem to be stating.