The biggest thing that needs changing right now is the institutional/systemic racism and that is worth fighting for. Its one thing when its individuals its another when its how the whole system is structured.
Protests following the killing of George Floyd
- Thread starter Abizzz
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The biggest thing that needs changing right now is the institutional/systemic racism and that is worth fighting for. Its one thing when its individuals its another when its how the whole system is structured.
Will face disproportionate punishment for the same infractions compared to his white counterparts, will likely still face discrimination of some sort, or alienation from his peers, his every action will be far more scrutinized, and at the end of the day, even if he manages to get the exact same level of education, skills and competence in his own chosen field of work, even if he's the most likeable person in the world, even with all that, when he goes to a job interview he had to blow the interviewer away or chances are he'll still be passed over for a white person with the exact same level of education, skills and competence who didn't even make as good an impression in his interview
And even if he does blow his interviewer away, chances are HR will still decide against hiring him anyways, because they are inherently distrustful of him because of the color of his skin
Wow
This is a bizarre take especially in this thread.
Have you read the lyrics to that song?
It's one of the worst takes of the entire thread, and I think this thread has gotten half a dozen people banned based on their takes so far.
Great post. You’ve also reminded me of Akala’s example which I found to be eye-opening. In Britain, as a mixed-race person he is socialised simply as black. He does not get to be white, but he is as white as he is black in as far as those words have any meaning. But when he visits Jamaica the opposite kind of happens, and his lighter skin brings with it privileges and he is not socialised simply as black. It really displays how absurd the whole concept of race is.
That's not a case of privilege being attributed to race, but privilege attributed to the class. None of those opportunites are due to them being black, it's because they are middle class. Even then, you are ignoring just how many variables are placed within that.
White privilege isn't about white people not having to work hard to get to where they are or not struggling. It is about the biases and segregation that POC face when trying to get to where they are that white people do not have to face such as being targeted for crime and how that targeting is then dealt with. It's about biases that are faced such as 'I employed a black person once and they were lazy so I won't employ another' etc. It's about the fact that for a white person we don't need to protest to gain a voice because we are the voice. It's about the fact that despite the fact that there are black middle class families there is far less opportunity for POC to get to that level of class/wealth/status.
No. In most non Western countries, there is a hierarchy and lighter skinned people go towards the top of that hierarchy.
I've seen people work in the Middle East and the Far East, in jobs they never would have gotten in their own countries and with salaries not befitting their level of experience. Skin 'lightening' creams are common across the ME, Asia and Africa and white people, whether explicitly or not, are seen as better looking and 'better' in general.
People treat you differently in non-white countries but it isn't the same. I've seen it first hand with my wife (who is mixed race but simply looks Dutch) and even amongst my kids, who are a bit of a range when it comes to colours. My wife (and lighter skinned kids) get better treatment than myself or my darker skinned kids.
Yeah that's totally fair. Of course, any and all people who want to contribute and fight injustice are very much appreciated. Im just offering my own personal view I guess. I don't judge or get angry if people aren't getting involved. Though all I ask is if you're not going to get involved to fight it, to at the very least listen to people of colour when they tell you their experiences and not immediately discount them.
That is definitely fecked up and should never ever happen but unfortunately I don't see it changing and I think these massive protests will do more harm than good because it will strengthen nationalist and far right movements. For example I am very aware that majority of the protests are peaceful but seeing places get destroyed and looted by people carrying banners of a criminal is not a pretty view and will definitely be used in nationalist campaigns.
If you're afraid of strengthening the nationalist far-right, you'll end up never doing anything in the fight against injustice. I am quite sure the nationalist far-right was significantly strengthened by the end of the Civil War, by Reconstruction, by the Civil Rights movement, and so on. The only way you won't strengthen the nationalist far-right is to give them everything they want.
Also: https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html
MLK said:
In any case, this is a silly thing to say:
The fact of the matter is that polls have conclusively shown that a large majority of Americans think George Floyd's death was a great injustice. This movement is in no way harmed by George Floyd.
On the contrary in many work places in the UK the protests are having a positive affect.
Where my wife currently works there is no diversity and inclusion stream in their HR department and not one person of colour has been put on the management track (despite there being of a lot of them there.)
This has opened up that dialog and it looks like changes will be made. Thats just one of a few similar stories I have heard of this week alone.
Also of course keeping the political pressure on during the cases of those cops.
Its also inspiring many people to attempt to organise long term solutions which I hope keeps on long term
Nationalist campaigns will happen regardless.
It's funny because peaceful protests strengthen nationalists and far right movements while the majority brush them away, massive protests with violence also strengthen nationalists and far right movements while a minority focus on the violence. Something tells me that the problem isn't the nature of the protests or the protesters.
Well yes and no
Given societal and institutional change typically takes time to implement and embed then what are the short term measures that would convince the protesters to stop at the moment?
I doubt a tweet from trump that he wants a fair society where black, white and other ethnic people are treated the same would cut it... and a structural change in the police, its approach and its governance will take years
So whilst your statement is almost impossible to argue with it also does not give a clear way forward to amicably ending protests in the short term
With respect. No it doesn't, the cause of the problem is white folk getting super defensive whenever someone points out that being white in our society means you're less likely to get discriminated against, or shot for going for a jog, or having someone call the police on you for asking them to put their dog on the leash. It's really got nothing to do with "being part of the problem"
Although if a protestor says something along the lines of "we just want the same protection that white people have" and someone responds with a self indulgent "how can I make this about me" then, yeah, now that someone is a cause of the problem.
Protest fatigue will stop them. There is nothing that can be shortly implemented that will genuinely convince anyone.
It's definitely "damned if you do and damned if you don't" case. I hope it will have a positive affect but I just can't see it.
She's the face of the right wing TPUSA . She is the closet racists wet dream, a black person who trashes other black people, spouting the usual talking points. She just did her usual grift, spouting black crime statistics while spitting in the grave of George Floyd.
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Thats the case regardless of colour.
You need to compare like for like, middle class to middle class.
Isn't it typical that a phrase like 'white privilege' gets wilfully framed as aggressive and rude? That framing is yet another chapter in the history of depicting Black people as crude, intimidating, and outspoken. All it is, surely, is a very necessary message that essentially says: 'You take things for granted, things that I cannot take for granted. Let me speak, and tell you what those things are,'
I'm one of the lucky ones. I have quite a non-threatening preppy look about me.
Possibly... but with protests on such scale nationwide I do wonder if they run out of police to effectively work double/ triple shifts before the protests naturally stop
I think it more refers to privileges white people get that minorities aren’t afforded a lot of the time. It can range from something as trivial as not being followed by security in an expensive shop, to being denied job opportunities based on your ethnicity.
No one’s saying that all white people have a helping hand in life, simply that the based on the colour of your skin alone, you won’t encounter some of the issues that minorities encounter.
It's very much a real tangible thing, you being aware of it or not.
I hope it will have a positive effect. In an ideal world you would choose employees based purely on his skills, not the looks. That's how it should be but unfortunately it clearly isn't. Just hoping that businesses won't be pressured in hiring people of specific ethnicities because I personally know a case just like that.
It depends. Do you speak out against the issue and hold up to the privileges you've had which PoCs are not afforded?
Being silent to the issues is equal to being complicit.
People, if you want to post videos of songs from shitty bands that you think are meaningful then go and create a suitable thread in the Entertainment Forum.
I agree with this, I've seen a lot of it on Facebook - the main angle at the moment from angry white people is posting George Floyd's criminal record as if that in someway justifies his murder
.True, but elections are on November and governors/mayors could kick-start change until then if they want.
“I deeply apologize and I retweeted without watching the full video. I deleted the tweet,” Schlapp wrote. “I would never knowingly promote the use of that word. This is time for healing the nation and not division.”
If anyone falls for this excuse I've got ocean front property to sell in Arizona.
Wonder if the people who supported his free speech will do it now.
I know you’re not talking about Rage and System of a Down
Here, I'll post for those that want to push her bullshit agenda. She's no different than many others simply seeing an opportunity to cash in from racial tensions and polarized political climate.
https://newsone.com/3848636/candace-owens-receipts-con-artist/
Every Receipt Proving Candace Owens Is A Con Artist Who Is Following The Money
We have the receipts.
If it doesn't make us feel a bit guilty for everything that has gone before to whatever degree then it isn't working. There's nothing wrong with feeling a little guilt over what our ancestors have done, it is making History work for us for a change.
Re: White Privilege and other such terms. One thing I will say is that it does get a bit wearing and saddening as a straight white male, to be constantly made out to be the "bad guy" in any given social situation. Be it a discussion on sexism, racism or virtually any other similar topic, the straight while male is always the one to blame - the bad guy, the villain of the piece. Now I accept that this is because historically (and more recently) a lot of the prejudice and discrimination has indeed come from that/my demographic, but nonetheless constantly hearing that you (in an impersonal sense) are the bad guy, that your accomplishments count for less because you had xyz advantages. I see online discussions where people get jumped on and told their opinions are invalid because they are white/male, and everyone is eager to take the other persons side, regardless of who is right and who is wrong.
Personally, I am pretty comfortable in my views - I support the protests, and I acknowledge that white privilege is a thing - but I can also see how it can start to create a bit of a siege mentality when every other demographic in modern society seems to have it in for you.
Personally, I am pretty comfortable in my views - I support the protests, and I acknowledge that white privilege is a thing - but I can also see how it can start to create a bit of a siege mentality when every other demographic in modern society seems to have it in for you.
It's not exactly ruining your day though, is it?
That's where I feel things need to be distinguished. I'm white but my country doesn't have a history of colonialism, oppression and exploitation over foreign lands and ethnicities.
In fact, my nation was conquered and partly enslaved by the Ottoman empire for 500 years, which ended at the end of the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th century. So there is absolutely nothing that I should be ashamed of about my ancestors, quite the opposite. I even have a family story about a person who witnessed the Batak massacre by the Ottomans as a child.
What I'm trying to say is that when talking about white privilege, I believe it's appropriate to point out that it exists in the Western world due to the imperial history of those nations.
It doesnt need to be a point scoring exercise of "who has it worse".
In any event, the entire discussion has gone a bit off topic I think. Hopefully the protests can achieve real change in the U.S and beyond.
quite frankly I see the term “white privilege” used far far more by white people, and the cynic in me would say they use it to show how ‘woke’ they are and use it to absolve their own issues.
it’s not something I would associate with promoting any black stereotype. I’m not denying the existence or the impact of white privilege, but it’s certainty been adopted.
that’s a ridiculous statement. There are 6bn people on the planet, to say that anyone who doesn’t speak up is complicit is absurd, no matter what your race.
You're about 20 years out of date on that one.
I prefer to live in the 90’s!
I was once calling a racist antisemite by a spanish woman for critizing Christopher Columbus opression and murder of native americans...