It's really not. The standards for what you spend your own money on (Hello Kitty earrings and blow up Kate Middleton sex dolls in your case perhaps) versus what you expect your tax money to be spent on are really not the same at all.
Queen Elizabeth II | 1926-2022 | Rest in Peace
- Thread starter horsechoker
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It's really not. The standards for what you spend your own money on (Hello Kitty earrings and blow up Kate Middleton sex dolls in your case perhaps) versus what you expect your tax money to be spent on are really not the same at all.
Monarchy-io vs Anti Royalty-io?
Why are people so offended by people who dislike the monarchy watching the funeral ?
without doubt it’s a big event. I didn’t watch it myself, only what I caught on the news in the evening.
but you can watch the funeral and appreciate the pageantry etc and still think the Monarchy is a load of nonsense.
without doubt it’s a big event. I didn’t watch it myself, only what I caught on the news in the evening.
but you can watch the funeral and appreciate the pageantry etc and still think the Monarchy is a load of nonsense.
Fair enough. You got your covid whataboutism in a thread for a funeral anyway, so that must be satisfying.
The footballing eco-system has a much more positive impact on the UK's economy than the Royals ever will. During the 19/20 season (peak Covid and a 'fallow' year by all metrics), the Premier League still had a contribution of close to £8bn to the economy (much of this coming from player wages tax...something that the Royal Family don't pay).
The other things you need to consider is that the oft repeated mantra 'but but the Royal Family bring so much in for toruism!' is more myth than fact. Most estimates put the tourism generated by the Royal Family at around the ~£50m mark:
Whereas the overall cost to 'keep' or 'prop up' the Royal Family comes in around double that amount:
These are eye-watering sums...to essentially sustain a family that provide very little return, and have little to no power. Why not abolish the monarchy, and pay them a civil servants salary if they need to cut a ribbon somewhere? I mean going by yours and other posters comments, that seems to be the main thing that they do.
Now the other thing to mention is that most of the revenues generated by the Royal Family tend to come from admission to various sites. If we were to abolish the Royal Family and make these sites museums or historical places of importance with certain protections, this wouldn't necessarily reduce the income in tourism. People still would come to visit Buckingham Palace, Windsor Castle and so on. Off the top of my head, the Royal Family own almost £14bn worth of real estate all divvied up in wider members of the family, which is ridiculous.
And people would vote to keep them as they are tomorrow if asked. Must be very frustrating for you.
The reason they don't abolish the monarchy is that they have a symbiotic relationship with the government and bureaucracy of the state. They give each other legitimacy. The government is full of anachronistic ceremonies and silly costumes harking back to centuries past. The judiciary has people in 17th century wigs presiding over 21st century trials. The money has the Queen's head on it. Royal Mint, Royal Mail, Royal Societies, etc. You take away the monarchy then you are on the way to challenging the old boy network that runs every strata of British society.
I feel like pointless whataboutism would be more something like asking whether people should spend their money on going to the football in a thread about a royal event, rather than questioning where one's tax money and government effort goes, but maybe that's just me.
«But but tourism»
Are there any credible calculations in relation to how much income the Royals account for? I refuse to believe they pull enough tourism to justify their existence.
I don't get it. Royalists aren't happy enough with the country going on pause for 12 days, 200 trillion people watching the funeral, thousands of cosplayers parading and the largest city in Europe shutting down for them. Nah they have to kick any dissenters too 
.
.I think certain people literally just count whoever comes into the country as here only to see the Royals. Like someone visiting their son/daughter who's in England studying...what they're really here for is to see the royal family. We all know it«But but tourism»
Are there any credible calculations in relation to how much income the Royals account for? I refuse to believe they pull enough tourism to justify their existence.
Yeah, I think it's pretty normal to witness completely unnecessary lavishness and spending in the face of widespread poverty and other life threatening issues existing in the UK, and be very frustrated. Far more normal than thinking it's great to have a family of leeches rule over you.
I don't think that's what people are 'getting offended' by to be honest.
It's the slightly strange spectacle of people hating the entire thing and making themselves even angrier by watching it. And then coming on here to complain about how ridiculous the funeral or procession to see her coffin is etc.
I watched none of the funeral. I watched none of that ridiculous queue, interviews with gormless crying members of the public, documentaries about how 'Lizzie' was so lovely and down to earth and funny. I didn't read about the procession or any news about it, other than the first day. In fact, I have barely engaged with it but have continued to live a pretty normal life regardless.
Because it wouldn't enrich me in any way and would most likely only cause me annoyance.
So the question then becomes, if someone hates it so much, why engage in it and watch it? It's pointless.
This is totally separate from having discussions about the monarchy as an institution or our country's over the top reaction as a whole over the past week.
I think certain people literally just count whoever comes into the country as here only to see the Royals. Like someone visiting their son/daughter who's in England studying...what they're really here for is to see the royal family. We all know it
The tourism thing is absolute nonsense, considering the Palace of Versailles gets more tourist traffic than any Royal residence. It’s not like we’d knock down all the buildings.
I refuse to visit Buckingham Palace now that I know the queen won't be upstairs when I'm there.
Wow, great reply, really nice rebuttal.
But anyway, even that (keeping them), seems to be changing with older folks showing support for the monarchy with younger folks showing support for an elected head of state.
It's similar to Brexit, climate change and other antiquated ideals that are held by the older generation.
I think certain people literally just count whoever comes into the country as here only to see the Royals. Like someone visiting their son/daughter who's in England studying...what they're really here for is to see the royal family. We all know it
They sometimes specify a bit more, like visitors to Buckingham Palace and stuff. But Versailles get 10 million visitors per year, and the forward thinking French got their guillotines out over 200 years ago.
I don't think it's too strange for anti-monarchists to experience what they dislike and hate and then share that opinion, particularly if their taxes in some small manner are paying for it. It would be a bit strange if you had no idea what a thing was just because you held an opinion against a thing. Don't you think?
was literally just about to post this. The tourism thing is almost a moot point. People aren’t coming to the UK to see the individuals, they are coming to see Buckingham Palace, Windsor Castle the Tower of London etc….
All of which would remain it the Royals were booted.
Yep probably one of the silliest tropes that persevere about them. The number of people who come to London to specifically visit because of them must be miniscule.
Not particularly. It's not like there's going to be anything new there. I'm also an anti monarchist. Nothing I see at her funeral is going to change my opinion either way. I'm still going to think they're a ridiculous relic who should be done away with and who are a massive waste of tax money. I'm still going to think that the pomp and circumstance looks silly in the modern era. There's not going to be anything new there.
So why make myself annoyed by watching it? It doesn't make any sense in my mind. Do something enjoyable with your friends or family instead.
How many people visit Paris to see the Eiffel Tower though and just happen to see the sights as well.
I did likewise-ignored it for the most part-, but on the highlighted point, I think it's because it is so irrational and so contradictory to acknowledged or unacknowledged modern liberal values of supposed equality and fairness that you can't but think 'really, in this day and age you need an obscenely wealthy old family to be proud of your country? You have nothing else at all?'. I think the point is, it's so absurd that you can't help but question the mentality. I guess to each their own but i'd be lying if I said the sycophancy doesn't unsettle me a bit no matter how much i try and laugh it off.
But that's a specific building that you acctually can see. Nobody comes to London and actually sees the Queen or Charles etc. They see Buckingham Palace, the tower of London etc. All of which remains even if the Royal family were to disappear tomorrow.
Imagine how many people would come to see a newly established Museum of Abolished Monarchy.
yeah but would people be as interested in those buildings without the story that the royal family are actively living there? like, i enjoy watching a porno as much as the next person, what i’m not interested in however is a video of a bedroom or a leaky tap and a man pointing and going “people used to have sex here, but they’re not right now.”
I'm anti as well but I was still interested to see what happened, the support from common-folk like myself and the opportunity to shout at the screen and criticise. I spent a lot of time looking for my work people in the crowds but to understand overall a thing you hate you need to educate yourself too. I'm not saying you have to, or even watch the whole thing but you can laugh at something like yesterday without hating people with different opinions. We can't demand to be heard if we're completely ignorant on the topic.
Was just writing something along these lines.
The monarchy is a bulwark of inequality behind which the array of outmoded and un-egalitarian institutions which run the country shelter. If it fell, basically every other shitty thing we refuse to reform "because it's traditional" would follow soon after.
The establishment are united in an obsession with buoying up the monarchy because their continued power is contingent on British people fundamentally accepting inequality and deference to "our betters" as part of the natural order of things.
Would be an odd place to go to avoid unelected leaders.
This is probably the best post in the entirety of this thread.
Because murderous families and their ilk don't deserve pomp, they deserve comeuppance.
I guess its kind of like why on occasion I watch Liverpool games.....in the absolute hope that they get completely decimated.
Yeah I get that. The difference is that when Liverpool (or in my case Arsenal or Chelsea) then race to 3-0 within 25 minutes, I don't carry on watching because it does nothing for me. And along the same lines, I don't tend to watch their games if they're playing Fulham at home because the likelihood of the situation is that they're going to win and I'm not going to get anything positive from those 2 hours of my life. I can think of many many better ways to spend those 2 hours. Tottenham already give me enough grief!
Not to mention that there's no chance that the royal family are getting decimated on Elizabeth's funeral day.
OK. And how does watching the funeral and then complaining about it on redcafe bring that about?
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You're obviously not permanently angry. Get with the times man.
What topic hasn’t been complained about on Redcafe?
But we're not talking about people laughing at it (which is totally fine) though. Why someone would choose to watch something that pisses them off, then go onto a thread that pisses them off to piss themselves off even more?
I also don't think I or most Republicans are ignorant on the topic. Without watching, I know it will have been incredibly formal. I know it will have been very regimented, involving a lot of arcane ceremonies, probably a lot of people in funny uniforms. 'Symbols of power' will have been involved somewhere. There will have been processions, members of the armed forces, the 'top levels' of British society and many members of state fro around the world. Speeches given by members of her clergy and her family. Am I on the right path?
The topic at hand, if we're talking about removal of the monarchy, isn't related to a single day and a funeral. Its related to the facts regarding the benefits they receive, the tax income they get, the exemptions they receive, the ridiculousness of an unelected head of state. Those are the pertinent facts of the debate for me, not the funeral.
If people want to campaign for a Republic, I'm in. I'll sign, I'll vote. Perhaps even protest, though there are causes I care about more if I'm honest. But if people want to just wallow in annoyance and anger, by watching something they have no short term influence over just so they can continue to be annoyed on an internet forum, that doesn't make sense to me. Do something more productive with your time. Let's not pretend that some/ most of the people are watching it because they're researching for upcoming campaigns for republicanism.
I've never understood this angle. Voicing dissent is a very important part of change. Very little real change is not based on the grumblings of sections of society.