[Fully Fledged]

Pathetic. Only consolation I can take is that SAF looked seething. Think today was the final chance for LVG to really give it his all, ten men or not that was one of the most cowardly performances i've ever seen from us. Subs summed up LVG.

Special mention for Mike Dean who is always desperate to do that to us.

LVG likes to talk about how his teams don't rely on one player, This is fine if you can keep 11 on the pitch but i've never seen a system so susceptible to a red card. The big difference for me is when we actually had a few stars we could use a bit of individual brillance to get ourselves out of situations like this. The moment Mata went the game was done.

I thought that was our first red card in the league this season. Am I wrong?

 

[Giant Midget]

I thought that was our first red card in the league this season. Am I wrong?

I think he means that our system is so reliant on having 11 men that we couldn't even muster a single shot on goal with 10. Our play completely crumbled.

 

[Fully Fledged]

1-0 down, 10 men and chasing the game what does LVG do? Subs on a CDM and a CB.. philosophy!

This is my biggest problem today. Yes Mata takes a lot of the blame for his stupidity but those substitutions were mind-boggling.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Little reminder we need a new manager going forward, no harm.

We've some very average players. Darmain, Carrick and Lingard are midtable right now.

 

[Fully Fledged]

I think he means that our system is so reliant on having 11 men that we couldn't even muster a single shot on goal with 10. Our play completely crumbled.

Ah ok I though he meant that our team are always losing players to red cards. My bad.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Little reminder we need a new manager going forward, no harm.

We've some very average players. Darmain, Carrick and Lingard are midtable right now.

Maybe WBA or Everton will take Carrick, they like our players.

 

[Meller]

Don't see many mentions in this thread but Michael Carrick, wow. He's simply done on this level and when LvG the mastermind took off Herrera instead I was just staring in to the screen in disbelief. Kind of, after all it's LvG.

Also the decision to keep Rashford on the pitch for 75 minutes. Please just get rid of the fraud now. LvG that is, not Rashford, he's decent.

 

[MarkC]

I think he means that our system is so reliant on having 11 men that we couldn't even muster a single shot on goal with 10. Our play completely crumbled.

Exactly this. We use a system where it is all about finding the spare man and working the ball until we can create that space for somebody. Unfortunately when a man down the chances of that happening against a team willing to put in a shift defensively is slim to none without relying on individual brilliance. Martial almost pulled that off but nobody else is really capable, perhaps Memphis who we waited until the 77th minute to bring on.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Maybe WBA or Everton will take Carrick, they like our players.

Think there's talk of Newcastle.

 

[The red panther]

Little reminder we need a new manager going forward, no harm.

We've some very average players. Darmain, Carrick and Lingard are midtable right now.

Darmian and Lingard really need to be regarded as reserve players and Carrick should not get a new contract, if ever a player looked finished, it is him.

We need a new manager and it has to be someone that can build with the young players that we have in the squad because Rashford, Martial, Memphis, Shaw, Mensah etc, they are the only good thing about this club right now. We have to invest in a proper CB partner for Smalling, a energtic midfielder with good distribution, a senior striker that can really play the target man role and a good right winger. Go back to playing a 4-4-2 system and start building up from the roots.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Think there's talk of Newcastle.

Would want to go there if they get relegated? Would be nice for him to play for the club he supports.

 

[bugmat]

back to the golden days of December - outran, out-thought (thanks Mata), outmuscled, outhustled. Only Smalling really showed fight. Can't blame the young lads really, but LvG's sub (taking off the only creative player after losing Mata) meant we were never going to score. This was a rare game for a wild Fellaini to appear to give us some muscle and a target to aim all those punts we played at and we didn't see him..all the times we didn't need him and he was played. This is why LvG still needs to go. The signs were there since Watford tbf.

 

[Dans]

The changes meant we lost a lot of that zest of the younger or less frequently played players. We missed Varela and his forward runs which often end up in more than a blocked cross which seems to be the case almost everytime Darmian goes forward. I was disappointed that Rojo played too. And how slow his Blind?

 

[Lentwood]

The whole point of the possession based philosophy is that you have to have the confidence and ability to keep the ball in tight areas and build from the back to draw the oopposition out.

We have neither

I counted over 30 aimless long balls that wouldn't have looked out of place in Sunday league.

 

[Natener]

I knew we weren't winning this once Mata got sent off, but even before his dismissal, we were shit. To be fair, I was thinking we could win the game prior to the dismissal mostly because of wishful thinking. I wrote a preview for the game for a website this morning and when I had a look at the stats/recent form etc., I realised just how fecking pointless we are. We had only won one of our last 6 away games in the league and that was against Liverpool where I still don't know how we managed to pull off the win.

Correct. We weren't particularly more threatening than West Brom was in the first 20min. If that was any indication of our play for the rest of the game with the way the team was set up, then probably the game would have finished 0-0. Manchester United, playing for a draw or at best a narrow win against West Brom. I find it absolutely nauseating.

 

[Insanity]

back to the golden days of December - outran, out-thought (thanks Mata), outmuscled, outhustled. Only Smalling really showed fight. Can't blame the young lads really, but LvG's sub (taking off the only creative player after losing Mata) meant we were never going to score. This was a rare game for a wild Fellaini to appear to give us some muscle and a target to aim all those punts we played at and we didn't see him..all the times we didn't need him and he was played. This is why LvG still needs to go. The signs were there since Watford tbf.

I was in utter disbelief when Chester didn't enter the pitch even in the 81st minute and it was Menses who replaced Darmian. Like you said, this was one game where we could have used his awkwardness and hold up play, and he sits on the bench. Probably because of match rhythm or some shit. But there was a time when Nick Powell came on for Mata after being a year out, so...

There is no rhyme or rhythm to anything this man does. He stumbles upon things, which work for a while and then everything turns to the same shit again.

It's astonishing that he is still here.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

The whole point of the possession based philosophy is that you have to have the confidence and ability to keep the ball in tight areas and build from the back to draw the oopposition out.

We have neither

I counted over 30 aimless long balls that wouldn't have looked out of place in Sunday league.

Why has he changed our style of play yet again? Why not get them under pressure, press them back. Instead it was back to the old cautious passing, slow movement. That is him, not the players. They would much prefer the style we played against Arsenal. You could see the fun they were having. He won't take the blame though.

 

[Siorac]

Almost everyone were

Yeah but Blind was basically comic relief in this game. He was hilariously awful against a team that seemed reluctant to attack at all for the first hour or so. I'm genuinely impressed by how inept he was in the face of very little threat.

 

[anant]

TBH, I would have blamed the ref had it stayed 0-0, I might have bashed Mata for the decision, but IMHO it wasn't worthy of 2nd yellow.
But look at it this way: We are playing with 10 men vs Pulis side, who still didnt attack after the red. But we too didnt. I think the herrera freekick and the rashford shot off target were our only attempts. So instead of bringing someone to attack, we removed a creative player and got in Schneiderlin, who To be fair should have started instead of Carrick. We then went a goal down and removed Rashford, who was decent and got in Depay, who again should have started. But this is where I lost it. 10 minutes to go 1-0 down, LVG makes a defensive sub. That was when the blame shifted from Mata/ref to LVG. Had he got in Fellaini and played that long ball crap, I would have been satisfied, 352 again fine, but Fosu Mensah for Darmian is senseless.
I wont blame the starting XI as I feel he had europa league in mind when picking the lineup, but no Januzaj or Pereira in subs was something that no one would have been comfortable with.
Rojo is primarily a CB, Blind is better LB, why not play them accordingly! Blind had an awful game vs Watford, wasnt having a great game, if LVG wanted he could have switched them but that was against his ego.
LVG needs to get his act together if he wants a respectful send-off

 

[Mr Anderson]

Frustrating as hell. Mata was stupid, we played as poor if not worse than against Watford (we tend to learn feck all from previous games) Memphis hitting form and was left on the bench till late and that fecker Lingard gets to stay on despite being sub standard for quite a few games now. Varela also impressive lately and also dropped for Darmian. We just set up wrong from the off, set up very defensively really. Even 2 of our 3 our subs were defensive. Back to reality with no major attempts on target.

Ten men didn't help but we just got everything wrong as usual. 4 times we have fudged up any chance to reclaiming a top 4 fight. Just bloody ridiculous at this stage.

I'm just bulling now, livid at our simple cock ups.

 

[Yorkeontop]

I guess this is what it's like to support a team that continually teases you into believing something good is taking shape.

 

[Moriarty]

Frustrating as hell. Mata was stupid, we played as poor if not worse than against Watford (we tend to learn feck all from previous games) Memphis hitting form and was left on the bench till late and that fecker Lingard gets to stay on despite being sub standard for quite a few games now. Varela also impressive lately and also dropped for Darmian. We just set up wrong from the off, set up very defensively really. Even 2 of our 3 our subs were defensive. Back to reality with no major attempts on target.

Ten men didn't help but we just got everything wrong as usual. 4 times we have fudged up any chance to reclaiming a top 4 fight. Just bloody ridiculous at this stage.

I'm just bulling now, livid at our simple cock ups.

I think Van Gaal picks his teams by playing a version of pin the tail on the donkey. He puts photos of his players on the wall, Giggs blindfolds him, and he just points. What had Varela done to get dropped, or Memphis? Darmian hasn't played well since September and Blind has been struggling for a while too. He takes Herrera off and puts on Schneiderlin for reasons that are totally unclear. Down to 10, so take off your only attacking midfielder. That makes sense.

 

[Danny1982]

Painful loss. We were this close from breaking the premier league record for the longest winning streak.

 

[Mr Anderson]

I think Van Gaal picks his teams by playing a version of pin the tail on the donkey. He puts photos of his players on the wall, Giggs blindfolds him, and he just points. What had Varela done to get dropped, or Memphis? Darmian hasn't played well since September and Blind has been struggling for a while too. He takes Herrera off and puts on Schneiderlin for reasons that are totally unclear. Down to 10, so take off your only attacking midfielder. That makes sense.

Haha, that would explain a lot

It's just painful at this stage. One step forward, 4 steps back. Grrrrr

 

[Kostur]

Credit where it's due, away fans were fantastic as per usual. LVG's can feck off.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

They weren't sent off after 25 minutes though.

Arsenal, Liverpool and Southampton actually managed to come from behind in their games - and had less time to do it.

We never looked like scoring... and we went behind without much of a fight. I mean, it's not like WBA were putting us under the kosh or anything... they allowed us to be comfortable within the game, yet we did bugger all with it.

 

[Roosney]

I blame Mata.
I blame some weak performances, especially the first teamers.
I blame LVG.
But most of all, I blame this guy:

To my defense I had to cook the dish after the game. The veal meatballs were 10/10 by the way. The sauce had too much tahini but was ok still.

 

[Random Task]

I was gonna write an essay, but then I thought what's the fecking point.

We were, for lack of a better word, dogshit with a capital DOGSHITE. Yeah, so, normality has insued, it was indeed yet another false dawn, we are back in our place. At least top 10 is still an option.

I'm going to get drunk - halfway there as it is.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

LvG has been basking in the glory of the last 4 games and his genius in playing the kids. Yet it was all built on shifting sands. Back to the old philosophy and instead of keeping that energy in the side he takes it out.

 

[montpelier]

Not a lot happening before the daft but obvious red card. Poor afterwards but will bounce back with avengeance on Thursday I'm sure.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

Arsenal, Liverpool and Southampton actually managed to come from behind in their games - and had less time to do it.

We never looked like scoring... and we went behind without much of a fight. I mean, it's not like WBA were putting us under the kosh or anything... they allowed us to be comfortable within the game, yet we did bugger all with it.

Arsenal were 1 up when the sending off happened so lost 2-1 after the red. Liverpool had one gift and one dodgy pen. You can't really compare the games.

It's raw now I know, I'm gutted as well but don't u think looking back in a year or whatever you'll think we were doomed after the red card 25mins in?

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Arsenal were 1 up when the sending off happened so lost 2-1 after the red. Liverpool had one gift and one dodgy pen. You can't really compare the games.

It's raw now I know, I'm gutted as well but don't u think looking back in a year or whatever you'll think we were doomed after the red card 25mins in?

No... Same way I don't think Chris Smalling doomed us to defeat against City... Or Nani/the ref doomed us against Madrid... Both games where we actually did something despite having 10 men.

 

[entropy]

After the ecstasy of yesterday's UFC, I have come crashing back down to earth. fecking united. Could have been on Arsenal's heels but choked like a hooker on her first night. Same old United under LVG. One step forward and 2 giant leaps back. And the sad thing is, I'm not even surprised because I had a feeling we'd be back to this after the lucky win against Watford.

 

[Gerald G]

It is all Mata's fault but why can't we beat these lower half sides?
It's like we have the mentality of a small team. We can get ourselves up for a game vs the better sides and usually perform to a decent level, but against the teams we should - we are terrible.

 

[marlowe78]

Why has he changed our style of play yet again? Why not get them under pressure, press them back. Instead it was back to the old cautious passing, slow movement. That is him, not the players. They would much prefer the style we played against Arsenal. You could see the fun they were having. He won't take the blame though.

He sees a point he needs to prove, what I don't know. You could see after the Watford game when he made that snide comment about the reporters writing him off that he was ready to switch back into full delusion mode, this after getting another lucky home win against a midtable side. He seems to only play pragmatic when he's up against it, then after we win a few games he switches back to this ideology of his, even though it looks he could manage in the PL for another 50 years and get nowhere with it.

 

[Red Dreams]

Both Arsenal and Liverpool were a man short and adjusted. We looked lost. The key difference. This is where a top manager thinks on his feet. Perhaps van Gaal should have dived like he did v Arsenal.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Both Arsenal and Liverpool were a man short and adjusted. We looked lost. The key difference. This is where a top manager thinks on his feet. Perhaps van Gaal should have dived like he did v Arsenal.

Most managers would make a change straight away after the sending off. He sat there and did nothing. Which left a poor Carrick not doing his job properly and Herrera trying to do everything. I would have either hauled off Carrick and put Morgan on, which it should have been from the start, or take Lingard off and brought Morgan on. Lingard actually did better second half, but to leave Carrick on who was a liability and have no creative midfielder did not bode well. He is not proactive at all, he has his team set out, his tactics set out and will not change them during the game.

 

[Red Dreams]

Most managers would make a change straight away after the sending off. He sat there and did nothing. Which left a poor Carrick not doing his job properly and Herrera trying to do everything. I would have either hauled off Carrick and put Morgan on, which it should have been from the start, or take Lingard off and brought Morgan on. Lingard actually did better second half, but to leave Carrick on who was a liability and have no creative midfielder did not bode well. He is not proactive at all, he has his team set out, his tactics set out and will not change them during the game.

goes to the heart of the issue. pas pass pass...and hope. Anyways. We don't have too long to wait. This season really has taken a few more years off my life.

 

[nick2004]

I blame Mata.
I blame some weak performances, especially the first teamers.
I blame LVG.
But most of all, I blame this guy:

Finally! Someone found the real reason we are failing! It's meatballs! I knew it!

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Anyone managed to work out why Blind wasn't booked for attempting to kick the ball and kicking someone in the head, whilst Mata was booked for attempting to kick the ball and kicking someone in the shin?