Raiola: "I can say that it's over for Pogba at United"

Paul is not as integral as he once was for us, he will need to be replaced for sure but he's a luxury at this point and not crucial for us to progress as a team, if anything if we can find the right replacement it will be a positive if he leaves,

The issue is, i cannot see Juve finding enough cash to justify us selling to them, PSG for sure can afford it and i think they'd be interested but I don't think Paul fancies the french league, I do hope he moves on in the summer though, the best thing for all parties at this point.
 
TsuWave said:
I've never subscribed to the idea of building teams around players, my post history can attest, and I don't feel out current team is built around Bruno neither. Either way, I don't see football as a static thing, the team/quality players and circumstances around the time Bruno joined were different to ones around the time Pogba joined. For example, Bruno had the benefit of being deployed as AM and have a player of Pogba's quality playing in a CM position. Pogba had...Scheneiderlin?

Pogba has also gotten shouts of best player in the league while here and when playing in a more advanced role [source]. He created a lot of chances for Ibra prior to that too. Pogba hasn't been this calamitous transfer people seem eager to turn it into (going back to my initial reply to this thread). I'm happy for him to move on/be moved on.

Ultimately, as I said previously, I agree with the overall sentiment of your posts. I'm just not with the "X doing well, puts A to shame" due to the variables/reasons I've stated.
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It’s unfortunate that some feel the need to put down other players in order to raise a player to onto a pedestal. They are all United players and while they wear the shirt, they should be backed. Recently experienced what I believe was a Rashford vs Martial agenda.

Of course Pogba isn’t helping his cause with that agent of his but at least on the pitch in his last few games, he looks committed enough. Won’t miss him when he leaves though.
 
NoLogo said:
Well he certainly is too expansive to keep him as a super sub. Selling at this stage is the only thing that makes sense.
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Of course. Another thing that it doesn't make sense is keep playing him instead of VdB to help him to settle. I know he wasn't Ole's choice but he's a very good player and need to be backed and see what he ca offer to the team. Pogba wanted to go years ago, now it's sure he'll leave so why still play him? His agent statement just before the Leipzig game was all to Pogba. It seems that Pogba wanted him to do a lot more that he did to get his move this january.
 
TsuWave said:
Did we ever really have a "galactico approach"? I feel like this is a myth that wouldn't hold under inspection. We've always made signings with the intention of improving the players with the odd big money move for a few ready made ones.

I don't think there's ever been an extreme shift either way (aside from the no value in the market years)
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I don't think we ever reached Real Madrid levels of galactico endeavours, but there certainly was a period under LVG and Mourinho where the focus was on big name signings as opposed to the more prudent approach we'd seen in Ferguson's latter years. Notably the Di Maria, Schweinsteiger, Pogba, Sanchez, Ibrahimovic, Falcao signings etc (yes I know the latter two were free/loan signings, but they were still considered hollywood signings in the sense that it was a shoehorning of big names into the team). It certainly was an unprecedented transfer strategy by the club and one that's failed miserably. Even the 'lowkey' signings like Rojo and Blind were done mostly in response to solid performances in an international tournament, again a keystone of the galactico approach, and one we haven't adopted since we signed Kleberson.
 
Jaxa said:
Paul is not as integral as he once was for us, he will need to be replaced for sure but he's a luxury at this point and not crucial for us to progress as a team, if anything if we can find the right replacement it will be a positive if he leaves,

The issue is, i cannot see Juve finding enough cash to justify us selling to them, PSG for sure can afford it and i think they'd be interested but I don't think Paul fancies the french league, I do hope he moves on in the summer though, the best thing for all parties at this point.
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I'd argue he was never really integral for us at any point. Some of our best runs of form have been when he'd be sidelined - our turnaround last season when we mostly fielded a McTominay-Fred midfield was testament to that.
 
Kaos said:
I'd argue he was never really integral for us at any point. Some of our best runs of form have been when he'd be sidelined - our turnaround last season when we mostly fielded a McTominay-Fred midfield was testament to that.
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He was the catalyst to our record breaking winning streak that got Ole the permanent job.
 
Pogba is being paid at least double what Bruno is. Who is better value? Who is better for morale and results? I just dont get the Pogba apologists. Different players, managers and styles but both were played at 10- or 8 and 1/2. Bruno is just a better player in the attacking sense and he works much harder when we don’t have the ball. At the moment Pogba is a box to box on world class wages who can’t defend... or get in the team...
 
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Ali Dia said:
Pogba is being paid at least double what Bruno is. Who is better value? Who is better for moral and actual results? Don’t get the Pogba apologists.
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Pogba was double the cost (and more) in both wages and transfer fee. It looks even worse for him when all the factors are taken into account.
 
Infra-red said:
No. It might be a swap deal of some sort though, because, like most clubs, Juve aren't exactly cash rich at the moment.

Maybe someone like Bentancur coming the other way.
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Surely it has to be Cristiano or go away Juventus? I can almost guarantee whatever Ronaldo has left in the tank will be more than Pogba would do for us over the same period of time
 
TsuWave said:
I can. I like him as a player. Came through Carrington etc. Was also our best player for a couple years, and though inconsistent, he doesn't deserve to be the scapegoat for a club that's been in disarray for a while now. Unfortunately for him, that's the narrative.
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But he's not scapegoat isn't he? It's never him! We went through disaray and are finally getting better and while he could've taken the opportunity to try and do better when finally he was out of spotlight and the team was starting to click. No he wants the spotlight but not by overshadowing Fernandes and trying to match him on the field but rather to moan and sulk and threaten that he'll leave.
I honestly don't think he's a bad person but he's surely a bad character for our team.
The sooner he's out the better, we need a shift in mentality and we need it bad, we've already made strides but we need to cut loose leftovers from previous regime and need to build the squad carefully.

We are a young squad and we keep adding youth to it, we need to give them good role models for them to aspire to!
That's why Scott McTomminay already has had a better career here than Pogba. Even though he's far less talented than Paul, the true United mentality shines through his persona.

I'll leave you with Rocky quote that in my eyes sums Paul up perfectly, btw sorry for the huge rant.

"But it ain't about how hard you hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward; how much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done! Now, if you know what you're worth, then go out and get what you're worth. But you gotta be willing to take the hits, and not pointing fingers saying you ain't where you wanna be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that"
 
RUCK4444 said:
This. Sick of Italian teams pleading poverty with their hands out for players.

Pay up (like we did) or feck off. They get a fecking easy ride from the players who seemingly want to go there when their contracts are up.
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There is no easy ride.

juve are stuck with useless Ramsey at 400k/week for another 2.5 years.

80m in wages down the drain
 
golden_blunder said:
Simple fact is we paid €90m for him and he’s not come anywhere even remotely close to justifying his place in the team, never mind justifying the fee.
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Was it not £96 million? However, agreed completely with what you're saying.
 
TsuWave said:
He was the catalyst to our record breaking winning streak that got Ole the permanent job.
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He was also a similar weighted catalyst to the previous manager losing his job. But fair play to him for proving Mourinho wrong for a couple of months. He also has had virtually nothing to do with Ole keeping his job since then. Barely played and been making intense mistakes like handballs and penalties galore when he does play, scored a couple of goals but mostly just been plotting a move with his agent. Terrible legacy and he has ruined his reputation at the club for me. Probably wont win another trophy in his career after he goes. Such a waste of talent.
 
charlenefan said:
Surely it has to be Cristiano or go away Juventus? I can almost guarantee whatever Ronaldo has left in the tank will be more than Pogba would do for us over the same period of time
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I still think Ronaldo has 20+ goals a season left in him. He’s old now sure but no doubt the guy is still in great shape and he obviously looks after himself, I’d love to see him link up with Bruno at club level Even if it’s for a couple of years. It’d be the perfect end for Ronaldo finishing his career at United.
 
Sooner he leaves the better. Better for him and better for the club. His avid fans will still be heard around but in time less and less.
 
SinNombre said:
There is no easy ride.

juve are stuck with useless Ramsey at 400k/week for another 2.5 years.

80m in wages down the drain
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Yeah those are good examples of it going wrong but they’ve gotten where they are by doing this so it’s been a relatively successful in their league and the CL (although they haven’t won it during this time.)

So they have been pretty good at scrounging players on freebies and low balling clubs.
 
golden_blunder said:
No, he’s symbolic of the club in recent years. The price tag and the low return in performances.

we only have to look at Bruno to see what we could have got for cheaper if we’d shopped around. Also the fact he hit the ground running is a big mark against Pogba who should have produced more considering the hype. He’s a victim of his own ego
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Spot on. We've also had to put up with absolutely disrespectful bollocks from Pogba and his agent over the past few years, which makes many of his underwhelming performances all the more frustrating.

£89M poorly spent in my book, unless we manage to recoup a big chunk of that in the summer.
 
MikeKing said:
He was also a similar weighted catalyst to the previous manager losing his job. But fair play to him for proving Mourinho wrong for a couple of months. He also has had virtually nothing to do with Ole keeping his job since then. Barely played and been making intense mistakes like handballs and penalties galore when he does play, scored a couple of goals but mostly just been plotting a move with his agent. Terrible legacy and he has ruined his reputation at the club for me. Probably wont win another trophy in his career after he goes. Such a waste of talent.
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Did he not play a large role in a win at Newcastle, on the eve of which the rumours were that Jose was on the brink of being sacked? It’s time for Pogba to move on but I don’t get where this idea comes from that he got Jose sacked. Jose had stopped playing him as much toward the end, and was wholly responsible for getting himself sacked.
 
SinNombre said:
There is no easy ride.

juve are stuck with useless Ramsey at 400k/week for another 2.5 years.

80m in wages down the drain
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Where did you all get this number from? He is on €7m/year net, which makes €10m/year gross, due to fiscal advantage law for top personnel from abroad... which is about €200k/week gross.
 
For all those who were saying, it's his agent or it's his brtother who is saying that and that he's "innocent".
For all those who said in november 2019 that he's not refusing to play for usespite being fit as he waits for January transfer to Real Madrid.
Let me remind you that, for the last 2 years, he did not at any moment take a chance to rebut those "rumors" publicly nor did he prouve it on the pitch ..
Stop being naive
 
TsuWave said:
He was the catalyst to our record breaking winning streak that got Ole the permanent job.
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I think you'll find that it was actually Ole who was the catalyst to the record breaking winning streak post Mourinho.
Pogba was just one member of an entire squad which was rejuvenated after Mourinho left
 
sammsky1 said:
I think you'll find that it was actually Ole who was the catalyst to the record breaking winning streak post Mourinho.
Pogba was just one member of an entire squad which was rejuvenated after Mourinho left
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:lol:

You never fail to deliver.
 
SinNombre said:
There is no easy ride.

juve are stuck with useless Ramsey at 400k/week for another 2.5 years.

80m in wages down the drain
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This is an infinitely repeated urban legend that in the end is not true: Ramsey salary is 7 million euros net/year, around 10 gross with italian tax fees for foreign players.
 
Posh Red said:
Did he not play a large role in a win at Newcastle, on the eve of which the rumours were that Jose was on the brink of being sacked? It’s time for Pogba to move on but I don’t get where this idea comes from that he got Jose sacked. Jose had stopped playing him as much toward the end, and was wholly responsible for getting himself sacked.
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Well, Jose did lose the dressing room and if it weren't Pogba it could have been someone else, so I'm not saying he was responsible or got him sacked on his own. I'm saying his behaviour was as big of a catalyst in that as him getting Ole a job. Which I think is a fair claim and paints the perfect picture to describe both his contributions and problems.
 
M Bison said:
I always struggle with the point that players around him aren’t up to it so it’a dragged pogba down.

Grealish and Kalvin Phillips are 2 players which to me show their quality regardless of what’s around them and have elevated their teams, as has Bruno.
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Pogba has has 2/3 very good seasons, but fans expect a different level.

he had a year of 11 goals and 11 assists in a team that only scored poor 60 goals in total, yet people say he wasn’t good enough.

I think people can only remember how he’s played over the last year rather than his first few where he was excellent regularly, but he’s always had the habit of being inconsistent and poor defensively.
 
MileStolar said:
But he's not scapegoat isn't he? It's never him! We went through disaray and are finally getting better and while he could've taken the opportunity to try and do better when finally he was out of spotlight and the team was starting to click. No he wants the spotlight but not by overshadowing Fernandes and trying to match him on the field but rather to moan and sulk and threaten that he'll leave.
I honestly don't think he's a bad person but he's surely a bad character for our team.
The sooner he's out the better, we need a shift in mentality and we need it bad, we've already made strides but we need to cut loose leftovers from previous regime and need to build the squad carefully.

We are a young squad and we keep adding youth to it, we need to give them good role models for them to aspire to!
That's why Scott McTomminay already has had a better career here than Pogba. Even though he's far less talented than Paul, the true United mentality shines through his persona.

I'll leave you with Rocky quote that in my eyes sums Paul up perfectly, btw sorry for the huge rant.

"But it ain't about how hard you hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward; how much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done! Now, if you know what you're worth, then go out and get what you're worth. But you gotta be willing to take the hits, and not pointing fingers saying you ain't where you wanna be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that"
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Great post,
One of the best I have read.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Pogba has has 2/3 very good seasons, but fans expect a different level.

he had a year of 11 goals and 11 assists in a team that only scored poor 60 goals in total, yet people say he wasn’t good enough.

I think people can only remember how he’s played over the last year rather than his first few where he was excellent regularly, but he’s always had the habit of being inconsistent and poor defensively.
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Pogba has this "world class" tag associated with him. If the expectation from him, is just be better than Matic, Herrera, McT and the likes, then yes, he has done an excellent job.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Pogba has has 2/3 very good seasons, but fans expect a different level.

he had a year of 11 goals and 11 assists in a team that only scored poor 60 goals in total, yet people say he wasn’t good enough.

I think people can only remember how he’s played over the last year rather than his first few where he was excellent regularly, but he’s always had the habit of being inconsistent and poor defensively.
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I just can't fathom how anyone can say he's had 2/3 'very good' seasons. In his first season he was good/decent but was outshone by Herrera and Zlatan who had much better seasons, his second season was blighted by injury and then the fallout with Jose, his third season was his best after Jose left which meant a good run of form for two/three months before the whole team went into meltdown. 4th season was injury plagued and was just ok/decent when he came back. This season has been the usual mixed bag.

How can anyone say he's had 2/3 'very good' seasons for an 89 million pound player? :wenger: His time here has been a waste of our time and his.
 
Irwin99 said:
I just can't fathom how anyone can say he's had 2/3 'very good' seasons. In his first season he was good/decent but was outshone by Herrera and Zlatan who had much better seasons, his second season was blighted by injury and then the fallout with Jose, his third season was his best after Jose left which meant a good run of form for two/three months before the whole team went into meltdown. 4th season was injury plagued and was just ok/decent when he came back. This season has been the usual mixed bag.

How can anyone say he's had 2/3 'very good' seasons for an 89 million pound player? :wenger: His time here has been a waste of our time and his.
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Yet again bringing the fee into it. Stop thinking of how much a transfer cost and you’ll maybe have a clear head.

his job at United has been to build up play and create chances, and he’s done plenty well. All the stats show he was going that.

since his injury he’s struggled to reach his best and he might not ever reach it again. I just don’t get why people have to pretend he’s been awful for 5 years when it’s just not true.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
So we’ve got a summer of Juve bringing the begging bowl whilst fat lad mouths off in the press. Lovely.
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Nope... starting as soon as next Monday for a mix & match (Ramsey, Bernardeschi, Bentancur, Rabiot, eventually Rugani and De Sciglio) plain swap :lol:
 
piesel said:
This is an infinitely repeated urban legend that in the end is not true: Ramsey salary is 7 million euros net/year, around 10 gross with italian tax fees for foreign players.
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I believe his wage was inflated as they gave him a signing on fee which was paid over the course of the year
 
Adam-Utd said:
Pogba has has 2/3 very good seasons, but fans expect a different level.

he had a year of 11 goals and 11 assists in a team that only scored poor 60 goals in total, yet people say he wasn’t good enough.

I think people can only remember how he’s played over the last year rather than his first few where he was excellent regularly, but he’s always had the habit of being inconsistent and poor defensively.
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He’s never been excellent regularly, not in the last year, not at any time before that. That’s exactly why people are done with him and why he’s had question marks over him pretty much since he joined.
 
If pogba leaves this summer which is looking more and more likely I don’t think his second stint here can be seen as anything but a failure.
I, like most probably, was delighted when we signed him and thought it was perfect timing for both club and player (us to start challenging again and pogba to take the next step and become one of the worlds best players) but it’s all been abit....meh. He’s not been terrible by any means but I don’t think anyone can honestly say what we’ve got from him is what we were hoping for when we re-signed him
 
Bepi said:
Where did you all get this number from? He is on €7m/year net, which makes €10m/year gross, due to fiscal advantage law for top personnel from abroad... which is about €200k/week gross.
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Direct quote from BBC Sport:

www.bbc.com/sport/amp/football/47203118

Highest British paid player in history. Probably £400k/ week gross but still an eye-watering amount of money.
 
Isn't Bentancur a Carrickesque player? Haven't seen much of him but that's the vibe I get. We might ask for him + money.
 
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