Rafa Benitez | Sacked (Fachts)

[RedRover]

Great move for Newcastle. I imagine it's taken some of the edge off relegation for their fans.

Benitez will know the Spanish market inside-out and there are some great bargains there. Newcastle will easily be able to outmuscle the majority of clubs in La Liga, relegated or not, and if they can get three or four bargains (even if they're only one-two season wonders, like Michu) they'll come back up straightaway and fare better in the PL next time.

How useful are Spanish players in a league like the Championship?

It's a tough league. Being a talented squad isn't enough, you need championship hardened players who can take the physicality, as well as a big squad capable of playing twice a week. It's no coincidence that clubs who do well usually have managers with experience and squads full of hungry, largely British players.

He needs to clear the decks of a few of the players who thought they were too good and get in some players with experience at the level.

And his transfer record for Liverpool in his latter years was patchy at best. Lots wasted on young players who did nothing. He'd do well to get someone in who knows the league to assist identifying players as well.

 

[IBleedRed]

We could meat them in the cups.

Are we trading fat puns?
If so, gout me in!

 

[RU Devil]

Good news for the True Geordie, especially if Rafa gets real decision making powers when it comes to transfers. The previous regime screwed the pooch and left the 2015-16 with not much of a chance. Gotta figure they'll be back up right away, otherwise Rafa will probably be jettisoned.

Respect to Rafa for sticking it out. No guarantee that Newcastle will get all the right bounces next season and if they don't get back right away (let alone win the Championship), his star will be dimmed.

 

[JohnnyKills]

How useful are Spanish players in a league like the Championship?

It's a tough league. Being a talented squad isn't enough, you need championship hardened players who can take the physicality, as well as a big squad capable of playing twice a week. It's no coincidence that clubs who do well usually have managers with experience and squads full of hungry, largely British players.

He needs to clear the decks of a few of the players who thought they were too good and get in some players with experience at the level.

And his transfer record for Liverpool in his latter years was patchy at best. Lots wasted on young players who did nothing. He'd do well to get someone in who knows the league to assist identifying players as well.

Yeah but he also brought in players like Torres, Alonso and Reina who were great for Liverpool.

Agree that he needs a number two familiar with the championship though.

 

[DOTA]

Pleased he's decided to stay. It's more interesting, as a neutral, to see what he can do trying to build Newcastle up again than it is seeing him constantly doing short term gigs.

 

[saivet]

Crazy really. Potentially in the same season he has managed a team that wins the CL and also a team that got relegated to the Championship.

 

[Globule]

Credit to him for sticking with them. I can see him being enough of a lure for some of their better players to stay too. They'll be back in the Prem next season.

 

[Red Stone]

Found his level.

 

[Cassady]

If he is given the control he wants then it is the perfect club for Rafa. Apart from his eccentricities he always seemed a good man. Good luck to him.

He gave 96,000 to the HJC.

People have said he could have give more. BUT.... He didn't have to do it.

Great man. But he deffo took us to our limit and went a bit crackers after this. Them Yanks were bellends though and wanted a yes man in.

 

[RedRover]

Yeah but he also brought in players like Torres, Alonso and Reina who were great for Liverpool.

Agree that he needs a number two familiar with the championship though.

He bought some great players for Liverpool, although to be fair they were hardly unknowns. He got a bit dodgy as time went on though.

He needs to identify the players who were taking the piss and weed them out, although I suspect most of them will be looking for a move anyway. A few steady, experienced players and a couple of loan recruits looking to make a name for themselves and they should do well.

 

[Ishdalar]

How useful are Spanish players in a league like the Championship?

It's a tough league. Being a talented squad isn't enough, you need championship hardened players who can take the physicality, as well as a big squad capable of playing twice a week. It's no coincidence that clubs who do well usually have managers with experience and squads full of hungry, largely British players.

He needs to clear the decks of a few of the players who thought they were too good and get in some players with experience at the level.

And his transfer record for Liverpool in his latter years was patchy at best. Lots wasted on young players who did nothing. He'd do well to get someone in who knows the league to assist identifying players as well.

Just because we're famous for our technical and weak players it doesn't mean we don't have strong, physical football. You should take a look at the 2ª/2ªB to see just how physical we can get over here.

Now that Spanish players have proven they can deliver in the Premier League is only logical to start questioning them with the Championship, where even guys with an apparent lack of heart like Jota Peleteiro have been quite good for their teams. IMHO the main problem a Championship team faces when signing a Spanish player is motivating him to stay and give his 100%, Spanish players have it rough here with teams failing to pay wages or giving low ones, they've seen a lot of guys go to England, earn a big check and come back a few monts later on a loan. I expect a lot of talent from small 1st division teams and even big 2nd division trying to do that, you have to be aware of this thing if you manage a Championship team

 

[DannyCAFC]

Surprised but fair play to him, he obviously felt the love from the fans and decided that was important enough to stay even though he undoubtedly could have got better offers from elsewhere.

They should smash the Championship next year so long as they reinvest some of the money they make from sales in their defence which is ropey to say the least although improved under Rafa. My mate told me Mitrovic and Perez have committed to staying? Not sure if that's true but if so that's a helluva strike partnership for that league (for the 30 games Mitrovic isn't suspended for anyway).

After that, I guess it's a chance for Benitez to really mould a club which he hasn't really had in recent times, basically just been drafted in for the short-term here and there to do a job rather than actual take on a project and build something for himself.

 

[Skills]

He gave 96,000 to the HJC.

People have said he could have give more. BUT.... He didn't have to do it.

Great man. But he deffo took us to our limit and went a bit crackers after this. Them Yanks were bellends though and wanted a yes man in.

All owners do. They only put up with the volatile characters while they're winning and he was trophyless for 4 seasons when they sacked him.

 

[red_devil83]

Probably won't be a popular opinion but fair play to Benitez for staying at Newcastle be interesting to see how such a decorated manager performs in a lower league.

 

[Cassady]

All owners do. They only put up with the volatile characters while they're winning and he was trophyless for 4 seasons when they sacked him.

It's the sinister stab in the back they went about it.

 

[lem8sh]

Found his level.

Quite simply, bullshit.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

If he is given the control he wants then it is the perfect club for Rafa. Apart from his eccentricities he always seemed a good man. Good luck to him.

Agree with this. He's a top man alright, hope he turns his career around.

 

[RedRover]

Just because we're famous for our technical and weak players it doesn't mean we don't have strong, physical football. You should take a look at the 2ª/2ªB to see just how physical we can get over here.

Now that Spanish players have proven they can deliver in the Premier League is only logical to start questioning them with the Championship, where even guys with an apparent lack of heart like Jota Peleteiro have been quite good for their teams. IMHO the main problem a Championship team faces when signing a Spanish player is motivating him to stay and give his 100%, Spanish players have it rough here with teams failing to pay wages or giving low ones, they've seen a lot of guys go to England, earn a big check and come back a few monts later on a loan. I expect a lot of talent from small 1st division teams and even big 2nd division trying to do that, you have to be aware of this thing if you manage a Championship team

My point, being a regular watcher of the Championship (and lower league football) is that it's a very difficult league to get out of as it's better than people think. The teams are largely similar, most sides can beat most others and given how quickly the games come the level of intensity is a major factor.

There's a reason why clubs go down and often don't go back up - some fall even further. Those that survive and go back up are often teams that had mainly championship players the year before and only lasted a season in the PL.

I don't know what Spanish lower tier football is like. I suspect it hasn't got the intensity of the Championship where players, and clubs have a chance to change their futures completely with one good year. I may be wrong.

It's not about being physical in terms of being kicked it kicking others but the pace of the games, twice a week with few easy games and cup runs to think of as well.

The clubs that traditionally do well buy good Championship players for the most part, or at least lower level, PL grafters who know what they're doing. That's a fact. If I were Rafa I wouldn't be reinventing the wheel.

 

[stu_1992]

Well I'm happy with this, always nice to see Benitez in the Championship. Quite the turnaround.

 

[Cassady]

And Skills.

By the way the met in secret talks with Klinsmann in January 2008 so it wasn't four years without a trophy. It was 18 months and 7 months after Athens. Since Rafa came we finished 5th , 3rd , 3rd , 4th , 2nd and 7th. The season we came 4th ( no pun intended ) was when they spoke to Klinsmann. We got to another European Cup semi that season to which is hardly the signs of a manager on the wane. The next season we came second.

They were complete twats and we found them out and sent them packing.

 

[prarek]

Moyes should sign with Aston Villa so they can renew their Merseyside rivalry in the championship.

 

[Lurpak99]

Probably won't be a popular opinion but fair play to Benitez for staying at Newcastle be interesting to see how such a decorated manager performs in a lower league.

Di Matteo is favourite for the Villa job, so there could be two CL and FA Cup winning managers working in the Championship next season.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

I respect him for taking it as it shows he still has faith in his abilities and he still has a burning passion for the game. Aside for the tribal piss take when he was at Liverpool, I like the man. He tries to make his teams play good football and is very knowledgeable. We were very lucky that the politics at Liverpool cost him his job as he was building an a amazing team at there. It was very unfair on him on how it ended. I wish him good luck.

I'm not sure if this is a pisstake or not.

His Liverpool team play shit defensive football rescued by a top attacking midfielder and arguably the best striker in the world during 07-09.

And the team he left them at the end was a joke. Their most successful transfers in recent years were signed by Queen Kenny. He bought them a lot of duds, Barry for Alonso anyone?

 

[Bojan11]

Funny how it's confirmed once the Valencia job is gone.

 

[Nighteyes]

For someone who's notorious for wanting complete control, he doesn't half chose terrible managers to manage under. I suspect it's so he can turn around and whine at the owners once he's sacked/left.

In any case, this is a good chance for Benitiez to build his rep back up. He'll have the money and is managing a good sized club. No reason why they can't be at least as good as West Ham.

 

[skidmark]

I'm not sure if this is a pisstake or not.

His Liverpool team play shit defensive football rescued by a top attacking midfielder and arguably the best striker in the world during 07-09.

And the team he left them at the end was a joke. Their most successful transfers in recent years were signed by Queen Kenny. He bought them a lot of duds, Barry for Alonso anyone?

I think transfers like that were the kind of 'politics' that the op was referring to. It's pretty much certain Rafa didn't want to lose Alonso, that was forced on him by the then club owners.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

I think transfers like that were the kind of 'politics' that the op was referring to. It's pretty much certain Rafa didn't want to lose Alonso, that was forced on him by the then club owners.

Nope. It's well known he wanted Barry over Alonso. The Yanks sold the latter but didn't get him the former.

He got 4 transfers right, Alonso, Kuyt, Torres and Mascherano. The rest are duds.

 

[skidmark]

Nope. It's well known he wanted Barry over Alonso. The Yanks sold the latter but didn't get him the former.

He got 4 transfers right, Alonso, Kuyt, Torres and Mascherano. The rest are duds.

I'd always thought he was forced into that. I stand corrected - a very weird decision

 

[Finn MacCool]

His Liverpool team play shit defensive football rescued by a top attacking midfielder and arguably the best striker in the world during 07-09.

And the team he left them at the end was a joke. Their most successful transfers in recent years were signed by Queen Kenny. He bought them a lot of duds, Barry for Alonso anyone?

Much like Mourinho, Rafa prefers a solid compact setup vs an expansive one. In the same way that most good teams have their jewel/s in the crown so did his best LFC team have Gerrard and Torres - but it was made up of much more than just that duo. As evidenced by the fact that those two were still there when we finished 7th in his last season. During 08/09 when he finally had put together a strong team in all departments we put 4 past Real, Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal (altho we conceded 4 against Chelsea and Arsenal!) - so the myth that it was always defensive football is just that - a myth.

Any analysis of Rafa's last season at LFC must include the backdrop under which he was working - a club at civil war, with owners who took us to the brink of administration. In his last season he had no money to spend - he had to sell to buy (net spend minus £8m).

During his time he did sign a few duds (what manager doesn't), but they were mainly cheap ones. When he spent "big" he mostly got it right (Keane and Aquilani aside). He bought players like Alonso, Mascherano, Kuyt, Torres, Agger, Reina and Sterling and even some of the lesser ones turned out very good for a while - Sissoko, Crouch, Benayoun, Aurelio etc were all worth the small sums he paid.

Alonso, Torres and Sterling cost the club £38m and were sold for a total of £115m - of course ideally you don't want to see your best players, but it shows that his dealings in the transfer market in monetary terms were quite good. By contrast Dalglish's poor signings were to some extent masked by Suarez - both in terms of performance and money recouped. Henderson and Bellamy were his only other two decent signings.

Alonso's performances in his first 2 seasons were fantastic. But his next two 06/07 & 07/08 were very patchy. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and he has gone on to show that those seasons were merely blips but Benitez is no fool - he would not have considered selling him unless he genuinely thought it was for the better of the team at the time.

Any manager that wins the CL, FA Cup, pushes a Utd team containing Ronaldo close for the league, makes another CL final and takes his club to No.1 in the UEFA rankings is doing something right. Yes, he ultimately fell short in the league and it unravelled in his last season, but for 5 seasons we had a very competitive team and had so many high points.

I think he is taking a massive risk by staying with Newcastle, but should be applauded for it. What manager of his stature would do that? He obviously believes in the club and the fact his family is still in England makes a big difference. I wish him all the best and hopefully he can get them back up at the first attempt - he will be another top class manager in the prem and it will be a better league with him in it.

 

[Parry Gallister]

Any manager that wins the CL, FA Cup, pushes a Utd team containing Ronaldo close for the league, makes another CL final and takes his club to No.1 in the UEFA rankings is doing something right. Yes, he ultimately fell short in the league and it unravelled in his last season, but for 5 seasons we had a very competitive team and had so many high points.

I think he is taking a massive risk by staying with Newcastle, but should be applauded for it. What manager of his stature would do that? He obviously believes in the club and the fact his family is still in England makes a big difference. I wish him all the best and hopefully he can get them back up at the first attempt - he will be another top class manager in the prem and it will be a better league with him in it.

Yeah, was astounded he stayed, fair play to him - he may have even been able to go back to Valencia but stayed in the second division. I'd personally be fine with the geordies sticking around the championship awhile mind.

 

[Finn MacCool]

Yeah, was astounded he stayed, fair play to him - he may have even been able to go back to Valencia but stayed in the second division. I'd personally be fine with the geordies sticking around the championship awhile mind.

I don't mind the Geordies tbh - they're characters (the fans) and they add to the premiership. No other team has quite so many fat, grown up, bare chested guys in the middle of winter.

I would prefer them in the top flight as opposed to the likes Watford, Bournemouth etc.

 

[JohnnyKills]

I don't mind the Geordies tbh - they're characters (the fans) and they add to the premiership. No other team has quite so many fat, grown up, bare chested guys in the middle of winter.

I would prefer them in the top flight as opposed to the likes Watford, Bournemouth etc.

I find their fans a bit annoying tbh. The whole 'Toon Army' thing was spun out by Sky's marketing machine in the mid-90s, when Newcastle first got promoted to the PL, and the fans have taken the idea and run with it. Half the time it seems they're playing to the media gallery when they turn up at matches shirtless, cry after matches etc.

Some good, knowledgeable fans in amongst them of course - as there are with every club. And getting 50,000 people turning up every week means you're a big club, no two ways about it.

 

[Finn MacCool]

I find their fans a bit annoying tbh. The whole 'Toon Army' thing was spun out by Sky's marketing machine in the mid-90s, when Newcastle first got promoted to the PL, and the fans have taken the idea and run with it. Half the time it seems they're playing to the media gallery when they turn up at matches shirtless, cry after matches etc.

Some good, knowledgeable fans in amongst them of course - as there are with every club. And getting 50,000 people turning up every week means you're a big club, no two ways about it.

Yeah thats true - Sky have a lot to answer for in the way they market stuff sometimes.

They're def quite a demanding fanbase - maybe because they have been starved of success for so long.

Speaking of Sky and the Geordies - this is hilarious

 

[Nighteyes]

I think he is taking a massive risk by staying with Newcastle, but should be applauded for it. What manager of his stature would do that? He obviously believes in the club and the fact his family is still in England makes a big difference. I wish him all the best and hopefully he can get them back up at the first attempt - he will be another top class manager in the prem and it will be a better league with him in it.

What stature? His stock has gone down considerably over the years. Sacked at Inter, ok at Chelsea, average at Napoli, sacked at Madrid and now relegated at Newcastle.

Applauded? He's only at Newcastle because he couldn't get a better gig elsewhere. Hilarious to see Liverpool fans turning this into another Saint Rafa story.

 

[Finn MacCool]

What stature? His stock has gone down considerably over the years. Sacked at Inter, ok at Chelsea, average at Napoli, sacked at Madrid and now relegated at Newcastle.

Applauded? He's only at Newcastle because he couldn't get a better gig elsewhere. Hilarious to see Liverpool fans turning this into another Saint Rafa story.

You don't think he has a good stature as a manager? Yes, his best achievements were quite a few years ago. But I still think he could command a much better job than Newcastle if he wanted (considering that literally almost any job in the top flight of the big leagues would be considered better). Wenger's best achievements were quite a few years ago - would you say the same about him if he dropped down to the the championship? In terms of trophies his record more than stands up to someone like Wenger.

Using his sacking at Madrid as a measurement of his current standing isn't valid - Madrid sack managers who win titles etc. Ok at Chelsea? He came in mid season, worked in a very hostile environment and still won a trophy and got CL qualification - I would say that is better than ok. You can also hardly use relegation at Newcastle as a stick to beat him with - he was only there for 10 games. Yes he failed at Inter - Mourinho was a very tough act to follow. There aren't many mangers out there who have managed as many high profile teams as Benitez who can say every single one was a success.

Many Liverpool fans still have good memories of him and his time at Anfield. That doesn't mean he is perfect, or a "Saint" etc. But until you can show me another manager with his CV who has dropped into the championship I still think he should be applauded, for the loyalty he is showing and risk he is taking.

 

[lem8sh]

You don't think he has a good stature as a manager? Yes, his best achievements were quite a few years ago. But I still think he could command a much better job than Newcastle if he wanted (considering that literally almost any job in the top flight of the big leagues would be considered better). Wenger's best achievements were quite a few years ago - would you say the same about him if he dropped down to the the championship? In terms of trophies his record more than stands up to someone like Wenger.

Using his sacking at Madrid as a measurement of his current standing isn't valid - Madrid sack managers who win titles etc. Ok at Chelsea? He came in mid season, worked in a very hostile environment and still won a trophy and got CL qualification - I would say that is better than ok. You can also hardly use relegation at Newcastle as a stick to beat him with - he was only there for 10 games. Yes he failed at Inter - Mourinho was a very tough act to follow. There aren't many mangers out there who have managed as many high profile teams as Benitez who can say every single one was a success.

Many Liverpool fans still have good memories of him and his time at Anfield. That doesn't mean he is perfect, or a "Saint" etc. But until you can show me another manager with his CV who has dropped into the championship I still think he should be applauded, for the loyalty he is showing and risk he is taking.

Spot on.

 

[Nighteyes]

You don't think he has a good stature as a manager? Yes, his best achievements were quite a few years ago. But I still think he could command a much better job than Newcastle if he wanted (considering that literally almost any job in the top flight of the big leagues would be considered better). Wenger's best achievements were quite a few years ago - would you say the same about him if he dropped down to the the championship? In terms of trophies his record more than stands up to someone like Wenger.

Using his sacking at Madrid as a measurement of his current standing isn't valid - Madrid sack managers who win titles etc. Ok at Chelsea? He came in mid season, worked in a very hostile environment and still won a trophy and got CL qualification - I would say that is better than ok. You can also hardly use relegation at Newcastle as a stick to beat him with - he was only there for 10 games. Yes he failed at Inter - Mourinho was a very tough act to follow. There aren't many mangers out there who have managed as many high profile teams as Benitez who can say every single one was a success.

Many Liverpool fans still have good memories of him and his time at Anfield. That doesn't mean he is perfect, or a "Saint" etc. But until you can show me another manager with his CV who has dropped into the championship I still think he should be applauded, for the loyalty he is showing and risk he is taking.

He had a good stature as a manager some time back. These days he's more of a joke than anything else. Wenger is often at the end of ridicule these days almost everywhere so there's your answer to that.

He knew what was in store when he joined Madrid. No sympathies there. At Newcastle he failed to beat any of his rivals so while he wasn't the reason they went down he clearly failed at what he brought in to do.

He's getting paid a feckload more than he would anywhere else in the 1st division of Spain. Plus his family is here. Making him out like he's some kind of noble man who's sacrificing a lot is ridiculous.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

I'd always thought he was forced into that. I stand corrected - a very weird decision

I wouldn't defend his choice to get Barry, but trying to sell Xabi Alonso the summer before he left is looked on with hindsight here. It's worth noting he'd had possibly his worst season for Liverpool at the time (he had a few disappointing ones) and teams like Juve and Arsenal were turning down cut price moves for him at the time.

 

[MichaelKorleone]

As much as I love mocking Chelsea fans for their A4 sheets with 'Rafa Out', I found his stint there a little bit underwhelming even with the Europa League title. If I remember correctly, Chelsea were 3 points behind Utd in league and just knocked us out 5-4 in League Cup (ugh, Michael Keane conceding a penalty to Hazard in injury time with us leading 3-2). By the time we won the league, they were 25 points behind, eventually finishing 17 points away from us in 3rd place. Even if we consider that they gave up the league in search for European title, that's still a big gap. FWIW, we rode completely on De Gea, Rafael, Carrick and RvP entire season (except that 10-game barren run for RvP which saw Rooney score 8 goals or something, Evra and Vidic scoring from set pieces, etc). Everyone knows how bad he was at Inter (still won Club World Cup) but he was a bit poor at Napoli as well. Didn't get close to any title (won a Coppa Italia though?), lost to Dnipro of all teams when I had them as favorites for trophy.

For all the plaudits he gets for 08-09 season, Liverpool were slightly lucky their opponents received red cards in roughly one-third (11 out of 38?) of their matches (couple of them like Lampard at Chelsea or Valencia at Wigan were rescinded too). He was still the manager when they couldn't get out of their CL groups in 09-10 season and finished 7th in league. Diego made the Scousers cry, again, in EL semis.

Obviously I'm not bitter about him winning Europa League in Amsterdam or screwing my bet for EL semis in 2015 or winning CL with Liverpool

 

[Finn MacCool]

He had a good stature as a manager some time back. These days he's more of a joke than anything else. Wenger is often at the end of ridicule these days almost everywhere so there's your answer to that.

He knew what was in store when he joined Madrid. No sympathies there. At Newcastle he failed to beat any of his rivals so while he wasn't the reason they went down he clearly failed at what he brought in to do.

He's getting paid a feckload more than he would anywhere else in the 1st division of Spain. Plus his family is here. Making him out like he's some kind of noble man who's sacrificing a lot is ridiculous.

Banter and rival fans tribalism apart I doubt you will find many football fans in the world who consider Rafa a joke or Wenger ridiculous. Sure there are some Arsenal fans who want a change but I doubt many of them are ridiculing him.

I'm not sure how knowing Madrid are a sacking club is relevant - its not about sympathy. Its about understanding why events happen. As for Newcastle he was brought in too late. His overall record there was a massive improvement on what went before - the same record over a season would have seen Newcastle finish 11th. Any manager going in there at that time would have found it difficult. His results against Sunderland and Norwich were poor, but both were very early in his short tenure and must be balanced by the fact that he got draws against Liverpool and City and a win against Spurs (albeit after their fate was sealed). Its obvious to anyone that had he been brought in earlier it would be Sunderland who went down.

I can't picture him looking down the back of the sofa for 50p for the meter so I doubt money is a consideration - if it was I'm sure he could have held out for something even more lucrative. His family undoubtedly is a huge factor, but it cannot be the only one otherwise he would not have had the original release clause inserted.

Obviously opinions are clouded by team allegiances - thats understandable. But there is no doubting the fact that the football world as a whole thinks that it is a massive coup for Newcastle to retain Rafa in the championship - that is good enough for me to show that he is still a manger of high stature.