[SteveCoppellFan]

The last goal is a complete disaster from our end.

Maguire under no pressure, passes it to Varane who just scuffs a pass straight to them, they have a shot from that, that somehow spins away to the corner flag, we completely switch off from this and allow them to retrieve the ball which they promptly score the winner.

We need TWO top class central defenders who can play out from the back without any problems and can properly defend when required, until that happens we will leak goals like a non league outfit.

 

[Matt Varnish]

He's moving his leg across and planting his foot to protect the ball, it's a natural body movement to protect the ball, I teach this move to kids every week. He was unlucky that the other player stuck his leg in as that's what he was planting his foot to guard against.

It's not a red card in any scenario for any player, because it's not a deliberate stamping action.

I'm not sure I agree with anyone who says that it is not a red.
My argument is always the same, if that's at the other end on Rashford, would you want the offender to see red, my answer to that is "yes".
Whether it is a "stamp" or a "plant" is irrelevant, the fact is he caught the player and caused an injury, it's a foul.
Carragher says it looked worse because of the freeze frame, IMO it looks a lot worse in real time, it actually appears that Rashford reaches over the ball to catch the players ankle.
The deciding factor for me, is Rashford grinning and the wry smile on his face.
ETH has a case that there was a player in an offside position for their first goal, not sure why VAR didn't pick that up.
VAR worked for us, and against us, both penalties were dubious handballs.
We went into a 3-2 lead with 22mins on the clock, not 10 as some are saying, Copenhagen had to go for it, they brought on fresh attackers. ETH brings on Mount, that's not the response I expected, we had Lindelhof on the bench, taking off Hojland was a mistake, he would have been a good outlet, to take the pressure off.
People are rightly slating Dalot, but blowing smoke up AWB's arse, the crosses for three of the goals came from his side of the pitch, not once did he attempt to close the ball down, in every case he gives the player time and space to cross the ball.
I've noticed that since the Wolves game, Ohno, is glued to his line, he could have come for both crosses, but he doesn't he's rooted and is easily beaten, Ok if he doesn't get the ball the result may be the same, but at least the attacker has to have an eye on him, no-one looks forward to 20 stone of keeper flying at you!
Finally
The Fulham game was another false dawn, we struggle against every team we play, no matter the perceived quality, we are plain and simple not good enough to put pressure on opponents and take advantage of it, and when we do, we think "job done" and allow them to come back at us.

 

[Matt Varnish]

We got done by the ref - yeah it happens a lot ( lately ) but we cannot control that.

We fell apart - yeah it happens a lot ( lately ) but we can control that and we fail at it time and time again.

We didn't get done by the Ref, we got done by our own means.
No-one is mentioning the penalty we got thanks to VAR?
We failed to adapt to a situation, ETH is to blame for that.

 

[Oranges038]

I'm not sure I agree with anyone who says that it is not a red.
My argument is always the same, if that's at the other end on Rashford, would you want the offender to see red, my answer to that is "yes".
Whether it is a "stamp" or a "plant" is irrelevant, the fact is he caught the player and caused an injury, it's a foul.
Carragher says it looked worse because of the freeze frame, IMO it looks a lot worse in real time, it actually appears that Rashford reaches over the ball to catch the players ankle.
The deciding factor for me, is Rashford grinning and the wry smile on his face.
ETH has a case that there was a player in an offside position for their first goal, not sure why VAR didn't pick that up.
VAR worked for us, and against us, both penalties were dubious handballs.
We went into a 3-2 lead with 22mins on the clock, not 10 as some are saying, Copenhagen had to go for it, they brought on fresh attackers. ETH brings on Mount, that's not the response I expected, we had Lindelhof on the bench, taking off Hojland was a mistake, he would have been a good outlet, to take the pressure off.
People are rightly slating Dalot, but blowing smoke up AWB's arse, the crosses for three of the goals came from his side of the pitch, not once did he attempt to close the ball down, in every case he gives the player time and space to cross the ball.
I've noticed that since the Wolves game, Ohno, is glued to his line, he could have come for both crosses, but he doesn't he's rooted and is easily beaten, Ok if he doesn't get the ball the result may be the same, but at least the attacker has to have an eye on him, no-one looks forward to 20 stone of keeper flying at you!
Finally
The Fulham game was another false dawn, we struggle against every team we play, no matter the perceived quality, we are plain and simple not good enough to put pressure on opponents and take advantage of it, and when we do, we think "job done" and allow them to come back at us.

I wouldn't want a red in any game, for any player for that. It's a movement all players do to protect the ball, you know someone's coming around and you put your leg across to protect the ball, you need to plant your foot to set yourself amd have balance. Like I said, I teach kids to do this every week, it's an important part of being able to keep and protect the ball in tight areas.

He's grinning and has a wry smile because he knows what's coming and knows deep down that the referee and the officials are having a laugh with that red.

At most it's a foul and a yellow card.

 

[MadDogg]

He's moving his leg across and planting his foot to protect the ball, it's a natural body movement to protect the ball, I teach this move to kids every week. He was unlucky that the other player stuck his leg in as that's what he was planting his foot to guard against.

It's not a red card in any scenario for any player, because it's not a deliberate stamping action.

It doesn't have to be deliberate. If it's clumsy enough to be dangerous to another player then it's still a red card, in the same way that any dangerous tackle can be a red card even if the player was going for the ball. It's definitely unlucky, but Rashford was clumsy enough to go studs in with pretty much all his weight to the side of the guys ankle. He was very lucky he didn't break his ankle.

The same can be said for both handballs that led to penalties. Neither were deliberate, but both chose to have their hands out like that so they can't complain if the ball hits them (Maguire especially since he was deliberately reaching out to block the player turning).

All three incidents were accidental, but the ref got all three right for me. The only issue I have was the deliberate arm to the head on Hojlund in the second half, but it's probably not enough for a straight red so VAR couldn't intervene, and it was very easy for the ref to miss it so didn't give a yellow.

 

[Baneofthegame]

The thing with the Rashford red card which I think @Annihilate Now! alluded to in the other thread, is that should we now just put our legs under people who are trying to plant their feet for a red card every time? What if you jump for a header and land on someone’s ankle coming down? Because as many people pointed out, intent means nothing and the opponents safety is everything? For me personally it’s the consistency of decisions, one week it’s given and everyone says it’s fair next week it’s not and people say “oh well it’s subjective.” It’s infuriating.

On another point I have no idea why their defender wasn’t sent off for a clear elbow on Hojlund?

Both penalties were bs.

Game was once again decided by VAR.

 

[Rooney24]

Who was the wanker that tried to take me out last night?

we have some bell ends in our base

 

[Eric_the_Red99]

I’m really surprised at the number of supposed United fans who are defending to the death the Rashford sending off. Makes me wonder if they’d be doing the same if it wasn’t the Caf’s chosen scapegoat for this season who was sent off.

 

[Oranges038]

It doesn't have to be deliberate. If it's clumsy enough to be dangerous to another player then it's still a red card, in the same way that any dangerous tackle can be a red card even if the player was going for the ball. It's definitely unlucky, but Rashford was clumsy enough to go studs in with pretty much all his weight to the side of the guys ankle. He was very lucky he didn't break his ankle.

The same can be said for both handballs that led to penalties. Neither were deliberate, but both chose to have their hands out like that so they can't complain if the ball hits them (Maguire especially since he was deliberately reaching out to block the player turning).

All three incidents were accidental, but the ref got all three right for me. The only issue I have was the deliberate arm to the head on Hojlund in the second half, but it's probably not enough for a straight red so VAR couldn't intervene, and it was very easy for the ref to miss it so didn't give a yellow.

It's not a tackle or deliberate, he has to put his studs down because he's planting his foot for balance to protect the ball. He's not even looked at the player, if he looked at his and threw his full weight down with excessive force that's a red.

That's not what happened, there's no way that should be a red. j

 

[Stig]

We have some seriously abysmal players on our team.

I thought before the red card that we were maybe playing the most positive and energetic football that we have played this season.

I am usually OK on accepting that referees make mistakes, but the red card, that totally changed the game was not a red card. It simply wasn't.

The penalty, I didn't think it was, but OK accept it, but not agree.

I thought we were the better team with a decent performance.

 

[Stig]

Sorry, but those decisions killed us tonight. Absolutely horrific officiating. That red card was one of the most ridiculous decisions I have seen in football. Completely unintentional, no malice, other player unscathed, yet they stop the game to use VAR to look for a reason to send Rashford off. I didn't realise that's what VAR was for? The penalty a shocking decision too. God awful defending at the end, inexcusable, but we should have been 4 or 5-0 up at that point. We were coasting. Oh well. Just hope we don't get third.

Agreed.

 

[Pickle85]

Not a red for me as it didn't seem to be excessive force for the action and was obviously totally unintentional. Doubly no red as it definitely wasn't a clear and obvious error on the part of the ref so shouldn't have been referred, imo. One of those awkward ones though where the letter of the law has triumphed (unjustly) against the spirit of the law.

 

[matherto]

Do you think rashford meant to do it?

Intent doesn't matter.

 

[Dwight Corke]

We were very good before that weird pause of the game. I wanted to say who kidnaped the real United, who are those imposers? Then good until the sending off and we would have won the game comfortably. After Evans injury and red card we folded. You have to hold on and not concede before the half. If you concede two goals instead in that time you are in trouble. Second half was a waste of time to watch. We capitulated as expected. Wan Bissaka with all his faults is a big improvements on full back, Dalot is a liability. After the red we should immediately replace Eriksen who was anonymous and also Garnacho, push Dalot further up or replace him with Antony and get Lindelof at the full back to be more solid at the back. Players are still fighting. We now know that this season is a write off, and most probably no europe for next season. We won't get relegated. So you have at least two transfer windows to fih things up. Clean up the deadwood, bring in young good players and play them. Get Shaw and Martinez fit and playing regularly. Bring in attacker to take the burden off Hojlund. Develop a recognizable pattern of play.

And at the end of the day. Thinking about it quality wise not one of our players would get into City's first 11. We are where we are for a reason.

Would any of our players make City's bench?

 

[Stig]

We reverted back to 4231 and actually played some decent football. It took a lot of bad luck but Ten Hag isn't helping himself with the decision and in game management.

Expand on this please.

 

[Smithy89]

Good teams and good players get through it while 2-0 up with not much hassle.

 

[matherto]

He's moving his leg across and planting his foot to protect the ball, it's a natural body movement to protect the ball, I teach this move to kids every week. He was unlucky that the other player stuck his leg in as that's what he was planting his foot to guard against.

It's not a red card in any scenario for any player, because it's not a deliberate stamping action.

Perhaps you might wanna update your teaching then because it's a red every time you catch a player when you do that these days.

 

[Betson]

Good teams and good players get through it while 2-0 up with not much hassle.

Agree , And poor teams always find a way to lose big games. I think no matter what happened we wold have found a way to lose last night.

It was Copenhagen not prime Real Madrid , and you have many posters on here treating it like some moral victory.

Their own manger said it was their worst home performance this year and more or less said they were lucky they were only playing us.

While the rest of Europe just laughs at low we have fallen as a club.

 

[Heinzesight]

Slept on it and I’m still fecked off at the officials and the fragility of this team.

We were controlling the game. At 2-0 we were actually starting to resemble a football team. But at the same time, I knew a two goal lead wasn’t enough and if we are thinking that, you know our players are thinking it. Then the red card compounded the fact and as always, we shit the bed with any adversity.

The refs fecked us but conceding four, even with ten men, just shows this team is so weak minded. Then AWB’s panicked back pass (did it even go out though!) was the catalyst for a meltdown after we had performed brilliantly in that second half. The mentality needs addressing. It’s pathetic.

 

[Smithy89]

Agree , And poor teams always find a way to lose big games. I think no matter what happened we wold have found a way to lose last night.

It was Copenhagen not prime Real Madrid , and you have many posters on here treating it like some moral victory.

While the rest of Europe just laughs at low we have fallen as a club.

Standards are tragically low, got zero mentality and just capitulate at any chance. We will find a way to struggle against Luton too.

 

[Oranges038]

We suck

Everyone should do the old Kurt Angle chant after these players.

 

[acid_fuji]

Why on earth people say ETH lost it? Until red card Copenhagen were doing jack sh*t and our pressing cause them ton of troubles. Cant believe error like Dalot switching off, Maguire and Varane poor defending is on ETH. Even before red card while we were doing very well I saw some alarming things from the players like Scotty backing off and letting player go right in front of our penalty area. Wan Bissaka while still good he was not covering man behind him (wasn’t City even target that in one of the game?)

 

[Mike Smalling]

You knew we'd lose once we conceded quickly after the red card. This mental strength of this side is like wet cardboard. If we score three, we'll find a way to concede four.

We also just cannot catch a break at the moment. After Højlund's second I thought we might be in for a simple night for the first time in forever, but then Rashford goes and gets an unlucky red card. The team is in such a tough spot at the moment. Nothing to build on, every game is must win, confidence is shot, injuries everywhere, etc.

 

[DavelinaJolie]

I have little to no criticism of the team tonight. I saw the reaction I wanted to see. We can’t be mad that we can’t beat 10 men for more than an hour away from home in the CL. The odds are always against us. This is on these appalling officials.

I've come around to this viewpoint more after a bit of thought. Three decisions made were terrible and the non-offside call was bad as well.

Can't put all the blame on that though, some performances were shocking.

 

[Oranges038]

Perhaps you might wanna update your teaching then because it's a red every time you catch a player when you do that these days.

Nope, it's an easy clever move every player needs to learn from a young age to protect the ball in tight areas. I was at a blitz a couple of weeks ago and all the better kids on mine and the other teams were doing it. Why? Because they are being taught to use their body to protect the ball and keep possession and they are clever enough to do it. There's no point in not teaching it, because you might catch a player and be sent off. Should I not teach them how to tackle because they might catch a player and be sent off?

Rashford will have done that move 1000s of times and I'll bet you it's probably the first time he's ever saw red or even had a foul given against him for catching a player. It's just not a red card offence, or at least it shouldn't be, he's in possession of the ball and he's trying to protect it. It's a foul and a yellow at most.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Think this is where an orange card is needed. It should never be a red. It was accidental yet gets same punishment as someone who intentionally goes out to do someone.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

You knew we'd lose once we conceded quickly after the red card. This mental strength of this side is like wet cardboard. If we score three, we'll find a way to concede four.

We also just cannot catch a break at the moment. After Højlund's second I thought we might be in for a simple night for the first time in forever, but then Rashford goes and gets an unlucky red card. The team is in such a tough spot at the moment. Nothing to build on, every game is must win, confidence is shot, injuries everywhere, etc.

Yet as other have pointed out VAR ignored completely an offside player of theirs obscuring Onana's view. We did need to be organised then, to me the manager and coaches should have been making sure that happened. They were obviously going to come at us. Ride that our to HT and it could have been different. That goal, even though it should have been disallowed gave them momentum.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I've been avoiding blaming our struggles this season on our defensive crisis, as our main issue has been how terrible we were going forwards. Last night was all about a shocking defensive performance. Completely bereft of composure and quality. Every time Copenhagen had a go at us the chances started to flow. The really worrying this is how often that happened last season too. I think central defence is now just as important as midfield and attack in terms of investment needed. Which makes us becoming a top team again seem even further away.

 

[Salford_Red83]

We didn't get done by the Ref, we got done by our own means.
No-one is mentioning the penalty we got thanks to VAR?
We failed to adapt to a situation, ETH is to blame for that.

Ahh mate, yeah we did.

Even down to 10 men we looked in control of the game.
From a team POV we absolutely shot ourselves in the foot however there were multiple, MULTIPLE VAR decisions against us that tipped the scales in their favour.

 

[buchansleftleg]

As Erik took the team for a "long run" after the Brentford game last season because they outran us...after that game he should line up players, especially Dalot, and tell them to stand facing front while academy players, the Kit man, the tea lady and any other fans available, blast the ball at their heads, torso and nethers.

If they flinch or turn their back then we go back to the start of the line and start again.

I can't believe the defending that occurred at 3-2 up. Not even schoolboys would get away with that level of cowardice.

 

[Buster15]

The last goal is a complete disaster from our end.

Maguire under no pressure, passes it to Varane who just scuffs a pass straight to them, they have a shot from that, that somehow spins away to the corner flag, we completely switch off from this and allow them to retrieve the ball which they promptly score the winner.

We need TWO top class central defenders who can play out from the back without any problems and can properly defend when required, until that happens we will leak goals like a non league outfit.

Agree with that.

 

[noodlehair]

3 of the goals were typical of the shite back post defending we've seen from AWB and Dalot time and time again over the years.

Not to mention the pathetic efforts to close down and block the crosses by Garnacho on the first, AWB on the third and Mount on the fourth.

I just think the third goal, and possibly the fourth, pretty much any other team that passes without anything remotely resembling an incident, because their full back is just stood between the ball and the player, so the goalscorer has no ball to go for in the first place. Maybe the fourth I'm being harsh, but when you watch it back, Dalot never once looks around him, and ends up (for absolutely no reason) miles away from where he should be, which would be between the goalscorer and the goal, which would make a goal much more difficult to happen without him even really being required to do much.

I mean, not closing down a cross, making a dumb error...those are things that can and always will happen throughout the course of a game. Particularly when you have players who aren't quite at the level that the situation needs, or players who specialise in comedy. I can accept the idea they are trying their best and just get tired or make mistakes.

Not looking around you to see where other people on the pitch are isn't an error or trying your best. Its a basic thing that any player at any level should be able to do, because its akin to something like making sure a car isn't coming before you walk into the middle of a road, but for some reason it is beyond the capabilities of Diogo Dalot. Even 5 minutes after he knows not doing it has cost his team a crucial goal, he does it again.

The only thing I can put this down to is that he is an unfathomably stupid footballer, which actually explains a lot of his decision making in games. E.g. the trademark risky crossfield pass to the opposition striker where there's never any plausible explanation as to what e was actually trying to do, or failing to shoot with an open goal from 6 yards out but constantly reigning in shots from about 30 yards out when he's given the ball specifically to cross it.

I don't get caught up too much on player fees/wages, but it genuinely angers me that this man is paid to play football. Every time I watch him. How long would you last as a professional racing driver if you knew to turn corners but kept forgetting that you're supposed to look where you're going so you know when the corner is?

 

[Oranges038]

I just think the third goal, and possibly the fourth, pretty much any other team that passes without anything remotely resembling an incident, because their full back is just stood between the ball and the player, so the goalscorer has no ball to go for in the first place. Maybe the fourth I'm being harsh, but when you watch it back, Dalot never once looks around him, and ends up (for absolutely no reason) miles away from where he should be, which would be between the goalscorer and the goal, which would make a goal much more difficult to happen without him even really being required to do much.

I mean, not closing down a cross, making a dumb error...those are things that can and always will happen throughout the course of a game. Particularly when you have players who aren't quite at the level that the situation needs, or players who specialise in comedy. I can accept the idea they are trying their best and just get tired or make mistakes.

Not looking around you to see where other people on the pitch are isn't an error or trying your best. Its a basic thing that any player at any level should be able to do, but for some reason is beyond the capabilities of Diogo Dalot. Even 5 minutes after he knows not doing it has cost his team a crucial goal, he does it again.

The only thing I can put this down to is that he is an unfathomably stupid footballer, which actually explains a lot of his decision making in games. E.g. the trademark risky crossfield pass to the opposition striker, or failing to shoot with an open goal from 6 yards out but constantly reigning in shots from about 30 yards out when he's given the ball specifically to cross it.

On one of the goals Dalot looks at the player several times, just like he did against Newcastle and does absolutely nothing about it until it's too late. He knows he's there, knows he should go, but does nothing. He's a brain dead defender.

The old football manager scouting report that always put you off signing a player, particularly a defensive player.

"Fairly poor intelligence on the pitch"

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

It doesn't have to be deliberate. If it's clumsy enough to be dangerous to another player then it's still a red card, in the same way that any dangerous tackle can be a red card even if the player was going for the ball. It's definitely unlucky, but Rashford was clumsy enough to go studs in with pretty much all his weight to the side of the guys ankle. He was very lucky he didn't break his ankle.

The same can be said for both handballs that led to penalties. Neither were deliberate, but both chose to have their hands out like that so they can't complain if the ball hits them (Maguire especially since he was deliberately reaching out to block the player turning).

All three incidents were accidental, but the ref got all three right for me. The only issue I have was the deliberate arm to the head on Hojlund in the second half, but it's probably not enough for a straight red so VAR couldn't intervene, and it was very easy for the ref to miss it so didn't give a yellow.

Glad we have people like you making football a better game for us all to watch and play.

 

[wolvored]

Rather than answering all four posters individually back to me I'll just put it here:
Whether Rashford did or didn't deliberately go to stamp on the players foot, its a red all day long in Europe. Same as the two soft pens. Remember the ridiculous Martinez pen last season as well?
Last night Rashford would have probably got a yellow in the Prem and the two pens wouldn't have happend.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Nah we're just really bad.

You say that but then, I mean, we watched the game and we weren't bad until the red. Is that not a factor for you?

 

[tomaldinho1]

If we're going to be upset about poor decisions then the ones from ten hag need just as much focus. Not reorganising the team properly and not using his bench properly either.

It's fair to critique the subs but then who would you have brought on? Varane and Amrabat had to come on so then you look at Mount and think could it have been Martial? No, he's basically a hologram at this point so you're essentially saying it should have been Hannibal? As for reorganising the team, he did.

Maybe Amrabat should have come on immediately after the red, I think that's a fair criticism.

 

[Lyng]

Good teams and good players get through it while 2-0 up with not much hassle.

Normally I would agree with you, and I would agree if the red was the only issue. But it wasnt. First that is never red. Next their goal is offside. And then they get a ridiculous penalty.
We then later get an equally dumb one. But Vavro also doesnt get sent off after elbowing Højlund in the face.
We got shafted all match long. I only blame the players for the last two goals. But overall this was a ref that ruined the game.

 

[NiceGuyEddie]

There have been too many suspicious decisions this season and micro-analysis against us that isn't deployed against other teams. Last night finally convinced me that corruption is at play. Yes, we are turd, but somebody is determined to keep us turd.

 

[UTD_Since_1978]

Yeah things went against us but after taking a 3-2 lead proper quality challenging teams would have ended up beating Copenhagen so we can't blame VAR or the ref for losing this match.