Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?

[VP89]

We were 2-0 up against Villa, what was the result in that one?

Blame the refs all you want if that's what helps you

Ok so you want to make up an imaginary scenario that we throw away a two goal lead and deem it more likely than us going on to win, given how we were dominating the side. You can agree to disagree all you want, I dont care. But you can't agree that our second goal should have stood but we werent robbed.

 

[TMDaines]

I’m sure us and Rangnick both need the catharsis of a convincing home win at the weekend to keep faith.

 

[OrcaFat]

He is in his 3rd month.

I was saying it two months ago.

 

[2 man midfield]

If you can’t see the progress we’ve made since he took over then I think you’re either not looking hard enough or just wilfully ignorant.

 

[VP89]

Should, we were not. That's the problem. He is now in his 3rd month and it's the same old shite and the same excuses.

He had a 17 day covid interruption and two week winter break.

And its not the same excuses. We never controlled games under Ole. You say you judge performances but you're just lazily looking at results.
Whilst you're doing that, lazily look at Klopps results when he joined midway in a season too.

Spoiler result - the answer will surprise you

 

[SirScholes]

Theres no positives in the points we're dropping against the calibre of opposition we have player. Yes, should have been 3 or 4 at half time but

He's done nothing to improve them mentality of the players that I can see so far. The second half performance was a shocker, no need to collapse like that after 1-1. We had to keep going. Top 4 is gone for me.

The mentality of the players has been shocking for 3 managers now
Not think maybe, just maybe, it’s the players?
they were down and out because they got their mate Ole sacked
We started to get some good patterns of play back and greenwood ends up in the papers for all the wrong reasons. We’ve a number of players who are trying to leave

 

[MUFC OK]

Because Ronaldo was absolutely shite the last time he started. It’s not Ralf’s fault our front line is a mess of geriatrics and (alleged) sex offenders but it’s an absolute nightmare scenario for him.

He's out of form, but what did Cavani offer? One header from 2 yards that he somehow missed?

I've not seen anything from Ralfs team yet except being tighter at the back and squandering chances. He's got a lot to prove.

 

[charlenefan]

Ok so you want to make up an imaginary scenario that we throw away a two goal lead and deem it more likely than us going on to win, given how we were dominating the side. You can agree to disagree all you want, I dont care. But you can't agree that our second goal should have stood but we werent robbed.

I can see why you're so supportive of RR

 

[I’m loving my life]

To be honest, I struggle to see why after so little time, there is such animosity towards Ralf. We are definitely not making the terrible defensive clangers which characterised the late Ole era. I was one to give Ole time but can see what a mess we had become, and there is a clear mentality issue amongst the squad.

My hope is that the mental side of things will improve in time but there is certainly something happening tactically which the players are still not quite executing. I’m willing to run with the adage that it will get worse before it gets better. I hope he gets time but given the short-termism shown by swathes of the fan base and media, I’m not sure he will get it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He's out of form, but what did Cavani offer? One header from 2 yards that he somehow missed?

I've not seen anything from Ralfs team yet except being tighter at the back and squandering chances. He's got a lot to prove.

Cavani was shite too. Which is my point. Ralf’s team is creating chances but not converting them. Something which - to me - seems to be obviously related to my point about geriatrics and sex offenders. He’s inherited a horribly flawed squad and has a tough job ahead of him.

 

[sullydnl]

Ralf has now led us through nine league games after taking charge. We've lost one game so far. At this point Klopp had already lost to Palace, Newcastle and Watford and drawn to Southampton and WBA when he was appointed at Liverpool. Klopp's first 16 games he had 6-5-6. We're 5-3-1 so far. Why are people expecting Ralf to come in and wave some magic wand and have us bulldozing sides left, right and center?

We've become mostly defensively stable, with an impostor in our ranks, that's impressive and can be improved further by finding Varane a better pairing. In addition, we're creating chances, we just stink at burying them. We could admittedly struggle with this for the remainder of the season, but that's not down to Ralf. The foundations are definitely being improved, there's absolutely no reason to throw tantrums yet.

Yep, that Klopp comparison occurred to me as well. These are the teething problems you should probably expect when trying to rebuild the way a side with obvious personnel weaknesses plays. Even Klopp (a better manager than Rangnick) had those issues.

Of course the difference is that Klopp was at the beginning of a long-term stint. Whereas we have an interim manager (typically hired to have immediate short-term impact) beginning a process he won't be in charge of for much longer. I just hope this work benefits the permanent manager rather than us having to start from scratch again in the summer.

 

[MUFC OK]

The mentality of the players has been shocking for 3 managers now
Not think maybe, just maybe, it’s the players?
they were down and out because they got their mate Ole sacked
We started to get some good patterns of play back and greenwood ends up in the papers for all the wrong reasons. We’ve a number of players who are trying to leave

The players take a huge portion of the blame, yet Ralf talks a great game and we're barely seeing any of what his appointment promised. Shaws 2 or three overlapping runs were more like it but its clear that we are miles off it.

So either these players are uncoachable or Ralf isn't getting those ideas across in training. Really baffles me how some are taking positives from that tonight, although the officials did their absolute best and without their intervention it would have been wrapped up in the first half.

 

[Woodenlung]

Since the Brentford fixture I've seen a style of football actually developing at United. In that game we saw two goals from our pressing forcing turnovers and rapid fire counterattacks.

Against Middlesbrough and Burnley we saw us control the game in the way Rangnick has desired since he first took over. And although we didn't get results in either of these games we created many chances and should have scored 4 or 5.

Rangnick isn't a top level coach ala Guardiola or Klopp. He isn't even in the next level of coaches down like Ten Hag, Poch, Enrique etc. But he does have a clear plan in mind and it's beginning to imprint on the side. He won't be here next season, but the work he's done is enough for me to believe that our group of players can be coached to play a coherent style of football.

 

[Teja]

If you can’t see the progress we’ve made since he took over then I think you’re either not looking hard enough or just wilfully ignorant.

This. I think people just want to come here after a poor result and whine, so there's no point trying to argue reasonably.

The results at all costs mentality was what got us into this mess in the first place (first with hiring Jose and next with giving Ole the job after that lucky win against PSG). Let's focus more on how we played and less on the result.

We've gotten some ridiculous results against Villa and Wolves, so we're overdue a few games where the xG goes against us. Chin up and move on.

 

[VP89]

I can see why you're so supportive of RR

This has nothing to do with RR.
A goal was scored which should be allowed. The team was arguably robbed of the goal in a game they were completely dominating.

Your response is that plausibly we could have thrown away the two goal lead. Plausible albeit unlikely. However most importantly that doesn't mean we weren't robbed of the goal.

None of this sub debate has anything to do with the team or the manager.

 

[Bilbo]

Just saw a stat that we outshot our opponents 52-14 over the last two games. And unlike some games under Ole where we were just taking pot-shots at goal, those shots actually included some clear-cut high quality chances.

I realise everyone is frustrated with results and the general state we're in but in reality to come away without a win from either game is to a large degree just bad luck. That should temper our criticism somewhat.

I think I agree with you, just, but it's hard to be truly objective in a season where so much is going wrong.

Are these performances looking better because we've had such a horrendous run and we couldnt get much worse, or are we actually playing quality football? I'm not convinced either way tbh.

 

[Leftback99]

Maybe. Maybe not. Even just turning two draws into one win and one loss would be a positive, provided we don’t lose to Spurs and Arsenal. Performances have been getting better in recent matches, so we are moving in the right direction.

Whilst the results are really disappointing and killing our season, I feel better about how we will play in our upcoming matches now after Brentford, West Ham, Boro and Burnley, than I did after Norwich and Newcastle.

I'm not seeing it myself. The Brentford result flattered us, we were pulled apart in the first half. West Ham we created little and Burnley will be joining Boro in the Championship in a few months. Better teams will find it easy against us.

 

[Anustart89]

Should, we were not. That's the problem. He is now in his 3rd month and it's the same old shite and the same excuses.

Think you’re being harsh here. I mean, what’s he supposed to do once he’s managed to get the team to create chances? Should he physically move the goal to the left so that Bruno doesn’t hit the post with an open goal? Should he move Pope’s knee out of the way so that Cavani’s header from three yards goes in, and should he pull Maguire away from the offside position so he doesn’t feck up the goals we actually do score? I suppose for the last one we’d be better off if Maguire was permanently hooked from the team, but someone made slabhead club captain so that’ll be a hard sell for him.

 

[SirScholes]

The players take a huge portion of the blame, yet Ralf talks a great game and we're barely seeing any of what his appointment promised. Shaws 2 or three overlapping runs were more like it but its clear that we are miles off it.

So either these players are uncoachable or Ralf isn't getting those ideas across in training. Really baffles me how some are taking positives from that tonight, although the officials did their absolute best and without their intervention it would have been wrapped up in the first half.

Dalot and shaw both get forward but shaw for me runs into blind ally’s at times
We’ve improved lots of our play. Our defensive shape as a team is much better
We are sadly lacking a good mobile striker
Midfield takes too long to get the wingers in the ball
But that’s Pogba Fred and Mctom for you, two are average and Pogba always dwells on the ball

not sure 3 months of interrupted practice has helped either

as you said we should of been up. Ralf had done his bit

 

[VP89]

He's out of form, but what did Cavani offer? One header from 2 yards that he somehow missed?

I've not seen anything from Ralfs team yet except being tighter at the back and squandering chances. He's got a lot to prove.

You haven't seen anything from the team? Our chance creation in the past couple games is far higher than Oles time and our control of the game too.

And cavani offered little but again thats not on Ralph. His only strikers are 37 and 34. The only other option asked to leave in his first week.

 

[MUFC OK]

You haven't seen anything from the team? Our chance creation in the past couple games is far higher than Oles time and our control of the game too.

And cavani offered little but again thats not on Ralph. His only strikers are 37 and 34. The only other option asked to leave in his first week.

I dont take much from squandered chances, just adds to the frustration, especially after friday night. There was no reaction second half from the players or the manager.

 

[Bilbo]

If you can’t see the progress we’ve made since he took over then I think you’re either not looking hard enough or just wilfully ignorant.

We have to bear in mind that we haven't played a single team we shouldn't have beaten since Ralf took over. The optimistic part of me thinks that we might be building up to some form that could see us survive the crucial run of fixtures coming up, but the realistic part thinks there's still a decent chance that we get embarrassed again

 

[VP89]

I dont take much from squandered chances, just adds to the frustration, especially after friday night. There was no reaction second half from the players or the manager.

Thats weird. So you just look at the squandered chances and not the fact that we control better, concede less opportunities and create more?

I mean that's okay if you want to do that but dont say Ralph isnt improving enough things.

 

[MUFC OK]

Dalot and shaw both get forward but shaw for me runs into blind ally’s at times
We’ve improved lots of our play. Our defensive shape as a team is much better
We are sadly lacking a good mobile striker
Midfield takes too long to get the wingers in the ball
But that’s Pogba Fred and Mctom for you, two are average and Pogba always dwells on the ball

not sure 3 months of interrupted practice has helped either

as you said we should of been up. Ralf had done his bit

I'm probably not in the mindset to properly judge it, but the result was all that mattered today. The fashion in which we failed to get it was just unforgivable. The majority are trying but the mentality is clearly on the floor.

 

[Borussin]

Yep, that Klopp comparison occurred to me as well. These are the teething problems you should probably expect when trying to rebuild the way a side with obvious personnel weaknesses plays. Even Klopp (a better manager than Rangnick) had those issues.

Of course the difference is that Klopp was at the beginning of a long-term stint. Whereas we have an interim manager (typically hired to have immediate short-term impact) beginning a process he won't be in charge of for much longer. I just hope this work benefits the permanent manager rather than us having to start from scratch again in the summer.

And the problem Rangnick has too similar to how Klopp had, is using a team he’s inherited to play a style of football many of them are not used to and are not fit enough to play. Klopp had full-backs at Liverpool not at all suitable to his style, he had very poor central defenders, a goalie who couldn’t use his feet, slow, immobile midfielders like Leiva and Alen, and forwards completely unsuitable to pressing like Benteke and an already struggling injury-wise Sturdige.

Rangnick has better attackers at his disposal, but he too like Klopp doesn’t have suitable midfielder apart from Fernandes. But I am intrigued why he did not try Van der Beek, I would have though he be more suitable to his style.

 

[VP89]

We have to bear in mind that we haven't played a single team we shouldn't have beaten since Ralf took over. The optimistic part of me thinks that we might be building up to some form that could see us survive the crucial run of fixtures coming up, but the realistic part thinks there's still a decent chance that we get embarrassed again

Honestly the opposition doesn't matter. The team need to be playing in a new way regardless and the volatility in performance and results was inevitable regardless of whom we played.

 

[Kopral Jono]

Ralf has now led us through nine league games after taking charge. We've lost one game so far. At this point Klopp had already lost to Palace, Newcastle and Watford and drawn to Southampton and WBA when he was appointed at Liverpool. Klopp's first 16 games he had 6-5-6. We're 5-3-1 so far. Why are people expecting Ralf to come in and wave some magic wand and have us bulldozing sides left, right and center?

We've become mostly defensively stable, with an impostor in our ranks, that's impressive and can be improved further by finding Varane a better pairing. In addition, we're creating chances, we just stink at burying them. We could admittedly struggle with this for the remainder of the season, but that's not down to Ralf. The foundations are definitely being improved, there's absolutely no reason to throw tantrums yet.

Great post.

 

[Mainoldo]

Not much frustration for him. He’s got us playing good football… today showed who the rubbish players were. But a lot of us know already.

 

[MUFC OK]

Thats weird. So you just look at the squandered chances and not the fact that we control better, concede less opportunities and create more?

I mean that's okay if you want to do that but dont say Ralph isnt improving enough things.

We were playing Burnley ffs. They've failed to win their last 5 home league games and are rock botom of the league. The previous game we controlled was against middlesborough and we still got a terrible result. We beat the same Burnley team a few weeks ago. I cannot see positives in this until we start to convert chances.

Hardly expecting us to turn into prime Barcelona but even with the chance creation it's not been acceptable.

 

[Hugh Jass]

I said it two days ago. Take our chances and we win comfortably tonight, which we didnt.

Two games we should have won easily.

 

[MUFC OK]

Great post.

By comparing to Klopp? Manny compared ole to Klopp to Ole for years tbf, saying it would take 3 seasons etc.

 

[Livewire1974]

We have to bear in mind that we haven't played a single team we shouldn't have beaten since Ralf took over. The optimistic part of me thinks that we might be building up to some form that could see us survive the crucial run of fixtures coming up, but the realistic part thinks there's still a decent chance that we get embarrassed again

We would be trashed by a half decent team now.

 

[Livewire1974]

I said it two days ago. Take our chances and we win comfortably tonight, which we didnt.

Two games we should have won easily.

Always a hard luck story. Does not happen witg City or the Dippers, they put their chances away.

 

[Kopral Jono]

By comparing to Klopp? Manny compared ole to Klopp to Ole for years tbf, saying it would take 3 seasons etc.

I'm not saying Rangnick is as good a manager as Klopp, but parallels could certainly be drawn between the latter's first few months in charge of Liverpool and the former with us now. What I agree strongly with is the second paragraph of that post.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Always a hard luck story. Does not happen witg City or the Dippers, they put their chances away.

It took pep a year to get it right with city and it took Klopp three years at pool.

We have two pensioners for strikers. Then we have a Mf is more than likely leaving on a free. Then other players sulking up the place. The club is a mess and has been badly run for some time now.

Change the culture and miss out on top four and i will take it. We have to sarcrifice short term gain for long term gain. Get in ten hag in the summer with a new striker, Rb and Mfs, whilst all those sulking get let go. That is what needs to happen.

 

[MUFC OK]

I'm not saying Rangnick is as good a manager as Klopp, but parallels could certainly be drawn between the latter's first few months in charge of Liverpool and the former with us now. What I agree strongly with is the second paragraph of that post.

Failure to get results is not a valid point of comparison. I've seen next to nothing of the gegenpressing style, might be that the players arent fit enough, or willing to work hard enough.

Maguire is beyond awful, he really is. He was costing us under Ole and will continue to do so. I assume Ralf is free to pick Varane and Lindelof and so any failure to do that moving forward is on him.

 

[MUFC OK]

Change the culture and miss out on top four and i will take it.

We all have to come around to this reality, but personally I'm not watching a single game of that competition. I cant do it.

 

[InspiRED]

I think I agree with you, just, but it's hard to be truly objective in a season where so much is going wrong.

Are these performances looking better because we've had such a horrendous run and we couldnt get much worse, or are we actually playing quality football? I'm not convinced either way tbh.

There's concrete examples of it getting better. I think i can count on one hand the amount of times we ever got behind a team in a low or mid block under Ole. We would pass it along the back four, eventually get it into midfield and then instantly lose it to a press on McFred with unerring, clockwork like predictability. We managed to get behind that same kind of block. getting the ball into the penalty box a handful of times in tonight's game alone. In addition there is the danger we are posing on turnovers of possession in the final third. There is a speed and instinctiveness about how aggressive we are in those moments to quickly create goal scoring chances. When the other team has their focus on possession, on moving themselves forward, switching so quickly to defending creates panic, uncertainty and ultimately weakness leading high quality chances, like some of the 52 such we created in the last two games.

 

[UncleBob]

Good first half, awful second half when Burnley were much more aggressive. I still think we'll be played off the park when we start playing the stronger teams, but we'll see

 

[Livewire1974]

ten hag in the summer with a new striker, Rb and Mfs, whilst all those sulking get let go. That is what needs to happen.

Do whatever it takes to get Ten Hag in now.