In your last 4 away games in Europe, your lost 2 and drew 2 while only scoring one goal (at PSV).Hilarious. Won 9 and drew 2 of our last 11 away games, including two at City.
And saying that Sir Alex never sat back.United’s success in Europe in later years was driven by playing defensively in the away games and trying to win at home.
Premier League Gameweek 5
- Thread starter RedRocket9908
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
There was pragmatism for sure especially with Quieroz I think as assistant but it was never cowardly football. United always played to win. Not even in all my hate watching could I say that. It was attacking at home and more balanced away. Never did I see a United team completely sit back Jose like under SAF.
So their last 6 big away games are w0 d4 l2?
Like I said - I’m not talking about the corner itself, it’s the piece of play that wins the corner.
Yes, it was pretty funny to be fair, the way it doinks off Gabriel's (I think) head. But yeah if VAR seen that clear red.
I’m surprised the Arsenal players didn’t make a bigger deal out of it. That’s a clear suspension.
That's ok. They can have their trophy parade in May and then start preparing for the Johnstone Paint trophy in June.
Carragher mentioned that it went off in the dugout between the two sets of coaches after Stones scored but the cameras didn't cut to it. Are there any clips of it?
Yeah would be utterly beaten to a pulp, also no chance whatsoever we recover from conceding first
City are the only team that ETH as a specific plan for. To beat them you need to be very disciplined. Keep Haaland quiet and they can’t do anything. They just shoot outside the box all game if they can’t get in the box.
Too busy taking brown envelopes for a red
That is some absolute nonesense. Arsenal have the best away record in the league in the 2024 calendar year.
10 wins and 2 draws out of 12. With the 2 draws both being in the Etihad stadium. 33 goals scored, 5 conceded. 9 clean sheets.
Astonishing feats.
6? Which 2 non CL games are you counting? Anyways, it's not particularly notable. Tell me how many away games City won in CL in 22/23...
Does it matter? I'm going off numbers someone else posted. City have the track record of winning. Arsenal don't. Did City travel to either the Allianz or Bernabeu and park the bus?
They can't keep doing it as its unsustainable. They've given up 48 shots in their last 2 games. Even from long range eventually they bobble in, deflect in etc...
They're too good to rely on that kinda football.
Arsenal are a fine team but Arteta is overly cautious in big games and it'll cost them time and again.
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It's not so simple. Doku could easily claim he was passing the ball back to an Arsenal player, but miscued it.
I think it was petulance, same as Trossard. But Trossard made it far more obvious.
Wouldn't be totally shocked if that was the case.
I would suggest that both City and Arsenal are cautious. That style that City plays against us has near zero invention and creativity. It's just ticking the ball side to side. City players looked like they were scared to take our players on. This is at your home and half of it against 10 men. Could have thrown a little caution to the wind yourselves there?
Their away game record in the PL last season was 13W 3D 3L, 42 points(2nd, City had 44) with a +30 GD(1st). For some reason you've decided to extrapolate from 2 games at the beginning of the season, one being their derby, the other City, while playing an entire half down a man(notably they weren't parking the bus at even strenght, and were even winning the game!). They'll be fine
Savinho was taking on people all game.
Mate, we had 33 shots and an xg of nearly 3. Did you watch the game? Savinho was running at the fb all game till you switched to the 6-3-0 and then he still tried but couldn't get through Calafiori and Martinelli doubling up. Bernardo went right and had the same problem.
How anyone can watch that game and say both teams were "cautious" is beyond me. Our CB's had like 8 shots combined and played on the edge of your 18 yard box.
You are literally just ticking the ball around sideways for almost 90 minutes. Nobody even took on our defenders when we went down a man...Doku had a couple of half hearted attempts but seemed scared to lose the ball. 90% of those attempts you talk about were worthless. Do you really consider Dias and Kovacic having a pop through 20 legs creative? When waa the last time Dias even scored in the PL? I will give Grealish some credit, he actually tried when he got on at least.
City plays the same way and thinks that's adventurous when it isn't. They are just very good at strangling the life out of a game and putting pressure hoping for a mistake.
You were told that Savinho did it relentlessly but ok...
For what its worth... according to whoScored. Savinho 3 dribbles, Bernardo and Gundogan 2, Doku 2, Grealish 1.
Havertz was the only Arsenal attacker who registered a successful one yesterday. Vs Spurs no Arsenal player had more than 2.
Only once this season has Saka had more than 1 (4 vs Brighton) and Odegaard had 3 vs Wolves.
Its such a weird take that the team who literally spent the entire game having their wingers get in spaces to attack you guys didn't dribble at defenders when anyone who watched the game could see they clearly did when they were 1 v 1 but not when it was 1 v 2 or 3 like when you switched to a back 6 which I might add you slipped into from a 5-4-0 because of the threat of Savinho and to help Calafiori.
I can't honestly remember that many dribbles, did they dribble past and turn back or something? How about some overlaps, how about some 1-2s., How about some of your better shooters at least switching up with Dias and Kovacic? You had one more player in the second half and there was zero intricacy mate. If you think that's creative, it's not. Savinho had some good runs in the first, seemed to get the better a bit of our new guy at first. Martinelli had a couple good ones for us aa well.
I think you have a false impression that camping in the opponent's half is being adventurous. We do it too in many games throughout the season but that doesn't make us adventurous and creative either.
The first half of the game wasn't that bad. There was some free flowing football. Actually, I think we did ok except for the first 10 minutes until the red card effectively killed the game.
It was a good game between the two sides that will likely finish 1st and 2nd at the end of the season.
For the most part, there is no point in debating with Arsenal fans.
Ah yes we should have put Dias as a 9 and Haaland at CB so he'd be on the edge of the box to shoot. We tried a ton of 1-2's but again every time were crowded out because you guys were so solid, compact and had the numbers to block everything.
The fact you're trying to say the team whose CB's played further forward than your wingers were cautious is crazy.
Jesus man, you got a dodgy red card and then through some good defending, park the bus tactics and a little bit of luck got a point against a team who literally camped inside 30 yards of your goal and wracked up an xg of nearly 3.
Its insanity you guys refuse to accept the game for what it was and accept Arteta is not an attacking coach in bigger games.
In the first half you were super negative albeit trying to counter, till the equalizer, you had a chance to really go for it then as City were all over the place but still didn't go for it and both teams looked like shite for a bit. A City or a Liverpool etc.. would always go for the jugular there.
For the team that was pushing relentlessly, it seems they only had 5 shots on goal in the first half. The red card changed the nature of the the game.
I don't know if people are on the edge if their seats watching City play, but I am not. I can admit that Arsenal are not the Arsenal of the Wenger days, but somehow City and the like of Silva think they represent total football or something.
In general, football is more cynical these days.
I don't know if people are on the edge if their seats watching City play, but I am not. I can admit that Arsenal are not the Arsenal of the Wenger days, but somehow City and the like of Silva think they represent total football or something.
In general, football is more cynical these days.
Well, this is the first time you mentioned there waa a red card. It's like we were playing like that the whole game. You know we did actually score two goals right? You were not this crazy attacking force either during that time. 5 shots...i cannot remember anything of note after the free kick that hit the crossbar in that half.
Yes, Arteta is careful during big games, and so is City, they just do it differently. Liverpool is a bit more adventurous but also susceptible to bring carved open.
I never quite got it cause when they were good we were absolute shite but they're even more defensive than Liverpool fans. Its so weird.
It was a good point away from home in a game in which they parked the bus and got dominated (particularly after a dodgy red card and two sus goals for).
It wasn’t a red it was a yellow and a correct one at that. The fact that he was already on a yellow of course led to a red but sorry what was Oliver meant to do ?
It's not really defensive. I admit to the way they played. But somehow you think City with their infinite resources are the way it's supposed to be done. That's the part I object to.
They are no better, they should be chucking the kitchen sink against a ten man Arsenal at home, and for 45 minutes they were mostly ticking the ball sideways, just camped around our box.
City is a tactically very astute team, with massive depth, but particularly entertaining, they are not.
Clear yellow. If anything, the cheating cnuts were hard done by with the ref calling Walker over and then allowing a quick free kick. Top assist
You were time wasting in the first half, pretty much from the off and you scored pretty much the only time you entered our half, while Kyle Walker was out of position because he was talking to the ref. Literally had a man on the wing in 20 yards of space because Kyle wasn't fully back and took a freekick from the wrong spot. You are though very dangerous if borderline illegal in how you approach set pieces.
No one is saying you're a bad team, but I do think your manager is a coward and it will cost you. You aren't capable of Simone-ing your way in the big away games.
The hilarious part is if a weaker team did what you did yesterday at the Emirates you guys would be up in arms.
But in 4 away games this season you've had 5 shots vs City, 6 shots vs Atalanta, 7 vs Spurs, 9 vs Villa that's an average of less than 7 shots per game. Don't tell me thats not defensive football. Thats 6 shots less in all your away games than you gave up to City yesterday. By comparison in those 4 games you've given up 33, 8, 15 and 11 so 65 shots. Even excluding yesterdays game as an anomaly you've been outshot by Villa, Spurs and Atalanta (Brighton too but red card).
You guys are shot shy because you're so defensive.
By comparison City played 2 of the best teams in Europe in the last week and had 55 shots with an xg of over 5 between both games despite some terrible finishing.
The defensive style is not sustainable no matter how good you are defending the box cause eventually a ball falls to the right man, or a shot deflects in and these thing tend to fall in clumps, where nothing goes in for x games, than very little changes and nearly everything goes in for a spell. Its quite possible it works in cup games but over the league season you'll drop too many points.
To sum it up, because of Artetas caution you average less than 7 shots a game away from home so and have only had more shots than the opposition in one of your 6 games this season. You guys are too good to be serving up what you have this season.
I never said this at all in fact I went out of my way to use Liverpool and not City in all my examples of teams going for the win. (But in the game yesterday, only one team even first half went for it)
There's many ways to win football matches consistently but they are almost all played on the front foot when it comes to winning enough to win the title, which Arteta has drifted away from in tough games.
I 100% standby that if City are kicked out, Arteta's caution will cost you the title when you are clearly the best team. He has to back you to be good enough or not. What you are doing now won't last.
Sure, Liverpool under Klopp want to play on the front foot. But City ran rings around Liverpool in most of their matches.
It's just that the Liverpool front three have been so clinical that a single sniff at goal was enough for them to escape with a draw in several of their games, lending some respectability to the head to head record.
If a team doesn't have that sort of a front three, what choices do they have against City?
In any case, the same accusation was levelled at Klopp about how his caution caused a few draws in that 2018/19 season and led to City pipping them by a point. In a 95+ point season.
Yes, attack wise it is poor so far this season. We were poor laat season at the start...and we have more midfield troubles...ineffective Partey, missing Odegaard...I am not terribly worried however. We were doing quite well in the second half of last season. It will help to get Odegaard back. Arteta is defence first, and for me it is understandable because that's our main strength while yours is your midfield with a beast upfront. But your midfield allows you to strangle the game by the throat. Our midfielder is weak at the moment both on form and personnel, which is contributing to the defensive nature of our game. I disagree that relying on your defense at times will cost you.
It is not like this Arsenal team cannot attack or score goals. It is just struggling at the moment. We have few progressive passes and Martinelli has been struggling. We are in no way comparable to the Wenger years...i don't know how many times, I have said that.
The first half was quite even. I didn't really see the time wasting at that time but it does get a bit cynical when we are up against a top team. I would like to see us move to a stop the clock scenario myself.
It is not like this Arsenal team cannot attack or score goals. It is just struggling at the moment. We have few progressive passes and Martinelli has been struggling. We are in no way comparable to the Wenger years...i don't know how many times, I have said that.
The first half was quite even. I didn't really see the time wasting at that time but it does get a bit cynical when we are up against a top team. I would like to see us move to a stop the clock scenario myself.
And this is the thing. For all if this praising of Liverpool, they did not win a PL game at the Etihad either. In fact this is two years in a row we take points from them there.
Both Arsenal and City play ok games vs Pool. We just bring out the worst out if each other.
A truly remarkable feat. All it took to put you in that position was outright cheating for almost a decade prior. An XG over 5 in two games really takes some doing when you're able to ignore the rules that all the other clubs comply with.
Ah no, you've got me there, never been quoted about the charges when someone has no real rebuttal to my post before before, this is a first in Caf history. Good for you.
Sadly none of it changes the point of Arsenal being defensive to the point of cowardly away from home so far this season or the fact if it doesn't change they'll win nothing (again) regardless of what happens City which sucks for them and I like Arteta despite his cowardly big game tendencies. If I had to choose between them or Liverpool to win the league I'd choose them. But they haven't the stones to beat Liverpool in a title race.
If it seems like an unoriginal rebuttal then maybe take the hint and tone down the bragging about how superior your attacking metrics are when everyone knows you didn't get to that position legitimately.
Regarding the Arsenal vs Liverpool title race that you're alluding, Arsenal finished above them last season despite Liverpool putting everything they had into Klopp's farewell tour. Liverpool are now in a transitional season under a new manager after failing to back him in the transfer market. After City's inevitable points deduction takes effect in a few months, I'm sure Arsenal will have enough quality to finish above Liverpool again, despite their apparent lack of 'stones'.