Protests following the killing of George Floyd

Yeah you are right...I've somehow been a massive twat and gotten you confused with the person who did call me racist. I do apologise.

Feel free to ignore me :lol:

Nothing to apologise for, I assumed that it was a case of mistaken identity with me and the other poster.

I’m not ignoring the other points you’ve made, but I think we’ve both said our piece and I haven’t actually got anything to add
 


Good thread about those who seem to be very vocal in denouncing the protests on public health grounds


It's a different ball game in the US to be fair. The argument @jojojo was making definitely does apply there. There's also an insane racist man in charge of the country who keeps threatening violence towards anti racist people, and who's regard for public health involved encouraging people to drink bleach.

I also don't think he's done a particularly good job in that thread though. He starts by claiming it's ok to simply dismiss people's concerns because he's decided they are conservatives. Then dismisses the opinions of everyone else before he even gets to expalining why the protests are justified. Never a great tactic to insult the people you're trying to get through to at the start of your speech.
 
It's a different ball game in the US to be fair. The argument @jojojo was making definitely does apply there. There's also an insane racist man in charge of the country who keeps threatening violence towards anti racist people, and who's regard for public health involved encouraging people to drink bleach.

I also don't think he's done a particularly good job in that thread though. He starts by claiming it's ok to simply dismiss people's concerns because he's decided they are conservatives. Then dismisses the opinions of everyone else before he even gets to expalining why the protests are justified. Never a great tactic to insult the people you're trying to get through to at the start of your speech.

I’ve not been keeping track of the comments you refer to on here, so the thread is not my attempt to weigh in on that.

He does not dismiss conservative opinion just because they are conservatives, though. He says he believes a lot of them are not in good faith (which I’d say is a valid point) and substantiates this by pointing to the hypocrisy of either the silence when Trump called to lift lockdown or those who were actively calling for it. Then he highlights numerous other examples that should demand people’s attention if they are so concerned with public health but are ignored by the same people desperate to condemn the anti-racist protests as a problem.
 
Nah she makes some great points. Worth a listen

She is a deranged right wing nutcase. She actually blames socialism for racism in the US. She also thinks black people were better off in the 100 years after slavery was abolished and that the civil rights movement made things worse. She also seems to not realise that ANTIFA doesn"t exist except in the wet dreams of white supremacists.
 
The top editor of the Philadelphia Inquirer has resigned following an uproar over a headline bemoaning property damage incurred during the ongoing protests decrying police brutality and racial injustice, the newspaper has announced. The paper said Stan Wischnowski, 58, was stepping down as senior vice president and executive editor after apologizing on Wednesday for the “horribly wrong” decision to use the headline 'Buildings Matter, Too' on a column which suggested an equivalence between the loss of buildings and the lives of black Americans.
 
Yep full of shit. 10 minute strawman about George Floyd being a criminal. Why you would suggest anyone should listen to that jackass is beyond me.

You clearly have your biases then as you completely missed the premise of the video if you think it was all about Floyd being a criminal...
 
You clearly have your biases then as you completely missed the premise of the video if you think it was all about Floyd being a criminal...
The entire content of the video was her reading out his criminal record. She had some bullshit justification as to why it was relevant (it isn't). Its a strawman. Her opinion remains dumb as feck.
I wont be discussing it further, 10 mins is far more time than her opinion warrants. Next time someone asks is it the usual Candace Owens bullshit the answer is yes btw
 
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Yeah, the police brutality videos that are only of black or people of colour being posted, but NO videos of latino, or white people having the same..

Funny that.

It just suits the agenda right now, that only black people are assaulted and killed by only white officers..
Not seen a single person say that but you have to be wilfully ignorant to pretend that black people are targeted by police in equal measure to their races. You should’ve just said All Lives Matter and left it at that.
 
It’s great to see the level of interest in this matter. I’m Surprised it took this long but hey, if changes things for the better then that’s great.
The reality is this shit been going for far too long. Cops need to be held accountable when they go overboard. Good cops need to stop hiding behind the thin blue line and Judges need to send guilty cops down. Payments to families need to come out of the police pension funds.
That’s when we’ll begin to see real change.

The US needs also to invest in educating equally in black communities and making sure the people there know there are opportunities for all that want to succeed.
I still remember my kids (on a volunteer day at a middle school in Washington DC) saying that their elementary school was nicer than that middle school. If 8 year old kids can see the obvious then you know the adults can.
It’s time for wholesale societal change.
It has been time for hundreds of years already.
 
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Just something to lighten the mood a little.
 
Something else to lighten the mood (maybe); it’s a mini crash-course in Minnesota law as it applies to this case. So...maybe just another headache depending on your disposition. Same guy as posted earlier here.

 
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This so so real and so powerful, one of the greatest speeches I've ever heard. If you watch only one VDO today, it has to be this (only few mins long).
It's from Kimberley Jones, who uses playing Monopoly as an analogy to understanding the heinous economic injustice imposed on black people in USA.
(Kimberly Jones, author of I'm Not Dying Here With You Tonight)


Yes, she puts it very well.

I can't help but feel there are going to be an awful lot of us getting some understanding of how it feels, even if it is only some small measure because we have another storm brewing when the banks start repossessing homes, when tenants can't pay the rent. That's when we find out who the Police are there to protect and serve. Whatever happened to protect and serve? Unfortunately the Police certainly in the UK became a tool of the Government against the people in my memory by Margaret Thatcher. I saw then that the people they were meant to be serving became the enemy of the police when they went into colliery towns and villages and used tactics to wind up the miners and then fought them using all the numbers they could call on and the equipment and when those battles were won the Government neutered working people by not allowing them to gather in large groups when striking.

So we know that the Police aren't there to protect and serve anymore if it doesn't suit the Government of the day. If you want anymore examples then watch some repossession videos. The Police will attend ostensibly to prevent or arrest over any breach of the peace however some will assist the bailiffs in gaining entry to a property forgetting who they are there to serve. So, there's the Police who get a bit confused from time to time about Protect and Serve, but property isn't people and as we always say when there's an accident, property can be re-built or re-bought, people's lives are what is important.

But meanwhile how did the Police become so brutal in their activities because I seriously believe it isn't exactly the same situation in the UK and other Western countries? The lady in the video is exactly right when she talks about not being allowed to win the game, first of all the police in the US has always been populated or run largely by racists from the early days of enforcement, I have absolutely no doubt that there have been and always are some police officers who join because they want to help people. They were directly employed by slave owners and then business and were there to protect those interests and there has always been a big interest in keeping those people where they were most easily controlled. Big business have our Government's ear at all times, they fund the campaigns, they lobby those governments to remind them who they owe allegiance to and they fund the most successful media to keep telling the middle classes that they never had it so good. And every day now we see a gradual drain from the middle classes into the 'lower classes' because of the gap increasing between the multi-billionaires and the poor, but the people from the middle classes like to believe they are still middle class so keep supporting their betters. In the UK, the Mail and Telegraph continue to reassure them that capitalism still works. For them. But Capitalism does not work for us, not when we lose our jobs or never had jobs. A lot of us are going to be finding out what it is like to have no support from our governments and what it is like not to have a job contract. I don't mean to give all Police Officers a bad rep but until they remember when it comes down to it who they are there to really protect and serve, and don't jump to their governments bark it is business and their property and interests who they will really serve.

In the UK I believe that it is a case of the odd bad apple, frustration etc but it will get worse especially if and when the Government tell them what to do and when but in the US I'm afraid it has gone too far and for too long. The three types of people at the protests each have their own agendas and the demonstrators need society to change from the top down to really win the game.

There's nothing wrong with running a business so long as you don't seek any special favour. Contributing to party campaigns will need to become illegal, lobbying will need to be strictly regulated. Businesses should be paying their taxes fairly and also their employees. But if you drill down into Brexit (funded by big business) we'll be finding out that all of the protections employees had and that were protected under European Regulation and Law will disappear and that is what Brexit for the Conservatives has been all about. Big business will also be finding it easier to pay less taxes and there will oddly be even less oversight of share bonuses and personal taxation for company officers. For those of us who want to continue to emulate the wealthy perhaps we'll step through a broken plate glass window too.
 
Not seen a single person say that but you have to be wilfully ignorant to pretend that black people are targeted by police in equal measure to their races. You should’ve just said All Lives Matter and left it at that.

keep reading the thread, he did say exactly that and then went on to have an absolute car crash of a thread, one of the worst I’ve seen on here In a while!
 
Are you sure this is the case? "Peaceful protest" is a really bizarre concept to me when it involves blatant disregard for the wellbeing of other people's lives. Like "we don't give a feck if you die but we're calm enough about it not to smash up your shop windows".

There's a debate about this on my facebook right now involving people who went, and we've already had "I always go to protests to support causes I agree with"...that does not sound like pent up frustration and anger to me. It sounds like someone who goes to protests coming up with an excuse to go to a protest.



To be fair, If you don't think what someone has said is racist, probably unwise to call what they say "blatantly racist"..the person you replied to didn't say anything racist so I can only assume you were referring to me.

A couple of things here. Someone going back to work in a key sector (which is what I was arguing) or opening schools to very limited numbers of students (which is also what I was arguing), is definitely not more of a risk than tens of thousands of people marching the fecking streets together multiple days in a row. I mean there is a reason why we aren't allowed to go to football games and why "mass gatherings" are identified as the highest risk.

Also. The reason I was arguing those things is because they are important to support the most vulnerable people who have found the current situation the most difficult, and who may need help to come out in one piece. Where as these protests do not help anyone or anything as far as I can tell, and actually the people most likely to come into harm as a result are the exact same vulnerable people, which includes significant proportions of the black community.

Suggesting that hosting a series of mass protests in the middle of a pandemic that has killed 60,000 people is irresponsible behaviour, is not actually a particularly controversial opinion. It's also not an opinion that goes away by just insinuating it is racist, because it isn't racist.

That’s not what you said though, is it? Here is what you said:

"Black Lives Matter...but actually only in a certain context and not when it applies to me because I'm going to willfully attend an organised protest that will cause people to catch and die from a virus that disproportionately affects black people"?

Not sure that would fit on a placard.

More important to be seen protesting than actually help the cause you're protesting for, apparently.

It’s totally missing the point of the protests; which is against implicit and systemic racism both in the states and in Britain and then sarcastically dismissing them as though they don’t matter or people are only going to them to be seen to have gone. If you don’t see that then you’re privileged enough to have never experienced racism and naive enough to think it’s not here. To deride the protest in such a way is racist, whether you intended it to be or not; perhaps be contrite and apologise for the way you put your argument?

Totally agree the protests can be considered irresponsible, but being someone who went on one I decided that actually in the scheme of things this matters more. It’s a decision we all have to make and one where you (and most of my friends) decided on the other side of the coin.

Edit: and perhaps it’s because I have an American connection through my wife, but this is the first time I have been to a protest. Both BLM protests on Wednesday and Saturday. I feel strongly enough about this that I want to be active.
 
Sooooo......

Who’s behind it?

Why you asking me? Why don't you take an interest? Which........

You ain't. Because I know if I said this person or that person or this group...you'd ask how I know. And I'm not going to do that. Why not look into it yourself?

There are levels of organization and everyone is spied on and they say it's to stop terrorism.. They were spying on Americans for a long long time......and lying about it. What is the end game? Where did the looters come from and how did they get organized? And why was it not predicted based on intel? ... This whole thing, relies on people thinking vs those who refuse to think or can't and then they are played off one another. If everyone CARED...as they claim, there would be much better dialogue and response. We have to be smarter as people to discern times. You go into realms that are not accepted but it's all about perception. You have to perceive the world around you because you are the one who has to interpret it. If you let others think for you; which is whats happening, this is going to happen over and over. If people want to stop these things, people have to Unite but they won't, because they are indifferent to the truth and are domesticated pets. But I'd ask anyone, if you were in a position of law - how would you have stopped it? Are you happy with the response? Has it been portrayed by the media in a way, that unites people and tries to relax people? If you were at a protest, would you loot and if not what would stop you?

And i'll get attacked for saying this but I didn't commit to anything and won't. It's just better not to be a lemming.
 
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I'm surprised killing in the name of hasn't become a little more anthemic around these protests given its subject matter and chorus

I’d have gone with Take the Power Back myself. Perfect for the moment.

The present curriculum, I put my fist in 'em
Eurocentric, every last one of 'em
See right through the red, white, and blue disguise
With lecture I puncture the structure of lies
Installed in our minds and attempting to hold us back
We've got to take it back
Holes in our spirit causing tears and fears
One-sided stories for years and years and years
I'm inferior? Who's inferior?
Yeah, we need to check the interior
Of the system that cares about only one culture
And that, is why we gotta take the power back”
 
I’d have gone with Take the Power Back myself. Perfect for the moment.

The present curriculum, I put my fist in 'em
Eurocentric, every last one of 'em
See right through the red, white, and blue disguise
With lecture I puncture the structure of lies
Installed in our minds and attempting to hold us back
We've got to take it back
Holes in our spirit causing tears and fears
One-sided stories for years and years and years
I'm inferior? Who's inferior?
Yeah, we need to check the interior
Of the system that cares about only one culture
And that, is why we gotta take the power back”

Yeah, RATM always pretty clever when it comes to lyrics. One of my favourites;

WAKE UP!
WAKE UP!
WAKE UP!
WAKE UP!
WAKE UP!
WAKE UP!
WAKE UP!
WAKE UP!
 
Why you asking me? Why don't you take an interest? Which........

You ain't. Because I know if I said this person or that person or this group...you'd ask how I know. And I'm not going to do that. Why not look into it yourself?

There are levels of organization and everyone is spied on and they say it's to stop terrorism.. They were spying on Americans for a long long time......and lying about it. What is the end game? Where did the looters come from and how did they get organized? And why was it not predicted based on intel? ... This whole thing, relies on people thinking vs those who refuse to think or can't and then they are played off one another. If everyone CARED...as they claim, there would be much better dialogue and response. We have to be smarter as people to discern times. You go into realms that are not accepted but it's all about perception. You have to perceive the world around you because you are the one who has to interpret it. If you let others think for you; which is whats happening, this is going to happen over and over. If people want to stop these things, people have to Unite but they won't, because they are indifferent to the truth and are domesticated pets. But I'd ask anyone, if you were in a position of law - how would you have stopped it? Are you happy with the response? Has it been portrayed by the media in a way, that unites people and tries to relax people? If you were at a protest, would you loot and if not what would stop you?

And i'll get attacked for saying this but I didn't commit to anything and won't. It's just better not to be a lemming.

Very enlightening. I'm glad you cleared that up.
 
I’d have gone with Take the Power Back myself. Perfect for the moment.

The present curriculum, I put my fist in 'em
Eurocentric, every last one of 'em
See right through the red, white, and blue disguise
With lecture I puncture the structure of lies
Installed in our minds and attempting to hold us back
We've got to take it back
Holes in our spirit causing tears and fears
One-sided stories for years and years and years
I'm inferior? Who's inferior?
Yeah, we need to check the interior
Of the system that cares about only one culture
And that, is why we gotta take the power back”

Gonna go listen to this now :D
 
Quality control
Serj Tankian, the vocalist of System of a Down, recently had to tell people to basically feck off if they don't appreciate the band members making political statements. Imagine listening to System of a Down and thinking it's not political.