Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?
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I'm not bothered by him telling it how it is in public. This squad has been pampered way too much. Doesn't mean he hasn't made mistakes as a manager but the things he says I feel he is right about.
You said "the state of the squad". The players we have available or don't have is nothing to do with him.Because they’re all playing shit, have zero confidence, zero motivation, and don’t know what they’re doing. But yeah, he’s only the manager, how could he possibly take responsibility for any of that
As far as performances go, a chunk of the squad never wanted him and still don't want him in the job now. Pretty hard to succeed at anything when a sizeable group of players have no intention of doing what you ask and actively want you out.
He walked into an absolute shitshow and I'm not really going to blame him for failing to singlehandedly turn it around in a matter of months.
interview early in the season, that young players are given too much too soon and dont listen to older players. He listened to senior players as a youngster as he understood they knew better
The retconning is insane. I've seen posts that genuinely argue that he was brought in to "expose" players... what!? Imagine your workplace put someone above you who's only job was to make you look crap at your job!
We were after an interim, we got Rangnick. I thought he would be a good fit, but I was clearly wrong. Changing the goalposts to the point where every loss somehow makes Rangnick better at a role he himself has admitted to having no clarity on is just crazy.
The players are crap, we all know that. But that doesn't mean that the guy who's calling them out has been anything short of a failure, unless you simply view success as repeating your own (admittedly valid) opinion back to you.
The consultancy thing - as reported at the time - was a sweetener to get him to leave his long term contract at Lokomotiv. Also, as reported at the time and since, nobody has any idea what Rangnick's "upstairs" gig will actually entail.
Rangnick himself has publicly stated that he has no idea what his consultancy role will involve or what his day-to-day will be, or how much weight his words will have. We'll more than likely be paying him 6 figures to pick up the phone twice a month a thousand miles from Manchester.
The idea that we got him as a consultant first and an interim second is not at all supported by reports, reason or Rangnick himself. And yet its the people who have paid attention to the reports and to reason and to Rangnick himself that "don't get it."
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Very true!
But again, I have to say again that I don’t blame him because you can’t blame someone who tried his best but just incapable for the job. It’s the board and owners to take the blame because they gave him the job.
He walked into a shitshow and made it worse, that takes some doing. Not a single player has performed well in his tenure. Not a single one. The man is a charlatan I’m afraid, hiding behind his ‘squad assessment’ narrative.
You seem to know an awful lot about being a premier league manager, came to offer some insight?Very true!
But again, I have to say again that I don’t blame him because you can’t blame someone who tried his best but just incapable for the job. It’s the board and owners to take the blame because they gave him the job.
By what metric?
yes they have
Show me stats that back that up?What metric
Let's look at it logically. The United squad is full of high-priced, high-profile players. These players were expensive for a reason. They had success elsewhere. So if their attitudes are all so bad, why were they successful elsewhere?
Clearly what has happened is that their attitudes have been allowed to deteriorate because they are operating in a poorly run institution with bad management on and off the pitch. If one or two are not performing then it might be an issue with those guys. If the whole bunch are lacklustre then there is clearly a much deeper problem.
Best post on him.
So now Maguire and AWB, were successful everywhere? A relegation veteran and a Crystal Palace youth player. Cost us 130 million for one reason, and we know what that is.
Cavani the perma-crock perhaps, but he hardly played for PSG toward the end either, and he came free, so ...
Bruno: started out well, but has deteriorated, so you may have a point with him. Sancho, maybe, but it's early days and I don't get that toxic vibe from him.
Varane: disappointing campaign because he's hardly played.
For me, it's a perfect confluence of really shitty things: a bloated squad on high wages, many of them without a hope in hell of playing (thanks, Solskjaer!) who then develop a festering resentment (see Bailly on Insta), and that infects the whole group.
I'm counting the days till summer, so we can be rid of the lot.
But he has been in a management role thus far. And now that he‘s failed miserably, the likelihood that he will be listened to about anything in the future is almost zero. ETH will come in with his own strategy and won’t need ponderous Ralph to advise him on what to do. It’s not the end of the world he stays in a consultancy role, but we shouldn’t expect it to make a meaningful difference in what ETH does.
I don’t know any insight.
Spot on. Many here just couldn’t even think about it. They have real belief on what they want to believe.
Or maybe we just go with the facts: AWB and Maguire cost 130 million. They were certainly not 'successful everywhere'.
If they cost that much at that time when we really need them, it’s reality. You could either buy them or not. We decided to buy with manutd tax because those were the priority to address. It’s life in the real world. I don’t get why you feel frustrated so much that the club spent so much on them. Maguire could be on the downward trend because he is getting older year by year just like any human being. But, still I feel ETH could be able to show that the majority of the players we keep can perform much better as a unit than we saw over last six months.
All of what you wrote is beside the point. The poster you quoted stated that they cost that much because they were 'successful elsewhere', and then proceeded to base his whole argument on that premise. Clearly Maguire and AWB were not 'successful everywhere'.
Logic dictates that if the premise on which the argument is based is false, the entire argument fails.
Any decent manager would come in and see the players first. ETH might agree with RR on some players and who to bring in etc.
But, to think that RR would have a lot of influence on what is going on in the field would be a stretch, especially, ETH is a successful manager in his own right, at least more than RR. We should be concerned if ETH listens and let RR influence him too much if anything.
That, the batsh*t crazy dismissal of Liverpool's injury crisis last season, and the belief that although Ole was sacked he left the club with a proper, decent squad, far better than he found it, looks insane in hindsight. The reality is, like Jose's second place finish, we really flattered to deceive last season and things have come back to bite us as they did back in the 18-19 season.
Well let's examine it shall we? Starting with the players you mentioned:
AWB: Named player of the year at Crystal Palace at age 21, just prior to his move to MU.
Maguire: Was in the Euros Team of the tournament and player of the season (according to the club and the fans) at Leicester.
Cavani: One of the best strikers of this generation, we don't need to go into his resume (24 trophies etc.). He's just old right now.
Bruno: Double Liga POTY, highest scoring midfielder in a season of all time in Portugal
Varane: 4 time CL and World Cup winner.
Sancho: One of the highest rated young players in the world, Bundesliga TOTY etc.
Then in addition you have people like Matic (Double PL and FA Cup winner), De Gea (once considered to be the best goalkeeper in the world) and Pogba (4 time Scudetto and World Cup winner).
Also, you have all the guys who came through the ranks like Rashford, Lingard and McTominay, who once showed such promise but are now floundering. And of course the small matter of Cristiano Ronaldo.
Am I supposed to believe that all (or the majority) of these people have inherent terrible attitudes? Or is it more that these resources have not been managed properly?
And when I say that, I'm fully aware that some of them (e g. the older ones) should never have been brought to the club in the first place. But that's all part of planning and proper management on and off the pitch.
You identify the right coach, he implements a system and you buy players to fit that system. A 3 stage process and it looks like United have made questionable decisions at every one of those stages.
Because they’re all playing shit, have zero confidence, zero motivation, and don’t know what they’re doing. But yeah, he’s only the manager, how could he possibly take responsibility for any of that
Thank God he came in and not someone else and he went gung ho here because of he didn't and wee managed too do well, we prob not have thought wee needed to get Hag and prob done something daft and got someone else and we still have the same players playing for us stinking it up and saying the same convo next season.
I think that's the problem. When you actually assess our squad, a lot of them have actually not had success elsewhere. Outside of Pogba, Bruno, Varane, Ronaldo, Maguire and Sancho...most were bought on the premise that despite the little amount of evidence we had, they would perform well in future. The likes of AWB, Shaw, Jones, Bailly, Rashford, Martial, Lingard, Mctominay, Lindelof, Dalot, Telles and Fred. We also bought Amad and Pellestri without them having any experience whatsoever. Cavani, Mata and Matic are too old to judge.
Rashford and Martial in particular were given chance after chance in situations no other young players would have gotten at other top clubs. Most of which they spent being ineffective and inconsistent. We did the same for Jones and Smalling in our defence. Fergie didn't just drop Giggs, Beckham and Scholes into his first xi's because they came from the academy. We played them because they showcased a level of quality that positioned them as near the top in the their positions in the league. United have done an Arsenal. We kept some of these players far too long without strict assessment. We overpaid them too early and pinned our hopes on our projection of their talent. We assumed that them coming in young and some being from the academy would make them more loyal and better personalities in the club. That hasn't worked out. We did this for too many players. Rooney was a star at Everton, Ronaldo was performing consistently before getting a guaranteed first xi spot. The closest thing Fergie did to this was give O'shea and Brown 2-3 seasons of constant starting opportunties. That did not work out, he quickly realized this, did not overhype them and allowed them to maintain squad roles that fit the qualities they had for us. Fergie also had the likes of Bellion, Chadwick, Gibson, Richardson and Liam Miller come through the ranks. However once it was shown that they did not perform to a standard worthy of premier league winners, they were binned. Richardson would still have been getting opportunities if he was in United at the moment, with some of our fans crying about managers not giving him chances.
If you think they are garbage players, I can’t help you. If you are just trying to vent your anger to our disastrous season and pick them up as scapegoats, I can understand you but don’t appreciate it. They are successful to be top of elite athletics. They are very good but also have certain limitations and flaws as anybody. Good system will use them to strengthen and hide their limitations. The manager is the one to find a solution and implement it.
It’s surreal seeing anyone give him any sort of praise. Pick any random bloke off the Caf and they could’ve done the same job he’s done. Come in, make the team play even worse, then proceed to call everyone and everything shit.
I didn't mean 'success' just in terms of trophies (although you admit that several of the squad have been successful by that measure).
If a player perform consistently well at a smaller club (that probably can't win trophies), that is a reason to buy them. Maybe too much was spent on some of these guys but I'm not really arguing that.
You're not going to get the finished article all the time. Or even most of the time. Once you get a player, it's your job to make him the finished article.
'Successful elsewhere'. Not successful 'everywhere'. And I meant in terms of performances as well. Those guys are English players which adds a lot to the cost. To buy cheaper, you've got to scout better and more widely.
I love the irony in players calling the Rangnick and the coaches shit making them snakes but Rangnick saying it about the players makes him a hero. Truth is they’re likely all useless cnuts.
Love it. Ralf destroying these useless players. Hope he continues to tell it like it is!
Is he though? Ole didn’t have the benefit of home and away fixtures against two of the bottom three. From fixtures against the same teams we faced under Ole, Rangnick has garnered 14 points. Ole had 17.
A couple of things ...
First, you're moving the goalposts here. I didn't mention any innate bad attitudes. This is what I quoted, and you said:
That is, you didn't mention inherent bad attitudes. This is different from developed bad attitudes, which I think is certainly the case at this club. Players come in, don't play after some time, and build resentment (see Bailly Insta post for a quick refresher).
Second, I acknowledged that Varane, Sancho and Fernandes may fit your narrative (expensive-but-successful-elsewhere players). Not so Maguire, not so AWB . You can talk all you want about player of the year, of the tournament, etc. All I see is four relegations and a youth player who's just had his first season at the top level; both of whom are now playing in an entirely different system, with different requirements. I mean, in what world does four relegations, etc. count as success for Man Utd? That's not an argument for expense correlating with success, because what success?
As I already said, Cavani certainly doesn't fit the criteria you mentioned (he came free, and PSG had him riding the bench toward the end). And there's no question he isn't really fussed about playing for us. We had to even beg him to give us one more season. His attitude sucks.
The rest of your post doesn't apply to anything I said, so ...
And whose job is it to manage and deal with that?
Players not playing will be resentful. There's nothing odd about that at all.
Not sure about that to be honest there has been talk even from himself that he has signed a contract which would usually mean he is an employee.
But yeah at this stage I reckon he'll be an occasional advisor and not much more. Certainly not the de facto DOF many had the impression he would be.
Don't project, mate. I'm not angry. I gave up on the season after the 0-5 against Liverpool, and have been waiting for it to end since then. What I'm looking for is proper decision-making, based on evidence, not emotion, or short-termist thinking.
I do, however, think Rashford has hit his ceiling, and that a while ago. His problem is simple: he doesn't use his brain. So unless ETH can do his thinking for him, or provide a system that makes him not have to use his brain, he's done.
And sorry, but making it to elite sports doesn't make you successful enough to be a Man Utd player. I should think that obvious.
What has that got to do with anything?
You're saying the players don't necessarily have inherent bad attitudes but they've developed bad attitudes. Whose job is it to ensure as much as possible that this doesn't happen?
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