You’ve mentioned laws twice now, just curious what laws Britain has that discriminate against a hell of a lot of people?
Protests following the killing of George Floyd
- Thread starter Abizzz
- Start date
This was good... But it has me confused. What does "defund the police" really mean. Because here hes basically saying I'm stupid to think it means abolish police And law enforcement... But then this chap is telling me nah nah... Police aren't needed.
This doesn't seem to be a fringe position
I'm not sure what to make of it And maybe I'm naive to think that some level of law enforcement is needed in society.
Considering that the precursors to democracy are almost always one form or other of injustice and discrimination, is there one which is not founded upon conditions conducive to systemic intolerance and inequity?
Its definitely a politically losing position that Trump and his goons are salivating the Dems embrace. Thankfully Biden didn't take the bait.
I think it's worth saying that while we mostly stayed around to grab more to a certain extent Britain tried to bring administration to help develop countries too and even if we still hold issues a sizeable part of our culture was to try to import parts of those other cultures too and we have benefitted hugely from the people who risked coming here. It's our shame that those people and their British families aren't treated well.
It's such an awful slogan.... "defund the police!!"...
Wait what do you mean...
"defund the police... Doesn't actually mean defund the police... It means this entirely different more nuanced solution... Obviously"
Off the top of my head because it's late; our police forces are still sparse of diversity even after 20 years when the forces pledge to rectify it and ensure that there were more minority officers, especially working in areas where minorities reside. Labour were backing some sort of positive discrimination to tackle it a few months back. The point is though that none of the forces hit their targets and there doesn't seem to be much push to enact any sort of law to pursue it. Our Race Relations Act seems to need updating too.
https://www.thebritishacademy.ac.uk...es-still-discriminated-against-uk-job-market/
My head's all mushy from gardening today, best I can do tonight.
Which could of course work locally in a place like Minneapolis, but it would be an absolutely calamitous slogan for a national campaign and could easily sink a candidacy.
It got you talking about it.
Fixed.
Actually it wasn't the slogan.. It was watching Oliver that got me talking. Initially hearing the slogan had me silent because it sounded like what it sounded like. I feel sometimes messaging for progressive ideas is lacking and counter productive to getting people on board.
I am certain there are some Ukrainians as well. And maybe South Koreans?
A fundamental, bottom up, “scrap it all and start again” reimagining of the police is exactly what is needed and as much as “defund” might not immediate get across the nuance of the idea it’s good enough imo.
Times columnist Melanie Phillips:
Sick to death of columnist court jesters to the establishment like her. Johnson used to be one of them.
Sick to death of columnist court jesters to the establishment like her. Johnson used to be one of them.
Times columnist Melanie Phillips:
Sick to death of columnist court jesters to the establishment like her. Johnson used to be one of them.
“Perish the through”
Anyone can make a misteak.
Happens to the breast of us.
Freud will be pleased.
Times columnist Melanie Phillips:
Sick to death of columnist court jesters to the establishment like her. Johnson used to be one of them.
“Bad luck” is an angle I haven’t heard before.
“So listen, black people... all this poverty, discrimination and police brutality... did it ever occur to you that maybe you’re just really really unlucky?”
Even without considering the usual, expected stuff (distraction from their own failings, right-wing reactionary tendencies etc), I find the government's overreaction to the statue-toppling to be completely bizarre. I mean, we have the PM, Home Secretary and other high-ups doing press conferences, Johnson writing newspaper articles about it and so on, while their MPs call for the 'full force of the law' to be applied to those responsible...for the overthrow of a piece of metal far away from London. What gives? It was hardly the first blow of a revolution or even that Colston was a figure of such Conservative standing that the politicians were bound to be appalled...
They don't, and don't want to, understand. I recall Cameron - in his early days when even the Tory 'papers would ridicule him for being lightweight and green - saying that young people who were struggling financially should 'dip into their trust funds'.
This is such a dangerous rhetoric. Because if there is anything both dems and republicans have historically agreed upon, it is crime and policing. Never have dems stood up or fought against any of the racist policies in the past, let alone reform it. Making it about trump is just another lazy argument to avoid solving the issue but still keep benefiting from it.
Rather than defund the police, the right thing to do is require serving officers to carry their own individual, or group, liability insurance. Then, their rates are going to be driven by their conduct and vice versa. Repeat offenders won't be able to get insured and therefore won't be able to be cops.
‘They set us up’: US police arrested over 10,000 protesters, many non-violent
'More than 10,000 people have been arrested around the US during the protests, as police forces regularly use pepper spray, rubber bullets, teargas and batons on protesters, media and bystanders. Several major US cities have enacted curfews in an attempt to stop demonstrations and curb unrest.
Jarah Gibson was arrested while non-violently protesting in Atlanta, Georgia, on 1 June.
“The police were there from the jump and literally escorted us the whole march,” said Gibson. "The police are instigating everything and they are criminalizing us. Now I have my mugshot taken, my fingerprints taken and my eyes scanned. Now I’m a criminal over an illegal arrest,” added Gibson. “I want to be heard and I want the police to just abide by basic human decency.”'
(Guardian)
'More than 10,000 people have been arrested around the US during the protests, as police forces regularly use pepper spray, rubber bullets, teargas and batons on protesters, media and bystanders. Several major US cities have enacted curfews in an attempt to stop demonstrations and curb unrest.
Jarah Gibson was arrested while non-violently protesting in Atlanta, Georgia, on 1 June.
“The police were there from the jump and literally escorted us the whole march,” said Gibson. "The police are instigating everything and they are criminalizing us. Now I have my mugshot taken, my fingerprints taken and my eyes scanned. Now I’m a criminal over an illegal arrest,” added Gibson. “I want to be heard and I want the police to just abide by basic human decency.”'
(Guardian)
but in that case contact with the citizen would become, in some cases, a type of blackmail. Something like the customer who threatens the dependent with a claim sheet, if the service does not suit their tastes or if they do not get certain advantages.
It would mean creating widespread suspicions between the citizen and the police, questioning their authority.
Even if there is an atmosphere of tension, the entire police cannot be criminalized, nor can the law enforcement be treated like an administration clerk
Can't people already do that? Oh, they can and the public purse pays for it.
Trust clearly doesn't exist anymore. That's why we want them all wearing body cams.
Who's criminalizing them? Bad police officers get to hide behind their badge and the thin blue line while society pays the consequences for their litany of errors and abuses. Making them take on some of that responsibility will improve policing.
US need more political options. Seems it a bunch of money grabbing corrupt grubs who are in charge no matter whom you vote for. Democrats have so much to answer for with regard the the mess that the US is today.
Why should they? Because Garethw thinks flag burning means you hate your country?
Wouldn't it be more productive to address the reasons people feel that such a protest is required?
I also wonder where people get the idea that Britain isn't a racist country? Like privileged there are degrees. Institutional racism clearly exists in the UK. Not being as bad another named country or as bad as we used to be doesn't mean we aren't a racist country. Look at things like healthcare access and outcomes, income, the likelihood of being randomly stopped by the police, university entry, the likelihood of getting a job interview depending on how white your name sounds and hundreds of other things.
Where I now live is better than the UK in many ways particularly in the cities but worse in some places, particularly country towns. We are still have a horrendous blind-spot when it comes to Aboriginal people. On that issue it is interesting how common implicit bias is when it comes to race, even if many people who do have a bias would be horrified to know that. Bias doesn't automatically result in racism but it sure makes institutional racism incredibly likely.
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...ed-against-indigenous-australians-study-finds
Where I now live is better than the UK in many ways particularly in the cities but worse in some places, particularly country towns. We are still have a horrendous blind-spot when it comes to Aboriginal people. On that issue it is interesting how common implicit bias is when it comes to race, even if many people who do have a bias would be horrified to know that. Bias doesn't automatically result in racism but it sure makes institutional racism incredibly likely.
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...ed-against-indigenous-australians-study-finds
I totally agree with you. Its actually a fantastic idea imo.
There are many public servants, who do not lose working conditions by making a mistake, since not all mistakes will consist of a sadist suffocating someone.
The cameras sound good, but also incredibly expensive and difficult to manage.
You spend a lot in an institution that you don't trust or you leave them without money, enhancing private security, which will only favor a part of the population.
In the long run the citizen and the authority have to trust each other, so I would bet on changing access, training and law study, however I am lost there, I only know about my country, where It is not an easy process, and where a certain rectitude and control is required, to assess whether you are worth it to act on the street. I think I remember that a Norwegian poster said that there they had 3 years of academy!
Defund the police is a stroke of brilliance. When you have an out of control racist and violent organisation, one that is financially backed by the government and ultimately funded by tax payers, how do you begin to reign it in?
You can get out on the street and start smashing it with sticks, but then they can afford bigger sticks. You can peacefully chant slogans in the hope that they will listen, but the syllabus of violence and racism has the benefit of being institutionally ingrained.
Or you can go after their funding, which should shock them to the core, posing them an existential threat. If you continue to kill black people you don't get your allowance. If you beat non violent protesters and target minorities with racist policies then no treats for you. If you push old people to the floor and shoot disabled homeless people then no money for the arcades.
It's largely the people's money and they should be able to campaign to have it spent in a way that serves the people and not racist hegemonies.
Yet a well run police force that puts the public's interest first can be of huge benefit to a society. So when that type is put in place you incentivise it by funding it.
You can get out on the street and start smashing it with sticks, but then they can afford bigger sticks. You can peacefully chant slogans in the hope that they will listen, but the syllabus of violence and racism has the benefit of being institutionally ingrained.
Or you can go after their funding, which should shock them to the core, posing them an existential threat. If you continue to kill black people you don't get your allowance. If you beat non violent protesters and target minorities with racist policies then no treats for you. If you push old people to the floor and shoot disabled homeless people then no money for the arcades.
It's largely the people's money and they should be able to campaign to have it spent in a way that serves the people and not racist hegemonies.
Yet a well run police force that puts the public's interest first can be of huge benefit to a society. So when that type is put in place you incentivise it by funding it.
Yeah defund the police
We've gutted other parts of the public sector for years and they do a better job than the police
I don't expect Biden to endorse it, it's not his decision anyway it's a local/state issue. Cut budgets in half and reassign to community development, mental health, the fire department, libraries, job placement... All that good shit
We've gutted other parts of the public sector for years and they do a better job than the police
I don't expect Biden to endorse it, it's not his decision anyway it's a local/state issue. Cut budgets in half and reassign to community development, mental health, the fire department, libraries, job placement... All that good shit
Blacks and Asians are more likely to go to university than whites in the UK.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ts-twice-likely-go-university-white-students/
People of some ethnic backgrounds are more likely to be stopped by police but these races tend to be the ones committing a disproportionate amount of crime and violent crime in particular so you’d expect higher rates of police interaction. Having said that blacks are almost 10 times more likely than whites to be stopped and search which even if you adjust for the higher crime rates does seem disproportionate. White Brits are three times more likely to be stopped and search than Chinese people in the UK.
https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures...e-and-the-law/policing/stop-and-search/latest
What a moronic tweet that is. And I don't get all this defund the police business. Sure, if too much money is pumped into the police system then it should be decreased. But it doesn't seem to strike at the heart of the actual problem which is to do with mindset, leadership, processes, accountability etc
This is a good idea. But it's more to do with better administration/development rather than tackling racism, isn't it?