I'm saying Ferguson defends his players and won't criticize them in public. You should know this. He was singing De Gea's praises while dropping him last season. You can be sure he's praising Rafael on his attacking, while all the while giving him a bollocking bout his defensive play.
Rafael da Silva | 2010-14 Performances
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I'm saying Ferguson defends his players and won't criticize them in public. You should know this. He was singing De Gea's praises while dropping him last season. You can be sure he's praising Rafael on his attacking, while all the while giving him a bollocking bout his defensive play.
Ehh...all managers make mistakes. He never really fit our style, a bit like Berbatov, but he was a good player.
You'd know this, how?
He was rightly praised for his all round performance in a game which helped United win.
I'd say he'll be more concerned with Young getting out muscled by Damien Duff and helping Vidic find a lighter pair of boots to be honest.
Watch any documentary or read any book about Ferguson. Especially the bits about his time in Aberdeen.
true - he also thought djemba djemba , the both of them , were good enough. turned out neither one was.
Second half, he certainly wasn't exclusively at fault for the second, but he played his part by jogging back whilst everyone tried to position themselves. There was one other occasion where he lost the ball and was well out of position, fortunately, it came to nothing, but on another day he'd get exploited.
Oliver Kay on twitter's summed my views up perfectly.
Oliver Kay on twitter's summed my views up perfectly.
Oliver Kay's based his opinion only on 5 minutes of MOTD highlights, the feckwit
Which he admitted. I didn't watch the highlights, but most of his contributions should be in there. It'll have also missed out some of his defensive mistakes. Swings and Roundabouts Cutch.
The highlights wouldn't have shown the other 85 minutes that he was generally solid including any attacks he prevented down his side as that would make for boring tv. Fair enough to make observations based on them but can't form any real conclusions, especially with the way BBC edit
Very good going forward but he remains a liability at the back. He needs to be pushed into a position further forward
I think his underlying point was that he'd be better suited as a winger.
He was great going forward. Was decent defensively. He's had far better matches for us in the latter respect. He has it in him. Just sometimes he's awful going forward and great at the back and vice versa other times. Then there are the times he's great at both. He's had far more good games in both the attacking and defensive thirds for us than bad ones. Once he gets a regular run of games he'll show his worth.
Are you this angry a man in real life?
Ha, I couldn't stop smiling through that. Infectious.
Really do think he'll be a top player here. He's been at such a disadvantage throughout his career here in a sense, what with playing so little football for Fluminense, going straight into the United first team and having to put with a feck load of injuries at such a young age, but that was encouraging today. Not absolutely sound defensively by any means, but some quality play going forward. We know he can defend - the consistency will come.
To be honest, I was quite concerned that we'd really strip Rafael of his attacking attributes in the process of turning him into a top class defender, but there were no signs of that today. In particular, that turn leading up to Kagawa's chance was class.
Really do think he'll be a top player here. He's been at such a disadvantage throughout his career here in a sense, what with playing so little football for Fluminense, going straight into the United first team and having to put with a feck load of injuries at such a young age, but that was encouraging today. Not absolutely sound defensively by any means, but some quality play going forward. We know he can defend - the consistency will come.
To be honest, I was quite concerned that we'd really strip Rafael of his attacking attributes in the process of turning him into a top class defender, but there were no signs of that today. In particular, that turn leading up to Kagawa's chance was class.
If we played with wing backs, Rafael and Fabio could be world class already
According to Popper we already do.
The most stupid comment in the history of the caf, this should just be highlighted again and again and again.
The most stupid comment in the history of the caf, this should just be highlighted again and again and again.
Staggering isn't it. Never mind that he's played 6 full games in the space of a couple of weeks prior none of which were for us, and only joined up with the club a few days before. No, he's dropped for having 1 poor game in a pre season game for his country
You guys need to remember that when playing for a top club like ourselves, Real, Barca etc the FBs job becomes almost primarily to attack. FWIW I don't think Rafael is bad defensively anyway, he wasn't brilliant in that aspect yesterday it's true, but that was without a doubt one of his weaker defensive performances and the amount he contributes going forwards makes up for it.
Plus with a defensively responsible winger like Valencia in front of him, and when Carrick can move back into midfield, both will afford him some cover. The Carrick point is doubly the case, we need to remember that Rafael is playing next to a CM rather than a proper CB - put a Vidic or Rio next to him to give him shouts, tell him when to stay back and the likes, with Carrick then back to his natural position, and Rafael suddenly is a lot more competent defensively.
Plus with a defensively responsible winger like Valencia in front of him, and when Carrick can move back into midfield, both will afford him some cover. The Carrick point is doubly the case, we need to remember that Rafael is playing next to a CM rather than a proper CB - put a Vidic or Rio next to him to give him shouts, tell him when to stay back and the likes, with Carrick then back to his natural position, and Rafael suddenly is a lot more competent defensively.
We've seen Rafael make Ronaldinho, ribery and Bale his bitch. That's why i'm not worried about his defensive abilities. I just don't think Ferguson tells him to sit back, because Fergie is not a cautious manager most of the time.
Yup, same with Evra.
Problem half the Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime on here have is that they want perfect performances, it's gotten pretty ridiculous.
I think we were actually spoilt with Evra at his best in a sense. Some of the performances he put in, in particular during those 08/09 and 09/10 seasons, were just absolutely ridiculous. The level of contribution was almost impossible in an attacking and defensive sense.
That, for me, was good enough from Rafael yesterday.
That, for me, was good enough from Rafael yesterday.
Again it's worth reiterating that for a young full back it will make a lot of difference having an experienced CB next to you. Someone who can give shouts and instructions. For Rafael at his age and coming from Brazil where the FBs are so attacking minded, this would be important.
Carrick being at CB means he doesn't get any of this, and also meant our midfield three of Anderson, Cleverley and Kagawa were highly unlikely to offer much protection to him or the rest of the back four.
Carrick being at CB means he doesn't get any of this, and also meant our midfield three of Anderson, Cleverley and Kagawa were highly unlikely to offer much protection to him or the rest of the back four.
Tell you what Liam, next time you're watching a highlights reel see whose overlapping our wingers 9 out of 10 times the have the ball.
These few posts sums up the thread. All very valid points.
This piece from Gary Neville highlights how modern day full back position has developed.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ill-Brendan-Rodgers-able-curb-enthusiasm.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ill-Brendan-Rodgers-able-curb-enthusiasm.html
If you're referring to the first goal; Young did not get out muscled by Duff, but was body checked by Dembele or Diarra before the goal. Watch it again, clear free kick.
I don't think Evra put in many defensive shows as bad as that, last season, yet he was continually castigated for it.
Rafael's going to be a fecking good player for us, but he got beaten 4 or 5 times yesterday; for dead, and against better opposition that could've cost us 2-3 goals.
Attacking wise, that's the best I've seen him.
However, people really ought to get off Paddy's back every time he's beaten; Rafael defensively yesterday was pretty much as low as he's played for us in recent memory, and if Paddy had played like that defensively, it would've been worse than I can remember seeing him last season (Evra was tight defensively, by the way, against Everton and today!). Evra always attacks well, and it seems like Rafael can too, and even score (something which Paddy can't!).
Rafael's going to be a fecking good player for us, but he got beaten 4 or 5 times yesterday; for dead, and against better opposition that could've cost us 2-3 goals.
Attacking wise, that's the best I've seen him.
However, people really ought to get off Paddy's back every time he's beaten; Rafael defensively yesterday was pretty much as low as he's played for us in recent memory, and if Paddy had played like that defensively, it would've been worse than I can remember seeing him last season (Evra was tight defensively, by the way, against Everton and today!). Evra always attacks well, and it seems like Rafael can too, and even score (something which Paddy can't!).
For what it's worth I thought both our full backs were quite good yesterday.
You cannot ve talking about the game where he got sent off, ultimately sending us out of the Champions League.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but put it this way, I never ever felt worried when Neville and Brown were flying past our wingers. But it's like someone needs to remind him that if we lose the ball, he'll have to go back in defence. After all, they're wing backs, they still need to defend. It's a hard role to play because you're playing two positions at once, and against a team like Fulham, who aren't the mugs they once were it's dangerous to play how he did (at times) yesterday. Don't get me wrong, his attacking input was great yesterday, and part of the reason we won, but his defensive input was nearly the reason we didn't. When we've only got one proper centre half I think you need more support from your full backs than Rafael offered.
I felt Rafael played rather well yesterday. He was great going forward and deserved the goal he got. Sure he made a few mistakes at the back, but we know he has it in him to be much better defensively than what he showed today.
If he keeps putting in performances like last nights out and improves on his defending then I'll be very happy.
If he keeps putting in performances like last nights out and improves on his defending then I'll be very happy.
I find it odd that Rafa is being blamed for Fulham's second, if you watch the replay Valencia has taken responsibility for the player who got the cross in whilst Rafa is watching the player hovering around the edge of the box.
Who is blaming him for the 2nd?
But the 1st was obviously mostly his doing. He gave it away, got it back and gave it away again.
But then again we also failed to defend the set piece too.
He is a cracking young player. But he is without doubt a liability at times when defending. So it will be great when we have Jones and Smalling back fit so we can rotate.
I would play Rafael in pretty much every home game. But Jones or Smalling in many of our away's.
But the 1st was obviously mostly his doing. He gave it away, got it back and gave it away again.
But then again we also failed to defend the set piece too.
He is a cracking young player. But he is without doubt a liability at times when defending. So it will be great when we have Jones and Smalling back fit so we can rotate.
I would play Rafael in pretty much every home game. But Jones or Smalling in many of our away's.
As Seagull pointed out, cross into United box = shit full backs. Well on here at least.
I can't see how either goal can be considered his fault. Young lost his man for the first and Vidic/DDG made a meal of the cross for the second.
For me I'd be starting Rafael in every game that he is available. Generally with Valencia in front of him. Those two have a really good understanding and the more they play together the better they will get.
For me I'd be starting Rafael in every game that he is available. Generally with Valencia in front of him. Those two have a really good understanding and the more they play together the better they will get.
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