1st degree = premeditation
Protests following the killing of George Floyd
- Thread starter Abizzz
- Start date
1st degree = premeditation
This is a difficult one because if a complaint has led to no charges, then arguably it should not be factored into any future case. On the flipside, the sheer volume of complaints made against him does suggest "no smoke without fire".
Thanks. The break did me a world of good, but it's good to be back.
Is there a link to this somewhere?
Chauvin, who joined the force in 2001, had already been involved in several incidents, according to a database by Minneapolis’ Communities United Against Police Brutality.
Chauvin was one of five officers who were placed on leave after they shot and wounded an indigenous man in 2011, the Daily Beast reported. Later that year, officers had been responding to a domestic violence call, and Chauvin claimed that the man reached for his gun. The man was shot (not by Chauvin, but by a different officer) and wounded. Authorities later determined that the officers had acted “appropriately”.
The second officer, Tou Thao, is a 10-year veteran of the force. He was previously sued by a man who alleged he and two officers used excessive force during an 2014 arrest. The man, who had been walking along with his pregnant girlfriend, was stopped by Thao and another officer. The lawsuit alleged they “punch[ed], kick[ed] and kn[eed]” the man’s “face and body” causing “broken teeth as well as other bruising and trauma”. The lawsuit was settled out of court.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-officers-derek-chauvin-tou-thao-investigated
Chauvin was one of five officers who were placed on leave after they shot and wounded an indigenous man in 2011, the Daily Beast reported. Later that year, officers had been responding to a domestic violence call, and Chauvin claimed that the man reached for his gun. The man was shot (not by Chauvin, but by a different officer) and wounded. Authorities later determined that the officers had acted “appropriately”.
The second officer, Tou Thao, is a 10-year veteran of the force. He was previously sued by a man who alleged he and two officers used excessive force during an 2014 arrest. The man, who had been walking along with his pregnant girlfriend, was stopped by Thao and another officer. The lawsuit alleged they “punch[ed], kick[ed] and kn[eed]” the man’s “face and body” causing “broken teeth as well as other bruising and trauma”. The lawsuit was settled out of court.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-officers-derek-chauvin-tou-thao-investigated
I should clarify that this is my opinion and my understanding of standard HR disciplinary practices. I dont know the specifics when it comes to police investigations. I just think that if someone made a complaint against me and the complaint was dismissed (as appears to have been the case - rightly or wrongly), I wouldn't expect that complaint to be factored into any future decision.
To clarify: I am not defending Chauvin's actions, and with that sort of rap sheet I think it still speaks volumes about his character. One person complaints and maybe there is a misunderstanding. Seventeen complaints seems a bit much to be coincidental.
Guess she is out the running for vp
Sorry i meant to his complaint history, ive missed that.
Sen. Amy Klobuchar, D-Minn, on Friday defended her record as a former county prosecutor, rejecting accusations that she declined to press charges against the cop who knelt on George Floyd's neck for the killing of a suspect in 2006.
In October 2006, that officer, Derek Chauvin, was involved in the fatal shooting of a stabbing suspect. At the time, Klobuchar was the attorney for Hennepin County, which contains Minneapolis. Klobuchar was elected to the U.S. Senate the next month.
Klobuchar, however, told MSNBC's Andrea Mitchell on Friday that she never declined to prosecute Chauvin. She explained that the investigation into the case began during her tenure but continued into the time during which she’d already been sworn into the Senate and was ultimately handled by her successor.
“This idea that I somehow declined a case … against this officer is absolutely false. It is a lie. I don't know what else to say about it,” Klobuchar said.
Klobuchar explained that her successor sent the the case to a grand jury, which ultimately declined in 2008 to charge Chauvin. In a statement Friday, the Hennepin County attorney's office said, "Sen. Klobuchar's last day in the office here was December 31, 2006, and she had no involvement in the prosecution of this case at all."
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...e-updates-n1217886/ncrd1218161#liveBlogHeader
In October 2006, that officer, Derek Chauvin, was involved in the fatal shooting of a stabbing suspect. At the time, Klobuchar was the attorney for Hennepin County, which contains Minneapolis. Klobuchar was elected to the U.S. Senate the next month.
Klobuchar, however, told MSNBC's Andrea Mitchell on Friday that she never declined to prosecute Chauvin. She explained that the investigation into the case began during her tenure but continued into the time during which she’d already been sworn into the Senate and was ultimately handled by her successor.
“This idea that I somehow declined a case … against this officer is absolutely false. It is a lie. I don't know what else to say about it,” Klobuchar said.
Klobuchar explained that her successor sent the the case to a grand jury, which ultimately declined in 2008 to charge Chauvin. In a statement Friday, the Hennepin County attorney's office said, "Sen. Klobuchar's last day in the office here was December 31, 2006, and she had no involvement in the prosecution of this case at all."
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...e-updates-n1217886/ncrd1218161#liveBlogHeader
He still has to be found guilty for any of it to be worth a damn.
I'm not so sure. Uncle Joe is quite forgetful.
This is why its always pertinent to wait until the facts come to light. She's getting hounded for something that she had no part in
Just read that Chauvin had 18 other previous complaints for brutality made against him.
The Asian officer had also had complaints made against him too. One was for hitting a suspect while in handcuffs.
Why were they still Employed? Serious questions need to be asked as to why such unacceptable behaviour gets swept under the carpet.
The Asian officer had also had complaints made against him too. One was for hitting a suspect while in handcuffs.
Why were they still Employed? Serious questions need to be asked as to why such unacceptable behaviour gets swept under the carpet.
Ah apologies. It was posted on here yesterday in one of these threads. I will confess that I dont know the reliability of the original source (it was a tweet I believe), but it basically said that Chauvin had 17 complaints against him, 15 of which resulted in no further action. I think those were the numbers.
If he has been banned and hasn't just made his profile private then banning him is an appropriate measure of action in my view.
So apparently up till now received 18 formal complaints, most of which closed, and the rest being a mere letter to reprimand him. Shot an unarmed black man in 2008 ...
https://kstp.com/news/george-floyd-...t-south-minneapolis-club-may-28-2020/5743990/
They worked for the same club at one point..
They worked for the same club at one point..
Which is pretty normal in most countries these days tbh.
Has this been corroborated?
Apparently the timeline for that doesn’t match up. The story I posted from NBC states that she was no longer in office when that case was handled.
This video below explains the utter shitshow behind America's policing.
In short, it's nigh on impossible to prosecute any police officer with anything. Not only that, but police unions have been able to write some incredible conditions into law to prevent any charges being filed in the first place. And then you have the incestuous relationship that exists between the police force and the prosecutor's office.
There are also some interesting bits that relate directly to Minneapolis and the glorification of violence by some of its officers. It's kind of eyebrow raising, but also points to the inevitability of something like this happening again in the city.
Just saw on CNN that Chauvin and Floyd used to work as bouncers at the same nightclub.
Am I a joke to you?
Strange notification?
Third-degree murder charge is bullshit.
Prosecution gone for an easy charge to prove.
Prosecution gone for an easy charge to prove.
Don't they always do this though? It's the same in the UK. They go with what they believe will result in a prosecution. Always cautious.
He will get a couple of years in protection and will be out, will probably get some sort of pension too. Can't help feel they gave the lowest charge just to get the heat off their backs.
Given the amount of press, and the rioting that has come about from this, I think a show-trial and lenient sentence would cause rioting and violence on a much greater scale than we are currently seeing. I think a lot of people will be content to let the justice system do its thing, and if Chauvin gets away with minimal punishment then that will be the absolute last straw.
A very quick google gives the following outlines:
I can see why they’ve gone for 3rd degree as an easier charge to prove to be honest.
Given what we know right now, how would they prove premeditation (1st degree) or definite intent to kill (2nd degree)?
Be mindful that for a conviction, they’d have to prove one of those to the jury “beyond a reasonable doubt”.
3rd degree murder still carries a sentence of up to 25 years. If they want to put Chauvin away for a long amount of time, they have the capacity to do that within the scope of these charges. If they let him off with a couple of years, then I dont think it would have truly mattered whether it was 2nd or 3rd degree that he was charged with - he was always going to get away with it.
I agree with you. It's not going to be good news in this case. By the time the case drags on so many African Americans will be shot or killed by the police or the vigilantes.
The won't get first degree but third degree?
I wish I shared your optimism on the lifespan of news stories in the public mind. I think if they dragged it out a couple years and gave a crooked verdict most people would shrug their shoulders and ignore it after the time in between
Isn't the video evidence itself? You had Floyd pretty much telling him several times he couldn't breath and begging him to get off. What's the difference with this and choking someone to death? Genuine questions really.
You (both) may be right. Maybe if significant strides are made to repair the divisions in the U.S. over the next couple of years, then something like this could indeed be brushed under the carpet without too much uproar. That said, this does feel like a bit of a watershed moment. I suppose you should never underestimate the ability of the general public to be fickle and move on to the next spectacle within a few weeks, but it kinda feels like all eyes are on the US and this case right now - the entire world is watching to see how this is handled, and whether the U.S is as fundamentally broken as some believe.
You weren't the first one to mention shadow ban and I was just giving you shit for it
To answer your first question...
1st Degree: No. The video is not sufficient evidence to prove premeditation as it gives you no evidence as to prior planning to kill on the part of Chauvin.
2nd Degree: Maybe. You might be able to convince a jury that Chauvin had definite intent to kill. But that is going to be a long shot, as the defense is going to do all it can to muddy the water and will hammer home about people lying to police and faking injury to get out of holds, etc.
3rd Degree: Yes. It is definitely enough evidence to use to convince a jury that Chauvin was doing something to intentionally harm the victim that resulted in his death, although unintended. He shows indifference to Floyd and that indifference resulted in an unintended homicide.