[Wheato]

Sevilla v RB Salzburg finished 1-1

We got away with it.

We will top this group.

Sleep well, Reds.

 

[Still ill]

Sevilla v RB Salzburg finished 1-1

We got away with it.

We will top this group.

Sleep well, Reds.

In fairness, we'll be doing well to top that group.

 

[PeteManic]

Ole's job is not to do anything too clever. It's not to go 4-4-1 and then three-at-the-back and then take off Ronaldo and Bruno. His job is to keep the players happy, say the right things at the right time, talk about the history of the club, and chat to Fergie three times a week.

He really exposed himself by trying to be Tuchel or Klopp or whoever.

In other news, Sancho will be gone back to Germany before you know it. He has been awful.

 

[the_cliff]

Sevilla v RB Salzburg finished 1-1

We got away with it.

We will top this group.

Sleep well, Reds.

 

[BorisManUtd]

Good thing I couldn't watch 2nd half so am not as frustrated as most of you here. It's a bad loss, a draw would be bad as well, it's a game and opponent where you target maximum 6 points. Villarreal becomes crucial game even though it'll only be second game.

 

[UnitedWA]

Ffs. I'm disappointed too but it's the Champions league, away from home on an artificial pitch. This crowd won the Swiss league by 31 points. And we had a man less for most of the match. How anyone who has watched us for the last 8 years can still come out with this shit baffles me.

No more excuses for Ole and this team, and games like this are only for taking 3 points. What baffles me is his tactics vs feckin Young Boys, and 0 shots after that red.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Meh down to 10 men, always going to be hard but it was just compounded by our inability to keep possesion of the ball and that we only seem to have one way of playing which is direct.

If we were a properly good team, we would have just maintained possesion and not let them anywhere near the ball. We just don’t have the ability to do that with 11 men never mind 10 so it is what it is. Poor errors, poor red card and questionable substitutions made.

 

[One Night Only]

If lingard didn't have a brain fart it would have been a decent away result with being down to 10 men for the majority of the match.

The one mistake has made it seem alot worse.

 

[spiriticon]

Just watched Jesse's fine moment on replay again. Feck that was a defence splitting pass to die for. A beaut.

 

[VidaRed]

I'm still seething.

 

[Red00012]

No it wasn't. It gave us firm control of our box, and cut off their ability to exploit the space between the full backs and the CBs. It only really slipped once, but that was enough. If we were going to play deep, it was the right thing to do, in my opinion.

It left Fred on his own , and it lead to unnecessary pressure .
I’ll say it again this was not PSG we were playing . Fred cost more than their whole team . We should have enough to see that game out with a 4 3-1-1 formation instead of resorting to 5 at the back

 

[Red00012]

I'm still seething.

+1

 

[Red00012]

False dawn #285.

It’s the hope that kills ya

 

[VidaRed]

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Shocking performance. Ole, with a squad like that, out of his depth.

 

[Nicoseth]

Disappointing but YB are not cannon fodder. A draw with 10 men would have been decent and we lost to a disastrous piece of play. Not to say that it was not a shitty night - we were proper awful at times and some of the subs were way off but I also think we should still be positive. Long way to go in the group - I'm sure we'll recover and we're top of the league.

 

[Betson]

Really disappointing how easily and quickly we went into full panic mode after the sending off, the same fragile mentality that has dogged the clubs for years now.

With the players we have we should have coped better , but we could not string a pass together or hold on to the ball for any length of time and defended poorly , just kept inviting pressure onto us until eventually we cracked , they also missed a few good opportunities.

Puts us on the back foot already in this supposedly easy group.

 

[VidaRed]

We'll be losing to old ladies next season.

 

[VidaRed]

Disappointing but YB are not cannon fodder. A draw with 10 men would have been decent and we lost to a disastrous piece of play. Not to say that it was not a shitty night - we were proper awful at times and some of the subs were way off but I also think we should still be positive. Long way to go in the group - I'm sure we'll recover and we're top of the league.

But they are. In the champions league level they're at the bottom of the pit.

 

[RedDevilzFox]

Just saw the game.

- I thought AWB was unfortunate, that doesn't usually see red in EPL but opposition player rolled around, tapped the ground and sold it. Fair play.
- Sancho was awful.
- DVDB was okay, but that's the thing with him, he is just okay.
- Jesse was, well, Jesse.

Hard to believe you can put out a starting eleven like that and lose to some team named YB with a budget probably 1/100th of ours. It would be one thing if we dominated and got unlucky, that wasn't even the case here.

 

[Che Guevara]

This is arguably the best Man Utd team since Fergie left. But as nice and likeable as Ole is, this job is just too big for him.

 

[Nicoseth]

But they are. In the champions league level they're at the bottom of the pit.

Didn't they beat Juve recently too? The days of shit teams being in the CL are long gone.

 

[croadyman]

Really disappointing how easily and quickly we went into full panic mode after the sending off, the same fragile mentality that has dogged the clubs for years now.

With the players we have we should have coped better , but we could not string a pass together or hold on to the ball for any length of time and defended poorly , just kept inviting pressure onto us until eventually we cracked , they also missed a few good opportunities.

Puts us on the back foot already in this supposedly easy group.

That happens when your coaching staff won't challenge the manager

 

[Ali Dia]

Meh down to 10 men, always going to be hard but it was just compounded by our inability to keep possesion of the ball and that we only seem to have one way of playing which is direct.

If we were a properly good team, we would have just maintained possesion and not let them anywhere near the ball. We just don’t have the ability to do that with 11 men never mind 10 so it is what it is. Poor errors, poor red card and questionable substitutions made.

Hopefully this is the kick in the ass they need to see that we need to actually control the midfield and not just stick 6 attackers together and hope they eventually run riot. We’ve been conceding chances to beat the band since the season started. Lucky to win against Wolves. We could have lost to Southampton on another day we could have won. The takeaway is we never had control of the games. They were always in danger of being snatched away from us. I can’t wait to go back to the boring McFred combo so we can set a secure platform for the rest of the players to have a go. Sick of watching teams waltz through us

 

[M15 Red.]

Not sure if you watched the second half but what actually happened is we went to a back 3, and then got our arses completely handed to us with crosses coming freely into the box whenever Young Boys felt like it.

I don't understand how there is any logic in this iin the scenario of being a man down,, since teams who play 3 centrebacks aren't particularly better at not conceding goals when put under pressure as opposed to teams who don't, but that's kind of besides the point, as the point is that it would, very obviously, put us under more pressure.

When you are a man down, and set up with a back four, changing it to a back 5 means you are then two men down, outside of your defence, which means your defence is under much more pressure unless you change the entire system and tactics, at which point whether there are two or three centrebacks is probably not going to matter much since the whole team will be back anyway, desperately clearing the balll over and over.

There's no point trying to deploy some kind of clever tactic (that ignores the fact players aren't actually pieces on a chess board) if it means you can't even do the simple things like keep the ball away from your own penalty area.

If he did want to bring on an extra defender, then subbing off VDB or Fred was a definite "don't do this" move, as Pogba and Fernandes are not midfielders or possession players, they are attacking players who disappear into a void if you aren't set up to attack, and you can't play with 10 men and with one fecking midfielder and one forward, and expect to do anything other than hopelessly cling on. Maybe you do it for 5 minutes at the end when the players are knackered. Not for an entire bloody half.

If he had to do it he could have taken off Pogba or Fernandes at that point rather than have two players effectively doing nothing, and if he didn't want to take either off he shouldn't have brought the extra defender on and rendered them both pointless.

We can go on about hindsight but there's a common theme with Ole of watching the game and being able to see the mistakes he's making before or as they end up costing us. It is, for example, why this thread exists.

Good post. Even if United had hung on for the draw, it was still a tactical shit show.

 

[croadyman]

This is arguably the best Man Utd team since Fergie left. But as nice and likeable as Ole is, this job is just too big for him.

Yeah way too big but some are old school and just refuse to see it

 

[Che Guevara]

Conte, Ancelotti, Mourinho and Rafa would absolutely destroy teams with this squad.

 

[VanDeBank]

Ronaldo should slap Ole, AWB and Lingard. What the feck was that?
Its like Istanbul Basaksehir all over again. FFS

It's not. We lost Istanbul because we left players unmarked and Ole/Maguire didn't correct it in an empty stadium. Players werent where they should be, like Shaw in the oppo box for set pieces, VDB always running forward when he shouldn't, etc.

Today we lost because of two brain farts.

Glad we lost. Should be a reality check to all concerned. Gutless tactic and subs. One good game 2 bad is our current rhythm.

Glad we lost!? Give your head a wobble.

 

[Ali Dia]

It's not. We lost Istanbul because we left players unmarked and Ole/Maguire didn't correct it in an empty stadium. Players werent where they should be, like Shaw in the oppo box for set pieces, VDB always running forward when he shouldn't, etc.

Today we lost because of two brain farts.

Glad we lost!? Give your head a wobble.

We certainly didn’t deserve to win. We didn’t even deserve the draw by the end. It was a skin of the teeth robbery style draw against a team we were 1/5 to beat. A reality check. I’d rather we learned something than snaked a draw. They deserved the win. They were far braver than us.

 

[Leanshig]

Worst part wasn't that we played a second string and lost the game, because that can be rationalised, worst part is we played pretty much our best XI (VDB, Greenwood and Lindelof aside) and got completely outplayed. It wasn't like we were making chances for fun either. Prior to AWBs sending off we had one chance, a world class ball from Fernandes and brilliant movement from Ronaldo that resulted in a goal. Our midfield is one of the weakest in the league honestly, I'd love to see the stats but I reckon Young Boys have at least 55% of the possession in total against us. Sending off isn't a rational enough excuse, we were frail before that.

 

[matherto]

Our awar performances will take us out of this group and into the Europa. Cowardly.

 

[SmashedHombre]

I like Ole and have defended him often, but that was one of the worst managerial performances I have ever seen.

 

[VanDeBank]

We certainly didn’t deserve to win. We didn’t even deserve the draw by the end. It was a skin of the teeth robbery style draw against a team we were 1/5 to beat. A reality check. I’d rather we learned something than snaked a draw. They deserved the win. They were far braver than us.

Wanting the deserving team to win is what a neutral wants.

As a United fan I take robberies.

I disagree with us being undeserving. If you get a result playing with 10 for 60 mins, it's always deserved.

There's not much to learn from losing. We lost because of two brain farts, it's that simple. Now those brain farts aren't excuses as to why we didn't create more, but they are undeniably why we lost.

If we'd robbed the game, it's still gets analyzed and the same things will or won't be learned from it much the same if the result is a loss.

Anyway, if you want us to lose, you're not a real fan. Sounds childish but there's no two ways about it.

 

[Dan_F]

Conte, Ancelotti, Mourinho and Rafa would absolutely destroy teams with this squad.

Of all the examples. He literally had half this team. On the pitch tonight: DDG, Dalot, Lindelof, Shaw, Matic, Fred, Pogba.

So yeah we have Ronaldo, Bruno and Sancho but Ronaldo wouldn’t have come to play under him and we’d have probably bought Willian or Perisic instead.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Actually, going to a back 3 was smart. Young Boys generated most of their chances from the wings in the early going. After AWB went off, we played a 4-4-1 and They were deployed in a 4-3-3, with a natural advantage in midfield of 3v2. Going to a back 3 allows that third CB to step between the lines to defend that 3rd midfielder. Pressing further up the pitch in a 4-4-1 is madness because at that point the midfield advantage in space is very dangerous with 4 defenders.

The 5-3-1 actually worked pretty well. Shaw was in position to block the cross on the first goal but couldn’t close fast enough. He got a foot on it, but the bounce didn’t go our way. Before that, it was a lot of shots from distance… And by the way, VDB has terrible instincts in defending, you can see this around the 15min or so when he doesn’t step to take ball and forces Maguire to come out, which allowed a nice run into the box for YB.

I made this point in another post — sometimes we make the right decisions but a poor outcome. Criticize Ole for team preparedness, for footballing philosophy, fine. But to criticize him for his decisions in a very difficult situation where there may not be an easy answer is myopic.

what the actual feck?

 

[Eyepopper]

I'm a big time Ole-in guy, I think he's done a great job, but this match really has me thinking.

OK, AVB gets sent off, not great but that can happen, but to come out in the second half, against minnows, and set up ultra defensive, employing a set up 5 at the back with Fred in front of them, and leave Ronaldo - who, let's face it, will score goals for fun once the rest of the team supply him but will do little else - on his own?

What's the point? Get Matic on to screen the defence and someone with pace up top to give a counter attacking outlet.

To throw on Jesse Lingard, to provide legs, when we we were already happy to concede possession it nuts.

OK, as much as I want Ole to succeed, this result is fully on him.

 

[Ali Dia]

Wanting the deserving team to win is what a neutral wants.

As a United fan I take robberies.

I disagree with us being undeserving. If you get a result playing with 10 for 60 mins, it's always deserved.

There's not much to learn from losing. We lost because of two brain farts, it's that simple. Now those brain farts aren't excuses as to why we didn't create more, but they are undeniably why we lost.

If we'd robbed the game, it's still gets analyzed and the same things will or won't be learned from it much the same if the result is a loss.

Anyway, if you want us to lose, you're not a real fan. Sounds childish but there's no two ways about it.

I want us to tighten up and play with more aggression and control. We’ve been playing like cowboys for the last few games, it’s not sustainable. If we get pressed at all we crumble and get cut straight though. It’s all mouth and no trousers. It’s good to finally recognise and get punished for having a soft core. It’s good to know that forcing names into a lineup might work against a parked bus but it won’t win out against a decent aggressive confident and organised side. It’s better to figure this out early in the season and in a competition we can still easily qualify in than trying the exact same approach against West Ham and barely fluking a draw or taking a bad beating in the league. I’m a true fan I can assure you. For a long time too.

I was happy we snatched a win at Wolves because it was important and we were lucky to still be in the game. at the end of the day they just couldn’t score but these lads were fully all over us tonight from 35 to 95 and they were the heaviest undergdogs in Europe this evening and we didn’t know what to do with them. Sometimes an embarrassing loss is the only way to learn and go forward.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

The 5-3-1 actually worked pretty well. Shaw was in position to block the cross on the first goal but couldn’t close fast enough.

The formation was a disaster because you had one actual midfielder. Calling it a 5-3-1 is generous even; it'd be better described as 5-1-2-1.

Shaw was out of position because Maguire had to step up because again, there is only one central midfielder. Shaw then has to tuck in, resulting in literally 30% of your own final third being completely unoccupied.

Putting on another centre half makes no sense when they are stuck behind a non-existent midfield. An extra body in the box is meaningless when you have no means to control the ball after recovering it.

 

[OrcaFat]

We did fine with 11 men, struggled with 10. Away in Europe that’s not shocking. But again we lacked a leader in CM. Put Roy Keane in there and we see that out for a 1-0 (if he doesn’t get sent off as well).

 

[Offside]

That reminded me of two games.

The first was the 2-1 defeat to Bayern Munich in 2010 where they equalised with a lucky goal, then we gave them a late winner with an inexplicable late error.

The second was the 2-1 defeat to PSV in 2015 where we went 1-0 up in our opening game, were cruising and then the game changed when Shaw got injured.

Both games I was seething long into the night as I am now.