Rafael da Silva | 2010-14 Performances

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lysglimt said:
So you are saying - he should be blamed for being overrun in a duel by someone 15 cm taller than him and who is a brilliant header of a ball ?

Why not blame Kagawa who was sleeping when losing the ball

Why not blame Ferdinand who failed to put Lambert offside by not being wary of the striker (and don't tell me it's Rafaels job to mark Lambert when he is the only Soton-player in the box)
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Think it comes down to the fact that yes anyone can make a mistake but it's when these same mistakes are made over and over that annoys people. Rafa is small and got targeted by Southampton. There is every chance lambert would have beaten him in the air anyhow but his positioning and body shape was poor and it cost us as it did vs Everton he needs to work on his concentration and awearness
 
Lawman said:
Think it comes down to the fact that yes anyone can make a mistake but it's when these same mistakes are made over and over that annoys people. Rafa is small and got targeted by Southampton. There is every chance lambert would have beaten him in the air anyhow but his positioning and body shape was poor and it cost us as it did vs Everton he needs to work on his concentration and awearness
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If someone are allowed to repeatedly hit unpressurized crosses into our back post area, we ARE going to lose goals by full backs not winning the aerial battles against smart strikers who target them.

I can't say I blame Rafael for that first goal at all. If he had prevented it, it would have been an absolutely terrific piece of defending. Cleverley and Evra for me has to take the lion's share of the blame, partly Kagawa and Rio as well.
 
I'm always right said:
Evra? why?
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Because he stood off Puncheon and let him hit the cross completely unchallenged. At least make it hard for them to pull it off, when their tactics are that staggeringly obvious(target the back post and the opposite full back, both goals from those positions.)

Even Fergie said we had been working on defending back post crosses all week, so it's disappointing really, yeah it's no doubt about that.
 
marjen said:
Because he stood off Puncheon and let him hit the cross completely unchallenged. At least make it hard for them to pull it off, when their tactics are that staggeringly obvious(target the back post and the opposite full back, both goals from those positions.)
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Not having that at all, we're caught out by the Cleverley ball and Evra can't go rushing in there or he'll no doubt be skinned as he was in the second half.
 
I'm always right said:
Not having that at all, we're caught out by the Cleverley ball and Evra can't go rushing in there or he'll no doubt be skinned as he was in the second half.
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But you see, when he got skinned in the second half he didn't rush in, he simply stood on his heels until Puncheon simply ran past him - it's Evra's newfound way of defending, in existence since about the 2010 World Cup.

And as for the goal, he does go in too quickly at first, hence why he's completely fooled by the first touch of Puncheon, which in reality is a tad too heavy and could have allowed Evra to move in and at least disrupt the cross.

Watch it again.

And also, I'm not having that it's Rafael's fault for that goal. Not at all.
 
marjen said:
Watch it again.

And also, I'm not having that it's Rafael's fault for that goal. Not at all.
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Watched it again, and again.

Came to the conclusion that Rio and Cleverley are at fault, not our full-backs. Pretty much what I thought on first watch too.

Cleverley most at fault, telegraphed his pass. Good goal by them.
 
I'm always right said:
Watched it again, and again.

Came to the conclusion that Rio and Cleverley are at fault, not our full-backs. Pretty much what I thought on first watch too.

Cleverley most at fault, telegraphed his pass. Good goal by them.
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Completely agree - I wouldn't blame Rio too much either. When a left footed right winger is at the corner of the box you are pretty much stuck between a rock and a hard place. If you rush the player, you get skinned, if you don't they can cross. Normally, a cross from that position shouldn't be as dangerous as one from the byline - so imo Evra did nothing wrong. Cleverley is most to blame for me, but all in all it was a good move from them.

Rafael shouldn't be blamed at all - he is surprisingly good in the air, but few defenders, if any would have been victorious there.
 
Rossa said:
Completely agree - I wouldn't blame Rio too much either. When a left footed right winger is at the corner of the box you are pretty much stuck between a rock and a hard place. If you rush the player, you get skinned, if you don't they can cross. Normally, a cross from that position shouldn't be as dangerous as one from the byline - so imo Evra did nothing wrong. Cleverley is most to blame for me, but all in all it was a good move from them.

Rafael shouldn't be blamed at all - he is surprisingly good in the air, but few defenders, if any would have been victorious there.
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Rafael's positioning was good as well. He was right there but was outjumped. I still that the ref could have given a foul btw.
 
Godfather said:
Rafael's positioning was good as well. He was right there but was outjumped. I still that the ref could have given a foul btw.
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I thought a clear foul when i saw it at first, but on second viewing he was just outjumped by a much larger striker - there were no hands involved, so it was about as clean as it can get imo. How on earth DDG did not get a foul against Fellaini last match is a bloody disgrace though - you could potentially get red carded for what the hairdo did!
 
Cutch said:
Standing with your back to the attacker seemingly totally unaware of where Lambert was standing is not good positioning
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Aye. If you look at the goal, as we're dispossessed he's trying to break forward, which is fair enough as that's what we do. Neither Cleverley or Kagawa do particularly well (though more blame has to go to Cleverley). But as Schneiderlinn, who dispossessed Kagawa, lays the ball inside to Davis, Rafael doesn't look to drop in and cover, he's just jogging back.

Just before Davis lays the ball out to Puncheon, Rio points out to Rafa that he's got a man on. Rafael doesn't really react quickly enough to that. I think Rio would have gone out to him to challenge Lambert but after pushing the ball wide Davis makes a run towards the penalty spot which is on Vidic's blind side and Rio has to decide whether to stick or twist. If Rio goes out to Lambert and Puncheon drops the ball on the penalty spot then Davis has a tap in, as no midfielder has gone with him.

Rafael should have been aware of where Lambert was and been in a position to make winning the ball difficult for Lambert, much like Gary Neville was brilliant at. But because he's slightly out of position he can only really jump from almost a standing start and he's not tight enough on Lambert to stop him winning the ball cleanly. That said, even if he had done that Lambert might well have beaten him to it.

This video was the best I could find.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xt8lmj_sou_sport?start=179
 
Brophs said:
Aye. If you look at the goal, as we're dispossessed he's trying to break forward, which is fair enough as that's what we do. Neither Cleverley or Kagawa do particularly well (though more blame has to go to Cleverley). But as Schneiderlinn, who dispossessed Kagawa, lays the ball inside to Davis, Rafael doesn't look to drop in and cover, he's just jogging back.

Just before Davis lays the ball out to Puncheon, Rio points out to Rafa that he's got a man on. Rafael doesn't really react quickly enough to that. I think Rio would have gone out to him to challenge Lambert but after pushing the ball wide Davis makes a run towards the penalty spot which is on Vidic's blind side and Rio has to decide whether to stick or twist. If Rio goes out to Lambert and Puncheon drops the ball on the penalty spot then Davis has a tap in, as no midfielder has gone with him.

Rafael should have been aware of where Lambert was and been in a position to make winning the ball difficult for Lambert, much like Gary Neville was brilliant at. But because he's slightly out of position he can only really jump from almost a standing start and he's not tight enough on Lambert to stop him winning the ball cleanly. That said, even if he had done that Lambert might well have beaten him to it.

This video was the best I could find.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xt8lmj_sou_sport?start=179
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Yep. I certainly wouldnt go as far as to blame Rafael for the goal, but theres no doubt as far as i'm concerned that he could have done better to prevent it. Obviously the odds are against him beating Lambert in the air but if he rotated himself towards the player slightly and dropped a yard or two he could have judged the run and jump of the oncoming player and given himself a run to attack it. As it was he was caught flat footed and unaware of the strikers positioning. If he wasn't going to win the header there should have been atleast some attempt to put Lambert off, (G Neville style as you say) but there was neither.
 
You can nitpick his positioning on that all you want but if as SAF said we worked on strikers pulling off onto the full-backs you have to look at the CB's and wonder why they didn't take more command in marking Lambert rigorously. I do think Rafael has regressed slightly positionally, he does far too much running around, more than I even remember him doing before. I put it down to youth though, he won't peak for another 4 years or so and is offensively at a very good level, more time next to Vidic and Rio will really help. Rafael for me must have also suffered from the defensive chopping and changing we've had over the last 3 years.
 
Watch ferdinand in that video. If he doesnt drop way behind the rest of the defenders then Lambert is offside and we have no problems. Its only because he played him onside that Rafael isnt in the best position to defend but even if he was, he wouldnt have won the ball against Lambert.
 
2 inches taller than Roberto Carlos, same height as Denis Irwin.
 
Did PS actually call Rafael slow, or was he just mentioning that it was a weakness in a defender?
 
Orton said:
Marcelo, Lahm, Cole and Evra are all midgets.
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The first two are classic wannabe wingers and shite defenders. Evra after a period of being defensively sound seems to have regressed to being what he was when he arrived from Monaco. Cole makes up for his lack of inches with aggression and defensive nous.
 
Lahm isn't a shit defender at all Pete, Marcelo is though.
 
peterstorey said:
The first two are classic wannabe wingers and shite defenders. Evra after a period of being defensively sound seems to have regressed to being what he was when he arrived from Monaco. Cole makes up for his lack of inches with aggression and defensive nous.
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..... and Carlos and Irwin?
 
Carlos is perhaps the most overrated player in the history of the game. The only way Irwin is two inches shorter than Rafael is possibly in the shower.
 
Hmmm, well it's not.


How about Fabio Cannavora? He's only an inch taller than Rafael, lack of height almost ruined his career right?
 
For a full back height is not really an issue. You should have center backs marking strikers. As pointed out above, it was just a well executed move by Southampton.
 
When you have an agenda against a player, you can make any situation out as though it is that players fault. Any reasonably objective person clearly see that Rafael did very little wrong for the first goal and had a pretty darned good game overall.

Friend texted "What the feck?" soon as the goal happened and my first reaction was "Good goal" - it remains that. Yes, we lost the ball at midfield through Cleverley/Kagawa, yes Evra didn't get to close the cross off and yes Rio just about played Lambert onside and yes Rafael got beat but, overall it was just a well played Southamptom.

But, if blame must be laid at someone's feet from United then Rafael to me is the last one of the list that should get it.
 
Look, if you have midget fullbacks it will be targeted. Viv Anderson is the best ever right fullback in the top division, he could attack like a winger, tackle like a rightback and defend like a CB.
 
One of the reasons that Phil Jones was used there a lot last season, I'm sure. Good mix of pace, skill, energy, aerial ability and defensive ability.

On paper. But never totally worked imo.
 
I always think it's a risk having two short fullbacks playing together. If one of the fullbacks has some height, then the centre-backs are more able to cover for the short-arse.

That season when we played Evra and Brown on the left and right seemed the most balanced to me.
 
Yeah, Brown wasn't a natural fullback by any stretch of the imagination but he could defend, make a third CB when required and, feck me, turn up in the final third to draw defenders and make space.
 
KGBhoy said:
For a full back height is not really an issue. You should have center backs marking strikers. As pointed out above, it was just a well executed move by Southampton.
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Nope. You have a centre back moving to full back and you start creating stupid gaps in the box, it's suicidal and difficult to orchestrate and organise. The best thing to do is make sure the cross doesn't come in, and if it does, ensure it's not pin-point accurate.

Watch where the cross comes in from. Puncheon was given so much space by Evra. As soon as the ball gets out to him, Evra's got to close him down, he just sauntered about. Any top level professional footballer should be able to hit Lambert from that distance with that much room.
peterstorey said:
Look, if you have midget fullbacks it will be targeted. Viv Anderson is the best ever right fullback in the top division, he could attack like a winger, tackle like a rightback and defend like a CB.
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You keep saying things like this as if there's an alternative. Who else is available then that we should have at RB?
 
Liam147 said:
You keep saying things like this as if there's an alternative. Who else is available then that we should have at RB?
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Well Ferguson thinks it's better to play Jones or Smalling if they're fit. Who am I to argue?
 
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