Raiola: "I can say that it's over for Pogba at United"

Traub said:
Because football players aren't educated in negotiations.

Just remember we are all extremely biased towards the club's side. We want what is best for the club - and this includes getting rid of players as soon as they are not deemed good enough. For example, most on here think DDG is done and should've never gotten that big contract. But what about the year's of service when we were absolute shite and he was the best GK in the world? Should he not be rewarded for that?

Clubs are for profit entities, and at the end of the day they will pay a player less than their worth if the player accepts. Clubs have suits running the show, and these suits are a lot more business savvy than a 25 year old with no formal higher education. If I was a player, I'd 100% have an agent - these players need to be out for themselves over their very short careers.
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I think a whole lot of this is overstated.

I mean lets take the person in question here, Pogba. If I'm Pogba, regardless of form, I'm saying to Ed 'listen I'm a world cup winning player approaching my prime years, I want parity with the best paid players at the club or I'm moving on.'

Ed comes back with what he wants to offer. If Pogba doesn't like it he sounds out other possible suitors. Depending on their interest he comes back to Ed and barters more or takes a deal elsewhere.

If I'm Ed I would prefer to hear it from the horses mouth and it would have more substance to it rather than through some fat money grabbing idiot who everybody knows is only there to make money out of the situation.

The game cannot allow these guys to be pocketing 20, 30, million through agents fees. It's just ridiculous and is inflating an already unsustainable market for players.

If they really do need these guys to take care of business for them and hold their hands then the clubs must unilaterally agree to cap agents fees.
 
RUCK4444 said:
I think a whole lot of this is overstated.

I mean lets take the person in question here, Pogba. If I'm Pogba, regardless of form, I'm saying to Ed 'listen I'm a world cup winning player approaching my prime years, I want parity with the best paid players at the club or I'm moving on.'

Ed comes back with what he wants to offer. If Pogba doesn't like it he sounds out other possible suitors. Depending on their interest he comes back to Ed and barters more or takes a deal elsewhere.

If I'm Ed I would prefer to hear it from the horses mouth and it would have more substance to it rather than through some fat money grabbing idiot who everybody knows is only there to make money out of the situation.

The game cannot allow these guys to be pocketing 20, 30, million through agents fees. It's just ridiculous and is inflating an already unsustainable market for players.

If they really do need these guys to take care of business for them and hold their hands then the clubs must unilaterally agree to cap agents fees.
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From what I've read, in a fair few instances, especially with some of these larger agents, the agents not only take care of things with respect to negotiations with the club, but also take care of outside of football investments for them, other commercial deals, and help with things that assist in their day to day functioning. Actors and musicians and such have agents, and footballers have just as much need for them as anyone else with that much money and that many things going on in their life.
 
Cloud7 said:
From what I've read, in a fair few instances, especially with some of these larger agents, the agents not only take care of things with respect to negotiations with the club, but also take care of outside of football investments for them, other commercial deals, and help with things that assist in their day to day functioning. Actors and musicians and such have agents, and footballers have just as much need for them as anyone else with that much money and that many things going on in their life.
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There must be some reason for them, I just find it staggering the money they command.

Doesn’t seem anything that a basic management team couldn’t cover for a sight less than 20-30 million a pop.
 
RUCK4444 said:
There must be some reason for them, I just find it staggering the money they command.

Doesn’t seem anything that a basic management team couldn’t cover for a sight less than 20-30 million a pop.
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I think you'll find the agents are often negotiating a broad range of commercial contracts and sponsorship on top of the club contract. If this is the case, it helps them to negotiate with every separate party if they have a single view of what the opportunities, pressures and influences are around a player's current situation. In this respect, they are no different to a movie or pop star.

The great majority of players regardless of where they come from, will have spent their formative years focusing on the pitch rather than academic stuff. This isn't to say they aren't capable of looking after their own interests but usually, it would not be their forte. You also need to remember that for a large number, English isn't their native language (as it isn't for some agents, admittedly).

The commission they earn is high but from their client's perspective, if the agent keeps getting them big pay rises and transfers on top of image rights etc, then it's worth the cost.

To add some context, a partner in an accountancy practice like PwC or Deloitte will bill clients at a rate of around £1500 per hour that they spend working on that company's business. They justify this with the Cheryl Cole "Because I'm worth it" line which really isn't any different to what a football agent will be saying to a club about his client.
 
RUCK4444 said:
There must be some reason for them, I just find it staggering the money they command.

Doesn’t seem anything that a basic management team couldn’t cover for a sight less than 20-30 million a pop.
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A lot of the money they earn is from transfer fees that aren't paid by the player though.
 
This guy resurfaces like a failed flusher. I’m kinda fed up of him and his cash cow and would rather we get the money ASAP and go after Grealish using it and likely more cash.
 
Relevated said:
A lot of the money they earn is from transfer fees that aren't paid by the player though.
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Yea I'm aware of that, but if the player uses his brain he could say to the buying club, pay me that huge agent fee instead as a form of signing on fee (or at least a large part of that agent fee.)

Raiola made what £25-30 MILLION on the Pogba move!? You can't tell me that the only reason that move materialised was because Manchester United had the pleasure of dealing with this fat bast&rd, in fact it would have happened in spite of him being involved.

Not to mention if a club as naive with money as Manchester United want a player as much as we did with Pogba then any old dipstick could broker the deal.
 
Traub said:
Because football players aren't educated in negotiations.

Just remember we are all extremely biased towards the club's side. We want what is best for the club - and this includes getting rid of players as soon as they are not deemed good enough. For example, most on here think DDG is done and should've never gotten that big contract. But what about the year's of service when we were absolute shite and he was the best GK in the world? Should he not be rewarded for that?

Clubs are for profit entities, and at the end of the day they will pay a player less than their worth if the player accepts. Clubs have suits running the show, and these suits are a lot more business savvy than a 25 year old with no formal higher education. If I was a player, I'd 100% have an agent - these players need to be out for themselves over their very short careers.
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Two points, he was never the best goalkeeper in the world, best shot stopper yes, but best keeper, no, and he was rewarded, every week with a salary.
 
Plymouth Red said:
I think you'll find the agents are often negotiating a broad range of commercial contracts and sponsorship on top of the club contract. If this is the case, it helps them to negotiate with every separate party if they have a single view of what the opportunities, pressures and influences are around a player's current situation. In this respect, they are no different to a movie or pop star.

The great majority of players regardless of where they come from, will have spent their formative years focusing on the pitch rather than academic stuff. This isn't to say they aren't capable of looking after their own interests but usually, it would not be their forte. You also need to remember that for a large number, English isn't their native language (as it isn't for some agents, admittedly).

The commission they earn is high but from their client's perspective, if the agent keeps getting them big pay rises and transfers on top of image rights etc, then it's worth the cost.

To add some context, a partner in an accountancy practice like PwC or Deloitte will bill clients at a rate of around £1500 per hour that they spend working on that company's business. They justify this with the Cheryl Cole "Because I'm worth it" line which really isn't any different to what a football agent will be saying to a club about his client.
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I appreciate some players need help financially but the numbers mentioned seem absurd and must on some level affect the players and clubs.

On the bolded, to get near what Raiola made on Pogba's transfer he would need to spend 1666 hours working on this transfer alone. Just seems absurd. I can't believe we paid it to be honest.
 
RUCK4444 said:
I appreciate some players need help financially but the numbers mentioned seem absurd and must on some level affect the players and clubs.

On the bolded, to get near what Raiola made on Pogba's transfer he would need to spend 1666 hours working on this transfer alone. Just seems absurd. I can't believe we paid it to be honest.
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Boils down to supply and demand for a one of a kind product. Which is fine, as long as the product delivers!
 
If players had to pay agents instead of the clubs, then the agents fees wouldn't go away...the transfers would just become bigger to compensate.
 
RUCK4444 said:
No I disagree. Normal people make business decisions every day, a lot of people do, there’s nothing overly clever about that.

You don’t need a degree to ask for more money. But a naive man can be fooled out of his own money.

I get that they ‘have connections’ but top footballers like Pogba would have clubs hounding him, not the other way around.

I think this is why we are seeing some players employ their own family as agents rather than scum like this guy.
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But getting deals is more complicated than you think. A player shouldn't negotiate their own deals because they have to maintain a good relationship with the club. An agent doesn't have to do that, because clubs will try to screw players as much as they can, and will use the fans and support against them. It becomes an emotional situation, which is something you never want in business but it's a tactic clubs will use all of the time. An agent has no emotional attachement to any club or fans, and he will fight to get you the best deal, as well as negotiate other endorsement deals. Top players simply don't have enough time to deal with all of these negotiations. I see some give shit to players like Lingard or Rashford when they try to create a brand or clothing designs, saying they should focus on the game. Imagine if they had to go through weeks of negotiations on their own for every deals, what would people say then?

Agents are necessary, just because you're a great player and will be in demand doesn't make negotiations any easier or less time-consuming. Again, most of these players are now more educated financially than previous generations, and they still will give up millions to their agent, there's more than one good reason why.
 
RUCK4444 said:
Yea I'm aware of that, but if the player uses his brain he could say to the buying club, pay me that huge agent fee instead as a form of signing on fee (or at least a large part of that agent fee.)

Raiola made what £25-30 MILLION on the Pogba move!? You can't tell me that the only reason that move materialised was because Manchester United had the pleasure of dealing with this fat bast&rd, in fact it would have happened in spite of him being involved.

Not to mention if a club as naive with money as Manchester United want a player as much as we did with Pogba then any old dipstick could broker the deal.
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The player, in general, doesn't wanna bother will all this stuff. Just see them as what they often are, overgrown kids. The agents optimizes the player's earning and takes care of many other things we're not privy to.
In a super greedy world, no amount of money is spent stupidly. Ronaldo offered an island to Mendes as a wedding gift
 
RUCK4444 said:
Yea I'm aware of that, but if the player uses his brain he could say to the buying club, pay me that huge agent fee instead as a form of signing on fee (or at least a large part of that agent fee.)

Raiola made what £25-30 MILLION on the Pogba move!? You can't tell me that the only reason that move materialised was because Manchester United had the pleasure of dealing with this fat bast&rd, in fact it would have happened in spite of him being involved.

Not to mention if a club as naive with money as Manchester United want a player as much as we did with Pogba then any old dipstick could broker the deal.
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a big % of that was payable from Juventus, and as a result of him going there on the first place. He got paid twice, once by Juventus, and secondly for the transfer to United. The total fees weren’t payable by us.
 
I’d rather we stay away from Raiola players in future. Not worth the hassle and a high likelihood of sowing discord.
 
Can we also say that its over for Raiola at United too? I don't care if Haaland is his player (like we'd even sign him anyway), the sooner we're rid of the fat shit stirrer, the better. Maybe he can see off his relationship with us by securing a move for his most prestigious client Lingardinho too.
 
All this yadda yadda and we don't receive any credible offers for Pogba. Not from Juve, not from Real. Not from anyone.

I'm fairly certain we will sell at the right price.

Terrible agent.
 
spiriticon said:
All this yadda yadda and we don't receive any credible offers for Pogba. Not from Juve, not from Real. Not from anyone.

I'm fairly certain we will sell at the right price.

Terrible agent.
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He's a great agent for his client.

Keeps transfer fees low while he and his client gets paid.
 
elmo said:
He's a great agent for his client.

Keeps transfer fees low while he and his client gets paid.
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And yet he can't convince anyone to put in a decent bid for his world cup winning client in the last 3 years
 
It'll be strange to look back at Pogba's career when he retires

Le Harve
Man Utd
Juventus
Man Utd
Juventus
???....

Seems so strange to leave here only to go to Juventus again
 
charlenefan said:
It'll be strange to look back at Pogba's career when he retires

Le Harve
Man Utd
Juventus
Man Utd
Juventus
???....

Seems so strange to leave here only to go to Juventus again
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One things for certain though. He'll never play for us again after he leaves this time.
 
Kaos said:
Can we also say that its over for Raiola at United too? I don't care if Haaland is his player (like we'd even sign him anyway), the sooner we're rid of the fat shit stirrer, the better. Maybe he can see off his relationship with us by securing a move for his most prestigious client Lingardinho too.
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Didn't they part ways a few months ago?
 
charlenefan said:
It'll be strange to look back at Pogba's career when he retires

Le Harve
Man Utd
Juventus
Man Utd
Juventus
???....

Seems so strange to leave here only to go to Juventus again
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Only other realisitc options would be Real Madrid and I dont see him there, He is not a Barca type player or Bayern. I could see him at PSG for the €€€€€, sorry I mean the challenge.
 
charlenefan said:
Can anyone say they're happy we signed him again in the first place?
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I can. I like him as a player. Came through Carrington etc. Was also our best player for a couple years, and though inconsistent, he doesn't deserve to be the scapegoat for a club that's been in disarray for a while now. Unfortunately for him, that's the narrative.
 
davidmichael said:
https://www.theunitedstand.com/arti...-about-stars-transfer-hopes-manchester-united

Romano saying Juventus are desperate for Pogba in the summer and their number one target.
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I‘m expecting Real to get involved as well. He’s highly marketable. I just hope United don’t price him out of a move and end up lumbered with an unmotivated player for another 12 months. His time is up the sooner he goes better for all parties. I’d say we‘ll end up with a swap deal, as Juve need players off the books as their wage bill has no room for Pogba and Real are in a similar position.
 
charlenefan said:
It'll be strange to look back at Pogba's career when he retires

Le Harve
Man Utd
Juventus
Man Utd
Juventus
???....

Seems so strange to leave here only to go to Juventus again
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Right I can read the pattern, perhaps he will come back to Manchester again in future and then spend his final years in Le Harve.
 
TsuWave said:
I can. I like him as a player. Came through Carrington etc. Was also our best player for a couple years, and though inconsistent, he doesn't deserve to be the scapegoat for a club that's been in disarray for a while now. Unfortunately for him, that's the narrative.
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No, he’s symbolic of the club in recent years. The price tag and the low return in performances.

we only have to look at Bruno to see what we could have got for cheaper if we’d shopped around. Also the fact he hit the ground running is a big mark against Pogba who should have produced more considering the hype. He’s a victim of his own ego
 
TsuWave said:
I can. I like him as a player. Came through Carrington etc. Was also our best player for a couple years, and though inconsistent, he doesn't deserve to be the scapegoat for a club that's been in disarray for a while now. Unfortunately for him, that's the narrative.
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I agree to an extent, while at the same time I’m at a point where I’m sort of exhausted by the combination of his weaknesses (can never learn to make the right choices in midfield) and his torpedo. I do believe Paul is a nice lad who wants to help the other lads and the team, and his big fee is on us and not on him. Still, if after four years in midfield you’re still unable to take a defensive run one of three times, or play a quick sideways pass out from pressure in your own half, and your torpedo keeps on attacking the club and making a mess while being your employee, it just gets to me.

All in all, I think it’s fair to say Paul has been one of the best players at the club in the period he’s been there, and what we paid for him is our choice and not his, so he deserves respect for that. And some fantastic moments in terms of plays.
 
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