[dpansheth]

You only have to go back literally a game week to see how Chelsea and Tuchel reacted to a red against Liverpool. Night and day.

Night: compen I’

My answer is, overall, I'm reasonably happy with Ole's tactics and changes - and very happy with the attitude he's instilled around the club and the squad we've been slowly assembling.

He gets some things wrong as regards team selections and subs, as all managers do. On this thread I'm just focusing on this one game - and, for me, most of the tactical decisions were wrong from the moment AWB was sent off. And I've said what I was hoping he'd do instead.

I'd love to know what the point was of your question?

I thought you were aligned to this bolded piece, and that's what I was referring to. How many times do you think Ole got it wrong as team selections & subs, was the gist of my original question.

 

[TheGame]

The lack of attacking intent whatsoever was poor. Probably could have left Sancho on one side as wing back and Dalot on the other with maybe Shaw as LCB.

We really needed pace up front as an outlet especially when down to 10 men and we had none.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Wasn’t able to watch the game. How were we playing up until the AWB red card?

The Ronaldo goal was a very good one from the highlights and any demonstration of growing chemistry between him and Bruno is great.

Not good. The usual dilly dallying in midfield. Everything happening in slow motion. While they looked dangerous on the break. The scoreline flattered us.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Think the problem we have given ourselves is we definitely need to win all our home games and this was the away game I hope we win. Just hope the others all take points off each other as well.

Young Boys will definitely take points of other teams, I'm fairly certain of that.

 

[UnsungHero]

Dust has settled a bit now...



And nope, I'm still fuming. Some of the worst game management (if you can even call it that) I've ever seen.

 

[Dve]

There are plenty of managers who can challenge with this squad.

Yeah, our league position is pathetic, really. Any real manager could do a lot better.

 

[Mickeza]

Sat with a couple of other United fans watching the match and as soon as Ronaldo and Bruno went off we all called it, disappointing because we see these mistakes so often in CL..

You called what? They were all over us and had already equalised. We couldn’t win the ball back. It’s genuinely perplexing how many people can’t grasp the fact that playing with 10 men AND Ronaldo with his defensive work was a key reason why we couldn’t get the ball. Once we went down to 10 this wasn’t a game for a 36 year old who doesn’t press.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Zidane in!! And then the meltdown when he benches Sancho for Martial

 

[IhabX7]

Yeah, our league position is pathetic, really. Any real manager could do a lot better.

We might be eighth next sunday.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Zidane in!! And then the meltdown when he benches Sancho for Martial

Not sure about Zidane. Just get the impression that he is a Real Madrid manager and nothing else.

 

[DRJosh]

It's a set back but you need these things to knock you back to reality and make you focus to go on to better things

What happened tonight could be a blessing in disguise come the end of the season.

The best players and teams are defined by how they respond to adversity

Finally a very considered and reasonable point.

Although I’m a tad concerned about Ole’s in-game management but will have to wait and see how this team evolves.

 

[SirScholes]

??? Lingard was put on because of his excellent work rate to try and apply pressure further up the pitch. We weren’t getting that from Ronaldo. I don’t think that’s a “park the bus’ approach when you are a man down. You could argue that Greenwood might have been a better option, but he doesn’t have the work rate of Lingard. Seriously, I think you fellas need to take a break from football for awhile. This is a painful loss, but this team won their league last season, they are pretty well coached. I think the outrage is a bit comical.

They won the Swiss league! The championship would be harder to win

we should of maintained an attacking presence, instead we simply let them have a go for 45 minutes. It’s pathetic management

 

[IhabX7]

You called what? They were all over us and had already equalised. We couldn’t win the ball back. It’s genuinely perplexing how many people can’t grasp the fact that playing with 10 men AND Ronaldo with his defensive work was a key reason why we couldn’t get the ball. Once we went down to 10 this wasn’t a game for a 36 year old who doesn’t press.

We were great after Ronaldo went off.

 

[Deery]

You called what? They were all over us and had already equalised. We couldn’t win the ball back. It’s genuinely perplexing how many people can’t grasp the fact that playing with 10 men AND Ronaldo with his defensive work was a key reason why we couldn’t get the ball. Once we went down to 10 this wasn’t a game for a 36 year old who doesn’t press.

Called what? Let me fecking tell you what losing the fecking game that’s what or did you fail to acknowledge that. Taking your two best players off for Lingard and Matic. Ronaldo the only goal threat on the pitch and Bruno the only creator..

 

[noodlehair]

Actually, going to a back 3 was smart. Young Boys generated most of their chances from the wings in the early going. After AWB went off, we played a 4-4-1 and They were deployed in a 4-3-3, with a natural advantage in midfield of 3v2. Going to a back 3 allows that third CB to step between the lines to defend that 3rd midfielder. Pressing further up the pitch in a 4-4-1 is madness because at that point the midfield advantage in space is very dangerous with 4 defenders.

The 5-3-1 actually worked pretty well. Shaw was in position to block the cross on the first goal but couldn’t close fast enough. He got a foot on it, but the bounce didn’t go our way. Before that, it was a lot of shots from distance… And by the way, VDB has terrible instincts in defending, you can see this around the 15min or so when he doesn’t step to take ball and forces Maguire to come out, which allowed a nice run into the box for YB.

I made this point in another post — sometimes we make the right decisions but a poor outcome. Criticize Ole for team preparedness, for footballing philosophy, fine. But to criticize him for his decisions in a very difficult situation where there may not be an easy answer is myopic.

Not sure if you watched the second half but what actually happened is we went to a back 3, and then got our arses completely handed to us with crosses coming freely into the box whenever Young Boys felt like it.

I don't understand how there is any logic in this iin the scenario of being a man down,, since teams who play 3 centrebacks aren't particularly better at not conceding goals when put under pressure as opposed to teams who don't, but that's kind of besides the point, as the point is that it would, very obviously, put us under more pressure.

When you are a man down, and set up with a back four, changing it to a back 5 means you are then two men down, outside of your defence, which means your defence is under much more pressure unless you change the entire system and tactics, at which point whether there are two or three centrebacks is probably not going to matter much since the whole team will be back anyway, desperately clearing the balll over and over.

There's no point trying to deploy some kind of clever tactic (that ignores the fact players aren't actually pieces on a chess board) if it means you can't even do the simple things like keep the ball away from your own penalty area.

If he did want to bring on an extra defender, then subbing off VDB or Fred was a definite "don't do this" move, as Pogba and Fernandes are not midfielders or possession players, they are attacking players who disappear into a void if you aren't set up to attack, and you can't play with 10 men and with one fecking midfielder and one forward, and expect to do anything other than hopelessly cling on. Maybe you do it for 5 minutes at the end when the players are knackered. Not for an entire bloody half.

If he had to do it he could have taken off Pogba or Fernandes at that point rather than have two players effectively doing nothing, and if he didn't want to take either off he shouldn't have brought the extra defender on and rendered them both pointless.

We can go on about hindsight but there's a common theme with Ole of watching the game and being able to see the mistakes he's making before or as they end up costing us. It is, for example, why this thread exists.

 

[Name Changed]

You called what? They were all over us and had already equalised. We couldn’t win the ball back. It’s genuinely perplexing how many people can’t grasp the fact that playing with 10 men AND Ronaldo with his defensive work was a key reason why we couldn’t get the ball. Once we went down to 10 this wasn’t a game for a 36 year old who doesn’t press.

You can't seem to grasp the fact that it was the manager's decision no to sub Ronaldo until it was too late.

 

[honirelandboy]

Finally a very considered and reasonable point.

Although I’m a tad concerned about Ole’s in-game management but will have to wait and see how this team evolves.

We've seen the same crap in the group stage last season, if Ole hasn't learned by now he never will. He literally crapped his pants when AWB was sent off.

 

[SirScholes]

Absolutely fine. I've got no issue with blaming Ole for things like the team (though everyone pre game said fine... some even said too many first teamers), the tactics or the subs.

But to ONLY moan about Ole is stupid? Those posters get on my fecking nerves.. it feels like they're almost happy we lost so they can say "I was right, Ole is shit"

AWB was an idiot, Lingard was an idiot... there's a few mistakes tonight.

If I was Lingard, I'd go and stand next to Ole in the post match and apologise. Two minutes, one fecking job (run hard, support the defence, don't do anything stupid).

If I was Ole I’d seriously question letting him near the team unless he signs a contract
He’s just not what we need, half decent player some nice YouTube clips, he’s no better than andros Townsend.
Seriously lingard and martial I just can’t get over these subs.

even with 10 men we should of posed a serious threat.
Signed players with a winning mentality such as Ronnie bruno sancho (all subbed off) so signed Varane
Next signing the club makes needs to be a manager with a winning mentality

 

[Banana Republic]

7 losses out of 11 Champions League games under Ole.

Subbing off Fred with just a few minutes to go and dropping Lingard back into Fred’s position, was fatal.

As shit as Fred can be, without him tonight we would have been seriously embarrassed.
He was doing all the defensive hard slog in midfield almost on his own, for most of the 2nd half.
Taking him off is what cost us in the end.

 

[SirScholes]

Not sure if you watched the second half but what actually happened is we went to a back 3, and then got our arses completely handed to us with crosses coming freely into the box whenever Young Boys felt like it.

I don't understand how there is any logic in this iin the scenario of being a man down,, since teams who play 3 centrebacks aren't particularly better at not conceding goals when put under pressure as opposed to teams who don't, but that's kind of besides the point, as the point is that it would, very obviously, put us under more pressure.

When you are a man down, and set up with a back four, changing it to a back 5 means you are then two men down, outside of your defence, which means your defence is under much more pressure unless you change the entire system and tactics, at which point whether there are two or three centrebacks is probably not going to matter much since the whole team will be back anyway, desperately clearing the balll over and over.

There's no point trying to deploy some kind of clever tactic (that ignores the fact players aren't actually pieces on a chess board) if it means you can't even do the simple things like keep the ball away from your own penalty area.

If he did want to bring on an extra defender, then subbing off VDB or Fred was a definite "don't do this" move, as Pogba and Fernandes are not midfielders or possession players, they are attacking players who disappear into a void if you aren't set up to attack, and you can't play with 10 men and with one fecking midfielder and one forward, and expect to do anything other than hopelessly cling on. Maybe you do it for 5 minutes at the end when the players are knackered. Not for an entire bloody half.

If he had to do it he could have taken off Pogba or Fernandes at that point rather than have two players effectively doing nothing, and if he didn't want to take either off he shouldn't have brought the extra defender on and rendered them both pointless.

We can go on about hindsight but there's a common theme with Ole of watching the game and being able to see the mistakes he's making before or as they end up costing us. It is, for example, why this thread exists.

You said everything I wanted to but I was too annoyed to type it all out
Very well said

 

[Name Changed]

Not sure if you watched the second half but what actually happened is we went to a back 3, and then got our arses completely handed to us with crosses coming freely into the box whenever Young Boys felt like it.

I don't understand how there is any logic in this iin the scenario of being a man down,, since teams who play 3 centrebacks aren't particularly better at not conceding goals when put under pressure as opposed to teams who don't, but that's kind of besides the point, as the point is that it would, very obviously, put us under more pressure.

When you are a man down, and set up with a back four, changing it to a back 5 means you are then two men down, outside of your defence, which means your defence is under much more pressure unless you change the entire system and tactics, at which point whether there are two or three centrebacks is probably not going to matter much since the whole team will be back anyway, desperately clearing the balll over and over.

There's no point trying to deploy some kind of clever tactic (that ignores the fact players aren't actually pieces on a chess board) if it means you can't even do the simple things like keep the ball away from your own penalty area.

If he did want to bring on an extra defender, then subbing off VDB or Fred was a definite "don't do this" move, as Pogba and Fernandes are not midfielders or possession players, they are attacking players who disappear into a void if you aren't set up to attack, and you can't play with 10 men and with one fecking midfielder and one forward, and expect to do anything other than hopelessly cling on. Maybe you do it for 5 minutes at the end when the players are knackered. Not for an entire bloody half.

If he had to do it he could have taken off Pogba or Fernandes at that point rather than have two players effectively doing nothing, and if he didn't want to take either off he shouldn't have brought the extra defender on and rendered them both pointless.

We can go on about hindsight but there's a common theme with Ole of watching the game and being able to see the mistakes he's making before or as they end up costing us. It is, for example, why this thread exists.

Completely agree with all of this.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

An even shitter result if Villarreal vs Atalanta ends in a draw. Knowing we were seconds away from a draw leaving the whole group level on points.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

Night: compen I’


I thought you were aligned to this bolded piece, and that's what I was referring to. How many times do you think Ole got it wrong as team selections & subs, was the gist of my original question.

Ah. I see.

It was just a general phrase, really. Just meaning that, while a fan of Ole and happy with him, there's obviously times he picks an XI, or makes a sub, or whatever, that I personally don't agree with. But I was stressing that wasn't a big criticism of Ole as that will apply to all managers, as most tactical decisions are subjective and people see them differently and no manager gets them all right.

The disclaimer was really just a way of saying my post was focusing just on the tactics / subs for today's game as I'm, generally, a fan of Ole and not waiting to criticise him.

It shouldn't be necessary, but social media isn't really a place for my middle of the road views and posts on threads like this tend to get boxed into 'for Ole' and 'Ole hater' - whereas I trying to establish my view was somewhere in the middle: I'm very happy with Ole as manager, but I will acknowledge if I feel he made poor decisions as I feel he did today after the sending off.

 

[Jacob]

Didn't catch the game but when I look at the subs I'm dumbfounded.

 

[AgentSmith]

We were fine, haven't threatened the goal directly but it felt like a relaxing game where we control / score a few.

We scored against the tide. Ronaldo completely shocked them with his very first touch.

Not good. The usual dilly dallying in midfield. Everything happening in slow motion. While they looked dangerous on the break. The scoreline flattered us.

Cheers guys. My brother’s reaction probably mirrors your reaction @Pogue Mahone the most. Tough day at the office with some of the more persistent issues rearing their ugly heads it seems.

The Atalanta Villarreal draw softens the blow but that attitude feels small time when considering the group we’re in.

 

[Ronaldo's Love Child]

Can I join the group meltdown please?

We didn't see much of him tonight but I am beginning to worry ever so slightly about Sancho.

I had hoped he would be a full on, positive, right sided attacker who takes on his man, gets crosses in etc and so far he's turning into the new Dan James.

What is the crack our wide players having acres of green grass to attack but instead cut inside into a crowd of players?

 

[always_hoping]

A draw in the Villarreal Atalanta game a decent result for United? One win each for Leipzig, PSG when they played each other didn't help Uniteds chances.

 

[Drifter]

I'm sure ole's tactic is just to choose a formation and hope that they are on form that day.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

An even shitter result if Villarreal vs Atalanta ends in a draw. Knowing we were seconds away from a draw leaving the whole group level on points.

I think the draw between Villareal and Atalanta is a good thing and provides a bit of damage limitation to our awful result. At least neither of the other two stronger teams have picked up 3 points on us and we're now only 1 point off 2nd place.

 

[owlo]

Positives from tonight :

If you're going to lose a game in that manner, this is probably the best game from our fixture list to do it in - it wasn't a league game,or a knockout game.

Better to lose this game now then in our 3rd or 4th game

Young Boys will take some points from other teams at home.

Our kit is very nice

Yep, agree with everything here. No real need to panic on this one. Of course the underlying issues are still concerning, but the game in isolation is no big deal to lose. If we can't qualify from the 5 remaining we don't deserve anything.

Agree with the bold too, I like it.

 

[eldoherz]

Still 15 points to play for, so we need not worry just yet.

However this could definitely be this years Istanbul if we end up needing the point a draw would have given us.

Mistakes happen and red cards happen. Hopefully today was our quota of both for the foreseeable. Afterall AWB isn't known for getting sent off and that was a once in a few seasons level howler by Jesse.

Glad we've got a run of games coming up as I'd hope that Ole and the lads will use tonight's nightmare as fuel for some dominant performances. Much better IMO than having a break to mull over such a crap result.

 

[PoTMS]

7 losses out of 11 Champions League games under Ole.

Subbing off Fred with just a few minutes to go and dropping Lingard back into Fred’s position, was fatal.

As shit as Fred can be, without him tonight we would have been seriously embarrassed.
He was doing all the defensive hard slog in midfield almost on his own, for most of the 2nd half.
Taking him off is what cost us in the end.

That is fecking awful in fairness.

 

[Dve]

Not good. The usual dilly dallying in midfield. Everything happening in slow motion. While they looked dangerous on the break. The scoreline flattered us.

I don´t agree with that. Typical first half where we had to be patient, but we looked well in control of the game. With 11 man on the pitch, I have no doubt we would have added a couple more goals in the second half. Disappointing though that we fell off so dramatically when Bissaka was sent off, but with Ronaldo and Pogba in the first press line, we did not have the mobility to fill the gap.

 

[Goku1983]

Sat with a couple of other United fans watching the match and as soon as Ronaldo and Bruno went off we all called it, disappointing because we see these mistakes so often in CL..

This is why Ole will never win anything resting Varane and subbing off CR7 and Bruno im sure no other manager would do that :/

 

[Mickeza]

You can't seem to grasp the fact that it was the manager's decision no to sub Ronaldo until it was too late.

But that isn’t what this forum is moaning about is it? They didn’t want him off at all. And it wasn’t too late - it was 1-1.

 

[Dve]

7 losses out of 11 Champions League games under Ole.

Subbing off Fred with just a few minutes to go and dropping Lingard back into Fred’s position, was fatal.

As shit as Fred can be, without him tonight we would have been seriously embarrassed.
He was doing all the defensive hard slog in midfield almost on his own, for most of the 2nd half.
Taking him off is what cost us in the end.

Fred ran himself empty in the end, mind.

 

[Godfather]

Not good. The usual dilly dallying in midfield. Everything happening in slow motion. While they looked dangerous on the break. The scoreline flattered us.

I agree with that. Quite irritated by some comments on here that thought we did well until the red. We really didn't.

 

[lysglimt]

It was a shit performance - but we would have won this game with 11 players. And with the draw in the other game - it's not the end of the world.

 

[Silas]

Any interviews?

 

[lysglimt]

Still 15 points to play for, so we need not worry just yet.

However this could definitely be this years Istanbul if we end up needing the point a draw would have given us.

Nah - because in this group we will qualify with 10 points. A win in our next game and chances are big we are top-2 again.