Protests following the killing of George Floyd

[Ekkie Thump]

Stop resorting to gutter arguments. If anyone who isn't racially discriminated against is disqualified from having an opinion on racial discrimination, then racial discrimination will always be a thing.

I actually completely understand the protests in america even including the ones that have turned nasty to an extent. I don't think it's reasonable to expect any other reaction at this point. When it comes to the twitter warriors and people here though it is not the same. There is no reason not to focus on trying to help the cause rather than attacking people's emotions to incite anger and hatred.

To be fair noodle, there's also no reason to belittle the reasons of marchers in London to the extent that you have. I see plenty of minority faces in that crowd. You claiming they're only there to demonstrate their right to wave a bit of cardboard is transparently disingenuous and just the kind of bellendery you're accusing others of.

You're inciting incendiary replies with your own invective.

 

[P-Ro]

Something I don’t understand is what’s the end game here? How many consecutive days will we have thousands of people crowding the streets in the UK and Ireland? Obviously, the covid outbreak risk gets higher and higher with each day of protest. When will the organisers decide they’ve made their point?

Until all racial discrimination is eliminated from the world, or something.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Rightwing vigilantes on armed patrol after fake rumours of antifa threat

'In the Idaho city of Coeur d’Alene groups of 30-50 men armed with semi-automatic weapons have occupied downtown streets on successive evenings this week, guarding against supposed busloads of radical leftists rumored to traveling from cities such as Spokane or Seattle, according to local residents and social media materials obtained by the Guardian.

Videos posted to social media by supporters of the vigilante groups showed dozens of people walking up and down a downtown shopping strip, with many open-carrying AR-15s and other semi-automatic long guns, and sporting tactical apparel.

In a cellphone video, as a videographer pans over the scene, he is heard to say: “If you guys are thinking of coming to Coeur D’Alene, to riot or loot, you’d better think again. Because we ain’t having it in our town.”

He adds: “I guess there’s a big rumor that people from Spokane are gonna come out here and act up. But that shit ain’t gonna happen.”'


(Guardian)

From personal experience, Coeur d’Alene is a shithole of far-right wingers and racists. The irony is they love to load up their pick-ups, roll into Spokane, get drunk and make racist comments and cause trouble with the college students around the several universities. People from Coeur d’Alene tend to be the worst scum of the earth, from my experience.

 

[noodlehair]

I found it interesting that the people I know on Facebook and Instagram attending the virus bonanza in London are only documenting their attendance in their 'story' which gets deleted after 24 hours. The cynic in me thinks they realise that they will face backlash in the coming months when it comes to light that there were spikes in deaths from the virus as a result of the protests. The realist in me thinks that it's just a coincidence and they're too unbelievably ignorant to not realise that they'll be responsible for the deaths of many in their city.

But yea, go on defending their right to protest. Because the protests in London will make a massive difference in the fight against racial discrimination nationally and internationally. I'm sure the dead would understand.

I don't think ignorance is really an excuse considering we've been in a lockdown and unable to even meet people for fecking months. I also think it will make a difference. The anger it will cause in people who are still scared by covid 19 and in everyone else when the protests inevitably get linked to a rise in cases and deaths, will make quite a big negative difference to the cause.

Instead of being seen as people fighting racial injustice it will just be seen as selfish people who got some other people killed, and every protest here on will be linked back to the same group of idiots who cared more about protesting than other people's lives.

 

[SteveJ]

Telegraph in 'cynical pile of shit' article shock

 

[Foxbatt]

How can anyone say I know what pain is if that person has never experienced pain? Yes they may see another person in pain but in reality would not know what pain is.
Many white people are not protesting because they personally have experienced discrimination but because they have a conscience just like a lot of white people did against the apartheid regime in South Africa.
A United movement is going to succeed and these protests are the only way to do it now. Talking has failed as it has been all talking for all these years.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

From personal experience, Coeur d’Alene is a shithole of far-right wingers and racists. The irony is they love to load up their pick-ups, roll into Spokane, get drunk and make racist comments and cause trouble with the college students around the several universities. People from Coeur d’Alene tend to be the worst scum of the earth, from my experience.

Spokane is a place I would be completely unaware of if it wasn’t for a Ray La Montagne lyric.

 

[horsechoker]

This reminds me of the joke at the end of the Rick James sketch by Dave Chapelle

"You know you can get another couch. What am I gonna do about my legs Eddie Murphy?"

 

[Dante]

Something I don’t understand is what’s the end game here? How many consecutive days will we have thousands of people crowding the streets in the UK and Ireland? Obviously, the covid outbreak risk gets higher and higher with each day of protest. When will the organisers decide they’ve made their point? In the US they can focus on the specific court case but what’s the equivalent over here?

"When America sneezes the rest of the world catches a cold".

The UK protests will end as soon as the US ones begin to die down. I don't mean this in a critical way, but the protests here are mostly an opportunist reflection of bigger issues across the pond. The grievances definitely do deserve to be aired, but the current spate of protests is an example of globalist bandwagon jumping.

 

[DJ Jeff]

The USA cultural hegemony is genuinely worrying

 

[entropy]

Protests save lives. Don’t let some of the old farts here let you think otherwise.

 

[P-Ro]

I don't think ignorance is really an excuse considering we've been in a lockdown and unable to even meet people for fecking months. I also think it will make a difference. The anger it will cause in people who are still scared by covid 19 and in everyone else when the protests inevitably get linked to a rise in cases and deaths, will make quite a big negative difference to the cause.

Instead of being seen as people fighting racial injustice it will just be seen as selfish people who got some other people killed, and every protest here on will be linked back to the same group of idiots who cared more about protesting than other people's lives.

There's a host of things that people can do to show their solidarity and support for the cause without going out and spreading the virus around. Anyone with a double digit IQ should be able to understand this. The people organising these protests have a lot to answer for, not just for the deaths they will be responsible for but what they've done to alienate their cause.

 

[noodlehair]

I see this a little like the on paper this team is better than this team football argument. On paper it may state we all have the same rights in the UK but when you actually start looking at it 'off paper' you see the huge inequalities in how people are treated, their opportunities etc.

I don't disagree but how do you combat that other than by trying to educate people and eradicate natural prejudice?

There's no law or restriction you can protest for change against because they all already say what you want them to. If a person is publicly racist they are already shamed, etc. There's no solution where you magically click your fingers and suddenly every black person has an equal footing in life compared to white people. It's a long game of convincing people to naturally view a black and white person as the same.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

What the hell are you lot on about?

I say that all lives matter and I get these strange replies? Black lives matter too, all lives matter, what is the problem here?

It’s just an insanely stupid phrase. At best, it’s stating the bleeding obvious. At worst, it’s deliberately belittling the legitimate grievances of black people. Either way, it reflects badly on anyone who uses it.

 

[sammsky1]

Something I don’t understand is what’s the end game here? How many consecutive days will we have thousands of people crowding the streets in the UK and Ireland? Obviously, the covid outbreak risk gets higher and higher with each day of protest. When will the organisers decide they’ve made their point?

Once some tangible change is delivered?

You are right, BLM needs a single voice to articulate what their end game is with a specific set of outcomes to negotiate with.

I wrote before that I hoped Obama could somehow take on that role, but that wont happen.

The politics of this suggest that BLM will play the long game, and ensure this becomes an election issue with Trump and Biden forced into making manifest pledges. Ditto, that will trickle into UK and other nations.

 

[Fortitude]

This reminds me of the joke at the end of the Rick James sketch by Dave Chapelle

"You know you can get another couch. What am I gonna do about my legs Eddie Murphy?"

Classic.

How his social commentary would be invaluable at the moment - not Rick, Dave's!

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Protests save lives. Don’t let some of the old farts here let you think otherwise.

Not during a pandemic. In fact, they’re likely to have the exact opposite effect. Amazing this needs to be pointed out.

 

[Smores]

I'd be intrigued to see the crossover of those who thought lockdown shaming was hysterical to those now accusing these protesters of contributing towards murder.

If people can go to work under conditions of no social distancing then perhaps protest against racial discrimination might be as worthy of a cause than profit?

 

[SteveJ]

The objections in the CE board boil down to:

*'I don't like Twitter.'
*'I don't understand Twitter.'
*'Most protesters are insincere because the billions of selfie-takers annoy me.'
*'The anti-racism protesters are insincere because they battled teargas and helicopters with Perrier water bottles.'
*'The anti-sexism protesters are insincere because some of them are attracted to men.'
*'The anti-capitalism protesters are insincere because they bought McDonalds.'
*'The authorities are killing us in several ways but go away and wait until the headlines fade before you protest.'
*'Today's music is just a load of noise.'
*'I don't like or understand Facebook or Instagram either.'

 

[sammsky1]

If you can't even argue honestly don't bother. I never said racism wasn't a problem in the UK and you know full well I didn't. I said that we all have the same rights in the UK and the way to combat it here is to change people's mindsets and educate people. What about this do you disagree with?

Stop resorting to gutter arguments. If anyone who isn't racially discriminated against is disqualified from having an opinion on racial discrimination, then racial discrimination will always be a thing.
I actually completely understand the protests in america even including the ones that have turned nasty to an extent. I don't think it's reasonable to expect any other reaction at this point. When it comes to the twitter warriors and people here though it is not the same. There is no reason not to focus on trying to help the cause rather than attacking people's emotions to incite anger and hatred.

So your lived experience and empathy on racism, white privilege and police brutality against black people, (even sole in UK) is 100% on point, despite all all those with a different life experience and who have actually suffered from the grievances being protested against, are all wrong? That's what you're saying?

You might want to examine this dogmatic belief in your own views.

 

[Ekkie Thump]

What the hell are you lot on about?

I say that all lives matter and I get these strange replies? Black lives matter too, all lives matter, what is the problem here?

My dad got upset about this one on the phone with me this morning. That all lives should matter is precisely the point. The claim is that some lives don't appear to matter as much. The slogan "Black Lives Matter" is highlighting a discrepancy between the ideal (that all lives matter) and the reality (that black lives appear to matter less).

When you respond to someone saying "black lives matter" by saying "all lives matter" you appear to be deaf to the actual point. It's the "all animals are equal" analogy from Animal Farm.

 

[noodlehair]

To be fair noodle, there's also no reason to belittle the reasons of marchers in London to the extent that you have. I see plenty of minority faces in that crowd. You claiming they're only there to demonstrate their right to wave a bit of cardboard is transparently disingenuous and just the kind of bellendery you're accusing others of.

You're inciting incendiary replies with your own invective.

I can see your point but as far as reasons go, I think the fact they are certainly going to cost innocent people their lives is a pretty big one.

If I told you that you can go to a Black Lives Matter protest, as long as some black people die of a virus as a result of you going, then unless you actually had no regard for black lives, I'd say it's fair to assume you wouldn't go. If you do go then the best excuse available is that you're really stupid.

If you can give me a convincing argument to the contrary then fair enough, but I can't think what it would be.

 

[P-Ro]

Protests save lives. Don’t let some of the old farts here let you think otherwise.

What a fecking dumb thing to say in the context of the London protests.

Or taking it out of context you can look at the state of Syria and tell me that protests save lives with a straight face.

 

[sammsky1]

Well maybe that's because I haven't read the thread or seen the various things you've mentioned. I was only refering to the last few pages and to a few links that other members had also called misleading.
Sorry to have got so many of you so upset and emotional on here.. Think everyone here needs to step back from attacking and piling on to a person..
Nasty bullying atmosphere here.

Have not seen even one poster bullying you. Perhaps you should inform a mod with specifics so they can be warned.

 

[noodlehair]

So your lived experience and empathy on racism, white privilege and police brutality against black people, (even sole in UK) is 100% on point, despite all all those with a different life experience and who have actually suffered from the grievances being protested against, are all wrong? That's what you're saying?

You might want to examine this dogmatic belief in your own views.

No that isn't what I said is it. What kind of argument is this?

By your logic if a black man murdered a policeman and it turned out to be because in the past a different policeman racially assaulted him, I wouldn't be allowed to say he was wrong to commit murder unless I had also been racially assaulted by a policeman.

You're either an idiot or deliberately pretending to be one.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I'd be intrigued to see the crossover of those who thought lockdown shaming was hysterical to those now accusing these protesters of contributing towards murder.

If people can go to work under conditions of no social distancing then perhaps protest against racial discrimination might be as worthy of a cause than profit?

They can’t though. They certainly shouldn’t. With the only exceptions being where social distancing isn’t possible (e.g. doctors, nurses) so they have to wear loads of PPE.

Basically, that’s a pretty poor analogy.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Yeah the protests had to be done in America and do need to continue till justice is served but in the U.K. we need to start moving away from them and start doing other things to bring change. America had the Ahmaud Arbery shooting, the Amy Cooper incident in the park and then the George Floyd killing. All in the space of a few weeks, people just had enough and rightly so.

Ultimately though as much as people on Twitter (and some in here) are falling over themselves to draw comparisons between the U.K. and US, it really isn’t on the same level and at the moment long term mass protesting is not appropriate with the corona virus situation here. For the U.K. it’s a long game. The US are dealing with active cases that need immediate addressing, nothing we do here in the next week is going to effect what happens over there.

 

[Sky1981]

Yeah the protests had to be done in America and do need to continue till justice is served but in the U.K. we need to start moving away from them and start doing other things to bring change. America had the Ahmaud Arbery shooting, the Amy Cooper incident in the park and then the George Floyd killing. All in the space of a few weeks, people just had enough and rightly so.

Ultimately though as much as people on Twitter (and some in here) are falling over themselves to draw comparisons between the U.K. and US, it really isn’t on the same level and at the moment long term mass protesting is not appropriate with the corona virus situation here. For the U.K. it’s a long game. The US are dealing with active cases that need immediate addressing, nothing we do here in the next week is going to effect what happens over there.

On the contrary though, nothing you did on picadily square or trafalgar would matter, but collectively between you, canada, german, etc it could really make a difference.

It's one thing having american on nation wide protest, the whole western civilization joining in is the game changer

 

[Kag]

Not during a pandemic. In fact, they’re likely to have the exact opposite effect. Amazing this needs to be pointed out.

The pandemic will be finished in the near future and the world will still turn; the overwhelming majority of the world’s population unaffected. When this happens, institutional racism will remain alive and kicking, and black people will still suffer at the inequality of the system. Real change in relation to this movement would blow the negative effects of the virus out of the water. One protest doesn’t change systems, and therefore lives, immeasurably, but over time one can only hope.

 

[entropy]

What a fecking dumb thing to say in the context of the London protests.

Or taking it out of context you can look at the state of Syria and tell me that protests save lives with a straight face.

If BJ was my PM id be grateful people are protesting. Irrespective of whether or not there is a pandemic. As for the part about Syria, I don’t know what that even means.

 

[sammsky1]

I've not stated 'white' lives matter. Where did you get that from? I said all lives matter, but everyone here has somehow been offended by that and got all angry and had a go.. If me being mixed race and saying equality for all and all peoples lives matter is somehow wrong, then I don't know what to say.

I repeat, I'm mixed race, I've had multiple racist things happen to me, from white people, and more racsim from black people towards me.. Being mixed race has seen me get hate from all sides at various times, and asking or saying all lives matters is perfectly okay.

If you guys want to take offence at that then fine.

This place has gone to the dogs and seems to have lost all sense of perspective.

Apologies, I meant 'All Lives Matter' which is what you wrote, and not 'White Lives Matter' which is what I claimed you wrote in my post.

It was a freudian slip, but actually makes my point even more strongly: In this current political climate, many feel that when people claim "All Lives Matter", what they are actually saying is "White Lives Matter too", which is a crude attempt to dilute the BLM movement.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

More tinfoil tidings from Pox News:

wtf are these people on?

 

[sammsky1]

No that isn't what I said is it. What kind of argument is this?

By your logic if a black man murdered a policeman and it turned out to be because in the past a different policeman racially assaulted him, I wouldn't be allowed to say he was wrong to commit murder unless I had also been racially assaulted by a policeman.

You're either an idiot or deliberately pretending to be one.

I have no idea what this whataboutism means, Really I dont. I also stand by my post, which you haven answered.

 

[P-Ro]

I'd be intrigued to see the crossover of those who thought lockdown shaming was hysterical to those now accusing these protesters of contributing towards murder.

If people can go to work under conditions of no social distancing then perhaps protest against racial discrimination might be as worthy of a cause than profit?

I can't imagine there would be many of those as that is textbook hypocrisy. There's no real wriggle room from having those 2 diametrically opposed stances.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

I don't even understand that. The feck is the weather underground?

You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

 

[Ekkie Thump]

I can see your point but as far as reasons go, I think the fact they are certainly going to cost innocent people their lives is a pretty big one.

If I told you that you can go to a Black Lives Matter protest, as long as some black people die of a virus as a result of you going, then unless you actually had no regard for black lives, I'd say it's fair to assume you wouldn't go. If you do go then the best excuse available is that you're really stupid.

If you can give me a convincing argument to the contrary then fair enough, but I can't think what it would be.

I personally would like to go to one of these protests but will not do so due to Covid. I'm sympathetic to your argument that it's a mistake, quite possibly counterproductive and likely to lead to a growth in cases and deaths. Then again I'm a white dude who has no direct experience of police brutality or racism to animate me beyond a common sympathy. I don't feel like I should impugn the motives of someone who's personal calculus is different even if I disagree with the actions that come out of them.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Absolutely out of control:

Spoiler

this looks like it's outside of Toronto Police HQ.

 

[Abizzz]

Where have all these all lives matter people been before "black lives matter"? Where was their movement? Why didn't they do anything so that indeed all lives mattered? Surely if all lives had mattered stating "black lives matter" would be superfluous. Yet the fact remains that it isn't. And if you're of the opinion that that isn't the case your opinion is easily refuted by facts:
https://www.thebalance.com/the-racial-life-expectancy-gap-in-the-u-s-4588898

So please, do something that shows that all lives do indeed matter, or at least have the fecking class to stop using it as a contrarian talking point before bemoaning the lack of respect that is shown towards "other opinions" on here.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Rightwing vigilantes on armed patrol after fake rumours of antifa threat

'In the Idaho city of Coeur d’Alene groups of 30-50 men armed with semi-automatic weapons have occupied downtown streets on successive evenings this week, guarding against supposed busloads of radical leftists rumored to traveling from cities such as Spokane or Seattle, according to local residents and social media materials obtained by the Guardian.

Videos posted to social media by supporters of the vigilante groups showed dozens of people walking up and down a downtown shopping strip, with many open-carrying AR-15s and other semi-automatic long guns, and sporting tactical apparel.

In a cellphone video, as a videographer pans over the scene, he is heard to say: “If you guys are thinking of coming to Coeur D’Alene, to riot or loot, you’d better think again. Because we ain’t having it in our town.”

He adds: “I guess there’s a big rumor that people from Spokane are gonna come out here and act up. But that shit ain’t gonna happen.”'


(Guardian)

Coeur d'Alene, though a beautiful little town, is just that. A little town that not even people 90 minutes away in Spokane would waste their time going to if they aren't planning to go camping or skiing.

 

[Carolina Red]

I said all lives matter

Saying black lives matter is in no way a statement that other lives don’t.

People didn’t respond with something like “all lives matter” to Boston Strong, Stand with Vegas, Je suis Charlie, Peace for Paris, etc.