[Telsim]

A loss that is a win. Pointless cup with a two legged semi-final in the busiest period of the year. No, thanks.

 

[Wolfbot]

Without the horrible mistakes from Forster it could have been a disastrous loss for us. What a poor performance again. I wonder how many awful performances Amorim needs to notice that his tactics don't work at all.

Within context though, Spurs looked unlikely to score without horrible mistakes from us. Every one of their four goals was the result of amateur looking defending or goalkeeping.

Then our goals were pretty much all down to poor play from their goalkeeper so I wouldn't claim we deserved to win in any capacity.

On the contrary, the overall performance wasn't poor. We controlled the play for much of the game and pressed Spurs really well which shows his tactics are working.

It's super frustrating when individual errors from the defence/keeper and a lack of quality from the front players mean that all that good work is for nought. I don't think it's fair to say that it was an overall poor performance and the tactics don't work though.

Really strange game. Seven goals, but without the amateur hour stuff on both sides it's probably a nil-nil or one-nil either way game.

 

[RedIan]

We would have been beaten by Liverpool over two legs in the next round so glad we are out.

 

[Denis79]

Didn't deserve to lose that.

 

[Godfather]

Without the horrible mistakes from Forster it could have been a disastrous loss for us. What a poor performance again. I wonder how many awful performances Amorim needs to notice that his tactics don't work at all.

What an incredibly odd take given that we were comfortably the better side

 

[GiveItToGi...nowait]

We could have won if Forster made a couple more errors. Is that our game plan?

Forced errors

 

[ArbeitervonWien]

Not sure how their 4th goal could count. You are not allowed to grab the keepers arm while he tries to catch a ball, are you?

Shit keeping anyway, but still.

 

[Kaos]

We could have won if Forster made a couple more errors. Is that our game plan?

Was Bayindir dropping a few clangers also in our gameplan? At least with Forster they were forced errors on the back of relentless pressing from the front. On the balance of things - possession, chances, xG we looked the more likely team to win.

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

Without the horrible mistakes from Forster it could have been a disastrous loss for us. What a poor performance again. I wonder how many awful performances Amorim needs to notice that his tactics don't work at all.

Utter nonsense.

 

[Born2Lose]

A loss, but such a difference since the last time we played Spurs.

The improvements are evident, the problem is Amorim needs some signings to key positions to really move things forward.

 

[Hughie77]

I'd agree with fellow poster, a lose that's a win, don't need a 2 legged semi. Amorin needs these guys on the training pitch. Missed chances and Errors the other end, feel sorry a little bit for GK I think that was a foul the 4th goal no VAR so no checks , he pushes his hand down and you cannot touch GK in 6yrd Box .
They controlled game for large periods which was good.. Sundays game is a bugger one .

 

[Wazzaduke33]

Ruben Amorim
"We cannot think in that way that winning silverware makes everything OK. It will be a long way, we are improving, our goal is to win the Premier League, how long it will take I don't know."

Is that a dig at ETH?

Don’t think it’s a dig at ETH but it’s really good he’s talking like that, winning knock out trophies like the EFL or FA Cup is a great day out and not to be sniffed at.

But building a consistent and reliable team that is edging towards competing for the title every year is where it needs to be . . .

 

[Bastian]

I agree. We're in the honeymoon period with Amorim, so any and all criticism is pounced on by posters caught up in the hype, but a mistake is a mistake whether it's made after 5 games or 500 games.

Obviously there are mitigating circumstances. Amorim wants to look at some players, since he's had to take over mid-seaeon. He also wants to make sure we have fresh legs for the Christmas period and we've had bad injuries over the last 24-months. So all that has to be factored in.

However, as you say, we were on a high after the City game and Spurs are there for the taking. This game, lest we forget, was a Quarter Final.

Rotation I can understand, but what's the point in fielding Eriksen, who will leave on a free at the end of the season? What's the point in swapping the goalkeepers? What's the point in playing Lindelof and then Evans? What's the point in resting Mainoo and Amad, who are both young lads?

Personally, I don't mind resting players for the League Cup, it should never be a primary target...BUT, the caveat to that is, if you're going to do it, don't bring in the same old failures - use it to test the better youth team players. See how they do mixed in with 7 or 8 regular starters.

That team last night was too weak, unnecessarily weak.

Absolutely, all of that.

 

[gulli_G]

We have too many games and Amorim used 3rd choice players along with few first teamers.

That's 2 less matches and few extra valuable actual training sessions with the team gained.

Plus we nearly drewz which shows Ruben has good game management.

 

[Betson]

I'd agree with fellow poster, a lose that's a win, don't need a 2 legged semi. Amorin needs these guys on the training pitch. Missed chances and Errors the other end, feel sorry a little bit for GK I think that was a foul the 4th goal no VAR so no checks , he pushes his hand down and you cannot touch GK in 6yrd Box .
They controlled game for large periods which was good.. Sundays game is a bugger one .

Thing is can we come down enough from this massive high of running a shambolic Spurs outfit close in a knockout match, so that we are ready for Sunday.

 

[CoopersDream]

I thought overall a very promising performance. We need to create more ourselves though. But I like what I see as of yet.

 

[padzilla]

I would say our defence is shocking. We were the better team for most of that game but still lost thanks to some atrocious decision making at the back. Up front we looked pretty toothless, I am not sure what Hojlund is bringing, it's not the first time we've looked much better when he's off the pitch.

 

[Ole'sgunnarwin]

I would say our defence is shocking. We were the better team for most of that game but still lost thanks to some atrocious decision making at the back. Up front we looked pretty toothless, I am not sure what Hojlund is bringing, it's not the first time we've looked much better when he's off the pitch.

While everyone seems quite positive about everything, this is is where I am. Defense is still a shambles and attack is pretty poor. Not a great combination. Not blaming Amorin at all but he has a massive job on his hands.

 

[padzilla]

While everyone seems quite positive about everything, this is is where I am. Defense is still a shambles and attack is pretty poor. Not a great combination. Not blaming Amorin at all but he has a massive job on his hands.

Absolutely, Amorim has a huge task on his hands. Our keeper was at fault for two goals, even though equal blame should be levelled at the defenders who were slow to react allowing Solenke a tap in, if he's marked he doesn't get the freedom to do that.

Martinez has been dire since his first season, and seems to be more interested in fronting up to people and making ridiculous tackles than being an actual defender. Flicking the ball back into the danger area with the outside of his boot when trying to clear it is casual lazy amateur stuff, he deserves as much blame as Bayinder for the result last night.

Their keeper was also at fault for two goals - if you take those four goals, from keeper errors, out of the equation then Spurs still win a game they were largely second best in.

In fact, our three goals last night were two gifts from the keeper and a 95th minute injury time consolation when the game was over anyway. It's not remotely good enough, thankfully Amorim seems the right kind of person to turn it around, you can already see us being more comfortable in possession and not being such a reactive team.

 

[Lentwood]

I would say our defence is shocking. We were the better team for most of that game but still lost thanks to some atrocious decision making at the back. Up front we looked pretty toothless, I am not sure what Hojlund is bringing, it's not the first time we've looked much better when he's off the pitch.

Martinez was shocking and Evans / Lindelof shouldn't be on the pitch unless there's literally nobody else.

Move Martinez out in Summer, bring in Branthwaite or similar, and it'll be a strong unit.

 

[padzilla]

Martinez was shocking and Evans / Lindelof shouldn't be on the pitch unless there's literally nobody else.

Move Martinez out in Summer, bring in Branthwaite or similar, and it'll be a strong unit.

Yeah, agree with that. Martinez is so bad he's making Maguire look like Baresi in comparison.

 

[yamo123x]

Thought we missed a leader at the back like De ligt or Maguire.
Poor start to the 2nd half killed us but we showed some spirit once we made the subs

Time for Lindelof to go, just as bad as Mount for injuries. Martinez has a poor night, Yorro suspect at times but steady.
Anthony failed the audition again, and Hojlund was atrocious, never in the right place and lost the physical battle to the diminutive Archie Gray, would rather Zirkee start tbh.

 

[MalaysianRed7]

I just don’t see how people who don’t want VAR in our game can justify it. Bergvall got away with blatant cheating which ultimately knocked us out last night. Isn’t it better to wait three minutes for the right decision to be made that would have given us 180 as a reward in the semis?

 

[Hoof the ball]

 

[Maticmaker]

An old fashioned high scoring encounter of Spurs v United, thrills, spills and lots of goals.
No VAR to hold things up, blink and you missed it.
You could hear a pin drop after Jonny Evans netted with a couple of minutes of extra time left.
Two goalkeeping errors on both sides, and 7 goals overall, we lost but I enjoyed the game.

Some 'cameo' performances from Eriksen, Amad, and United's MOTM a 'toss up' between Mazraiou and Ugarte

An instant 'classic'

 

[IRN-BRUno]

Another game where a lot of it is encouraging but ultimately let down by stupid errors and a lack of threat in the final third. Clear to see now why Ten Hag was reluctant to use Bayindir, feel for him but there's no excuses for a performance like that. Even the last goal he needs to be far stronger, I don't think VAR would have taken much of a look at it.

Always disappointing to get knocked out but having a couple of midweek rests can't be a bad thing. Ratcliffe will be pleased he can save a few quid not turning the floodlights on for the semi-final as well.

 

[noodlehair]

I agree. We're in the honeymoon period with Amorim, so any and all criticism is pounced on by posters caught up in the hype, but a mistake is a mistake whether it's made after 5 games or 500 games.

Obviously there are mitigating circumstances. Amorim wants to look at some players, since he's had to take over mid-seaeon. He also wants to make sure we have fresh legs for the Christmas period and we've had bad injuries over the last 24-months. So all that has to be factored in.

However, as you say, we were on a high after the City game and Spurs are there for the taking. This game, lest we forget, was a Quarter Final.

Rotation I can understand, but what's the point in fielding Eriksen, who will leave on a free at the end of the season? What's the point in swapping the goalkeepers? What's the point in playing Lindelof and then Evans? What's the point in resting Mainoo and Amad, who are both young lads?

Personally, I don't mind resting players for the League Cup, it should never be a primary target...BUT, the caveat to that is, if you're going to do it, don't bring in the same old failures - use it to test the better youth team players. See how they do mixed in with 7 or 8 regular starters.

That team last night was too weak, unnecessarily weak.

The bigger issues for me is he's made a public stance with Rashford and Garnacho that he wont accept low standards.

Then less than a week later he is dropping Amad and Maguire/De Ligt to play Antony, Evans and Lindelof.

I think that's not just an error, its a big big error. Yes someone like Evans might have a better attitude in training, and in general, but he wouldn't play for any other Premier League team because he isn't up to the required level physically...and when you talk about standards, that's what everyone, including the players you are trying to enforce them on, is going to primarily look at.

I get its a league cup game and in a different circumstance that's fine, but you have to take it with the context which is that we've just made a big public fuss about our players and publicly shamed one of the most high profile ones, in order to send a message that we don't accept low standards anymore...then a few days later we put on a circus act and willingly send the clowns into the arena.

He should have gone with the strongest 11 last night or at the very least picked people who aren't below the basic levels for a professional PL footballer.

That might be harsh on the players mentioned but we either want to be a good team or a charity case, and we're either imposing standards on the whole team, for every game, or we're imposing them just on Marcus Rashford and not on anyone else. There isn't really an inbetween you can flit around in because as soon as you do that the message is inconsistent and just invites players to think they or their mate is being singled out.

 

[padzilla]

The bigger issues for me is he's made a public stance with Rashford and Garnacho that he wont accept low standards.

Then less than a week later he is dropping Amad and Maguire/De Ligt to play Antony, Evans and Lindelof.

I think that's not just an error, its a big big error. Yes someone like Evans might have a better attitude in training, and in general, but he wouldn't play for any other Premier League team because he isn't up to the required level physically...and when you talk about standards, that's what everyone, including the players you are trying to enforce them on, is going to primarily look at.

I get its a league cup game and in a different circumstance that's fine, but you have to take it with the context which is that we've just made a big public fuss about our players and publicly shamed one of the most high profile ones, in order to send a message that we don't accept low standards anymore...then a few days later we put on a circus act and willingly send the clowns into the arena.

He should have gone with the strongest 11 last night or at the very least picked people who aren't below the basic levels for a professional PL footballer.

That might be harsh on the players mentioned but we either want to be a good team or a charity case, and we're either imposing standards on the whole team, for every game, or we're imposing them just on Marcus Rashford and not on anyone else. There isn't really an inbetween you can flit around in because as soon as you do that the message is inconsistent and just invites players to think they or their mate is being singled out.

I think it's possible the lower standards he is referring to is in terms of their attitudes and work on the training ground - I think you allude to as much, in fairness. I don't think it's a case of him choosing others to be nice though.
By dropping Rashford and Garnacho for their lack of application it sends a clear message that everyone will need to apply themselves 100 per cent, I think it was Pochettino who said what footballers are actually paid for is to train, the match day will take care of itself then, or words to that effect.
If players aren't putting the effort in then it's fair enough to drop them, I don't think it's double standards to pick players who are putting 100 per cent but might not be overall good enough, especially in the absence of viable alternatives, if we're going to rotate then the league cup is the time to do it and the transfer market should take care of those issues in the long run.
If he's still picking the likes of Martinez, Evans, Dalot and Lindelof this time next season then we can say there's a clear problem.

 

[Tincanalley]

Infuriating with the mistakes. We probably should have won that. Bayindir is a donkey.

It’s tough. Bad display by him, yes

 

[jem]

Shite referee basically made it a lottery

Alongside everything else, why was Bayinder shown a yellow?

 

[noodlehair]

I think it's possible the lower standards he is referring to is in terms of their attitudes and work on the training ground - I think you allude to as much, in fairness. I don't think it's a case of him choosing others to be nice though.
By dropping Rashford and Garnacho for their lack of application it sends a clear message that everyone will need to apply themselves 100 per cent, I think it was Pochettino who said what footballers are actually paid for is to train, the match day will take care of itself then, or words to that effect.
If players aren't putting the effort in then it's fair enough to drop them, I don't think it's double standards to pick players who are putting 100 per cent but might not be overall good enough, especially in the absence of viable alternatives, if we're going to rotate then the league cup is the time to do it and the transfer market should take care of those issues in the long run.
If he's still picking the likes of Martinez, Evans, Dalot and Lindelof this time next season then we can say there's a clear problem.

Yeah I get that and I don't think there was any mistake in dropping Rashford or Garnacho. THat part I think was a strong move and showed good management, but then you have to back it up with how you apply it to everything and everyone. Once the improvement is there, THEN you can start taking a few liberties, resting people, de-prioritising games, etc. Not about 5 days later.

And I fully get that eveyrone who was picked last night might be putting full effort into every training session, have impecible attitudes etc...I think what's missing is its not just about what YOU as the manager see and judge, its about how the people you are trying to send a message to perceive it...and dropping and shaming one person, then picking another who basically throws the ball into their own net and costs your team the game...that's not a good perception, and it was easily avoidable from Amorim's perspective, because he chose to play a weaker set of players.

And yes he might not know the players, but that only excuses it up to a certain point. I have never managed or coached a Man Utd team but I know I wouldn't pick Lindelof and Evans if I didn't want to concede lots of soft goals. What are these standards for if they're not aimed at making the team tougher to beat and more trusting in each other as team mates?

Dalot and Martinez I wouldn't put in that bracket. Much as Dalot winds me up, its not like Amorim could have picked someone obviously superior, and he does bring something to the table. There were players last night who I genuinely think if they were avalable on a free and without even factoring in wages, would struggle to get picked up by another PL team. So you know, either we want these high standards that the best teams have. Or we want to go to Tottenham Hotspur and compete for who can be the best comedy act.

 

[MyBloodIsRed]

Altay is not a great keeper and a cup that isn’t important…. It was all the plan hahaha

 

[Bright_Eyes]

Losing this one and the mistakes we made were painful but I think the signs are very positive and so far this is going as expected. Much better structure, stats are way better, and we're giving good teams a run for their money. We don't look like we're giving up anymore and it's paying off sometimes. You can tell the players still aren't used to the system, where to position themselves etc yet, and that we need some new signings in some positions but the system looks like it can work very well when those things happen. I'd say we're about on par with how we should be progressing as a team, perhaps even a bit ahead with the City performance.

 

[Crimson King]

The bigger issues for me is he's made a public stance with Rashford and Garnacho that he wont accept low standards.

Then less than a week later he is dropping Amad and Maguire/De Ligt to play Antony, Evans and Lindelof.

I think that's not just an error, its a big big error. Yes someone like Evans might have a better attitude in training, and in general, but he wouldn't play for any other Premier League team because he isn't up to the required level physically...and when you talk about standards, that's what everyone, including the players you are trying to enforce them on, is going to primarily look at.

I get its a league cup game and in a different circumstance that's fine, but you have to take it with the context which is that we've just made a big public fuss about our players and publicly shamed one of the most high profile ones, in order to send a message that we don't accept low standards anymore...then a few days later we put on a circus act and willingly send the clowns into the arena.

He should have gone with the strongest 11 last night or at the very least picked people who aren't below the basic levels for a professional PL footballer.

That might be harsh on the players mentioned but we either want to be a good team or a charity case, and we're either imposing standards on the whole team, for every game, or we're imposing them just on Marcus Rashford and not on anyone else. There isn't really an inbetween you can flit around in because as soon as you do that the message is inconsistent and just invites players to think they or their mate is being singled out.

I don't think dropping Rashford and then picking players who are obviously inferior can be considered double standards. I don't rate Antony, but he's obviously trying, he's just not very good. He's actually looked ok coming on at RWB and dovetailing with Amad a couple of times, so even I can understand why Amorim is giving him a chance. If anything, surely that's a bigger inditement of Rashford? Pretty much everyone has been given a clean slate, and the only player to be fully dropped from the squad for successive matches is Marcus.

Besides, he still has to rotate. There's a big game at the weekend. De Ligt was unwell apparently, so I'm not surprised he rested Maguire. If DL doesn't recover in time and Maguire picks up an injury in the warmup on Sunday then suddenly he has to play Evans or Lindelof (who is also injured now). Not ideal.

 

[bgoodall]

We would have been beaten by Liverpool over two legs in the next round so glad we are out.

Strongly agree. Don’t need to risk further injuries with what is a very injury prone squad.

 

[lex talionis]

I got around to watching the game late last night. It wasn't our best night of defending, but it's abundantly clear that the fourth goal by Spurs should not have been allowed to stand. The Spurs player clearly hooked the left arm of Bayanidir.

But we're out of this cup competition, which wasn't our priority this season. Signs of life are there in this squad, but I would like to see Martinez return to his peak form soon.

 

[JoseM4]

A loss that is a win. Pointless cup with a two legged semi-final in the busiest period of the year. No, thanks.

Would have been nice to win a trophy.

 

[noodlehair]

I don't think dropping Rashford and then picking players who are obviously inferior can be considered double standards. I don't rate Antony, but he's obviously trying, he's just not very good. He's actually looked ok coming on at RWB and dovetailing with Amad a couple of times, so even I can understand why Amorim is giving him a chance. If anything, surely that's a bigger inditement of Rashford? Pretty much everyone has been given a clean slate, and the only player to be fully dropped from the squad for successive matches is Marcus.

Besides, he still has to rotate. There's a big game at the weekend. De Ligt was unwell apparently, so I'm not surprised he rested Maguire. If DL doesn't recover in time and Maguire picks up an injury in the warmup on Sunday then suddenly he has to play Evans or Lindelof (who is also injured now). Not ideal.

Its not about Marcus its about the message he's trying to send and positive changes he wants to make. If Rashford wants to sulk off rather than put the work in that's his problem. What's more important is the rest of the team and the reaction it gets from them. If the statement is about standards then its not a good look to willingly lower the standard of the team for the very next game. Its a confusing message to send. Especially when we then concede 4 comedy goals and lose a game against a team who had a full on meltdown right in front of us. What kind of standards are those? Doesn't matter if you perform like the circus as long as you act and dress yourself in the right way?

I get that he has to rotate. I'm looking at it in isolation and agree there's plenty of other sides to the argument...but I'd argue the "there's a big game at the weekend" statement. This was a quarter final. We're in 13th place in the league. Its arguable which game was bigger, and I think after the statement at the weekend with the team selection (and result), this game became bigger and important to reinforce that statement. Puffing your chest out isn't nearly as effective if you then trip over your own shoelace.

 

[Lentwood]

Yeah, agree with that. Martinez is so bad he's making Maguire look like Baresi in comparison.

Martinez is equally as slow as Maguire but doesn't have the aerial presence.

He's better on the ball, but Maguire knocks a nice diagonal and all things considered, I don't think Martinez is an upgrade

 

[leeroyTX]

A loss that is a win. Pointless cup with a two legged semi-final in the busiest period of the year. No, thanks.

I completely agree. I don't care about this game or not going on in this silly tournament. Focus should be on the league and Europa.