Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?

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MadDogg said:
Ralf has a 1.65 points per game in the league since taking over, which is an improvement over Ole's 1.41 before he got fired this season. It's better than Mourinho's 1.61 the season he got fired. Just below Moyes 1.67 (with a team that was the defending champion), and LVG's 1.73 in his second season.

Is it good enough? Of course not. But people are going overboard talking about him as if he is by far the worst of them all, considering that he walked into by far the worst situation out of any of them. Obviously the last 6-7 weeks has been a shit show (although still better than what we were doing under Ole), but before that he'd done a decent job stabilising the ship. It should also be noted that recently he's had about 9 players out who would all have been expected to start a significant amount of matches at the start of the season.
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How exactly?

Ralf's overall win percentage 40% is now lower than the teams win percentage in the 20 games before he took over 45% (and even slightly worse than just Solskjaer's record over 17 games this season that seen him rightly sacked). Since the 1-0 win over West Ham in January we've only won 4 out of 15 games, losing 6 and drawing 5. By any metric that's shocking form, most probably the worst period of form the club has experienced in decades.

If he is making strong recommendations behinds the scenes that the board are listening to, then it'll end up being well worth it IMO. Obviously we would have hoped that he would have got top 4, but the most important thing for me was always that he'd provide a proper review of the football side of the club by a person with experience in doing so.
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And if he isn't being listened to?
 
marcus agrippa said:
Don't project, mate. I'm not angry. I gave up on the season after the 0-5 against Liverpool, and have been waiting for it to end since then. What I'm looking for is proper decision-making, based on evidence, not emotion, or short-termist thinking.

I do, however, think Rashford has hit his ceiling, and that a while ago. His problem is simple: he doesn't use his brain. So unless ETH can do his thinking for him, or provide a system that makes him not have to use his brain, he's done.

And sorry, but making it to elite sports doesn't make you successful enough to be a Man Utd player. I should think that obvious.
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Definitely. I thought we share a lot opinions in common actually. The main difference is whether those two are really so bad.
ETH can’t success if the sporting structure is still poor. They are making changes now. I just hope the decision makers do not fail once, once, once again.
 
Andrade said:
You're saying the players don't necessarily have inherent bad attitudes but they've developed bad attitudes. Whose job is it to ensure as much as possible that this doesn't happen?
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Again: what's that got to do with anything? It's called a 'thread' for a reason. Follow the thread of the argument, then come back to me.

Also: Are you joking? Do you recall anything of Solskjaer's final months in charge, or do I need to spell it out? This is what RR walked into.
 
city-puma said:
Definitely. I thought we share a lot opinions in common actually. The main difference is whether those two are really so bad.
ETH can’t success if the sporting structure is still poor. They are making changes now. I just hope the decision makers do not fail once, once, once again.
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For the first time in a long time, I'm hopeful. Because we've hired a manager that is on the up. And I also hear noises that we're changing the structure of the club. Fingers crossed we make the right decisions.

And we'll finally be getting a clear-out after all these years, forced because of contracts running out. I'm just really, really, really glad Woodward's gone, though. What a disaster.

But it's the hope that kills you ...
 
stevoc said:
How exactly?

Ralf's overall win percentage 40% is now lower than the teams win percentage in the 20 games before he took over 45% (and even slightly worse than just Solskjaer's record over 17 games this season that seen him rightly sacked). Since the 1-0 win over West Ham in January we've only won 4 out of 15 games, losing 6 and drawing 5. By any metric that's shocking form, most probably the worst period of form the club has experienced in decades.



And if he isn't being listened to?
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We literally experienced similar or worse form with Ole.

People are starting to rewrite history now.

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That's our league run-in before Ole got sacked. That is a criminal run of form that derailed our season.
 
Irwin99 said:
That, the batsh*t crazy dismissal of Liverpool's injury crisis last season, and the belief that although Ole was sacked he left the club with a proper, decent squad, far better than he found it, looks insane in hindsight. The reality is, like Jose's second place finish, we really flattered to deceive last season and things have come back to bite us as they did back in the 18-19 season.
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The problem highlighted here is that we've never traded up.

We could have swapped out Jose after his second season (at which point anyone who'd been paying attention knew a meltdown was coming), or swapped out Ole after the Europa final. Our willingness to let managers spend 4 weeks minimum in an untenable position before considering a change is a problem, because we're just in this endless cycle of killing the squad and then hoping for somebody to lift us off the floor.

If the benchmark is Liverpool and City, neither of the managers who preceeded Klopp or Pep left their clubs in crisis mode. Both of them saw an opportunity to trade upwards in a key position, brought their managers into a relatively comfortable situation and worked from there.

Surely everyone has noticed that going from absolute despair to pinning all of your hopes on one guy to be a saviour isnt working?

We've got Ten Hag coming into a war zone and hopefully he's the messiah, sure. But in the very likely possibility that he isn't, I hope we have another manager in mind who can take over without having to burn it all down again.
 
marcus agrippa said:
Again: what's that got to do with anything? It's called a 'thread' for a reason. Follow the thread of the argument, then come back to me.

Also: Are you joking? Do you recall anything of Solskjaer's final months in charge, or do I need to spell it out? This is what RR walked into.
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With respect, you responded to me, I didn't respond to you. And I know exactly what I said and what I was responding to, so I'm not sure what your point is.

Both Ole and Rangnick have not done good jobs and neither has Woodward or the behind the scenes people. What about the above do you disagree with?
 
Andrade said:
With respect, you responded to me, I didn't respond to you. And I know exactly what I said and what I was responding to, so I'm not sure what your point is.

Both Ole and Rangnick have not done good jobs and neither has Woodward or the behind the scenes people. What about the above do you disagree with?
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Correction: I responded to a particular part of what you said:

Let's look at it logically. The United squad is full of high-priced, high-profile players. These players were expensive for a reason. They had success elsewhere. So if their attitudes are all so bad, why were they successful elsewhere?
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So I don't see what bringing Rangnick into it has anything to do with anything. This is a guy who's just come in mid-season to put out fires and get the team in the CL (presumably).

And yes, I agree that neither Solskjaer nor RR have covered themselves in glory; and Woodward is best forgotten. What I disagree with is that the players are blameless, and pointing to their cost as proof isn't convincing because Maguire and AWB. Our recruitment (and you yourself admit that our behind-the-scenes people are culpable) has been diabolical. Dishing out contracts left and right, refusing to let disgruntled players leave; making false promises on playing time (Solskjaer's fault), etc. ... all these caused problems way before RR even got here. He's tried to rectify it by letting DVB (remember him slamming his fist against the back of a chair, and Bailly having to console him? Ole's time, mate!) and Martial go out on loan, but had to keep Lingard because of the Greenwood situation. Getting him to carry the can for this mess is too simplistic.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
We literally experienced similar or worse form with Ole.

People are starting to rewrite history now.

35af3de799ecdca38f5ab25c002c6016.png


That's our league run-in before Ole got sacked. That is a criminal run of form that derailed our season.
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Fair enough some exaggeration on my part with the decades bit, but it is shocking form by any metric. Also why only bring up league games and why only cherry pick 7 games when I was referring to our last 15 games over the last 3 months in all competitions under Ralf.

Why not a like for like comparison of Solskjaer's disastrous last 17 games in all comps that lead to him being sacked and the last 17 under Rangnick?

Solskjaer - P17 W7 D3 L7 GF28 GA29 GD-1
Rangnick -P17 W6 D5 L6 GF23 GA25 GD-2
 
Giggsy13 said:
INTERIM manager with a 2 year consultancy role. What do you think is the more significant role? It’s an easy one, I’m sure you and others will figure it out soon.
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Manager is the most significant role. Interim or not. We don't even know what "consultant" means in this case.

Any type of manager, in any company, makes some decisions (at least some decisions). Consultants usually make no decisions, they only write reports that the managers may or may not take into account.
 
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stevoc said:
Fair enough some exaggeration on my part with the decades bit, but it is shocking form by any metric. Also why only bring up league games and why only cherry pick 7 games when I was referring to our last 15 games over the last 3 months in all competitions under Ralf.

Why not a like for like comparison of Solskjaer's disastrous last 17 games in all comps that lead to him being sacked and the last 17 under Rangnick?

Solskjaer - P17 W7 D3 L7 GF28 GA29 GD-1
Rangnick -P17 W6 D5 L6 GF23 GA25 GD-2
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Because A) recent results give a better indication of the direction you are headed in hence a board judging Ole would give far more importance to abysmal form in the last 7 than a few wins before that. B) Ole was managing the team when we completely fell apart so he has a big hand in our failures this season as a whole (not just till he was sacked). This void of confidence and disharmony happened under his tutelage. Rangnick couldn't fix it of course.
 
didz said:
The consultancy thing - as reported at the time - was a sweetener to get him to leave his long term contract at Lokomotiv. Also, as reported at the time and since, nobody has any idea what Rangnick's "upstairs" gig will actually entail.

Rangnick himself has publicly stated that he has no idea what his consultancy role will involve or what his day-to-day will be, or how much weight his words will have. We'll more than likely be paying him 6 figures to pick up the phone twice a month a thousand miles from Manchester.

The idea that we got him as a consultant first and an interim second is not at all supported by reports, reason or Rangnick himself.
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Exactly.

This should be stickied somewhere.

All the reports around Ralfs "move upstairs" are as clear as mud.
 
didz said:
The consultancy thing - as reported at the time - was a sweetener to get him to leave his long term contract at Lokomotiv. Also, as reported at the time and since, nobody has any idea what Rangnick's "upstairs" gig will actually entail.

Rangnick himself has publicly stated that he has no idea what his consultancy role will involve or what his day-to-day will be, or how much weight his words will have. We'll more than likely be paying him 6 figures to pick up the phone twice a month a thousand miles from Manchester.

The idea that we got him as a consultant first and an interim second is not at all supported by reports, reason or Rangnick himself. And yet its the people who have paid attention to the reports and to reason and to Rangnick himself that "don't get it."
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I have pointed this out many times since the beginning that the club did not have a plan to use him in any meaningful way in the long term at first (or later). People kept telling us how he would transform us in the long term to defend him whenever the results were not good enough. And, there is this ridiculous notion that someone has to manage the squad so that they can overhaul the squad or suggest to the club what players they should get. Even most successful DOFs did not go through that process. In fact, he was an example of it and had enough experience to do whatever this consultancy stuff without managing the squad here first. In reality, the club was desperate at that point and someone from the club bought the hype of this guy and signed him while hoping he would get us playing some hipster style football and get top 4 within this season.

It was just another fecked-up decision by the upper management. Nothing really to see there.
 
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I think the results of his term as manager have been poor. How much is due to the fact that he is interim amd the players don't care I don't know. I think the Glazers hoped he could perform a miracle and get top 4. But without investing in January, I think they probably were not that serious about making top 4. Anyway, it no longer matters. Clean slate incoming. And Ralf will use his stint as interim to point out which parts need pruning and which parts need burning.
 
Marcus said:
I think the results of his term as manager have been poor. How much is due to the fact that he is interim amd the players don't care I don't know. I think the Glazers hoped he could perform a miracle and get top 4. But without investing in January, I think they probably were not that serious about making top 4. Anyway, it no longer matters. Clean slate incoming. And Ralf will use his stint as interim to point out which parts need pruning and which parts need burning.
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The club IS always SERIOUS about making the top 4 of course. Are we crazy to think they don't care about extra money and more potential for commercial purposes? That's what Glazers is all about owning this club.

Even avoiding the drama and circus as much as possible while making the top 4 quietly this season would have been their intention. But RR made sure that it didn't happen, rightly or wrongly.
 
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The United said:
The club IS always SERIOUS about making the top 4 of course. Are we crazy to think they don't care about extra money and more potential for commercial purposes? That's what Glazers is all about owning this club.

Even avoiding the drama and circus as much as possible while making the top 4 quietly this season would have been their intention. But RR made sure that it didn't happen, rightly or wrongly.
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Then they Glazers took a massive risk not signing anyone. A risk that has not paid off. Someone should ask Ralf if he recommended signing anyone in January.
 
mu4c_20le said:
The board was ready to give him the job full time if he'd done well. He himself refused to rule that out after a decent start.

Some of you are giving the club way too much credit for thinking they were planning for ETH all along.
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Where are you getting that from? All Ralf has ever said about it, is that he may suggest he spends more time with the players if they’re responding well to his methods.. for example in the case that the manager they want full time isn’t available at the end of the season, journos were pressing him to say he wanted the job full time and he swatted it away constantly.
 
I understand the desperation to push RR deep into the ground but even without context, with your best efforts, he wont reach Ole`s level of depths. RR failed, its simple as that, so better focus on parroting that. For me he made a wrong decision regarding squad, for others might be something else, if he reached top 4 shit, i bet good portion wouldnt say a peep.
 
Bebestation said:
Watching how average this manager has been - I really miss Carrick.

Even if he was an average interim managed- I feel that he could have learnt stuff from Ten Hag and Rangnick aswell.

I wish he never left.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mi.../man-utd-miserable-league-record-26781088.amp
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I think it would have made more sense to leave Carrick in til the end of the season and have a clean start in the summer. He never stood a change though, too closely associated with Ole and people slated him for his demeanour in front of camera.
 
Berbasbullet said:
Agreed, shame our fans hounded him out the club.
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To be fair, it was only some online fans (influenced by Goldbridge etc) + a few ex-Utd pundits trying way too hard to make up for their previous Ole-bias. The fans were singing "Can't believe it's not Scholes … it's Carrick you know" in all the games he was in charge.

Which was rather ironic as Scholes himself said the whole coaching team should have felt embarrassed staying at the club after Ole got sacked. Hot take that, yes, Paul, we should have sacked everyone right away and let the tea lady in charge for Villareal, Chelsea and Arsenal! Keane said something similar but he's always hated Carrick even in his playing days.

As much as I was impressed with Carrick's stint though, I doubt appointing him till the end of the season ever crossed the board's mind, and honestly, it shouldn't have. It's really only with hindsight that we now know Carrick might have got better results than an experienced interim like Rangnick, giving a young coach who literally never managed anywhere the Man Utd job for 6 months would have been straight-up negligent. Even if ten years from now, Carrick's to prove himself as the next Pep/ SAF, he simply didn't merit that job at that particular point of his career.
 
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The United said:
The club IS always SERIOUS about making the top 4 of course. Are we crazy to think they don't care about extra money and more potential for commercial purposes? That's what Glazers is all about owning this club.

Even avoiding the drama and circus as much as possible while making the top 4 quietly this season would have been their intention. But RR made sure that it didn't happen, rightly or wrongly.
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How much do we get for getting into the top 4? Probably not as much money as it would have cost to make decent signings in January.
 
Just read up that players have been ignoring RR instructions when he’s given them a pattern of play in certain matches. He’s also shocked that the players lack physicality and fitness. This is an urgent area to address in the summer, we need at least 2 hard working running midfielders aswell as a playmaker. Halve of that team need shipping out, it’s clear a lot of them don’t like each other and it’s showing on the pitch. When RR took over as caretaker he had no idea how bad the club was being run but I’m confident that now he knows what the problems are once he moves into his new role he will solve them. If we had the right players we could of easily made top 4, If the players are choosing to ignore there managers instructions then that’s a joke and they should just be released. No wonder no manager can implement there style or play when you’ve got a bunch of amateurs ignoring the instructions and doing what the hell they want. Broken club that needs fixing.
 
Rangnick has easily been the worst manager at United post-Ferguson. He's got nothing going for him apart from being able to talk a good game. You can't slam Ole's tenure yet give Rangnick any praise or credit. Doesn't make any sense.

He was brought in primarily to manage the team, arrest the decline and somehow secure a top 4 position. He has failed miserably on all counts and has had long enough to establish at least some improvement. If he was a permanent manager, he would have been sacked on this form.

I can't wait to see the back of him. He's done nothing for this club whatsoever.
 
All this “he will solve everything once he moves into his new role” talk is pure nonsense. Firstly, the so called ‘new role’ is supposed to be a consultant role which is a pretty limited role for a club of our size. Some of you make it sound like he’s the new DOF and will be given the keys to Old Trafford. Secondly, we don’t even know if there is a ‘new role’ or if that solely was a PR gimmick. We’ve seen it before with this club, after every shitshow they love using buzzwords and how they now will use innovative methods to become the best in the world etc. Fast forward and nothing happens.

He may give ETH some pointers but anyone believing he will have any real influence is in for a rude awakening.
 
His stint as interim is just disastrous but what everyone hoped he would do he is doing. He is brutally exposing these frauds of the players and pushing the board for drastic changes. This is what we need no matter how ugly it looks.

Obviously it would be good to secure top 4 but if that happened there would be voices in the board saying that this squad does not need a total revamp (which I think we all agree it bloody needs!).
 
RedPed said:
Rangnick has easily been the worst manager at United post-Ferguson. He's got nothing going for him apart from being able to talk a good game. You can't slam Ole's tenure yet give Rangnick any praise or credit. Doesn't make any sense.

He was brought in primarily to manage the team, arrest the decline and somehow secure a top 4 position. He has failed miserably on all counts and has had long enough to establish at least some improvement. If he was a permanent manager, he would have been sacked on this form.

I can't wait to see the back of him. He's done nothing for this club whatsoever.
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Agreed he’s been pretty awful as a manager, especially as a motivator.

Any decent interim would have given the players a lift and we’d have seen improved results, even if the players are a useless, snide bunch of cnuts. We’ve seen it happen time and time again, we have the finest example of it in Solskjaer’s time as interim - that’s why we have the term “new manager bounce”

Not seen even a shred of the above with Ralf, and he’s been getting away with murder in terms of his performances. The only reason he has a hardcore following, and the press hasn’t gone to town on him is because he is saying everything the fan/journo wants to hear, and he’s bringing the drama.

I disagree with the final point about him doing nothing for the club, he’s been the one that the hierarchy have finally listened to about the running of the club being awful - but I woul argue that might be as much down to Ed Woodward no longer pulling the strings rather than Ralf’s incredible persuasive powers.

That, or we’ve been so unbelievably shit under Ralf that Murtough has convinced himself it could only be the players and that he didn’t make a terrible mistake hiring Ralf.
 
Biggins said:
His stint as interim is just disastrous but what everyone hoped he would do he is doing. He is brutally exposing these frauds of the players and pushing the board for drastic changes. This is what we need no matter how ugly it looks.
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I hoped he would get the players transitioning towards playing a more cohesive attacking style, with tighter defense, thus getting them away from the randomness of Oleball. I didn't want the team to be in tatters, bereft of confidence and with no idea how to pass a ball.

I did hope he would also work with the club on modernising and streamlining the structure. This seems to be happening though it doesn't look like he has been involved.

I'm not sure when the stated goal amongst fans became exposing the fraudulent players, but eh, it wasn't my hope for his tenure.
 
RedPed said:
Rangnick has easily been the worst manager at United post-Ferguson. He's got nothing going for him apart from being able to talk a good game. You can't slam Ole's tenure yet give Rangnick any praise or credit. Doesn't make any sense.

He was brought in primarily to manage the team, arrest the decline and somehow secure a top 4 position. He has failed miserably on all counts and has had long enough to establish at least some improvement. If he was a permanent manager, he would have been sacked on this form.

I can't wait to see the back of him. He's done nothing for this club whatsoever.
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I believe that he was signed to initiate real change and I have the feeling that he's succeeding in doing so.

In your situation, I would gladly trade top 4 for finally being set on the right course. You'll profit from it in the long run.

So to speak, Solskjaer stood for rverything wrong with this club. Nepotism, nostalgia and superficialty. Rangnick isn't the saviour but he at least is an agent of modernization for you.
 
sugar_kane said:
Agreed he’s been pretty awful as a manager, especially as a motivator.

Any decent interim would have given the players a lift and we’d have seen improved results, even if the players are a useless, snide bunch of cnuts. We’ve seen it happen time and time again, we have the finest example of it in Solskjaer’s time as interim - that’s why we have the term “new manager bounce”

Not seen even a shred of the above with Ralf, and he’s been getting away with murder in terms of his performances. The only reason he has a hardcore following, and the press hasn’t gone to town on him is because he is saying everything the fan/journo wants to hear, and he’s bringing the drama.

I disagree with the final point about him doing nothing for the club, he’s been the one that the hierarchy have finally listened to about the running of the club being awful - but I woul argue that might be as much down to Ed Woodward no longer pulling the strings rather than Ralf’s incredible persuasive powers.

That, or we’ve been so unbelievably shit under Ralf that Murtough has convinced himself it could only be the players and that he didn’t make a terrible mistake hiring Ralf.
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The fact that he even has a following or any admirers is bizarre. In terms of not doing anything for the club, like he said, you don't need glasses to see what's going on and it's not rocket science.

I'm sure they came to those conclusions themselves. You or I could have gone in there and told them the same thing. I stand by my original comments. He's done absolutely nothing for the club and I would even argue he's made things worse because top 4 was a real possibility and the team is at an all-time low. Six months he's been here. By the end of it his tenure wil only be a couple of months less than Moyes.
 
Samid said:
All this “he will solve everything once he moves into his new role” talk is pure nonsense. Firstly, the so called ‘new role’ is supposed to be a consultant role which is a pretty limited role for a club of our size. Some of you make it sound like he’s the new DOF and will be given the keys to Old Trafford. Secondly, we don’t even know if there is a ‘new role’ or if that solely was a PR gimmick. We’ve seen it before with this club, after every shitshow they love using buzzwords and how they now will use innovative methods to become the best in the world etc. Fast forward and nothing happens.

He may give ETH some pointers but anyone believing he will have any real influence is in for a rude awakening.
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Which is why he's the perfect person to start exposing these players. He has no affinity to the club and next season he is a consultant. Let him take care of the ugly things so ETH can walk in next season without having to deal with all those headaches. Of course we all know the driver next season will be ETH. He will be the one that determine the future of this club. The rest are there to support him.
 
Zehner said:
I believe that he was signed to initiate real change and I have the feeling that he's succeeding in doing so.

In your situation, I would gladly trade top 4 for finally being set on the right course. You'll profit from it in the long run.

So to speak, Solskjaer stood for rverything wrong with this club. Nepotism, nostalgia and superficialty. Rangnick isn't the saviour but he at least is an agent of modernization for you.
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This is very much the best summary of the situation.
 
stevoc said:
Not sure about that to be honest there has been talk even from himself that he has signed a contract which would usually mean he is an employee.

But yeah at this stage I reckon he'll be an occasional advisor and not much more. Certainly not the de facto DOF many had the impression he would be.
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You could be right, but I read it as that the contract is with his company for a certain period of consultancy.

If he was employed by the club directly, he surely would have been given a proper title?
 
Zehner said:
I believe that he was signed to initiate real change and I have the feeling that he's succeeding in doing so.

In your situation, I would gladly trade top 4 for finally being set on the right course. You'll profit from it in the long run.

So to speak, Solskjaer stood for rverything wrong with this club. Nepotism, nostalgia and superficialty. Rangnick isn't the saviour but he at least is an agent of modernization for you.
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We didn't have to sacrifice 6 months, or 8 months when he's gone, for that. He could have done all that from 'upstairs'. This weird rationalisation of his time here just because he has spoken a few home truths is just baffling.

He was brought in primarily as manager. All this consultancy crap hasn't even kicked in yet. He even says so at every press conference that his focus has been on the games and he has had no real involvement with what is happening behind the scenes. People are just reading too much into that side of things.

Bottom line is the guy has been a fraud and an unmitigated disaster.
 
RedPed said:
We didn't have to sacrifice 6 months, or 8 months when he's gone, for that. He could have done all that from 'upstairs'. This weird rationalisation of his time here just because he has spoken a few home truths is just baffling.

He was brought in primarily as manager. All this consultancy crap hasn't even kicked in yet. He even says so at every press conference that his focus has been on the games and he has had no real involvement with what is happening behind the scenes. People are just reading too much into that side of things.

Bottom line is the guy has been a fraud and an unmitigated disaster.
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There is a lot of value in assessing the squad for 6 months before making the important decisions.

Also no one knew the squad would be so petulant that they would outright ignore him.

He's not a fraud, that's just you chatting emotional bullshit.
 
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