Been around a lot longer then that, and even towards the end of Moyes' time at United, I never expected the team lose games, I always felt the squads quality would see us through on the day, Under RR I expect defeat regardless of who we are playing.
Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?
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Been around a lot longer then that, and even towards the end of Moyes' time at United, I never expected the team lose games, I always felt the squads quality would see us through on the day, Under RR I expect defeat regardless of who we are playing.
, next level stuff /bow.There definitely were and infighting is natural when a team that's supposed to win keeps losing.
The dressing room won't be toxic if we have a proper coach with a proper tactical plan.
Winning takes care of everything.
Not to the extent of ours.
So you're saying that the team under Moyes had much more quality, but Rangnick has done a worse job despite having almost identical results with a much worse team?
If there's no difference in managers we might as well just stuck with Rangnick and saved ourselves millions instead of getting Ten Hag.
All of the other interim candidates would have likely got us top 4.
Rangnick's not really a coach anymore and out of touch with the modern game.
Favre, Valverde and Garcia would have all turned us around but in hindsight they might have done too well and got the permanent job.
Right, he's not done great as the manager, but given where we were when he took over, and what he has self inflicted on himself, or had thrown at him since, it's a minor issue, just look at the bigger picture.
No, it is not weird. Some people think the Glazers have provided sufficient funds for the club to be successful. I am not sure why you are contesting this or think it is in any way controversial. Some pundits have voiced this opinion too, such as Souness.
"Pathetically low standards" can also be construed as you having unrealistic expectations of the playing squad post Ole's departure. Interesting that I specifically mentioned Everton and how that was not Rangnick's fault, but you did not even bother to discuss the point that it has nothing to do with the incumbent manager and really just a total lack of professionalism. You also ignored all the other points I raised, instead just reiterating the same view, which I can only presume is because you cannot come up with a valid answer to any of them.
Out of interest, do you really think, under the exact same set of circumstances, we would have achieved significantly better results with another interim manger?
If the team is so bad how the hell did Ole get Champions League football, and a decent couple of cup runs out of them?
Let's not rewrite history, the same people who claimed a "competent" manager could take the team further than Ole, now they contend the whole team are a bunch of worthless swindlers
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People underestimated how much of a problem the attitudes of these players are.
Of course they have (well, they've allowed the club to spend sufficient funds that the club itself makes). It's the one and only thing that they have done that people shouldn't be complaining about, unless they are talking purely about the 'no value in the market' period under Fergie. Since that period we have one of the highest, perhaps even the highest, net spend in Europe.
It is the job of the manager to improve the attitudes of these players.
There’s no bitterness. He is ineffective and shouldn’t be here is the point.
It’s the managers fault that the players are not properly motivated to play for Manchester United? You sure about that?
We finished 3rd with 66 points and 2nd with 74 points under Ole, something that will never happen. The standards of the league in both seasons were shit.
We would have been better off keeping ole, though we would have been even better off as carrick as interim as he had the respect of the dressing and did quite well considering the games he took charge of.
Not only have the results and performances been awful under ragnick, there has been absolute toxicity around the club.
With ole the results were terrible but a majority of the team seem to still be behind him and don't believe the atmosphere would have been as rotten as it has been under ragnick and ole has proven in the past that he can get the team going on a good winning streak though that isn't to say ole was a poor manager still and should not have been in charge at the club
Not only have the results and performances been awful under ragnick, there has been absolute toxicity around the club.
With ole the results were terrible but a majority of the team seem to still be behind him and don't believe the atmosphere would have been as rotten as it has been under ragnick and ole has proven in the past that he can get the team going on a good winning streak though that isn't to say ole was a poor manager still and should not have been in charge at the club
It is the job of the manager to improve the attitudes of these players.
Nope
Fully disagree. It’s on the players to be professionals whether they like each other personally or not.
- Ole signed some of those players and worked with them for 3 years compared to Rangnick who signed none and has had < 6 months.
- Ole had a full coaching set up that he selected from almost day one. Rangnick has had a makeshift coaching setup.
- Ole had several transfer windows to sign players in several windows. Rangnick has had no opportunities to buy anyone new. He lost players in the January window.
- Ole had a full range of attacking players to work with. Rangnick has had Cavani missing for most of his reign, Martial wanting out and Greenwood's legal issues.
- Ole had McT and Fred, supplemented by Matic. Rangnick had the same players but Matic was now a year older - some would say he was already finished years ago - and McT and Fred have both had injuries too.
- Rangnick has had to deal with a number of players leaving, Ole, in the previous seasons, has not.
I agree with you here that Ole's achievements are now being rewritten, even by me indirectly. He is better than what some people give him credit for. But equally I think it is hard not to look at those players and question their mentality. The signs were there throughout Ole's reign - failing to reach finals, then failing to win the final and now sometimes showing a lack of effort.
People are also allowed to change their opinion. So what if people thought a competent manager at the time would do better? The point is, the players have performed poorly this season under both Ole and Ralf, their effort has been questioned by fans and pundits and therefore they have received the bulk of the criticism.
It is the job of the manager to improve the attitudes of these players.
Improve. This is quite simple. And it is true for any job, any company. Improve. Not make perfect. Improve. If the manager cannot improve the attitudes of those under him, he is not a good manager.
Agree to disagree
Not really sure I fully understand your point? I was merely saying to the other user that there have been non-United fans and pundits who think the Glazers are fine. I clarified that by saying they think the Glazers are fine simply because they spend sufficient money.
I did not complain about the amount money spent.
And if its not possible to improve their attitudes due to them being trouble markers, it's the managers job to remove and replace them, something which Rangnick is unable to do.
Rangnick is doing better with this particular team than Ole was this season.
Something happened this season. Players who did well last season have absolutely fallen apart this season, and the entire team dynamic is obviously completely broken. That happened under Ole, not Ralf. Ralf has come in to the broken dressing room and has also had to contend with a lot of missing players, all while not having a proper coaching set-up around him and not being able to sign any players.
Don't get me wrong, Rangnick isn't a particularly good manager. His main strength is in a bigger-picture role. But categorically stating that he's the worst we've had in modern times when his results with this team with all those issues have been almost identical to what Moyes did with the team that he inherited...
Whilst true, you cannot polish a turd. Martial is a good example there. Some would also say Pogba, Maguire, Shaw, Rashford etc.
Fair enough. The way you wrote it made it sound like you were disagreeing with that particular statement about their spending. At least that's how I took it anyway.
At least he offers a bit going forwards, worse defensively for sure. Both have got to go, happily los both and see them replaced with youngsters, dotn see how WIlliams and Laird offer less as squad members.
Though his record has been dreadful, my only real major criticism of Rangnick is regularly choosing Telles and Dalot over SHaw/Biasska despite how poor they have oth been this season....the former two are far worse and as much as I hope Rangnicks thougths on the squad are listened to...sure hope he isnt mentioning them as good squad options, DAlot has always been garbage, Telles served a purpose in provign competition and getting Shaw to buck his ideas up last year, dotn think it was co0incidence but that has gone now, he needs GENUINE competition, Bissaka as much as I actually still liek him needs to go and a new number one full back needs to com e in
I think you underestimate the scale of the rebuilding job required. But I admire your optimism.
The league is not "shit" it competitive, during those "shit" season United made a Europa League semi final and final. and Chelsea and City both made to the UCL final, if the Premier League was "shit" what was rest of Europe?
Edited: tried to quote a poster but phone is infuriating.
Sorry for out of context post.
Edited: tried to quote a poster but phone is infuriating.
Sorry for out of context post.
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And it’s also up to the players to play with some pride and listen to the manager, which they clearly don’t do.
Read the first sentence and yet another one who just doesn’t get it. If he was only here to secure top 4 as an interim then why has he been offered a consultancy role. His role is much greater than just getting us top 4, it’s giving a fair assessment of the squad for the next manager and the board. He’s honest, no bullshit and it’s what is sorely needed long term over just securing top 4, which only serves the owners.
1. Last August, most of us believed that we have a squad that in quality it is the second best in Premiership, after City. We only needed to add a defensive midfielder.
2. Now people are saying that we need 24 new players.
Obviously, both of those statements are false.
The fact is that RR failed to improve this team. That is, he failed at his job. We can hypothesize that he can do a good job in upper management or consultancy or whatever, but the simple fact is that as a manager for this team he has been a failure. He did not improve any aspect of those players. It does not matter if our players are worth 10 or worth 5 or worth 1. RR did not improve them at all.
2. Now people are saying that we need 24 new players.
Obviously, both of those statements are false.
The fact is that RR failed to improve this team. That is, he failed at his job. We can hypothesize that he can do a good job in upper management or consultancy or whatever, but the simple fact is that as a manager for this team he has been a failure. He did not improve any aspect of those players. It does not matter if our players are worth 10 or worth 5 or worth 1. RR did not improve them at all.
Ralf Rangnick has been a waste of money, at the time I had no idea why we were going for him and at the time I also had no idea why fans on here were ranting about him like we had pulled off a coup and got a world cup winning manager in.
Some of Ralf's team selections have concerned me a lot, for me his methods are not good enough for a big club, as I have pointed out before his managerial record at the top level is not good, it's average, most of his wins came from winning promotion from the 2nd tier to the 1st tier at clubs who either had good squads or had good finances to bring in good players.
For me, Ralf Rangnick should not be here next season, we already knew Ten Hag was a decent manager so we didn't need Ralf to help bring a manager from Ajax to Manchester United.
Darren Fletcher can go too, lets stop filling roles with ex players and instead hire experienced coaches.
Some of Ralf's team selections have concerned me a lot, for me his methods are not good enough for a big club, as I have pointed out before his managerial record at the top level is not good, it's average, most of his wins came from winning promotion from the 2nd tier to the 1st tier at clubs who either had good squads or had good finances to bring in good players.
For me, Ralf Rangnick should not be here next season, we already knew Ten Hag was a decent manager so we didn't need Ralf to help bring a manager from Ajax to Manchester United.
Darren Fletcher can go too, lets stop filling roles with ex players and instead hire experienced coaches.
He hasn't really been choosing Telles over Shaw. Shaw's been injured, had covid or was suspended for almost the entire time Ralf has been here, but the only time that he was fit he was first choice.
Dalot comfortably outperformed AWB in the early part of Ralf's reign. He certainly wasn't great, but he was better than AWB was playing. It's been much closer the last couple of months, but it's not like AWB has grabbed the opportunities when Rangnick has given him the chance.
Yeah, I can't really blame the confusion around what his actual role was or should have been, but I think that's where he will truly be helpful by having a 1st-person account of the issues with the club, the hope is that he and ETH can work together, even if it's for a bit of consultancy from Ralf, and then I assume he will be gone because once the information is relayed, it's ETH's show to run.
Not really, most of these players finished 2nd last year with shit coaching.
Proper coaching and tactics will see most of the current squad reinvented.
Ten Hag will show just how poor Ole and Rangnick really are.
They finished 2nd in a season where Liverpool had an incredible injury toll and that Chelsea spent half the season under an even worse manager. Arteta was still struggling to get Arsenal going (which he now seems to be doing), Spurs had Jose self-destructing yet again, etc.
ETH is a better manager than Ole and Rangnick, but I have no doubt he will want a significant rebuild and with Ralf also recommending the same I expect to see one.
Yep, I think it's just pride holding some people back. I was actually one of those who wanted him here as interim back then, over Conte even, but now I hold up my hands and admit I overestimated him. He's a smoother talking LVG with nowhere near the credentials.
This kind of attitude belongs in the 90s. And even then, man management was important.
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