Ralf Rangnick's consultancy role has been scrapped

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Yakuza_devils said:
This guy has right track records, experience, contacts and vision to be DOF compared to fecking Murtough.

But he rocks the boat too much. He has to go because he can't kept his mouth shut and toe the company line.
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This but you know whats odd? The Glazers need a guy like him much mire that they need an ETH or a Murtough because he is one guy amongst maybe three in the game who can build competitive sides on low budgets and knows enough around sports science to bring about improvement in the players we already have.

Coming into the summer we needed around six starters, I have no doubt in mind that he would have got us that number for a net spend of around £150m - £180m. People let results with a disinterested and treacherous squad get the better of their judgement and lost sight of what he could give us in the long term.

A bolder, smarter club would have jettisoned Murtough and installed Ralf. Instead we are being exposed to Murtough and ETH's joint naivety, chasing after an unwilling player for thirteen weeks and hedging the whole summer on that particular deal. This wasn't the summer for that nonsense, this was the summer we needed workmen like signings to make us a solid side and build from there.
 
Vapor trail said:
I think the modern era of football the onfield success is 50/50 between the manager and the DOF.
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Probably true.

In the case of some (and they're few and far between) "managers" (head coaches) - it's more like 65/35, I suspect.

But the point still stands - yes, certainly.

That doesn't mean we should have hired Ralf as a DOF, though.

He's never done anything comparable to turning around a sleeping giant like United.

But - yes, absolutely, hiring him as an interim coach with zero intention of using him in anything like a DOF capacity, seems random.

I would love to learn - one day - what the actual process behind it all was.

Even if the idea was to use him as a "consultant" (whatever the feck that was supposed to be) - and that went out the window when he was offered the Austria gig (ridiculous in itself, really - if you consider someone a top, top "consultant" who is central to your plans, you don't suddenly let him go because he gets an offer from a national team), the whole thing just looks like an absolute clusterfeck.

The one who came out of this with a gigantic question mark over his head was Murtough.
 
stevoc said:
So you think it's possible that a top coach can't get a tune out of an entire squad full of internationals?

Even Solakjaer got the majority of this squad performing well for good stretches. So I find it hard to believe given a few months and maybe one or two more signings that Ten Hag wouldn't be able to improve the majority this team/squad compared to last season.
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Only when we were playing counter attacking football (we won without controlling the games), when he switched to possession based football it all went to shit.

Our players are not cut to play the way rangnick or ten hag like to play.

Either we revert back to counter attacking football or we gut the entire team like rangnick said.
 
diarm said:
Oh I assumed similar. But there are a lot of United fans - how many of us would have to chip in €20 to convince him to break that NDA?

Would be a great laugh as well - a Redcafe social, where we all get drunk and listen to Ralf bitch about Woodward and the Glazers.
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Feck 20 I'll chip in with 100 quid.
 
Rajma said:

He realizes this now that has been pointed out by Ralf ages ago, the physical side to be able to hold off the players and turn them is as important in the EPL. If only he bothered to actually sit down with Ralf to take notes before the season started…Bruno, Rashford, VDB, Ronaldo, etc. just lack physicality required at this level. Good thing is ETH is able to recognize this himself now while the window is still open.
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The assessment frame actually did its job. The club did something good and then undid it. The problem isn't even that he was sacked, it's they didn't even consider any of the valid recommendations he gave. He didn't make top 4 so everything he said was treated as worthless.

Fastforward to now, every mistake from this summer has a quote Ralf expressly identified and warned the hierarchy about, the need for two forwards, the dangers of leaving recruitment to one person, the midfield, every single mistake we overlooked, even his mistake of pandering too much to Ronaldo, he was ready to cut that cord months ago. If it was common sense then the current hierarchy are completely devoid of it.
 
Neil_Buchanan said:
He wanted Mukiele in January who has since joined PSG and looks a top prospect at right back. He was onto something, made a lot of sense when he spoke about signing players on their second contract still with a lot to prove. Funny how the narrative has changed about him from just one game.
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And alvares and diaz who eventually ended up at city and dippers.
 
mitchmouse said:
and who will spot that Arnold's just a Woodward mini-me?
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From what I’ve seen so far there is at least the possibility that he might not be. He doesn’t seem to be getting involved with transfers, unless Juve have foisted Rabiot on him. Our “targets” seem to have been decided upon by the manager rather than players’ agents and selling clubs, which is a big change.
 
If we're looking to identify the problems at United then letting Rangnick go isn't one of them, appointing him was. The guy had not got the credentials to be in manager role or DoF/consultant. He was a disaster and should have gone (along with whoever appointed him) well before the end of last season.

The fact he was right when he said we needed 10 new players isn't a reason to think better of him. Most of the posters here identified that.
 
m1tch said:
If we're looking to identify the problems at United then letting Rangnick go isn't one of them, appointing him was. The guy had not got the credentials to be in manager role or DoF/consultant. He was a disaster and should have gone (along with whoever appointed him) well before the end of last season.

The fact he was right when he said we needed 10 new players isn't a reason to think better of him. Most of the posters here identified that.
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:nervous:
 
VidaRed said:
:nervous:
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At what club the size of United has he shown he can successfully do that role? He's never worked in a top 4 league and he was in the obscurity of the Russian league when we took him. The guy was a absolute nobody.
 
m1tch said:
If we're looking to identify the problems at United then letting Rangnick go isn't one of them, appointing him was. The guy had not got the credentials to be in manager role or DoF/consultant. He was a disaster and should have gone (along with whoever appointed him) well before the end of last season.

The fact he was right when he said we needed 10 new players isn't a reason to think better of him. Most of the posters here identified that.
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Anyone who knows our squad is overrated is already an improvement on what we have at the club. Let's not act like it's a very high bar.

Ralf also said a lot more than needing a new team. I don't know why people have latched on to that one quote.
 
Greck said:
The assessment frame actually did its job. The club did something good and then undid it. The problem isn't even that he was sacked, it's they didn't even consider any of the valid recommendations he gave. He didn't make top 4 so everything he said was treated as worthless.

Fastforward to now, every mistake from this summer has a quote Ralf expressly identified and warned the hierarchy about, the need for two forwards, the dangers of leaving recruitment to one person, the midfield, every single mistake we overlooked, even his mistake of pandering too much to Ronaldo, he was ready to cut that cord months ago. If it was common sense then the current hierarchy are completely devoid of it.
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Yup.

And instead of analyzing all of the valuable insight the press and most of the caf was taking shots at the guy every chance, every slight misstep w his Austria role or smudge on his glasses.

Amazing that the toxic player power has reached so deep within the online fans. There's still a bunch of posters defending Henderson after his last outburst.

Hopefully ETH has learned his lesson as quickly as Rangnick did and even if it's belatedly so we see the squad change dramatically over the next two windows
 
From outside England and in other leagues Manchester United has been seen as a joke of a club because of their resources available and yet how shit they have been since SAF retired. My belief is that it has something to do with a lack of a modern structure and the culture within the team that allows mediocrity to be rewarded.

While the management has been terrible I'd say the cultural aspect is what's going to be harder to change within the club. Whenever someone has come to challenge the culture within the club they end up being antagonized, ridiculed and ultimately leaving the club without anything significant changing. I thought appointing Ragnick in the consultancy role was something clever for instance but then he was also heavily undermined in his role as a manager. He didn't got any signings and it was like the players couldn't care less about him. It would had been a change to side with him and follow his advice while having a clear direction independent of whom the manager is.

The fact it ended the way he did speaks volumes of the mediocre culture installed within the team in all levels, and is something it has shown on multiple instances.
 
Acheron said:
From outside England and in other leagues Manchester United has been seen as a joke of a club because of their resources available and yet how shit they have been since SAF retired. My belief is that it has something to do with a lack of a modern structure and the culture within the team that allows mediocrity to be rewarded.

While the management has been terrible I'd say the cultural aspect is what's going to be harder to change within the club. Whenever someone has come to challenge the culture within the club they end up being antagonized, ridiculed and ultimately leaving the club without anything significant changing. I thought appointing Rangnick in the consultancy role was something clever for instance but then he was also heavily undermined in his role as a manager. He didn't got any signings and it was like the players couldn't care less about him. It would had been a change to side with him and follow his advice while having a clear direction independent of whom the manager is.

The fact it ended the way he did speaks volumes of the mediocre culture installed within the team in all levels, and is something it has shown on multiple instances.
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The board have made the players ok with being rich and famous with no demand for success. We'll make a load of money upstairs, you be a star. Dont worry about the trophies, we dont
 
m1tch said:
The fact he was right when he said we needed 10 new players isn't a reason to think better of him. Most of the posters here identified that.
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A blank statement. The first step of fixing something is admitting it's indeed broken which club(and partly ETH) refuses to do so.
Most caf posters would find McFred replacements before this window even started, yes. But do you see it's what happening right now? When you had someone in the right position and was pushing for that idea, what happened to him?

What you said only make sense for real football club, United is not a football club. Owners are here to create contents, good or bad, doesn't matter, as long as it get clicks. Social media interaction is just numbers, an article saying United is horsecrap is worth as much as someone saying United is Best club in the world. Brand recognition is our number 1 priority, the fanbase(and anti-fanbase) is so massive that United can sustain themselves without winning trophies and owners know that.
We are marketing firm, football is just a sideshow. What Ralf Rangnick did went against company' interest and they binned him for that.
 
Godfather said:
He wasn't a good coach. But he's shown time and time again that he knows how to build a football club. His opinions on the players should have been listened to. He was fecking right about them. But that would have been proper expensive wouldn't it.
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He should have been allowed to do the job he was hired for.
 
Loon said:
He should have been allowed to do the job he was hired for.
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He did the job he was hired for and he did it poorly. Now he's gone and Man United is better off for it. End of story.
 
Hansi Fick said:
He did the job he was hired for and he did it poorly. Now he's gone and Man United is better off for it. End of story.
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Better off? Judging by the carnage surrounding the club and transfer window, and the village idiot that is Murtough running amok, hamfistedly decimating the season, I really don’t think we are better off. We needed definite direction, got rid of the one guy who has been decisive in his criticism and advice, and are now left rudderless, amateur and going after the likes of Arnautovich and Rabiot, in the vain hope it will salvage anything. Better off is a subjective view
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Probably true.

In the case of some (and they're few and far between) "managers" (head coaches) - it's more like 65/35, I suspect.

But the point still stands - yes, certainly.

That doesn't mean we should have hired Ralf as a DOF, though.

He's never done anything comparable to turning around a sleeping giant like United.

But - yes, absolutely, hiring him as an interim coach with zero intention of using him in anything like a DOF capacity, seems random.

I would love to learn - one day - what the actual process behind it all was.

Even if the idea was to use him as a "consultant" (whatever the feck that was supposed to be) - and that went out the window when he was offered the Austria gig (ridiculous in itself, really - if you consider someone a top, top "consultant" who is central to your plans, you don't suddenly let him go because he gets an offer from a national team), the whole thing just looks like an absolute clusterfeck.

The one who came out of this with a gigantic question mark over his head was Murtough.
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Well we now see Ralf was never the problem. ETH could have used some of Ralf’s insight into the squad as he worked with them for 6 mths. Instead ETH thought he could rehabilitate McFred. He returned him to no. 6 where 2 previous managers had realized he couldn’t do it and even when it started going awry ETH didn’t change fast enough. He had said he could train a squad member to do the DeJong role and he must have meant Fred… now he knows but unfortunately lots of transfers have happened and all available midfielders gone.
 
m1tch said:
At what club the size of United has he shown he can successfully do that role? He's never worked in a top 4 league and he was in the obscurity of the Russian league when we took him. The guy was a absolute nobody.
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wow..that is extremely harsh. I am sure Edu has nothing like Ralf's CV or experience before he joined Arsenal.
 
mitchmouse said:
what? can't make sense of what you are saying... no one has a temperament? Everyone has one...
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No, no one has an explanation for why they think we uniquely benefitted from no fans in the stadiums.
 
VidaRed said:
Only when we were playing counter attacking football (we won without controlling the games), when he switched to possession based football it all went to shit.

Our players are not cut to play the way rangnick or ten hag like to play.

Either we revert back to counter attacking football or we gut the entire team like rangnick said.
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I find it hard to believe that the majority of this squad can only play one style of football well.

They need a top coach to well, coach them.
 
I think it's pretty amazing that Ralf was willing to take on the challenge when we do in fact need 10 new players. He's so calm and forthright, it was so refreshing to hear. Definitely still think we should have kept him as DOF, but we know so little about what goes on behind the scenes, we can only guess.

I feel like we miss his scouting skills, our transfer options have lacked creativity and does not bespeak of a broad ranging network.
 
I really wish we had kept him on in some capacity. ETH cannot do it all on his own and our club structure is mot going to give him much in the way of support. For all his flaws managing the first team, Rangnick spoke feckloads of sense and actually has competence in an executive / club building role unlike the feckers who fired him who want to do bare minimum and not even do that well.

We needed a revolution. Instead were getting mediocrity yet again.
 
stevoc said:
I find it hard to believe that the majority of this squad can only play one style of football well.

They need a top coach to well, coach them.
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Shaw Maguire and Rashford can't be coached. They are what they are.
 
When are we expecting a tell-all exposé from Ralf of his time here? That might hasten the departure of the Glazers
 
stevoc said:
I find it hard to believe that the majority of this squad can only play one style of football well.

They need a top coach to well, coach them.
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I believe top class coaching can have a big impact but it really depends on the player. And we have a fair few footballers either whose careers have fallen away or simply don't have the tools to play possession football. For example Dalot and Mctominay, I struggle to see these two ever being good enough. One is a CM who can't pass and the other is bang average at everything. Then you have the likes of Rashford who has completely fallen off of a cliff like Dele Ali. This happens to some players who never recover. Martial is now made of glass. Shaw is an example of a player who has all the ability but has under multiple managers lacked intensity. Can ETH change that? Maybe but the odds are in favour this just being Shaws personality. DDG is a keeper who has been awful in his passing for years now. He's over 30. Hard to see a manager suddenly changing that.

For me there are players who can get better but for many we'd be better off accepting them for what they are. Would be nice go get a surprise but when you are ambitious you can't pin your hopes on mediocrity.
 
Wonder if this thread would have surfaced if Bruno's first half chance had gone in against Brighton and we ended up marginally winning? Either way I'm not sure if RR would have been able to get our stubborn board to listen. He didn't seem to have much clout in that regard
 
duffer said:
He'd have been paid off.

They do it at Chelsea all the time. We've sacked a million managers over the years but there's never any juicy exposes from them.
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Yup. By all accounts he signed an NDA when he left.
 
“The answer at the time was: ‘No, there is no player on the market that can really help us.’” He went on to reveal the three targets, all of which have now been snapped up by top clubs. “There were a few: Díaz who is now at Liverpool, Álvarez who will be at Man City in the summer, Vlahovic who at the time was with Fiorentina." He finished: “So those are just three of them that come across my mind now. The answer was no and that was it." - ralf rangnick
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Ah what it would be like to have a real director of football... such a shame.

Theres a reason modern clubs don't just hand managers full control, its expensive and you spend far longer than necessary on players that may not even come (Moyes with Fabregas Bale etc). A DoF and the recruitment team is ultimately supposed to to draw up a list of players based on ablity and contract situation etc, that the "manager" doesn't even need to be informed on its assumed the DoF and their team has enough football knowledge to understand what players would go with what style of football, particularly the manager they have just hired.

DRJosh said:
Wonder if this thread would have surfaced if Bruno's first half chance had gone in against Brighton and we ended up marginally winning? Either way I'm not sure if RR would have been able to get our stubborn board to listen.
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Its not about the result though that would be being disengenuous, the window was rotten even before they panicked bought Rabiot and Arnautovic. The fact they did actually panic after one result is even worse, at its most basic level it means they believed the squad was better than it was and that they actually could have the patience to "wait for the right players".
 
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His performance as a coach wasn't up to par, but lots of what he said has merit. The people at the top are constantly promoting from within as they don't want people from the outside coming in with fresh eyes and calling a spade a spade.

Case in point, Murtough and Arnold were given top jobs after being Woody's cronies for the past decade rather than seeking best in class appointments elsewhere. The result is our worst summer window since Moyes with ETH appointment as the one positive change of the 'new regime'.
 
DRJosh said:
Wonder if this thread would have surfaced if Bruno's first half chance had gone in against Brighton and we ended up marginally winning? Either way I'm not sure if RR would have been able to get our stubborn board to listen. He didn't seem to have much clout in that regard
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This is the exact same way we lost many games under Ralf. It's not some anomalous bad luck that made it happen. Bruno missed some horrible sitters that cost Ralf as well. It was actually shocking how much of yesterday carried over from last season.
 
VidaRed said:
Only when we were playing counter attacking football (we won without controlling the games), when he switched to possession based football it all went to shit.

Our players are not cut to play the way rangnick or ten hag like to play.

Either we revert back to counter attacking football or we gut the entire team like rangnick said.
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Except the facts don't support the notion that we were playing counterattack football in 20/21.
 
Greck said:
This is the exact same way we lost many games under Ralf. It's not some anomalous bad luck that made it happen. Bruno missed some horrible sitters that cost Ralf as well. It was actually shocking how much of yesterday carried over from last season.
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This is our first competitive game under a new manager 9 of the starting 11 is the same. It was obvious how it was going to fold out. This is going to be a loooooong season (not in a good way). We might look more like a football team after the World Cup.
 
Hansi Fick said:
He did the job he was hired for and he did it poorly. Now he's gone and Man United is better off for it. End of story.
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Clearly not. If we had hired the players Rangnick wanted in January we would be much better of. Now we are apparently hunting Rabiot, Arnautovich and some non talent Bayern want to get rid of.
 
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