[laughtersassassin]

Not a doubt in my mind upon reviewing the decisions again today that whe where robbed.

Refs quite clearly are against us.

Newcastle handball goal, Van Dijk handball with penalty not given only for Liverpool to then get a penalty for De Ligt handball and Nunez blatant red card ignored.

Refs don't want us to win and they do their very best to make it extremely hard for us to do so.

It's clear as day at this point

 

[IRELANDUNITED]

Way in the name of God was Garnacho not credited with an assist for Amad’s goal? He literally crossed it to him.

 

[JBG]

Not a doubt in my mind upon reviewing the decisions again today that whe where robbed.

Refs quite clearly are against us.

Newcastle handball goal, Van Dijk handball with penalty not given only for Liverpool to then get a penalty for De Ligt handball and Nunez blatant red card ignored.

Refs don't want us to win and they do their very best to make it extremely hard for us to do so.

It's clear as day at this point

Are you surprised some of those went against us? It's Michael "I'm a huge cnut" Oliver we're talking about.

 

[2 man midfield]

You’re overestimating how much you get per chance while also forgetting loads of other shots that Liverpool took. Amad’s xG for the goal was 0.12. Hojlands chance was 0.11.

The reason Liverpool have a higher xG, pen aside, is simply because they had more shots from better positions. See this shot map.

Amad’s only being 0.12 is a bit daft. He’s about 15 yards out, central and with a clear sight of goal with the keeper struggling to get across. I’d have thought it would be much higher than the Hojlund chance anyway.

 

[Maureen-yo]

You’re overestimating how much you get per chance while also forgetting loads of other shots that Liverpool took. Amad’s xG for the goal was 0.12. Hojlands chance was 0.11.

The reason Liverpool have a higher xG, pen aside, is simply because they had more shots from better positions. See this shot map.

Looking at that map is pretty inconclusive, according to that United had lots of shots from good positions but I doesn’t show whether Liverpool had 8 men on the line forming a human wall etc. can be misleading…

 

[Maureen-yo]

I hope that this line up signals that Amorim has settled on the core of the team now. Bruno, Ugarte and Mainoo are a capable midfield (Bruno floating) with Maguire, De Ligt and Martinez behind them. Just need to sort out the LWB role as although Dalot played well it isn’t his strongest position.
Top priority for me is LWB and a top quality CF, might be tough in January as not many clubs will be willing to let a player who’s scoring go halfway through a season.

 

[RaddyRed]

I hope that this line up signals that Amorim has settled on the core of the team now. Bruno, Ugarte and Mainoo are a capable midfield (Bruno floating) with Maguire, De Ligt and Martinez behind them. Just need to sort out the LWB role as although Dalot played well it isn’t his strongest position.
Top priority for me is LWB and a top quality CF, might be tough in January as not many clubs will be willing to let a player who’s scoring go halfway through a season.

I'd have Yoro over De Ligt personally. Excited to see what quality wing backs bring to this team going forward

 

[quadrant]

Amad’s only being 0.12 is a bit daft. He’s about 15 yards out, central and with a clear sight of goal with the keeper struggling to get across. I’d have thought it would be much higher than the Hojlund chance anyway.

I mean it went through a defender's legs from almost point blank range, its going to be a low percentage chance. There are very few angles in that circumstance where the defender doesn't block it.

Looking at that map is pretty inconclusive, according to that United had lots of shots from good positions but I doesn’t show whether Liverpool had 8 men on the line forming a human wall etc. can be misleading…

Which is why xG is a better measure than shots on/off target, but still, it was a reminder for the poster who could only remember Liverpool having two chances from open play.

 

[Tincanalley]

Another sore point, Robertson pulling Amad's shirt for about 20 seconds in from of the linesman and no call by him?
Amad just stops and shamed Oliver in giving the foul.

Well described.

 

[Maticmaker]

No doubt the team who Ruben put out yesterday is his first choice, and they confirmed it with their performance.
Some outstanding efforts all over the pitch and everyone giving the 100% effort.... its been a long time since we have been able to say that!
Some typical 'marginal' decisions from Oliver going against us yet again, he is not overly bias but on the marginal calls its nearly always against us... come to expect it now!
It now requires a good run on the back of this, at least to get us into the top half of the table a good run in the FA cup would also do us good... defending champions that we are!

 

[Westerkerk]

My only thoughts after the game yesterday were:

- When the players turn up and appear to work hard and show desire, we're much better in practically all areas
- I was apoplectic about the 7 minutes of added time. Unsure where that came from given what we've seen this season in other games, but Liverpool were on the front foot and at home, and Oliver was the ref, so kind of makes sense
- Would have been hilarious if we'd then gone and won it right at the end, but of course that chance dropped to Maguire, so naturally wasn't to be (edit: I remembered that Zirkzee was maybe marginally offside, so if Maguire had hit the net, the win may have been snatched away from us anyway, possibly hitting our fragile confidence - best to imagine the result was meant to be?)
- Still 100% unknown what standard of a performance we'll see in the next game, and whether anything will actually improve on the field, but clearly, we CAN put a performance in if we play with the same level of desire

 

[CoopersDream]

- I was apoplectic about the 7 minutes of added time. Unsure where that came from given what we've seen this season in other games, but Liverpool were on the front foot and at home, and Oliver was the ref, so kind of makes sense

There were 7 subs and 4 goals in the second half. One of the goals was from a penalty where there was a VAR check before. Surely 7 minutes is reasonable for that.

 

[Westerkerk]

There were 7 subs and 4 goals in the second half. One of the goals was from a penalty where there was a VAR check before. Surely 7 minutes is reasonable for that.

I didn't say it wasn't reasonable, but the time added on is not consistently applied across games - we were moving towards something which provided more consistency (with longer game times as a result) in more recent times, and we've gone back to an inconsistent approach in the Premier League - this has been discussed at length over the course of this season, and has been an incredibly hot topic elsewhere recently, particularly with some key examples in Eredivise.

 

[IRN-BRUno]

Excellent from the start, I'd say that's the best we've played against a top 6 side away for a very long time. Matched them throughout and even a small disappointment that they didn't get the win.

The result might be the same as last season but it was like night and day in terms of performance.

 

[Sandikan]

Another sore point, Robertson pulling Amad's shirt for about 20 seconds in from of the linesman and no call by him?
Amad just stops and shamed Oliver in giving the foul.

Yep the linesman wasn't going to give that under any circumstances. Pathetic stuff

 

[CoopersDream]

I didn't say it wasn't reasonable, but the time added on is not consistently applied across games - we were moving towards something which provided more consistency (with longer game times as a result) in more recent times, and we've gone back to an inconsistent approach in the Premier League - this has been discussed at length over the course of this season, and has been an incredibly hot topic elsewhere recently, particularly with some key examples in Eredivise.

But what was your issue then? It was too much? To little? He could easily have given more if he added extra for two very long cleebrations as well.

 

[TwoSheds]

Yep the linesman wasn't going to give that under any circumstances. Pathetic stuff

That lino should have been shot, cheating bell end. What is the point of the guy if he can't call that?

 

[Tincanalley]

My only thoughts after the game yesterday were:

… of course that chance dropped to Maguire, so naturally wasn't to be ….

Only thoughts include an agenda with curled edges. Knowledgeable posters saying Maguire was excellent yesterday. Maybe give that one a rest.

 

[Demon Barber]

I'm with @Kaizane and @mctrials23 on this one. Liverpool were not poor. Alexander-Arnold did not have a "stinker." We were good throughout, tactically smart and highly competitive.

We set up to target their right-hand flank, and it worked, with Dalot, Bruno and Martinez all on their game. Dalot was superb throughout and made Alexander-Arnold look ordinary. Our right-hand side was more conservative, with Mazraoui covering as any one of our three CBs was encouraged to push forward.

People can criticise deLigt for their goal, but I thought he had a really good game. Maguire was excellent throughout - yes I know he fluffed his lines at the end, but this was a CB, for United, at Anfield, trying to win the game in the 97th minute. Likewise Martinez - confident and free to attack. The way he won the ball by crunching through Salah was delightful.

Just on Salah - of course he is an exceptional player, but other than a couple of decent through balls and a lucky penalty, did he actually have a shot? I forget.

Ugarte was brilliant and Mainoo did well. Liverpool's midfield is strong, and they more than held their own. Amad was a little lost at times in that No.10 role, but he scored and could have scored early on.

Fernandes MOTM for me, closely followed by Dalot, Maguire and Ugarte. I can understand Amorim's anger after the game - this was the kind of performance that is expected every game and it has been frustratingly lacking. I think he has found his starting XI now.

 

[gerdm07]

You’ll never see a Liverpool player given a red at Anfield.

Robertson got a red just 3 weeks ago at Anfield. Can we stop blaming the refs when we don't win?

 

[gerdm07]

I'd have Yoro over De Ligt personally. Excited to see what quality wing backs bring to this team going forward

De Ligt is better as a central CB and right now Maguire is playing better. Our best 3 might be Maz, Maguire and Yoro. However, Yoro's minutes should be somewhat limited. I think Amorim believes in Martinez and will give him time to settle in his role.

 

[Abizzz]

Robertson got a red just 3 weeks ago at Anfield. Can we stop blaming the refs when we don't win?

Yeah, no one on here has blamed anyone but the ref's across the last decade.

 

[Florida Man]

Win?

Can a draw be a win?

 

[horsechoker]

Was there any conclusion on whether Zirkzee was offside?

 

[red woppit]

I'd have Yoro over De Ligt personally. Excited to see what quality wing backs bring to this team going forward

I have a feeling that Yoro will replace Maguire in due course, could be why United will trigger Maguire's extra year. I'm not a big Maguire fan, but he certainly looks more comfortable in a back three, and has also put in some good shifts.

 

[Foolsgold21]

Excellent performance - almost every player contributed positively.

Average age of the team was 25, dropping to around 24 if you say outfield players only - therefore it will be a great experience for a lot of the younger players, especially as we were so resilient.

All this and with talented young players on the bench in Garnacho and Yoro etc.

 

[RedDevil [NC]]

Was there any conclusion on whether Zirkzee was offside?

It was tight and I think most think VAR would have turned it had we scored

 

[horsechoker]

It was tight and I think most think VAR would have turned it had we scored

Looks too close to tell with the naked eye but haven't seen any lines drawn or systems used.

 

[McLvnsMuse]

Good performance all things considered. So much room for improvement. Some personal…some application. Amad and Bruno can’t be our only potent weapons.

 

[Herschel Krustofsky]

Can a draw be a win?

Emotionally, yes. Statistically, no!

 

[erikcred]

Can a draw be a win?

Did you see the match thread leading up to the game? Relative to that, we won the CL.

 

[711]

Was there any conclusion on whether Zirkzee was offside?

Yes, if someone says it might have been offside they are correct, if someone says it was offside they are seeing what they want to see. So when I say yes I mean no, sorry.

 

[horsechoker]

Yes, if someone says it might have been offside they are correct, if someone says it was offside they are seeing what they want to see. So when I say yes I mean no, sorry.

Your post might be twat

 

[bosskeano]

i still don't see what Zirkzee brings to the table as a CF especially in this formation?? he's just not the type of striker you need for the 343 system

 

[Ish]

One question I had but forgot to ask yesterday was, after having watched that, how did the hell did xG for the game happen to be 2,87 to 1,03 to them? I mean, I guess a penalty kick raises xG quite a bit but we had an xG of 1,03 based on all those opportunities we had which we didn't take, plus actually also scoring 2 in the game? Can someone make it make sense.

 

[Agila Dathi]

Show me more of that work rate and mentality, and I will fall in love with this team again.

 

[Shiva87]

High xg doesn't mean shit in that situation, because the pass was poor which meant that even was he right under the cross bar he could very easily have missed it.


It's not about going after a player, I don't care who played the pass because it was a shocker. If it was Bruno Fernandes, Garnacho, Dalot etc. I'd say the same thing. It's just pass basic appreciation. It's an awful pass to give any team mate in that situation, regardless of who is on the end of it.

It's moments like this that are the reason this team and these players mess up attacks, miss chances and don't score enough goals. Granted he may have been pulled back for offside, but that shouldn't even come into it. I've never in my life seen a bobbly pass up at someone's shin been described as a good pass. A little bit of pass appreciation there, make sure you give a good pass and give your team mate a chance to make a good connection on the ball and it could be a last minute winner.

Yeah but at the same time, it’s a player low on confidence, hooked off after 30 mins in the previous game, boo-ed by home fans after 6 months at the club (where we have sacked a manager because how bad the overall team has been), trying to make the right pass in the 96th min of a game at Anfield.

Without the context also, you can forgive a young player that head rush but I feel sad that our own fans are complaining about that pass so much.

Yes a better pass would have won us the game; but there is no doubt that Zirkzee has not walked into a team of serial winners. Blaming our current problems on him is super crazy

 

[Sandikan]

Robertson got a red just 3 weeks ago at Anfield. Can we stop blaming the refs when we don't win?

Well obviously that had to be a red. He absolutely obliterated someone as last man.

What the poster should have said, was you'll never get a 5050 call given as red at Anfield.

 

[CoopersDream]

One question I had but forgot to ask yesterday was, after having watched that, how did the hell did xG for the game happen to be 2,87 to 1,03 to them? I mean, I guess a penalty kick raises xG quite a bit but we had an xG of 1,03 based on all those opportunities we had which we didn't take, plus actually also scoring 2 in the game? Can someone make it make sense.

It seems different models gives different values here. understat has it on 2.86-1.67. Which would be very even if not for the penalty. I also think Amad's header miss don't have any xG as it wasn't headed towards goal.

 

[Jippy]

My only thoughts after the game yesterday were:

- When the players turn up and appear to work hard and show desire, we're much better in practically all areas
- I was apoplectic about the 7 minutes of added time. Unsure where that came from given what we've seen this season in other games, but Liverpool were on the front foot and at home, and Oliver was the ref, so kind of makes sense
- Would have been hilarious if we'd then gone and won it right at the end, but of course that chance dropped to Maguire, so naturally wasn't to be (edit: I remembered that Zirkzee was maybe marginally offside, so if Maguire had hit the net, the win may have been snatched away from us anyway, possibly hitting our fragile confidence - best to imagine the result was meant to be?)
- Still 100% unknown what standard of a performance we'll see in the next game, and whether anything will actually improve on the field, but clearly, we CAN put a performance in if we play with the same level of desire

That's the fourth official's decision, not Oliver's.