PL D FA Premier League

Manchester United 0:0 Hull City

Post-match discussion


Wed, 01 February 2017

Bringing on Rooney instead of martial when needing a goal is quite literally the dumbest decision one can make as a manager

Also, I never comment on opposition players performance, but Jesus Christ Niasse should not be in a Sunday league, never mind the premier league. I couldn't help but notice that he couldn't trap a single ball the entire game :lol:
 
Bringing on Rooney instead of martial when needing a goal is quite literally the dumbest decision one can make as a manager

Rooney literally rescued a point for us just recently.

When they both played at the weekend we scored four goals.

I think the Rooney impact is massively overstated.
 
Same as all the other draws earlier in the season. Incredibly frustrating as it was a real chance to close the gap, we could well have been level with Arsenal by the end of the weekend. Oh well

Our goalscoring issues are a matter of clashing styles imo. Ibra needs one approach, rashford and martial need another. Mata wants to build one way, mhki wants to build another it makes us disjointed and indecisive.

Not overly worried long term as I think we've the best manager in place for the job but last night makes me think top 4 just isn't gonna happen now. On our day we're as good as the other contenders but we're too inconsistent.

Winning a cup or two would be great
 
Is it confidence? I really don't know what is happening, it happened so many times this season we made the oppositions keepers look like superman. It feels sick every time this happens. It looks like another season without C.L football.
 
1 - Starting XI was wrong : We saw against them twice that the way the play they don't let us play easily in midfield, and they had too many time on the ball since Hudllestone was alone. We had to play this game 4-2-3-1 to get an extra player up front. Also I wasn't, and still not convinced by our left flank. Whether this is Rashford / Blind or Martial / Blind, we are not threatening from this side and we regularly have some weakness there, yesterday was the case too.

2 - Starting a slow Pogba + slow Carrick + slow Ibra + slow Blind + no feets Rojo and Jones cost. Of course it costs because we're not playing the ball quick enough to create space. Half of our team is slow in runs, the other was not so interested by yesterday's game. The point here is even if Carrick was slow, we could have play the ball from behind that didn't come, and having Pogba missing all his controls, and not hurting anyone was too easy to control for a weak Hull side.

3 - Subs was wrong : Rooney's entrance was not decisive as he was slow too. Mata was ok, but not on the right. We should have replaced Blind central with Rojo and play Young left for the last 20 mins and play Martial in front of him. What worked against Boro was the change of the team's shap, the inclusion of Rashford etc, yesterday wasn't a mastermind act by Mou.
 
True Hulls keeper had an inspired game but United didn't create much and when they did were wasteful.How the BBC can call it an entertaining game,I don't know ! I cant understand bringing on Rooney for Carrick at half time even if he had a knock.For all the impact Rooney had,United might as well have brought on 79 year old Sir Bobby Charlton !
Surely Schweinsteiger should have been on the bench and United should rotate him and Carrick for the rest of the season.
If you cant beat the bottom team at home then you don't deserve to get into the Champions League and United are rightly 6th in the EPL table.
Rojo was our best player and I just hope Phil Jones injury isn't too bad.
 
I thought Rashford was poor the first half much like most of the team.
Should have started on the bench. The martial handling is baffling. It starting to get a little tiresome with Jose always wanting a fight (Carrick, Bast, Shaw and now Martial I thought there was signs of stability and progression. He's got to let the leashes off against the lower teams at Old Trafford to start with.
For all the improvement of Hull recently he showed them to much respect from the off. Our best performances are still when we've got behind teams and stretched them with width. The lack of flexibility in swapping wingers from side to side is frustrating. The sides who set up not to get beat must love seeing Rashford and co having to cut in because they are not strong enough to get onto their weaker foots. Everything in front of them.
Please mix it up before giving players the hook.
 
We used 14 players today and could not score.
You think if we added Martial to the mix this would've been the key player for us, allowing us to win?

Not really but if you go to the media to announce that player X won't play because he isn't good enough, then better be sure to win the next game because anything short will definitely be on you....

Even if X is Fellaini
 
Same as all the other draws earlier in the season. Incredibly frustrating as it was a real chance to close the gap, we could well have been level with Arsenal by the end of the weekend. Oh well

Our goalscoring issues are a matter of clashing styles imo. Ibra needs one approach, rashford and martial need another. Mata wants to build one way, mhki wants to build another it makes us disjointed and indecisive.

Not overly worried long term as I think we've the best manager in place for the job but last night makes me think top 4 just isn't gonna happen now. On our day we're as good as the other contenders but we're too inconsistent.

Winning a cup or two would be great
I have been sleeping on this. That point is exactly what was on my mind. We need to decide on a style and have players who fit it. We have a hotchpotch of players. People say we should sign a winger, we don't play with wingers do we? We play with wide forwards. Do we need pace there, of course and in the midfield and at the back.

We have three left back, none of whom seem to bring much to our play. Which then makes it a problem of who to pick. When Darmian plays attacking on that side goes out of the window. Blind can do it, but can also do some awful stuff. Shaw just seems to be struggling with his fitness continuously. One RB who is either great or unproductive, then if he gets injured we are screwed.

We have lots of CB's but again Jones and Rojo have done the best, the lo and behold Jones gets injured and we have Bambi in headlights Smalling to come in. I presume Bailly will be back in. We need to sell Smalling and get another CB at least.

If he wants pace, then make sure you sign pacy players. Having Ibra up front then persistently bringing Rooney on makes us slow, ponderous and predictable. I like Mata but not wide. I think we need a proper strategy for transfer to fit an actual system. We will go out and sign Antoine Greizmann with no thought to producing chances for him to score, but he will sell shirts so that is great.

Can't you tell I have done this after sod all sleep. I resent losing sleep over Manchester United. :(
 
I have been sleeping on this. That point is exactly what was on my mind. We need to decide on a style and have players who fit it. We have a hotchpotch of players. People say we should sign a winger, we don't play with wingers do we? We play with wide forwards. Do we need pace there, of course and in the midfield and at the back.

We have three left back, none of whom seem to bring much to our play. Which then makes it a problem of who to pick. When Darmian plays attacking on that side goes out of the window. Blind can do it, but can also do some awful stuff. Shaw just seems to be struggling with his fitness continuously. One RB who is either great or unproductive, then if he gets injured we are screwed.

We have lots of CB's but again Jones and Rojo have done the best, the lo and behold Jones gets injured and we have Bambi in headlights Smalling to come in. I presume Bailly will be back in. We need to sell Smalling and get another CB at least.

If he wants pace, then make sure you sign pacy players. Having Ibra up front then persistently bringing Rooney on makes us slow, ponderous and predictable. I like Mata but not wide. I think we need a proper strategy for transfer to fit an actual system. We will go out and sign Antoine Greizmann with no thought to producing chances for him to score, but he will sell shirts so that is great.

Can't you tell I have done this after sod all sleep. I resent losing sleep over Manchester United. :(
I have been sleeping restlessly and been thinking whats wrong on my way to work. :)
All I wanted was a nice Thursday morning after we have won...
 
I see a lot of people criticising Rashfords performance but I saw a player asked to stay wide and stretch their back line which he did well. The problem was a lack of support close to him once he ran out of space. He had two or three men on him which is exactly what we should want as it means space elsewhere. We just needed someone to get the ball off him quicker and switch the play.

That should have been Pogba in the first half and Rooney in the second half but Rooney couldn't get close to him when he broke.
 
I see a lot of people criticising Rashfords performance but I saw a player asked to stay wide and stretch their back line which he did well. The problem was a lack of support close to him once he ran out of space. He had two or three men on him which is exactly what we should want as it means space elsewhere. We just needed someone to get the ball off him quicker and switch the play.

That should have been Pogba in the first half and Rooney in the second half but Rooney couldn't get close to him when he broke.
Rooney has to go, he offers very little now. He has his record, hopefully we can win a trophy and he can go out on a high. Henrik was disappointing tonight and Pogba needs to just get on with playing football. I don't think his PR men want that though.
 
No we wouldn't, because the manager would still insist on playing the ancient carthorse up front.
The 'ancient carthorse' has won us plenty of points but don't let that prevent you from throwing abuse.
 
I'm not hugely worried. I still think we'll make 4th.

Hull have proven difficult opponents this season. We needed a last minute winner to beat them in the league fixture, and lost to them last week. We didn't play well, but it happens. We either gained on or kept up with all teams above us bar City. We've had worse weeks.

The only regret I have is that we're another home game down, and another 'easy' fixture has passed and yet again we haven't capitalised. The run in gets harder from here and we're running out of matches, we need to start making weeks like this count.
 
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Calm down;

The hyperbole from Manchester United fans result-to-result can be quite cringeworthy.

We didn't play great and it cost us points, end of argument.

There is no doubt we are missing a clinical dynamic and as much as I love the guy, I feel Ibra's presence is to blame. It all seems a little one dimensional with him in the side. Almost as if everything has to go through him, from Carrick and Pogba going straight at him to Valencia/Blind/Rashford/Miki - whoever's wide - trying to get to the byline and across for him. It sounds almost stupid to say, but he is way too big a presence in that team when we have so many players who can create much more than just assists..think of the riches we have in creative players, yet we seem so narrow and one-dimensional. I'd like to see us have a few games without Ibra...try Waz or Martial up top which I feel would give our support wide players (pick any two...they all offer something_ more licence to free up their game...to improvise.

It seems absolutely amazing to me that we have Ibra, Rooney, Mata, Martial, Rashford, Mikitaryan, Lingard, etc and are finding it difficult to create clear-cut chances. Stunning.

By the way; probably the worst thing to happen last night was not the lack of goal, but the injury to Phil Jones. He has been an absolute rock for us.

Despite last night, I think we'll win our next two games and be right on the line of fourth. Liverpool won't win either of their next two.
 
First half is too pedestrian and cautious, no urgency other than lob to Valencia or relying on Rashford for counter attack. Pogba and Ibra dropping too deep. Thats a plan for failure. Since when did we ever won a game by relying on Rashford counter attack?

Rooney was awful. Pogba, Ibra, Mikhi all drop their standards this game.
 
Never mind our big players being virtually rubbish, we didnt win and we dont deserve to be 4th. Its a shame,Liverpool have dropped a tonne of points lately and we have not managed to capitalise. 4 points gone in the past 2 games. We are 4 points behind 4th.

The teams above us are far too strong and actually score goals. Ibra as the only outlet is just wrong. Hes 35! Rooney to chnage the game? He cant even play football anymore. Jose brings this on himself at times.
 
Due to the issue that the EPL sold the rights here to a streaming service, wtf, I have only seen highlights. It's obvious that Rooney is far from creative and is struggling to make any sort of impact (except arguing with the referee).

The failure to have a second striker is causing massive problems , and until that is addressed and pace added to the midfield, the struggles to score and break down massed defences will continue. The manager and Woody really need to capture the essence of what made United a global brand and get the players to compete with top of the EPL and play Champions League regularly

It's so obvious what the issues are ,that no doubt Mourinho doesn't want to discuss them with the press , but appears that we will struggle to make top 4 until we can score and play from the midfield with speed. Decisions for the summer transfer market should be to the forefront
 
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yes we failed to capitalise bit this isn't as bad a week as you all are making out..

no one but city gained points on us.
we gained on Arsenal by a point and everyone else stays the same. calm down we have had worse weeks. where everyone has won and we draw or loose.

onto the next one where hopefully Martial will start or atleast come on.

I really think there will be a lot of ins and outs in the summer. I really hope Griezmann goes through, we need a proper finisher.
 
Why the funk are we not playing Martial. He was our best player and top scorer last year.

And yet Mourinho seems to be intent on driving him out. Perhaps that's because he really thinks he's not good enough but me, I think it's more to do with signing Griezmann than anything else. As I've said before, this is Mourinho, if he's hell bent on dumping a player he will dump him come what may. He tried it with BfS, but as the man is a vastly experienced pro at the end of his career the player rode it out and the José was forced to back down, bet that riled him no end.
 
1. Wing play, Blind & Rashford didn't really combine, same as against Liverpool, Martial had 4 players on him, but our manager didn't instruct the LB to go forward and combine with him. We give the ball to Rashford, then the players just stand and expect him to dribble past the defenders, where is the movement? It's a style that screams "get it to the winger & hope for some magic". Now, if that's what you're going to do, you're better off starting Martial, he's more of a wide player, has the trickery & pace to do it.

2. Zlatan, 14 PL goals but like Giroud for Arsenal, our general attacking play suffers because of his style. At 35, he doesn't have the legs, doesn't occupy defenders, doesn't drag them about with his movement & he doesn't run in behind, hence, we must play it to his feet, the problem with this is that, as a team, our use of the ball is not great & our passing is slow.

3. Midfield, when Carrick is not on his game, we lose control. Pogba takes too many touches, the players are too far apart, everyone wants to take an extra touch, when will we see United play one touch football? How about allowing a CB to bring the ball into midfield? Rojo is very good on the ball, Hull conceded a lot of space in midfield, it was begging for the CB to step into that space, attack it. It's very clear that he was instructed not to do it.

4. System, we started with 4141 formation, but Mhkitaryan spent all his time in the middle, so once again, onus was on Valencia, the right back to provide width on the right, which means, more crosses, and more basic, route one attacking play. Then he brought on Rooney & Mata, at one point, I didn't know what formation we were playing but whatever it was, it wasn't working. Mourinho's answer to our dysfunctional attack seems to be to bring on more attackers and hope for the best.

5. Improvement? If you analyze how we created our so called chances, you'll see a clear pattern, it's either from a cross, a long ball or a knockdown, I think the only time we cut open that Hull defense was when Zlatan flicked it to Pogba, what happened there? Simple, someone was willing to run past Zlatan, to get in behind, not rocket science. Our attacking play is so basic, it's so predictable, in fact, I can tell you how the ball will go from De Gea, to Rojo, to Carrick, then to Pogba, Pogba to Herrera, then to Valencia on the right wing, then a cross for Zlatan to knock down, most of our attacking play follows this pattern. It's not sophisticated, it's not incisive and it lacks imagination.

33 goals after 23 PL games, Crystal Palace, 18th & fighting relegation have scored 32, 14th placed Bournemouth have scored 32, Everton in 7th have scored 34. That's how bad we have been in attack.
 
There won't be many times when so many above us collectively drop points. We could have been in striking distance of second place, instead we're a tier below and hoping to get 6 points more than at least 2 of the teams ahead of us.
 
Rooney literally rescued a point for us just recently.

When they both played at the weekend we scored four goals.

I think the Rooney impact is massively overstated.
Rooney was awful when he came on at Stoke. His goal glossed over a really terrible performance.
 
I think that was a terrible terrible result, and I'm not sure how anyone on here could say otherwise, just because we've had worse weeks. We're nowhere close to Champions League level if we can't win these games when we need to, so missing out again is probably for the best.
 
I'm not having a go, but you're criticising people for being "armchair managers with perfect hindsight" while posting two paragraphs of your opinion on team selection.

It's a forum, and I think the negative reactions here are mainly because on a round of fixtures where all our rivals with the exception of City dropped points, we only managed a nil all against Hull City at home. It's natural for people to have opinions on the game, right or wrong.

Fair enough mate, your can read my post as a critique but it's more of an analysis I think my point is really that people (I guess myself) should not be overly negative about things at the moment but we really need to improve soon in terms of our killer instinct. I thought the team at the start was fine on paper and Mou was not wrong on that. My point is that a lot of ppl seem to be blaming Mou for this loss and I don't think that's right. Though I do question Rooney coming off the bench first instead of Martial.
 
Every time our top 4 rivals drop points we can never capitalise that's the most annoying thing. 0-0 at home to fecking Hull after Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs all dropped points the day before....unacceptable honestly they seem to have no bottle. Meh probably our worst result of the season.
 
What happened in this match is not serious , this is all I have to say and Mou seems to have been right selling Mata , he seems very unreliable , second match we don't win because of him

Mata didn't play badly. If he scored that goal which 99% of the time would have gone in (save for that crazy save last night), you would be saying different. He created and did a hell of a lot more than Rooney.
 
For those that watched on TV, why did the ref constantly give fouls when we won headers?
 
What happened in this match is not serious , this is all I have to say and Mou seems to have been right selling Mata , he seems very unreliable , second match we don't win because of him

We only started playing well when Mata came on the pitch...
 
I think we have been stumbling along all season and see little improvement over LVGs United, except for more shots at goal.

After 23 games Jose's United won 11 with 42 points.

After 23 games Moyes's United won 12 with 40 points.

Moyes was getting extreme amounts of criticism - Jose has everyone singing for him from the roof tops.

Jose spent £150m
Moyes bought Fellaini
 
I think we have been stumbling along all season and see little improvement over LVGs United, except for more shots at goal.

After 23 games Jose's United won 11 with 42 points.

After 23 games Moyes's United won 12 with 40 points.

Moyes was getting extreme amounts of criticism - Jose has everyone singing for him from the roof tops.

Jose spent £150m
Moyes bought Fellaini
Moyes took over a Championship winning side. Jose's taking over a side who's best finish in 3 years is 4th.
 
For those that watched on TV, why did the ref constantly give fouls when we won headers?

Because he was an incompetent idiot who didn't know how to differentiate between normal contact and an actual foul.

The one Valencia was called on in the second half was ridiculous. Valencia simply jumped higher and caught the ball at a great height. He wasn't leaning forward or anything but just because the Hull player bottled it or couldn't be arsed to compete in a jump and bristled at the slightest contact, the ref called a foul.
 
Because he was an incompetent idiot who didn't know how to differentiate between normal contact and an actual foul.

The one Valencia was called on in the second half was ridiculous. Valencia simply jumped higher and caught the ball at a great height. He wasn't leaning forward or anything but just because the Hull player bottled it or couldn't be arsed to compete in a jump and bristled at the slightest contact, the ref called a foul.

I figured that was the reason, just wanted to be sure.

There was one in the second half where either Herrera or Rooney (I think Rooney) won a header inspite of the Hull defender backing/leaning into him, and they still got a foul.
 
While we didn't score and dropped off a bit toward the end of the first half, we did dominate them and I could feel the goal coming. Then he took Carrick off. Did the same against Liverpool - any type of pressing and Jose's immediate inclination is to substitute him, despite us losing all control in the midfield when he doesn't play. Rooney coming on was a poor substitute, and the fact that Martial didn't play despite his brilliant performance against Wigan baffles me. Also, the sooner Bailly and Shaw are back in the side, the better.
 
This match was a rare opportunity to make up ground on the top four - we won't get many of these - and we bottled it. It's clear that we continue to be a "top 6" side since SAF left. Still lots of work to be done in the transfer market, all over the pitch but particularly in creative attacking areas. Most of our attacks seem to consist of Valencia lobbing the ball hopefully into the box, which doesn't really cut it at the top level.
 

Player Ratings

4.8 Total Average Rating

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Compiled from 448 ratings.

Score Predictions

598,16,20
  • Man Utd win
  • Hull City win
  • Draw

Detailed Results

  • 34% Man Utd 2:0 Hull City
  • 30% Man Utd 3:0 Hull City
  • 7% Man Utd 3:1 Hull City
  • 6% Man Utd 1:0 Hull City
  • 6% Man Utd 4:0 Hull City
  • 6% Man Utd 2:1 Hull City
  • 3% Man Utd 5:0 Hull City
  • 2% Man Utd 4:1 Hull City
  • 2% Man Utd 1:1 Hull City
  • 1% Man Utd 0:0 Hull City
  • 1% Man Utd 0:1 Hull City
  • 1% Man Utd 0:5 Hull City
  • 0% Man Utd 0:2 Hull City
  • 0% Man Utd 5:1 Hull City
  • 0% Man Utd 2:2 Hull City
  • 0% Man Utd 0:3 Hull City
  • 0% Man Utd 5:5 Hull City
  • 0% Man Utd 1:2 Hull City
  • 0% Man Utd 1:3 Hull City
  • 0% Man Utd 5:4 Hull City
Compiled from 634 predictions.
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Match Stats

  1. Man Utd
  2. Hull City
Possession
67% 33%
Shots
16 6
Shots on Target
6 2
Corners
7 1
Fouls
20 16

Referee

Mike Jones