Gaming PS5 vs Xbox Series S|X

[b82REZ]

Gamepass has shown to be fantastic for many indies who have gone on to have more sales as a result (on Xbox and elsewhere).

I'd be curious to get proper stats on Switch portability, and how many use it on the go (not just handheld around the house) and how much of the time. Personally, I never do, but I appreciate some will only play on the go.

As xcloud scales and becomes more accessible (EE offering unlimited data for xcloud streaming for example) then the portability and accessibility benefit comes too. Though that's a long time away yet.

For any co-op that is online, Gamepass is the best place - and that includes most local co-op games that get their scale of sales from online co-op - not local. If it's pure local, sure.

That's exactly why I specified local coop. I have no interest in online gaming out of the odd game of Rocket League. Considering your main selling point for Gamepass is how great it is for online multiplayer games, I'll refer you back to my original point.

I'm sure for that people that still like COD, Halo and Gears, Gamepass is an attractive proposition. For us gamers with taste and class, we look look down on those gamers like they're hyperactive toddlers.

 

[Redlambs]

Which is frustrating. I loved those titles but not a second time so soon after.

As for BOTW, it absolutely probably is my lack of imagination / creativity and patience. I only really take advantage of a sandbox setting and mess around if there's an element of co-op/online play. On my own I just don't have that sense to create my own entertainment by experimenting. The lack of direction and progression is a similar reason to why I haven't done much in Sea of Thieves. In both games I know that's a big part of the appeal to many people.

Yeah that's fair enough. With SoT, when's the last time you tried, or was it with anyone reasonably experienced? Because there's definite progression in that, a story and missions and all the works it's just not in your face from the off. It can definitely be played as a more traditional game these days, just occasionally with a few arseholes splattered around.

(I would make you laugh hard to know I'm actually a really nice guy on the seas. If I see a noob vs a ghost ship, for example, I'm helping and then giving them all the loot and tips. No, really )

 

[Alock1]

That's exactly why I specified local coop. I have no interest in online gaming out of the odd game of Rocket League. Considering your main selling point for Gamepass is how great it is for online multiplayer games, I'll refer you back to my original point.

I'm sure for that people that still like COD, Halo and Gears, Gamepass is an attractive proposition. For us gamers with taste and class, we look look down on those gamers like they're hyperactive toddlers.

Was just calling out those specific reasons you cited, it wasn't my main point.

The best thing about gamepass is that it makes a wider variety of games / gametypes much more accessible to a mainstream audience, and is the thing that means more people are putting time into games that aren't just cod/FIFA/halo etc. (That's definitely been the huge benefit for me)

People on gamepass play more games and more genres than people that aren't. Your point doesn't hold up at all.

 

[Igor Drefljak]

Was just calling out those specific reasons it wasn't my main point.

The best thing about gamepass is that it makes a wider variety of games / gametypes much more accessible to a mainstream audience, and is the thing that means more people are putting time into games that aren't just cod/FIFA/halo etc. (That's definitely been the huge benefit for me)

People on gamepass play more games and more genres than people that aren't. Your point doesn't hold up at all.

His point is he cant keep up in the online world

 

[b82REZ]

Was just calling out those specific reasons it wasn't my main point.

The best thing about gamepass is that it makes a wider variety of games / gametypes much more accessible to a mainstream audience, and is the thing that means more people are putting time into games that aren't just cod/FIFA/halo etc. (That's definitely been the huge benefit for me)

People on gamepass play more games and more genres than people that aren't. Your point doesn't hold up at all.

Anyway of backing this up, or is it completely pulled out of your arse?

 

[b82REZ]

His point is he cant keep up in the online world

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean, but I'll assume I've just been completely (screen)burned.

 

[Alock1]

Anyway of backing this up, or is it completely pulled out of your arse?

In a recent Forbes article, Microsoft's VP of Gaming Ecosystem Sarah Bond gave some insight into how the 18 million subscribers play the games of their choice. According to Bond, "Game Pass subscribers spend 20% more time playing games, play 30% more games, play 40% more genres." Bond also added that Xbox Game Pass subscribers also, "spend about 20% more on gaming overall."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant.com/xbox-game-pass-subscribers-play-more-games/amp/

 

[b82REZ]

In a recent Forbes article, Microsoft's VP of Gaming Ecosystem Sarah Bond gave some insight into how the 18 million subscribers play the games of their choice. According to Bond, "Game Pass subscribers spend 20% more time playing games, play 30% more games, play 40% more genres." Bond also added that Xbox Game Pass subscribers also, "spend about 20% more on gaming overall."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant.com/xbox-game-pass-subscribers-play-more-games/amp/

I've got some amazing snake oil to sell you.

 

[Alock1]

I've got some amazing snake oil to sell you.

Strong response mate.

 

[Bosws87]

In a recent Forbes article, Microsoft's VP of Gaming Ecosystem Sarah Bond gave some insight into how the 18 million subscribers play the games of their choice. According to Bond, "Game Pass subscribers spend 20% more time playing games, play 30% more games, play 40% more genres." Bond also added that Xbox Game Pass subscribers also, "spend about 20% more on gaming overall."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant.com/xbox-game-pass-subscribers-play-more-games/amp/

From real world data aka as my friends with series X they just play a lot more trash games from game pass oh it's "free" may as well give it a go.

 

[b82REZ]

Strong response mate.

You've posted an article with no sources other than "according to Microsoft".

You're the one making bold claims that gamers on Xbox play more games and different genres. That's simply impossible to prove, but you posted some PR piece from MS as irrefutable evidence.

So do you want to pay cash or PayPal for this snake oil? It makes games 60% more fun on Xbox.

 

[Alock1]

I think you'll find the vast majority of people who actively use gamepass are using it for nostalgic Gears/Halo purposes, or for EA pass and access to mainstream trash like Fifa and Battlefield.

That Forbes article is clearly only comparing to those with xboxs and no gamepass.

I know more PC gamers paying for gamepass who dont even use it than those who do.

Yes your anecdotal evidence is much stronger.

So what if that is the primary reason? I'm not sure if it is but what difference does it make.

The point stands.. people who have Gamepass play more games than those that don't and will experiment with more genres. It's obvious. All of a sudden they have access to a bunch of games that they would never have paid for before. It's great discovery.

The same way that most of the Playstation owners on here would say they've found and played games via PS+ that they wouldn't have otherwise. It's just on a larger scale.

If Gamepass or an equivalent was on PS5 and there was a comparison of PS5 Gamepass Vs PS5 non-gamepass it would be the same outcome.

 

[Alock1]

From real world data aka as my friends with series X they just play a lot more trash games from game pass oh it's "free" may as well give it a go.

Which will lead to trying and playing more games and some of those games/genres will stick.

 

[afrocentricity]

In a recent Forbes article, Microsoft's VP of Gaming Ecosystem Sarah Bond gave some insight into how the 18 million subscribers play the games of their choice. According to Bond, "Game Pass subscribers spend 20% more time playing games, play 30% more games, play 40% more genres." Bond also added that Xbox Game Pass subscribers also, "spend about 20% more on gaming overall."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant.com/xbox-game-pass-subscribers-play-more-games/amp/

So basically y'all spend lots of time bouncing between loads of games sampling the gamepass catalogue but never finding anything worth sticking with (because it's all shite)?

 

[Alock1]

You've posted an article with no sources other than "according to Microsoft".

You're the one making bold claims that gamers on Xbox play more games and different genres. That's simply impossible to prove, but you posted some PR piece from MS as irrefutable evidence.

So do you want to pay cash or PayPal for this snake oil? It makes games 60% more fun on Xbox.

They have the data, and the stats are completely reasonable and expected from a service that reduces the entry point and makes more games accessible.

 

[Balljy]

So basically y'all spend lots of time bouncing between loads of games sampling the gamepass catalogue but never finding anything worth sticking with (because it's all shite)?

It's not all bad. I'm currently playing Cricket 19 and Man Eater on Game Pass until I uninstall them and try some other rubbish game for a few hours.

 

[b82REZ]

They have the data, and the stats are completely reasonable and expected from a service that reduces the entry point and makes more games accessible.

But that doesn't take into account people that download for 5 mins and uninstall. That just gets chalked up to one of many meaningless statistics in that PR piece.

You're acting like Gamepass is the saviour of gaming. It's a mediocre rental service right now. The mediocre nature simply comes from MS lack of decent IP. And the flagship games are all very similar.

IF, and it's still a big IF, MS start to get some decent IP across a variety of genres in the next 3 years, Gamepass may be something worth getting wound up about. As it stands now, it is mainly old games. The offering of free games every month is not much better than PS+.

Also the issue MS have is their insistence on every device being viable for Gamepass. I already own a PC that is better than a Series X, but if I didn't why would I spend £450 if I could get a very similar experience streaming through my phone.

Eventually the price will increase and then is it still a worthwhile proposition for gamers to "try" games they wouldn't try otherwise? I had it for £1 a month for 18 months and still feel I overpaid for it.

 

[afrocentricity]

It's not all bad. I'm currently playing Cricket 19 and Man Eater on Game Pass until I uninstall them and try some other rubbish game for a few hours.

Honestly I get it... If I didn't have a backlog of (good to great) games that will probably take me half a lifetime to complete (let's be honest I'll never get through it) I'd probably find it more appealing....

 

[Alock1]

So basically y'all spend lots of time bouncing between loads of games sampling the gamepass catalogue but never finding anything worth sticking with (because it's all shite)?

You'll play games that you are thankful you never had to buy to try, and you'll put tons of hours into a game you wouldn't have otherwise played.

In the last last few months I have tons of hours on Outriders, Warhammer Vermintide, Deep Rock Galactic, Hotshot Racing, Jedi Fallen Order, The Outer Worlds and Wasteland 3. All games I wouldn't have bought (maybe JFO/TOW in a big discount sale down the line)

On the other hand I'm glad I didn't have to buy Dirt 5. I absolutely would have if I was only on PS5 / it didn't come to Gamepass and I really think it's average as feck.

 

[Balljy]

Honestly I get it... If I didn't have a backlog of (good to great) games that will probably take me half a lifetime to complete (let's be honest I'll never get through it) I'd probably find it more appealing....

I probably shouldn't have it now to be honest until some of the bigger Microsoft games come out on it. Playing on PC makes the indie thing a bit moot when there's thousands of them on Steam for a couple of quid, but the enticement of the next 5 games in the month plus some I have wanted to play for a while like Nier has kept me for now.

 

[Alock1]

On PC it is clearly less attractive if you don't also have an S/X, when you can get so many games so cheap already and you have free/cheap bundles often. Plus the quality of game on there just isn't the same.

 

[afrocentricity]

On PC it is clearly less attractive if you don't also have an S/X, when you can get so many games so cheap already and you have free/cheap bundles often. Plus the quality of game on there just isn't the same.

I'm actually on board, just not yet. When those games hit in a year or so (as long as the subs stay the same) it'll be a no brainer.

 

[Balljy]

On PC it is clearly less attractive if you don't also have an S/X, when you can get so many games so cheap already and you have free/cheap bundles often. Plus the quality of game on there just isn't the same.

I think that's the case for now, but the enticement of all future MS Xbox games is quite a big thing on PC I reckon. It's a no-brainer at that point at least for a few months.

Edit - is that different on PC to Series X? I know there's a couple missing, but also some on PC that aren't on Xbox (like Flight Sim). We get the Halo's, Forza's etc so have most of the big games plus things like Crusader Kings.

 

[afrocentricity]

Oh snap wrong thread... feck gamepass.

Spoiler

You'll play games that you are thankful you never had to buy to try, and you'll put tons of hours into a game you wouldn't have otherwise played.

In the last last few months I have tons of hours on Outriders, Warhammer Vermintide, Deep Rock Galactic, Hotshot Racing, Jedi Fallen Order, The Outer Worlds and Wasteland 3. All games I wouldn't have bought (maybe JFO/TOW in a big discount sale down the line)

On the other hand I'm glad I didn't have to buy Dirt 5. I absolutely would have if I was only on PS5 / it didn't come to Gamepass and I really think it's average as feck.

Any b tier recommendations?

 

[Alock1]

But that doesn't take into account people that download for 5 mins and uninstall. That just gets chalked up to one of many meaningless statistics in that PR piece.

You're acting like Gamepass is the saviour of gaming. It's a mediocre rental service right now. The mediocre nature simply comes from MS lack of decent IP. And the flagship games are all very similar.

IF, and it's still a big IF, MS start to get some decent IP across a variety of genres in the next 3 years, Gamepass may be something worth getting wound up about. As it stands now, it is mainly old games. The offering of free games every month is not much better than PS+.

Also the issue MS have is their insistence on every device being viable for Gamepass. I already own a PC that is better than a Series X, but if I didn't why would I spend £450 if I could get a very similar experience streaming through my phone.

Eventually the price will increase and then is it still a worthwhile proposition for gamers to "try" games they wouldn't try otherwise? I had it for £1 a month for 18 months and still feel I overpaid for it.

But it isn't a meaningless statistic anyway. Being able to download and try a game for 5 minutes or an hour and not have to pay money for the pleasure is a great benefit to have.

If you only put significant time into 10% of the games you try on gamepass you wouldn't have otherwise bought, it's still a game you wouldn't have otherwise played. And to the dev, if 10% of the people downloading that wouldn't have otherwise are then putting time into the game (and maybe on top streaming, telling others, or further investing money into game) then that's still incremental.

One of the features that appealed to me most from the PS4 launch reveal which I probably posted about here, was the ability to stream the start of games without needing devs to carve out a demo. I don't know if I completely misunderstood the feature or it just wasn't commercially viable for devs (more likely as it probably would have resulted in less sales), but I went away with an expectation that most games you'd be able to try with no barriers to entry (cost and even time downloading) before deciding whether to purchase which I loved.

Anything that allows me to try more games is great. And on console, I have a huge list of good to great games to play and that list only gets longer with each announcement. Definitely isn't a quality problem.

 

[Alock1]

Oh snap wrong thread... feck gamepass.

Spoiler

Any b tier recommendations?

Are you calling all those games b tier?

If so, I completely agree and that's my point. Gamepass makes b-tier games viable again, which have struggled massively last gen as games got more and more expensive to make and mainstream gamers consolidated time into fewer game franchises.

There are a-tier games too - both recent Doom, Prey, Ori, Hollow Knight, Dishonoured 1&2, Nier, Flight Sim, Titanfall 2, all the Halos/Gears/Forzas/Forza Horizons). There was also things like Red Dead Redemption on there previously.

But yes, the A-tier games are what need and will improve and we'll start seeing more examples of that exactly a week from now.

 

[Redlambs]

But it isn't a meaningless statistic anyway. Being able to download and try a game for 5 minutes or an hour and not have to pay money for the pleasure is a great benefit to have.

But you know it's a stretch to claim people with the gamepass "play more games". "Try more games" would be more apt, and there is a big difference there, because no way would MS or Steam or anybody else give out accurate stats (or any at all) on those who dip. Plus it's right to question the source, though I agree with you that it is obvious people would try more games if they have access to such a selection.

That's not to say I'm arguing against your overall point, as that's a definite strength of the Gamepass. Just like, believe it or not, they remove games...though on that front only if it's done by mid-term uptake of course.

I'm more intrigued as to the future when they do inevitably put the prices up and stop the £1 deals.

 

[b82REZ]

But it isn't a meaningless statistic anyway. Being able to download and try a game for 5 minutes or an hour and not have to pay money for the pleasure is a great benefit to have.

If you only put significant time into 10% of the games you try on gamepass you wouldn't have otherwise bought, it's still a game you wouldn't have otherwise played. And to the dev, if 10% of the people downloading that wouldn't have otherwise are then putting time into the game (and maybe on top streaming, telling others, or further investing money into game) then that's still incremental.

One of the features that appealed to me most from the PS4 launch reveal which I probably posted about here, was the ability to stream the start of games without needing devs to carve out a demo. I don't know if I completely misunderstood the feature or it just wasn't commercially viable for devs (more likely as it probably would have resulted in less sales), but I went away with an expectation that most games you'd be able to try with no barriers to entry (cost and even time downloading) before deciding whether to purchase which I loved.

Anything that allows me to try more games is great. And on console, I have a huge list of good to great games to play and that list only gets longer with each announcement. Definitely isn't a quality problem.

So what your saying is Gamepass is the modern day demo disc?

 

[Redlambs]

So what your saying is Gamepass is the modern day demo disc?

It kind of is to be fair

Though that's a good thing, at least for the current cost and set up.

 

[b82REZ]

It kind of is to be fair

Though that's a good thing, at least for the current cost and set up.

Official PlayStation Magazine was £5pm. MS are waaaay behind in pricing.

 

[afrocentricity]

Are you calling all those games b tier?

If so, I completely agree and that's my point. Gamepass makes b-tier games viable again, which have struggled massively last gen as games got more and more expensive to make and mainstream gamers consolidated time into fewer game franchises.

There are a-tier games too - both recent Doom, Prey, Ori, Hollow Knight, Dishonoured 1&2, Nier, Flight Sim, Titanfall 2, all the Halos/Gears/Forzas/Forza Horizons). There was also things like Red Dead Redemption on there previously.

But yes, the A-tier games are what need and will improve and we'll start seeing more examples of that exactly a week from now.

No I was asking if you have any recommendations in the b-tier category, unknown gem type of thing? I'll look out for them on sale.

It's gonna take the release of some exclusive heavy hitters for me to pick up another subscription wrt gamepass...

 

[Redlambs]

Official PlayStation Magazine was £5pm. MS are waaaay behind in pricing.

Some good lads have worked on that too back in the day.

Unlike the stuffy suits at MS who I'm pretty sure aren't allowed to even crack a smile in their little cubicles.

 

[Alock1]

So what your saying is Gamepass is the modern day demo disc?

No because you can't access the full game from a demo disc.

But you know it's a stretch to claim people with the gamepass "play more games". "Try more games" would be more apt, and there is a big difference there, because no way would MS or Steam or anybody else give out accurate stats (or any at all) on those who dip. Plus it's right to question the source, though I agree with you that it is obvious people would try more games if they have access to such a selection.

That's not to say I'm arguing against your overall point, as that's a definite strength of the Gamepass. Just like, believe it or not, they remove games...though on that front only if it's done by mid-term uptake of course.

I'm more intrigued as to the future when they do inevitably put the prices up and stop the £1 deals.

A stretch when referring to the average gamer? They try more games and as a result play more games, and Vs non-gamepass Xbox players put more time into games overall. As I said, put the same or equivalent service on PlayStation or Nintendo and it will have the same effect for those obvious reasons.

Of course it's always worth considering the source and recognizing the vested interest. We don't get to see stats that might suggest it isn't so great in some ways so they can of course be cherry picked. But the underlying stats will be true. As a teaboy who serves coffee to the odd person, I also wouldn't be surprised if the criteria was higher than you'd expect (ie. the amount of minutes required to be considering as having 'played' the game)

On PC I acknowledged the difference is less because games are generally more accessible on there with huge discounts and bundling, and less quality of games on PC Gamepass.

I'm interested too, and would love to know what % of the 20 million who have it are on a standard subscription. By the point the price increases for all the quality of original content *should* be greatly improved too.

 

[Alock1]

No I was asking if you have any recommendations in the b-tier category, unknown gem type of thing? I'll look out for them on sale.

It's gonna take the release of some exclusive heavy hitters for me to pick up another subscription wrt gamepass...

I would have included some of those to be honest. I had no idea about Warhammer Vermintide before and me and my mates have sunk so many hours into it!! Think it's got a bigger following on PC.

 

[esmufc07]

Microdot must be paying you a lot of money @Alock1

 

[b82REZ]

Microdot must be paying you a lot of money @Alock1

I was just about to reply something very similar.

I'm starting to think he's an AI programed by MS.

 

[Redlambs]

No because you can't access the full game from a demo disc.


A stretch when referring to the average gamer? They try more games and as a result play more games, and Vs non-gamepass Xbox players put more time into games overall. As I said, put the same or equivalent service on PlayStation or Nintendo and it will have the same effect for those obvious reasons.

Of course it's always worth considering the source and recognizing the vested interest. We don't get to see stats that might suggest it isn't so great in some ways so they can of course be cherry picked. But the underlying stats will be true. As a teaboy who serves coffee to the odd person, I also wouldn't be surprised if the criteria was higher than you'd expect (ie. the amount of minutes required to be considering as having 'played' the game)

On PC I acknowledged the difference is less because games are generally more accessible on there with huge discounts and bundling, and less quality of games on PC Gamepass.

But whether or not that Teaboy knows any actual true stats, that doesn't change my point that no way would they release them unedited. Their public and private criteria's will be very different, you know that.

You yourself admit to being more casual and not playing as many games as you would through this, going by the list you posted of well liked games you'd have no intention of playing, but you list those you've stuck with. Great, but we know people clearly will be doing the 5minute delete job in more numbers...hell I even do it on both gamepasses, and I play more games than anyone

In any case, I'm not arguing the overall point that is more people are bound to try games and then stick to some, just I wouldn't go completely off those stats.

I'm interested too, and would love to know what % of the 20 million who have it are on a standard subscription. By the point the price increases for all the quality of original content *should* be greatly improved too.

Yep, that will be interesting. The amount of people who would keep it or at least be so happy with it if it wasn't for the £1 trick would be interesting too. Personally I'd say it would still represent value for money, even if a hell of a lot of games on it I personally already own/have played/have got free elsewhere, but I think there would be a few who would consider cancelling every now and then at £10 or whatever it is a month.

On the quality front, they still have the advantage right now that a hell of a lot of those subs don't realise how many of those games have been free on other platforms and little competition. When it really kicks off, the combination of the £1 deal going away and what the others offer shall be interesting indeed. Which is why, as we've said all along, it's about names and numbers right now over revenue.

 

[Alock1]

Microdot must be paying you a lot of money @Alock1

They only pay me for the coffee mate!

 

[Redlambs]

Through a holding company.

 

[Alock1]

But whether or not that Teaboy knows any actual true stats, that doesn't change my point that no way would they release them unedited. Their public and private criteria's will be very different, you know that.

You yourself admit to being more casual and not playing as many games as you would through this, going by the list you posted of well liked games you'd have no intention of playing, but you list those you've stuck with. Great, but we know people clearly will be doing the 5minute delete job in more numbers...hell I even do it on both gamepasses, and I play more games than anyone

In any case, I'm not arguing the overall point that is more people are bound to try games and then stick to some, just I wouldn't go completely off those stats.

Yep, that will be interesting. The amount of people who would keep it or at least be so happy with it if it wasn't for the £1 trick would be interesting too. Personally I'd say it would still represent value for money, even if a hell of a lot of games on it I personally already own/have played/have got free elsewhere, but I think there would be a few who would consider cancelling every now and then at £10 or whatever it is a month.

On the quality front, they still have the advantage right now that a hell of a lot of those subs don't realise how many of those games have been free on other platforms and little competition. When it really kicks off, the combination of the £1 deal going away and what the others offer shall be interesting indeed. Which is why, as we've said all along, it's about names and numbers right now over revenue.

I don't know any stats, just saying. Not sure about edited but selective I would definitely agree with. I don't think they need to edit them, as we've both said, it's the natural expected consequence of a service like this. But that they would only show selective stats that spin gamepass in a positive light - of course.

I don't put everything in those stats, I'd have guessed it without seeing them for reasons above. But he asked me if there was anything to help back it up and here we are.

Absolutely there would be people questioning the cost, and they wouldnt have the adoption rate on Series S/X, the low churn or the overall numbers if not for those initiatives to get early adoption as they build out the catalogue.