Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?

[Sultan]

Pogba (if he hangs around after the season) and Bruno could be tasty 10's playing together. Both are brilliant at creating and scoring. The pressure from both of defending or making a mistake in our half is voided by this new formation.

 

[#07]

 

[sglowrider]

My dream scenario would be: Rangnick as interim until summer. Then moves to position in the club. We appoint Ten Hag. Ten Hag, Rangnick and Murtrough are given carte blanche to fire, hire and restructure the club and squad as they see fit. Get rid of McKenna and Phelan.

I suspect Rangnick will do another year/full season so that he can implement his ideas and foundations (both organisational structural, football philosophy on & off the pitch) before handing over the reins to someone else.

He isn't going to kill himself the next six months, doing 12-15hour days just to allow that to be changed over the summer/going forward. He has to balance between short term goals ie wins -- which will buy him credit in the bank to implement the mid to long term structural goals when he moves upstairs.

 

[Sultan]

The hatred for McTominay here is actually ludicrous. He's nowhere near as bad as people seemingly want him to be.

We should be looking for better in the starting XI but he'll be an excellent squad player here for years and I imagine every manager will love him.

I think we could eventually judge players in a different light once the manager gets enough training sessions and we have an actual playing structure.

 

[sglowrider]

Frankly, the very fact that he's seen as a good appointment by the media and is getting good writeups already is half the battle for a post-Fergie United manager.

Every manager we've had since Fergie has had question marks surrounding them and a narrative against them from Day 1 (Moyes was lack of trophies, lack of charisma and style of football, LVG was his personality and how long since he'd been at the top of the game, Mourinho was style of football, personality and track record of short, tempestuous reigns, Ole was lack of experience and his prior record). The media narrative about Rangnick has been that it's a great appointment, and in a game where psychology matters that's a big difference before a ball is even kicked. Obviously that'll change if the results don't go the right way, but he'll likely get more leeway than previous managers have if we don't get off to a flier.

Every one of our post-Fergie managers has really positive write-ups at the start.

 

[jeff_goldblum]

Every one of our post-Fergie managers has really positive write-ups at the start.

Have they? To this extent? Maybe I'm misremembering fan chat as media coverage but I can't remember this amount of hype being associated with any of our other appointments, with the possible exception of Mourinho but that was just because he's a big name and journos knew they'd get clicks out of him. Basically every journalist in the game is falling over themselves to say how good this appointment is - I don't remember that being the case with any of the others. Certainly I remember reading articles talking about the past achievements of Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho but casting doubt on whether they were the right fit for this job.

By the way, I'm not saying that's why they failed, they all failed on their own merits, but it's a psychological game and perception matters (whether that's in selling the club to potential signings or making opponents think twice about coming to Old Trafford and trying to attack). It definitely benefits us that our new manager is perceived as being better than our old one, and accepting that doesn't detract from the fact that there are good reasons people think that, or, for that matter, from the fact that he is a better manager.

 

[Xaviesta]

Every one of our post-Fergie managers has really positive write-ups at the start.

Even Moyes?

 

[L1nk]

The hatred for McTominay here is actually ludicrous. He's nowhere near as bad as people seemingly want him to be.

We should be looking for better in the starting XI but he'll be an excellent squad player here for years and I imagine every manager will love him.

Excellent squad player? Yeah if we were a mid table team. Should be upgraded on for the first 11 and then would gladly put another youth product in the squad over him

 

[sglowrider]

By the way, I'm not saying that's why they failed, they all failed on their own merits, but it's a psychological game and perception matters (whether that's in selling the club to potential signings or making opponents think twice about coming to Old Trafford and trying to attack). It definitely benefits us that our new manager is perceived as being better than our old one, and accepting that doesn't detract from the fact that there are good reasons people think that, or, for that matter, from the fact that he is a better manager.

Most new managers will be perceived to be better than the last (sacked) manager. It's the smugness of 20/20 hindsight commentaries whether on forums or media.

I think the buildup/expectations to Rangnick are unrealistic especially within his remit of 6 months. But I am also assuming that there is some written or understanding between Rangnick and the BOM that if they see the progression of his methods/systems and philosophy, he will get another year and heavy say in the next manager -- and he continues to (re-build/) modernise other parts of the United organisation similar to what he did at RB insync with the 1st team's progression.

 

[Cassidy]

Most new managers will be perceived to be better than the last (sacked) manager. It's the smugness of 20/20 hindsight commentaries whether on forums or media.

I think the buildup/expectations to Rangnick are unrealistic especially within his remit of 6 months. But I am also assuming that there is some written or understanding between Rangnick and the BOM that if they see the progression of his methods/systems and philosophy, he will get another year and heavy say in the next manager -- and he continues to (re-build/) modernise other parts of the United organisation similar to what he did at RB insync with the 1st team's progression.

Couldn't agree more

 

[tomaldinho1]

It really is telling on G Nev's analysis that we significantly bettered Ole's averages vs Palace (shots against, xG against, Tackles won, duels won, offensive passes in final third, won possession etc.) apart from number of sprints & distance. That's with minimal coaching, just a new formation and some basic ideas. We were so bloody clueless - Ole genuinely thought if you worked harder than the opposition you didn't need a tactical plan.

 

[KingCavani]

Excellent squad player? Yeah if we were a mid table team. Should be upgraded on for the first 11 and then would gladly put another youth product in the squad over him

Ridiculous.

He's gonna be here for a while whether you like it or not.

I just know you'd have been the type shitting on the likes of Park, O'Shea, Fletcher or many of the other unheralded but important pieces we'd have over the years.

 

[JPRouve]

It really is telling on G Nev's analysis that we significantly bettered Ole's averages vs Palace (shots against, xG against, Tackles won, duels won, offensive passes in final third, won possession etc.) apart from number of sprints & distance. That's with minimal coaching, just a new formation and some basic ideas. We were so bloody clueless - Ole genuinely thought if you worked harder than the opposition you didn't need a tactical plan.

Is it what he thought or was he simply not good enough to implement his plans?

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

The hatred for McTominay here is actually ludicrous. He's nowhere near as bad as people seemingly want him to be.

We should be looking for better in the starting XI but he'll be an excellent squad player here for years and I imagine every manager will love him.

The main problem though is that McTominay isn't a squad player. He's a starter and one of the main players of the team in a key position. He's played 13 out of 15 league games this season. Last season he played 49 games in all competitions. The most Darren Fletcher ever played in a season was 42 and he was a better player than McTominay. Since September 2020, he's played 66 games for United.

That's been my problem with McTominay over the past few years. He is well capable of playing 30 games in all competitions to a decent level as cover and in certain competitons. But 49 games a season is too many for a limited player. What other top team would play McTominay in almost every game?

Park played 40 games in 2008-09, but otherwise he played 26, 28 and 28 games for United from 2009-2012. McTominay played 49 last year. 28 games is a good squad player. 49 games, mostly starting, is more than a squad player.

 

[BluesJr]

Is it what he thought or was he simply not good enough to implement his plans?

Go and do your magic. That was the extent of it.

 

[duffer]

It really is telling on G Nev's analysis that we significantly bettered Ole's averages vs Palace (shots against, xG against, Tackles won, duels won, offensive passes in final third, won possession etc.) apart from number of sprints & distance. That's with minimal coaching, just a new formation and some basic ideas. We were so bloody clueless - Ole genuinely thought if you worked harder than the opposition you didn't need a tactical plan.

I didn't see your Palace game but even the best manager ever takes more than a few days to get their ideas over.

If there was a big improvement in just 3 days, it's because the players weren't giving it 100% under the old manager. Seen it a million times at Chelsea.

 

[JPRouve]

The main problem though is that McTominay isn't a squad player. He's a starter and one of the main players of the team in a key position. He's played 13 out of 15 league games this season. Last season he played 49 games in all competitions. The most Darren Fletcher ever played in a season was 42 and he was a better player than McTominay. Since September 2020, he's played 66 games for United.

That's been my problem with McTominay over the past few years. He is well capable of playing 30 games in all competitions to a decent level as cover and in certain competitons. But 49 games a season is too many for a limited player. What other top team would play McTominay in almost every game?

But that shouldn't be held against McTominay. He is overused and should be an "end of bench" player, someone that has value for a club like United because you can count on him in case of busy schedule or injury crisis.

 

[KingCavani]

The main problem though is that McTominay isn't a squad player. He's a starter and one of the main players of the team in a key position. He's played 13 out of 15 league games this season. Last season he played 49 games in all competitions. The most Darren Fletcher ever played in a season was 42 and he was a better player than McTominay. Since September 2020, he's played 66 games for United.

That's been my problem with McTominay over the past few years. He is well capable of playing 30 games in all competitions to a decent level as cover and in certain competitons. But 49 games a season is too many for a limited player. What other top team would play McTominay in almost every game?

I know, I did say we need an upgrade on him. I see him as an alternative to Fred going forward rather than a partner. I think both have been playing out of position too almost to try and cancel out each other's defensive weaknesses - I don't think we've seen the best of either. McTominay is a very capable player - He hasn't been so highly rated by every coach who's been here out of pity.

Both Fred and McTominay would benefit from a quality #6 that would allow them to press higher up the pitch, which is definitely what will be asked of them in this system.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

But that shouldn't held against McTominay. He is overused and should be an "end of bench" player, someone that has value for a club like United because you can count on him in case of busy schedule or injury crisis.

Oh yeah, it's not McTominay's fault, it's the club's fault for not getting in a better player to replace him.

 

[mav_9me]

That’s interesting about the distance run being less than our average, I hadn’t seen that bit. I wonder what that will look like in a month or two.

That's not surprising to me at all. We compressed the game into their half so much, distance covered was actually less.

 

[romufc]

But that shouldn't be held against McTominay. He is overused and should be an "end of bench" player, someone that has value for a club like United because you can count on him in case of busy schedule or injury crisis.

Exactly this. The reason McTominay started so many games is we just don't have the right replacement or enough competition. Is that down to the manager? maybe.

Also, I love how alot of people talk about certain players being coached by Rangnick but it seems everyone is writing McTominay off.

What if he can be coached the way Jordan Henderson was at Liverpool?

 

[BluesJr]

I didn't see your Palace game but even the best manager ever takes more than a few days to get their ideas over.

If there was a big improvement in just 3 days, it's because the players weren't giving it 100% under the old manager. Seen it a million times at Chelsea.

Yes and no. A coach can have an immediate impact with simple instructions.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Is it what he thought or was he simply not good enough to implement his plans?

Thinking about it, he didn't even lead training so it was only an idea - if you or I suddenly became manager of United, I don't see there'd be much difference on the training ground in that we'd both have all the right things to say as well & then would just fob off coaching to Carrick/McKenna.

I didn't see your Palace game but even the best manager ever takes more than a few days to get their ideas over.

If there was a big improvement in just 3 days, it's because the players weren't giving it 100% under the old manager. Seen it a million times at Chelsea.

Honestly just having a basic shape was enough of a difference. For sure, the 'bounce' should be coming now looking at our fixtures but we looked way less off the cuff already - I don't know if RR will be a success or not but for the first time since LVG I think you'll be able to look at us in 2 months or so and see a constant style.

 

[stefan92]

I didn't see your Palace game but even the best manager ever takes more than a few days to get their ideas over.

If there was a big improvement in just 3 days, it's because the players weren't giving it 100% under the old manager. Seen it a million times at Chelsea.

They were running more under Ole than in Rangnick's first game. That goes against that idea that they weren't giving it all.

Biggest issue United had for a long time was the massive midfield hole, and Rangnick fixed that by moving the wingers Rashford and Sancho centrally, therefore switching from 4231 to 4222. It takes maybe two minutes to explain the basic idea to the players, not a lot of coaching.

 

[Noc-Z]

We will see how it goes, but I am very impressed with the start he's made, and if he continues to impress I'd be happy if he agrees to continue managing us next season. It wouldn't surprise me. There's only so much he can do with the time given and one January transfer window. He doesn't even have his own coaching team yet, he has McKenna, Phelan and Fletcher on the touchline - God knows why Fletcher is - has no credentials to be there in my opinion. I don't even understand what possibly qualifies him for his role as technical director! Hope Ralph sees through all this and there is a cull. It will require a ruthless streak. I hope he does it and we see a full season with him with his own team and some summer signings.

 

[JPRouve]

Thinking about it, he didn't even lead training so it was only an idea - if you or I suddenly became manager of United, I don't see there'd be much difference on the training ground in that we'd both have all the right things to say as well & then would just fob off coaching to Carrick/McKenna.

That's the thing. Without pretending that we are his equals, if you dropped one of us on the training pitch no amounts of philosophy would compensate the fact that we are not elite coaches, that our communication skills are most likely not good enough and that players would be confused and demoralized by our cluelessness.

 

[VP89]

Is it what he thought or was he simply not good enough to implement his plans?

Ole didnt have any plans. This was really obvious from his views on games and how every game was implemented in our attacks. You can even tell from his early coaching videos he has no idea. Its just work hard and show me what you got.

Ole coming to the United squad and giving instructions is literally this clip:

 

[Jackal981]

They were running more under Ole than in Rangnick's first game. That goes against that idea that they weren't giving it all.

Biggest issue United had for a long time was the massive midfield hole, and Rangnick fixed that by moving the wingers Rashford and Sancho centrally, therefore switching from 4231 to 4222. It takes maybe two minutes to explain the basic idea to the players, not a lot of coaching.

Another thing is the distance between our players in Palace match are very tight and compact. Compared that to Ole setup in which the distance between each player is huge. This is also why we always lose second balls when managed by Ole and cant press effectively. Ole basically set us up like it is in 90s.

 

[tomaldinho1]

That's the thing. Without pretending that we are his equals, if you dropped one of us on the training pitch no amounts of philosophy would compensate the fact that we are not elite coaches, that our communication skills are most likely not good enough and that players would be confused and demoralized by our cluelessness.

Which is why Ole being hands off was so weird. Ragnick is probably a breath of fresh air, he's there, he's running the show, no one has any doubts who is 'head' coach and if you ask him a question and you will get a direct answer.

The question we have now is whether or not his vision of the game and tactics will work to the level we hope. But that's a far better position to be in than previously where we were simply hoping there were tactics.

 

[Paranoid Android]

They were running more under Ole than in Rangnick's first game. That goes against that idea that they weren't giving it all.

Biggest issue United had for a long time was the massive midfield hole, and Rangnick fixed that by moving the wingers Rashford and Sancho centrally, therefore switching from 4231 to 4222. It takes maybe two minutes to explain the basic idea to the players, not a lot of coaching.

The fact that they were running more doesn't mean they were putting in more effort though. Running around can also be hiding in a match.

 

[sglowrider]

It really is telling on G Nev's analysis that we significantly bettered Ole's averages vs Palace (shots against, xG against, Tackles won, duels won, offensive passes in final third, won possession etc.) apart from number of sprints & distance. That's with minimal coaching, just a new formation and some basic ideas. We were so bloody clueless - Ole genuinely thought if you worked harder than the opposition you didn't need a tactical plan.

If you go back 3 years ago -- Ole's stats bettered Jose's right after taking over. Remember he said that the players needed to do more running and that they were't fit to do the sort of pressing inter-changing position game he wanted? We have heard all this before.

Bottom line is that when players stop running or follow the manager's/cpaches' instructions the end is nigh.

 

[sglowrider]

Go and do your magic. That was the extent of it.

Wouldnt that make every training session like 20mins every day? Then the rest are just running up & down hills?

 

[BluesJr]

Wouldnt that make every training session like 20mins every day? Then the rest are just running up & down hills?

Did it ever look like we did any serious training?

 

[cyberman]

They were running more under Ole than in Rangnick's first game. That goes against that idea that they weren't giving it all.

Biggest issue United had for a long time was the massive midfield hole, and Rangnick fixed that by moving the wingers Rashford and Sancho centrally, therefore switching from 4231 to 4222. It takes maybe two minutes to explain the basic idea to the players, not a lot of coaching.

Well if the players aren’t sprinting to stop counter attacks that cut through them then they would run less!
Players closer together that provide cover would mean less overall distance is covered

 

[sglowrider]

Which is why Ole being hands off was so weird. Ragnick is probably a breath of fresh air, he's there, he's running the show, no one has any doubts who is 'head' coach and if you ask him a question and you will get a direct answer.

The question we have now is whether or not his vision of the game and tactics will work to the level we hope. But that's a far better position to be in than previously where we were simply hoping there were tactics.

Ole learnt his concept of a manager from Fergie and mirrored his behaviour.

I suspect Rangnick at 63 will be doing the same thing in the near future -- he moved upstairs and hasn't been hands-on for a long time now.

He is only hands-on because of necessity -- he just doesn't have his coaching team in place yet. Plus I think he needs to be on the ground to assess the current players and the coaching team on a daily basis ... for now.
He will be more hands-off once his team is in place and the training plans have been developed.

 

[sglowrider]

Did it ever look like we did any serious training?

We will never know but to think otherwise would be naive.
Our closest insight would have been through MUTV. But they are usually put into a media blackout once the warm-ups have been completed. This is the case at Carrington or even when we used to train in LA during the tours.

 

[Real Name]

The fact that without any plan whatsoever and with go on and have fun attitude from Ole we managed to get 3rd and 2nd is remarkable really. Says a lot about the players we have. They managed that without any instruction other than go on and run about.
Imagine what they will be capable of with a manager like RR who'll have a plan beyond tactics is for nerds stuff.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Ole learnt his concept of a manager from Fergie and mirrored his behaviour.

I suspect Rangnick at 63 will be doing the same thing in the near future -- he moved upstairs and hasn't been hands-on for a long time now.

He is only hands-on because of necessity -- he just doesn't have his coaching team in place yet. Plus I think he needs to be on the ground to assess the current players and the coaching team on a daily basis ... for now.
He will be more hands-off once his team is in place and the training plans have been developed.

I agree but that's why I think short term this makes sense. I'd be more sceptical if he was just permanent manager and that was it but as interim I actually think it works well because he'll have some basic principles to coach into the team, his coaching team will filter in over the next few weeks/months but he's hands on right now (and he's been interim at RBL successfully a couple of times in recent memory) and by the end of the season I expect he will become a 'consultant' whatever that means with a younger, head coach coming in.

 

[roonster09]

They were running more under Ole than in Rangnick's first game. That goes against that idea that they weren't giving it all.

Biggest issue United had for a long time was the massive midfield hole, and Rangnick fixed that by moving the wingers Rashford and Sancho centrally, therefore switching from 4231 to 4222. It takes maybe two minutes to explain the basic idea to the players, not a lot of coaching.

Yeah, these guys are professional footballers and used to taking instructions all their life. It won't take much time to see changes, it takes time to perfect the system.

 

[McGrathsipan]

Its a results based game. Let's see where we are in a few months.
He's started well. He's saying all the right things.
When the turbulence of shiny new stuff fades let's see where we are at. Doing it for 3 or 4 games is not good enough either.

Things are looking better so that's refreshing on its own.