Ralf Rangnick's consultancy role has been scrapped

[Lyng]

Why does this matter more for Utd than the other clubs? (I assume you meant fans by the way)

Our players seemed to play better. Other teams thrive of the fans.

 

[stevoc]

Not really, it should be group decisions between the scouts, football directors and coaching staff.

Given how things have gone it just seems like it probably would have gone more smoothly if Ralf had some influence on the football director side.

Yes in an ideal scenario I'd agree but hasn't the scouting department seen major departures? Plus they'd have mostly been working off targets for Solskjaer over the last few years, we also have a relatively new DOF, a new CEO and a new manager so obviously its going to take a while to get things in place and identify players to suit Tan Hag's football. Until then the club and Ten Hag have obviously decided that this summer the best approach is to go after players Erik is familiar with.

 

[stevoc]

If those players identified are not arnotovic and rabiot, then yes.

If we were going after the likes of Arnautovic and Rabiot in May I'd agree. But obviously De Jongs pay dispute and Ronaldo suddenly deciding he wants to leave have thrown a spanner in the works of this summers recruitment plan.

 

[Telsim]

Every thread people say we need to forget about the 2nd 3rd stuff. The reason is because most of the nonsense arguments fall apart when you take it into account. Like when people say we can't expect to beat Brighton with mcfred, and I say they were the major midfielders in a 2nd and 3rd place finish .. the response is always 'lets ignore that

That argument is invalid because it's incredible reductive.

17-18 finished 2nd with 81 points. First place was 100. 19 points behind.
18-19 finished 6th with 66 points. First place was 98. 32 point behind.
19-20 finished 3rd, but again with 66 points, meaning there was no improvement, but competition got worse. First place was 99. 33 points behind.
20-21 finished 2nd with 74 points. First place was 86. 12 points behind. Also, Liverpool significantly underperformed that season.
21-22 finished 6th with 58 points, the worst points tally in PL history.

The team was never in shout of a title and neither previous season points tally was enough to come even close to winning the title the next season. The improvement at best was 8 points over the previous season. Not mention that direct rivals Chelsea, City, and Liverpool have actually managed to win either the PL or the CL during that period. Meanwhile, all our squad managed was to lose the EL to Villareal.

You can jump through all the hoops and mental gymnastics, but reality is what it is - the players we have had and continue to have are low quality despite an occasional good performance.

 

[stevoc]

So when he fails to, who do you think could? Poch; Jose; Ole?

Are you of the belief that no coach on the planet could get the majority or even half of these players playing well?

 

[stevoc]

Just because he’s a good manager doesn’t mean he knows the football market. Ajax players were identified by Ajax. You think he picked out Antony himself? ETH was watching São Paulo regular?

As a possible signing for Man Utd yes he did.

There's a reason this summer we are only going after players Erik is familiar with, basically right now we don't have a scouting department in place. At least not an experienced one that's had 6-12 months to work on targets that suits Ten Hag's football. And from all reports Erik and Ralf's ideas on recruitment didn't gel.

 

[Carl]

Are you of the belief that no coach on the planet could get the majority or even half of these players playing well?

Not sure how many more managers need to fail before the penny drops that these players are operating at around their level.

Having said that, I don't think loads needs to be done to give an instant bump.

A competent goalkeeper immediately makes the back 4 look better. A competent midfield immediately makes the team look better.

But instead, we've so far signed a sub left back, a CB and an attacking midfielder. That's not to say those weren't areas that needed improving, but they shouldn't have been priority in my opinion.

 

[stevoc]

And I'm not sure I agree with your last sentence. We now have quite a few players who would be underperforming for their fourth manager, if that happens. In my opinion, if we hit the wall now, it's the players taking the rap this time.

So you think it's possible that a top coach can't get a tune out of an entire squad full of internationals?

Even Solakjaer got the majority of this squad performing well for good stretches. So I find it hard to believe given a few months and maybe one or two more signings that Ten Hag wouldn't be able to improve the majority this team/squad compared to last season.

 

[stevoc]

People still harping on about that second place failing to see how not having fans in stadiums changed everything. We happened to benefit from it, others didn't. but the reality is football is watched by fans in the stadium and we seem to have become unable to adapt back to that. says pretty much all we need to know about the club at present. At the rate we are going, it could be another 26-year wait for the title... (partly joking)

How?

Genuinely interested.

Why does this matter more for Utd than the other clubs? (I assume you meant fans by the way)

Indeed it's a fascinating theory that no one that I can recall has been able to explain with anything tangible.

 

[stevoc]

Not sure how many more managers need to fail before the penny drops that these players are operating at around their level.

Having said that, I don't think loads needs to be done to give an instant bump.

A competent goalkeeper immediately makes the back 4 look better. A competent midfield immediately makes the team look better.

But instead, we've so far signed a sub left back, a CB and an attacking midfielder. That's not to say those weren't areas that needed improving, but they shouldn't have been priority in my opinion.

I'm not necessarily saying the current squad is great, though I wouldn't judge most of them based on last season. To challenge for the title it obviously needs major work.

All I'm saying is this idea that we must torpedo every member or even the majority of the current squad for Ten Hag to build a good team is nonsense.

 

[justsomebloke]

So you think it's possible that a top coach can't get a tune out of an entire squad full of internationals?

Even Solakjaer got the majority of this squad performing well for good stretches. So I find it hard to believe given a few months and maybe one or two more signings that Ten Hag wouldn't be able to improve the majority this team/squad compared to last season.

Of course it's possible. It wouldn't be the first time.

Naturally I hope he will get a tune out of them, and I would be surprised if he doesn't.

 

[Mainoldo]

As a possible signing for Man Utd yes he did.

There's a reason this summer we are only going after players Erik is familiar with, basically right now we don't have a scouting department in place. At least not an experienced one that's had 6-12 months to work on targets that suits Ten Hag's football. And from all reports Erik and Ralf's ideas on recruitment didn't gel.

Yeah I clearly meant from São Paulo to Ajax which you conveniently overlooked.

From reports… Ralf has been doing this for years. I’m very sure if they had a conversation Ralf was smart enough to identify players that matched ETH’s profile. Right now we are bringing up names such as Arnautovic.

 

[arthurka]

Not sure how many more managers need to fail before the penny drops that these players are operating at around their level.

Having said that, I don't think loads needs to be done to give an instant bump.

A competent goalkeeper immediately makes the back 4 look better. A competent midfield immediately makes the team look better.

But instead, we've so far signed a sub left back, a CB and an attacking midfielder. That's not to say those weren't areas that needed improving, but they shouldn't have been priority in my opinion.

I get where you are going and agree.

Bruno has been underperforming for months on end with no let up in sight, Eriksen adds quality and competition. Shaw has been terrible for years on end and Telles is terrible adding a LB makes perfect sense. Martinez is a warrior and a ball playing CB we have a lot of CB's but sadly they are either not good or always injured. The point is we need a bunch of players to come into this squad that is seriously lacking in quality. Our inability to get signings done and identify quality and character will also be the end of this manager, club is broken from the inside.

 

[manichester]

Ralf got them playing for half a game, ETH got them playing for a couple of friendlies, this lot have downed tools again, weak mentally and physically.

 

[Revaulx]

Are you of the belief that no coach on the planet could get the majority or even half of these players playing well?

Ole. Southgate maybe.

Why Ole insisted on pursuing Sancho remains a complete mystery to me. He seems the most un-Ole player imaginable.

 

[#07]

I would love to hear Rangnick speak about his time at United. What he thought his role was going in, how his role was communicated within the club and in particular to players and coaching/backroom staff. When it became clear that the job he wanted to do wasn't the job the club wanted him to do and what happened thereafter.

If he could be convinced to speak out, it would give us all a much clearer idea of who the biggest actors in the club are. Is it the Glazers themselves or just the fools they've put in place? What are the actual goals and objectives of the club?

He did plenty of football talks before taking the United job didn't he? I wonder how much he charges and could enough of us chip in to hire him to speak in front of a camera for an hour or two.

This will never happen.

Rangnick would have agreed to an NDA as part of his severance package. He has no incentive for breaking that NDA. He's now coach of Austria and Man Utd is a closed chapter for him. Just like Rangnick is a closed chapter for Man Utd.

Yeah I clearly meant from São Paulo to Ajax which you conveniently overlooked.

From reports… Ralf has been doing this for years. I’m very sure if they had a conversation Ralf was smart enough to identify players that matched ETH’s profile. Right now we are bringing up names such as Arnautovic.

Exactly.

In the present, Rangnick is only relevant for us when assessing whether his consultancy could have been a value add.

We all know he failed as an interim head coach, the table doesn't lie. The continued point of discussing Rangnick is whether we think this summer would have gone differently with more input from him. Seeing how its panned out, I can't help but feel we'd have done better than we have with him helping us raid the Red Bull group for players.

 

[diarm]

This will never happen.

Rangnick would have agreed to an NDA as part of his severance package. He has no incentive for breaking that NDA. He's now coach of Austria and Man Utd is a closed chapter for him. Just like Rangnick is a closed chapter for Man Utd.

Oh I assumed similar. But there are a lot of United fans - how many of us would have to chip in €20 to convince him to break that NDA?

Would be a great laugh as well - a Redcafe social, where we all get drunk and listen to Ralf bitch about Woodward and the Glazers.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

He wasn't a good coach. But he's shown time and time again that he knows how to build a football club. His opinions on the players should have been listened to. He was fecking right about them. But that would have been proper expensive wouldn't it.

Ralf Rangnick identified Scott McTominay as "future captain of Manchester United" material. Do you agree with his assessment?

 

[justsomebloke]

In the present, Rangnick is only relevant for us when assessing whether his consultancy could have been a value add.

We all know he failed as an interim head coach, the table doesn't lie. The continued point of discussing Rangnick is whether we think this summer would have gone differently with more input from him. Seeing how its panned out, I can't help but feel we'd have done better than we have with him helping us raid the Red Bull group for players.

Pretty much, although I'm not so sure the consultancy is really the thing. As you say he was obviously a failure as an interim, but the question is, why and what lessons did we take from it? He pointed squarely at systemic shortcomings and a collective squad failure. The board and upper management must have had a hard time buying that - they went into the season convinced that we were a club very much heading in the right direction, and having laid a strong foundation to build on. The difference between those two assessments are paradigmatic in scope. To accept Ralf's assesment would have meant completely and fundamentally throwing out their basic perception of the reality just a few months earlier. Very few institutions are good at that. So, much easier to write that off as RR trying to shift the blame for his own lack of results. And maybe there was an element of that. But I don't think RR was wrong, fundamentally. That's where the club passed up the major benefit of having RR around, in my view. If the brass had accepted that judgment, it would have put things on a different track, and we wouldn't necessarily have needed RR as a consultant to act on it.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

That argument is invalid because it's incredible reductive.

17-18 finished 2nd with 81 points. First place was 100. 19 points behind.
18-19 finished 6th with 66 points. First place was 98. 32 point behind.
19-20 finished 3rd, but again with 66 points, meaning there was no improvement, but competition got worse. First place was 99. 33 points behind.
20-21 finished 2nd with 74 points. First place was 86. 12 points behind. Also, Liverpool significantly underperformed that season.
21-22 finished 6th with 58 points, the worst points tally in PL history.

The team was never in shout of a title and neither previous season points tally was enough to come even close to winning the title the next season. The improvement at best was 8 points over the previous season. Not mention that direct rivals Chelsea, City, and Liverpool have actually managed to win either the PL or the CL during that period. Meanwhile, all our squad managed was to lose the EL to Villareal.

You can jump through all the hoops and mental gymnastics, but reality is what it is - the players we have had and continue to have are low quality despite an occasional good performance.

Nothing in what you said convinces me that we should expect ETH to be hammered at home by Brighton or come 7th in the league. You aren't going to win this argument since that is what it is about. You can win strawman arguments if you like. But try to convince me that we should be getting hammered at home by Brighton

 

[Crashoutcassius]

The reason people tell you to ignore it is because the teams around us where in much worse shape that season, and no players in the stands. Its a nothing argument.
You dont get top 4 with this team anymore. Its simple as that.

The players in the stand argument is a nothing argument. Every clubwas in the same boat. It's just an emotional Gary Neville parrot

 

[Blood Mage]

Ralf got them playing for half a game, ETH got them playing for a couple of friendlies, this lot have downed tools again, weak mentally and physically.

They haven't downed tools, they're just mentally shot and have zero belief anymore. That's why a complete overhaul was needed, but the penny pinchers at the top got delusions of grandeur that Ten Hag could somehow wave a magic wand over them. Reality has already hit home and now we're trying to panic buy.

 

[hasanejaz88]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hi...areer-move-after-holding-tottenham-talks/?amp

Hitc? Hardly a reliable link, never heard of anything concrete when it came Ralf other than the Milan job two years ago.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

So you think it's possible that a top coach can't get a tune out of an entire squad full of internationals?

Even Solakjaer got the majority of this squad performing well for good stretches. So I find it hard to believe given a few months and maybe one or two more signings that Ten Hag wouldn't be able to improve the majority this team/squad compared to last season.

No he didn't. Our football under Ole was on the whole pretty dire and was never going to be sustainable and ETH is never getting anything out of this group because Rashford is finished, Bruno inexplicably has become a complete liability for us and you never know what youre going to get with De Gea and Shaw.These 4 played a massive part in getting us top 4 finishes. Football is a team game. When relying on individuals it's eventually going to fall apart and here we are today.

The most important cogs in the wheel are in midfield. Do you honestly think we have the players there to even push for top 4 when the parts i mentioned are falling apart? ETH may be one of the potentially best managers out there but he can't work miracles. Both Klopp and Pep ripped up their respective squads in a very short period of time because even they couldn't get blood out of a stone so what makes you think ETH is any different?

 

[PedroMendez]

Nothing in what you said convinces me that we should expect ETH to be hammered at home by Brighton or come 7th in the league. You aren't going to win this argument since that is what it is about. You can win strawman arguments if you like. But try to convince me that we should be getting hammered at home by Brighton

United wasn't hammered. It ended 2:1 and United wasn't the worse team in the second half. The problem isn't that this type of performances can happen. Its that it happened at least 30-40 times during the last 4 seasons against teams that are midtable at best.. When things go well in the second half, the team can easily pick up a point or even three (not that this would have been deserved). Ole was the comeback king, because the team barely played for two halfs.

 

[justsomebloke]

The reason people tell you to ignore it is because the teams around us where in much worse shape that season, and no players in the stands. Its a nothing argument.
You dont get top 4 with this team anymore. Its simple as that.

I think it's really less an issue of inherent squad quality than of what has happened to our best players and how they deal with it. If Shaw, Maguire, Rashford, Martial and Bruno performed like they did in their peak periods between January 2020 and January 2021, then certainly we'd have a squad that could compete in the top 4. But they are all diminished. There are many possible reasons for that for each of them, but this is what it's most fundamentally about.

 

[Lyng]

The players in the stand argument is a nothing argument. Every clubwas in the same boat. It's just an emotional Gary Neville parrot

Not at all. Roy Keane was talking about the issue after the Brighton disaster. our players are extremely weak mentally. Hence why the pressure of the crowds actually damages our players, whereas other teams thrive of it. Our squad is, quite frankly, not a squad that will ever challenge for the title in a normal season.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

United wasn't hammered. It ended 2:1 and United wasn't the worse team in the second half. The problem isn't that this type of performances can happen. Its that it happened at least 30-40 times during the last 4 seasons against teams that are midtable at best.. When things go well in the second half, the team can easily pick up a point or even three (not that this would have been deserved). Ole was the comeback king, because the team barely played for two halfs.

I know what you are saying. But people are saying we should EXPECT to lose to Brighton because of mctominay Maguire etc. That is what I am saying is childish waffle

 

[justsomebloke]

No he didn't. Our football under Ole was on the whole pretty dire and was never going to be sustainable and ETH is never getting anything out of this group because Rashford is finished, Bruno inexplicably has become a complete liability for us and you never know what youre going to get with De Gea and Shaw.These 4 played a massive part in getting us top 4 finishes. Football is a team game. When relying on individuals it's eventually going to fall apart and here we are today.

The most important cogs in the wheel are in midfield. Do you honestly think we have the players there to even push for top 4 when the parts i mentioned are falling apart? ETH may be one of the potentially best managers out there but he can't work miracles. Both Klopp and Pep ripped up their respective squads in a very short period of time because even they couldn't get blood out of a stone so what makes you think ETH is any different?

Yes he did. As you yourself appear to argue when you point to the players who were massive in getting us to the top 4. Under OGS. But who are much worse now.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Yes he did. As you yourself appear to argue when you point to the players who were massive in getting us to the top 4. Under OGS. But who are much worse now.

Rashford is much worse because Ole basically run him into the ground. Bruno is much worse because we're trying to move away from the Stoke style of play adopted by Ole which suited Brunos style of play and actually move us into the 21st century. Shaw and De Gea upped their game when Telles and Henderson were brought in but how long before they move back into their comfort zone?

Ole basically let the players do what they wanted because they knew they'd never be called out and were almost guaranteed starting time however their form which is why when the players were actually forced to act like professionals the weak mentality that was instilled has came to the forefront and once again, here we are today.

 

[justsomebloke]

Rashford is much worse because Ole basically run him into the ground. Bruno is much worse because we're trying to move away from the Stoke style of play adopted by Ole which suited Brunos style of play and actually move us into the 21st century. Shaw and De Gea upped their game when Telles and Henderson were brought in but how long before they move back into their comfort zone?

Ole basically let the players do what they wanted because they knew they'd never be called out and were almost guaranteed starting time however their form which is why when the players were actually forced to act like professionals the weak mentality that was instilled has came to the forefront and once again, here we are today.

No amount of that sort of thing is going to change the simple fact that Rashford, Martial, Bruno and Shaw all played the best football of their United careers under OGS. By some margin, and for protracted periods (Bruno the most, Martial the least). De Gea on the other hand suffered through the weakest part of his United career under OGS, so it's interesting that you bring him into the picture. If the arrival of Alex Telles was the only reason Shaw temporarily upped his game, then I can't wait to see what'll happen now that we've Malacia, who as far as I can tell is a much bigger threat to his position than Telles ever was.

"Stoke style of play" is really just nonsense.

And I'm not attempting to argue that OGS was a resounding success, if that's what you think. But facts are facts.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Not at all. Roy Keane was talking about the issue after the Brighton disaster. our players are extremely weak mentally. Hence why the pressure of the crowds actually damages our players, whereas other teams thrive of it. Our squad is, quite frankly, not a squad that will ever challenge for the title in a normal season.

I agree. We shouldn't expect to be beaten by Brighton at home though

 

[Lyng]

I agree. We shouldn't expect to be beaten by Brighton at home though

No I agree we shouldnt. But I worry that without significant upgrades to several of the players this will keep happening, regardless of manager.

 

[#07]

No I agree we shouldnt. But I worry that without significant upgrades to several of the players this will keep happening, regardless of manager.

100%. Some of us need to take the red tinted shades off. Brighton would not swap players like Caicedo for players like Fred. They just wouldn't. West Ham wouldn't want Fred and McTominay to replace Rice and Soucek, Leicester wouldn't want them for Ndidi and Tielemans, Wolves wouldn't want them for Neves and Moutinho, Southampton wouldn't want them for Romeu and Ward-Prowse. The list goes on.

Its all well and good saying Man Utd should be able to beat Brighton. However, in key areas, teams that are solidly midtable are better than us. They have better options than us. That should set off alarm bells for our supporters.

I didn't go into yesterday's game expecting an easy win. I thought we might scrape it. However, the gap (if there is one) between us and most Premier League teams is the smallest its been since the Premier League was founded. So we can't just turn up like the big swinging proverbial and expect to beat Brighton.

We needed, this summer, to take a long hard look at where we are. Be humble about the mistakes that we have made. Then take steps to start fixing them. Rangnick was right, we did need up to 10 new players. When you see what Spurs have done, what PSG is doing, it wasn't beyond the pale to get them either. We did not need to buy 10 Neymars. Campos has fixed PSG's midfield for more or less what we spent on Martinez.

Had we spent smart not big we could've really set Ten Hag up for success. Instead we have ended up where Man Utd have so often ended up since Sir Alex retired: Scrambling around at the end of the window looking at who we could get. Rather than having identified who is best for us before the window even opens, having the deals lined up, and making sure our key areas were strengthened before preseason began.

We are lightyears behind the best clubs in how they're run and, the saddest part is, the people in the club don't even understand that. They brief journalists that its unfair about how our transfer window is being written about. They honestly don't understand why they're doing a bad job. Rangnick's consultancy may have filled that gap, given them someone independent who could hold up a mirror. However, when he started doing it, the truth hurt too much so they chucked him out.

Honest to God I'm scared for the Liverpool game. This could be another humiliation after seeing them put 9 past us last season. If, as I fear, the Scousers absolutely slaughter us. Murtough and everyone involved in ending Rangnick's consultancy should be out and we should get a new hierarchy in place that can support the manager ahead of the winter window.

 

[Lyng]

100%. Some of us need to take the red tinted shades off. Brighton would not swap players like Caicedo for players like Fred. They just wouldn't. West Ham wouldn't want Fred and McTominay to replace Rice and Soucek, Leicester wouldn't want them for Ndidi and Tielemans, Wolves wouldn't want them for Neves and Moutinho, Southampton wouldn't want them for Romeu and Ward-Prowse. The list goes on.

Its all well and good saying Man Utd should be able to beat Brighton. However, in key areas, teams that are solidly midtable are better than us. They have better options than us. That should set off alarm bells for our supporters.

I didn't go into yesterday's game expecting an easy win. I thought we might scrape it. However, the gap (if there is one) between us and most Premier League teams is the smallest its been since the Premier League was founded. So we can't just turn up like the big swinging proverbial and expect to beat Brighton.

We needed, this summer, to take a long hard look at where we are. Be humble about the mistakes that we have made. Then take steps to start fixing them. Rangnick was right, we did need up to 10 new players. When you see what Spurs have done, what PSG is doing, it wasn't beyond the pale to get them either. We did not need to buy 10 Neymars. Campos has fixed PSG's midfield for more or less what we spent on Martinez.

Had we spent smart not big we could've really set Ten Hag up for success. Instead we have ended up where Man Utd have so often ended up since Sir Alex retired: Scrambling around at the end of the window looking at who we could get. Rather than having identified who is best for us before the window even opens, having the deals lined up, and making sure our key areas were strengthened before preseason began.

We are lightyears behind the best clubs in how they're run and, the saddest part is, the people in the club don't even understand that. They brief journalists that its unfair about how our transfer window is being written about. They honestly don't understand why they're doing a bad job. Rangnick's consultancy may have filled that gap, given them someone independent who could hold up a mirror. However, when he started doing it, the truth hurt too much so they chucked him out.

Honest to God I'm scared for the Liverpool game. This could be another humiliation after seeing them put 9 past us last season. If, as I fear, the Scousers absolutely slaughter us. Murtough and everyone involved in ending Rangnick's consultancy should be out and we should get a new hierarchy in place that can support the manager ahead of the winter window.

Spot on.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

No I agree we shouldnt. But I worry that without significant upgrades to several of the players this will keep happening, regardless of manager.

We should be upgrading the squad, but the manager shouldn't have us mid table in the mean time with the players we have. The result yesterday is on the manager, because we have the players to not lose to a weakened Brighton at home. I think ETH would agree with this, he isn't a self serving character like Ralf was, he will take responsibility for the team and that will help over time

 

[Kill 'em all]

Ragnick was the first manager to have the balls to say things the way they are are. He knew what needed to be changed, the amount of surgery the squad needed and openly criticized a few aspects of our club.The club's reply? We removed him.

 

[stevoc]

Yeah I clearly meant from São Paulo to Ajax which you conveniently overlooked.

I'm not conveniently overlooking anything mate, I knew what you meant but it was irrelevant. You were basically claiming that Ralf Rangnick knows which players suit Ten Hags style better than Erik himself does because Erik may or may not have personally scouted Antony in Brazil.

From reports… Ralf has been doing this for years. I’m very sure if they had a conversation Ralf was smart enough to identify players that matched ETH’s profile. Right now we are bringing up names such as Arnautovic.

Perhaps but with how things played out it seems like Ten Hag didn't want his help in identifying players.

 

[RedorDead21]

We should be upgrading the squad, but the manager shouldn't have us mid table in the mean time with the players we have. The result yesterday is on the manager, because we have the players to not lose to a weakened Brighton at home. I think ETH would agree with this, he isn't a self serving character like Ralf was, he will take responsibility for the team and that will help over time

I think people need to reconsider this viewpoint…Brighton have better individuals doing thejob that they are being asked to do in more areas than us…it’s been proven time and time again by the bottom half of the PL table in the past 18 months.

 

[Andycoleno9]

He should have been DoF. But we are United. Why do something which is logical. Jobs for the boys is the way and Murtough was the one of the boys