Ralf Rangnick's consultancy role has been scrapped

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golden_blunder said:
End it would be at odds with the type of players ETH wants so what would be the point?
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The point being we need squad depth. If FDJ is ETH's no1 target, fine but McTommy & Dalot should never start for United regardless of who in charge.
Also didn't RR say he recommended some players that would be good for any playstyle?
 
Three days ago the man was a charlatan who heralded the worst period of football played at the club since the 70s.
 
Dominos said:
Certainly the way we've run this transfer window with Ten Hag neglecting weak areas and targeting 6 of his ex players is just shambolic.
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This is just not true. Malacia was at Feyenoord, Erikson has never played under him before.

He has only bought in Lissandro who was an ex player and is trying to get in FDJ.

It's amazing how quick a narrative is built around a manager and then people want to break him down. He walked into a shambles of a scouting department (which is undergoing a rebuild) and had to find some players to improve the squad. What do you expect him to do? Buy players he hasn't seen/ analysed or go after those he thinks can fit into his system.

This is just another example of the club's failings being pinned on the manager.
 
Loon said:
Three days ago the man was a charlatan who heralded the worst period of football played at the club since the 70s.
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He wasn't a good coach. But he's shown time and time again that he knows how to build a football club. His opinions on the players should have been listened to. He was fecking right about them. But that would have been proper expensive wouldn't it.
 
Loon said:
Three days ago the man was a charlatan who heralded the worst period of football played at the club since the 70s.
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I don’t think anybody would argue that he’s not the best coach but his main attribute is in the DoF role he’s great at finding top young players and has experience in building teams, even now after this awful summer we’re crying out for somebody to help with recruitment.

He was brutal about the players and the club and they didn’t like hearing the truth.
 
Shiva87 said:
This is just not true. Malacia was at Feyenoord, Erikson has never played under him before.

He has only bought in Lissandro who was an ex player and is trying to get in FDJ.

It's amazing how quick a narrative is built around a manager and then people want to break him down. He walked into a shambles of a scouting department (which is undergoing a rebuild) and had to find some players to improve the squad. What do you expect him to do? Buy players he hasn't seen/ analysed or go after those he thinks can fit into his system.

This is just another example of the club's failings being pinned on the manager.
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Timber, De Jong, Anthony, Arnautovic, Martinez...

If the club genuinely haven't looked at any players and have zero ideas of who to target as they forgot to do any scouting, then fair enough. I don't believe that though, we've scrapped the clubs targets and players Ralf recommended in favour of (primarily) letting ETH choose his own targets.

Ultimately it is the club's fault for allowing a new manager too much power.
 
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Dominos said:
Timber, De Jong, Anthony, Arnautovic, Martinez...

If the club genuinely haven't looked at any players and have zero ideas of who to target, then fair enough. I don't believe that though, we've scrapped the clubs targets and players Ralf recommended in favour of letting ETH choose his own targets.
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That says more about the recruitment staff then EtH though. The manager probably does not have any confidence regarding the names brought up by the staff of united.
 
Just being a consultant wouldn't have changed much.

All German posters always stated RR will only work, if he gets full control over recruitment. Given the necessary power I'm pretty sure he would have build a solid team within a couple of years.
You would have gotten top 4 easily.
Whether this team would have been able to challenge City or Liverpool that's a different question.
 
A lot of people have egg on their face. I can admit I’m one of them.

Simple because we are now scrambling for players and I’m convinced Ralf’s recommendations would have suited ETH more.
 
He told the board what we needed and they didn’t want to hear it.
 
Good job we got rid, no chance he'd have unearthed gems like Rabiot or Arnautovic
 
Remember, just like LvG and Jose, the club made him sign a penalty clause to terminate his contract, preventing him to talk about issues surrounding the club.
 
caid said:
Martial, Rashford, Shaw, De Gea, McTominay. Or everyone who was here in 2018 covers it really.
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Some of those players will leave in the next year but it can't be done overnight. And these overly dramatic calls for 'gutting' of the club are still largely nonsense. Tan Hag can build a team over the next few years that includes a lot of the players still at the club, selling the current squad wholesale isn't going to solve our problems. If Erik can't get a tune out of any of these players then he obviously wouldn't be the right man for the job.
 
Godfather said:
He wasn't a good coach. But he's shown time and time again that he knows how to build a football club. His opinions on the players should have been listened to. He was fecking right about them. But that would have been proper expensive wouldn't it.
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Which opinions on which players though?
 
Dominos said:
Timber, De Jong, Anthony, Arnautovic, Martinez...

If the club genuinely haven't looked at any players and have zero ideas of who to target as they forgot to do any scouting, then fair enough. I don't believe that though, we've scrapped the clubs targets and players Ralf recommended in favour of (primarily) letting ETH choose his own targets.

Ultimately it is the club's fault for allowing a new manager too much power.
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So Ralf should have all that power instead then?
 
Crashoutcassius said:
The players were good enough to get 2nd and 3rd the prior seasons. The players were good enough to fight back after going behind some record breaking amount of times. Couple that with the fact that Ralf hasn't coached in years, couldn't get a non interim coaching job the prior decade, I'm inclined to think ETH can get top four with these players
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I think it's time to forget about that 2nd / 3rd stuff. Since then this squad has been absolutely butchered. The likes of Shaw, Maguire, Awb, Rashford, Bruno and Martial (wasn't good even when we got 2nd I think) and more are all a pale shadow of their former selves. De Gea doesn't suit progressive footy. Ronaldo doesn't want to be here.

It's time to let go of the best these players have shown in the past and acknowledge what they are now.
 
I miss Ralf and his press conferences.

We are now back to hearing the corporate line and complete BS
 
Mainoldo said:
A lot of people have egg on their face. I can admit I’m one of them.

Simple because we are now scrambling for players and I’m convinced Ralf’s recommendations would have suited ETH more.
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So you're convinced that Ralf Rangnick is in a better position to identify players more suited to Ten Hags style of play than Erik himself is?
 
stevoc said:
So Ralf should have all that power instead then?
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Not really, it should be group decisions between the scouts, football directors and coaching staff.

Given how things have gone it just seems like it probably would have gone more smoothly if Ralf had some influence on the football director side.
 
stevoc said:
So you're convinced that Ralf Rangnick is in a better position to identify players more suited to Ten Hags style of play than Erik himself is?
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If those players identified are not arnotovic and rabiot, then yes.
 
stevoc said:
So you're convinced that Ralf Rangnick is in a better position to identify players more suited to Ten Hags style of play than Erik himself is?
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The mistake people make is assuming great coach equals great scout. Ten Hag should identify the profile but beyond that he shouldn't have to identify the targets as well.
 
DRJosh said:
I'm confused. How does one match translate to RR being the right man for the consultancy? Lots of conceptual leaps happening
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It's not one match, though. It's the fact that we've done next to nothing in the transfer window... once again when the club should be fully aware that we need a massive invest. Furthermore, we keep going for the wrong targets or even spending the majority of our transfer window chasing a player that we're still not sure if he will come or not come. There's one thing about Ralf that you can't deny - he had an eye for talent. He knew the right players and often for very cheap, too. We don't have that. Murtough seems clueless about this whole thing as Woodward was, unfortunately.

I agree with the sentiment that RR as a director of football sort of figure would have been the most important thing this club could have done besides removing the Glazers from power. Even more importan than ETH as a manager. We're never going to progress anywhere if we just keep swapping managers on the fly and expect a different result. The structure of the club is just entirely wrong.
 
The one that got away! ...... despite being turned down by Milan, Everton, Spurs, etc


But would've been perfect for us! Feck the Glazers
 
stevoc said:
Some of those players will leave in the next year but it can't be done overnight. And these overly dramatic calls for 'gutting' of the club are still largely nonsense. Tan Hag can build a team over the next few years that includes a lot of the players still at the club, selling the current squad wholesale isn't going to solve our problems. If Erik can't get a tune out of any of these players then he obviously wouldn't be the right man for the job.
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So when he fails to, who do you think could? Poch; Jose; Ole?
 
mu4c_20le said:
The one that got away! ...... despite being turned down by Milan, Everton, Spurs, etc


But would've been perfect for us! Feck the Glazers
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Where did Everton and Spurs come from?

Anyways, as much of a fan as I am off Ralf, it's one match. It doesn't prove or disprove anything Ralf said during last season, though I do think our squad does need a bigger overhaul.

Let's hope ETH can get them working better together as the season goes by, better than Ralf and Ole could.
 
We would never be linked with Arnautovic and Rabiot if he was here. He would have signed some decent players that suit a modern system. They wouldn't have been worldclass but they'd help us in transitioning to a worldclass team
 
He was too honest and precise with detecting problems within the squad and it didn't sit well with those above him who are directly guilty for the mess we've been for some time now.
 
stevoc said:
So you're convinced that Ralf Rangnick is in a better position to identify players more suited to Ten Hags style of play than Erik himself is?
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Just because he’s a good manager doesn’t mean he knows the football market. Ajax players were identified by Ajax. You think he picked out Antony himself? ETH was watching São Paulo regular?
 
He actually brought up and mentioned promising players from around Europe in interviews, showing that he was actually clued in. Our club never seems to be aware of any potential up-comers these days.

His tenure as coach was a failure but his work with the RB clubs and the like at identifying talents and building a solid structure was clear to see. Certainly more of a pedigree than any of the jokers we have in charge of recruitment now.
 
stevoc said:
Some of those players will leave in the next year but it can't be done overnight. And these overly dramatic calls for 'gutting' of the club are still largely nonsense. Tan Hag can build a team over the next few years that includes a lot of the players still at the club, selling the current squad wholesale isn't going to solve our problems. If Erik can't get a tune out of any of these players then he obviously wouldn't be the right man for the job.
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Perhaps, but then again maybe there's something somewhere in between that and keeping all of them. While not really bringing in anyone who solves a major identified problem or offers a clear upgrade of the first XI. Whatever the solution to our problems is, I'm pretty sure it's not that.

And I'm not sure I agree with your last sentence. We now have quite a few players who would be underperforming for their fourth manager, if that happens. In my opinion, if we hit the wall now, it's the players taking the rap this time.
 
People still harping on about that second place failing to see how not having fans in stadiums changed everything. We happened to benefit from it, others didn't. but the reality is football is watched by fans in the stadium and we seem to have become unable to adapt back to that. says pretty much all we need to know about the club at present. At the rate we are going, it could be another 26-year wait for the title... (partly joking)
 
hasanejaz88 said:
Where did Everton and Spurs come from?

Anyways, as much of a fan as I am off Ralf, it's one match. It doesn't prove or disprove anything Ralf said during last season, though I do think our squad does need a bigger overhaul.

Let's hope ETH can get them working better together as the season goes by, better than Ralf and Ole could.
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he won’t even try…he’ll be busy trying to swap 2/3 more out of the first team as his main method of improvement. That’s what all these top coaches do..they need talented footballers to begin with. He’ll fail if our transfer policy does.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
I think it's time to forget about that 2nd / 3rd stuff. Since then this squad has been absolutely butchered. The likes of Shaw, Maguire, Awb, Rashford, Bruno and Martial (wasn't good even when we got 2nd I think) and more are all a pale shadow of their former selves. De Gea doesn't suit progressive footy. Ronaldo doesn't want to be here.

It's time to let go of the best these players have shown in the past and acknowledge what they are now.
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Every thread people say we need to forget about the 2nd 3rd stuff. The reason is because most of the nonsense arguments fall apart when you take it into account. Like when people say we can't expect to beat Brighton with mcfred, and I say they were the major midfielders in a 2nd and 3rd place finish .. the response is always 'lets ignore that'

I'm not saying we shouldnt improve the squad. I'm only saying ETH can't finish 8th or regularly get stuffed by Brighton et all and use mcfred or Maguire or Rashford as an excuse. And by the way, he is a winner so he never would use it as an excuse, he will say the truth, that himself and the team need to prepare and play better.
 
I would love to hear Rangnick speak about his time at United. What he thought his role was going in, how his role was communicated within the club and in particular to players and coaching/backroom staff. When it became clear that the job he wanted to do wasn't the job the club wanted him to do and what happened thereafter.

If he could be convinced to speak out, it would give us all a much clearer idea of who the biggest actors in the club are. Is it the Glazers themselves or just the fools they've put in place? What are the actual goals and objectives of the club?

He did plenty of football talks before taking the United job didn't he? I wonder how much he charges and could enough of us chip in to hire him to speak in front of a camera for an hour or two.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
Every thread people say we need to forget about the 2nd 3rd stuff. The reason is because most of the nonsense arguments fall apart when you take it into account. Like when people say we can't expect to beat Brighton with mcfred, and I say they were the major midfielders in a 2nd and 3rd place finish .. the response is always 'lets ignore that'

I'm not saying we shouldnt improve the squad. I'm only saying ETH can't finish 8th or regularly get stuffed by Brighton et all and use mcfred or Maguire or Rashford as an excuse. And by the way, he is a winner so he never would use it as an excuse, he will say the truth, that himself and the team need to prepare and play better.
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The reason people tell you to ignore it is because the teams around us where in much worse shape that season, and no players in the stands. Its a nothing argument.
You dont get top 4 with this team anymore. Its simple as that.
 
Lyng said:
The reason people tell you to ignore it is because the teams around us where in much worse shape that season, and no players in the stands. Its a nothing argument.
You dont get top 4 with this team anymore. Its simple as that.
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Why does this matter more for Utd than the other clubs? (I assume you meant fans by the way)
 
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