[noodlehair]

On one of the goals Dalot looks at the player several times, just like he did against Newcastle and does absolutely nothing about it until it's too late. He knows he's there, knows he should go, but does nothing. He's a brain dead defender.

The old football manager scouting report that always put you off signing a player, particularly a defensive player.

"Fairly poor intelligence on the pitch"

Honestly I've started paying more attention to him in games because I find it oddly fascinating how bad his decision making is, or how often he just completely disappears and it causes a problem, and you rewind it back to try and work out where he went but there isn't an answer. He just runs off somewhere and doesn't come back

The problem is in nearly every game at some point this either does or should cost us a goal, and it's usually an important one.

So now I spend time thinking about how much of how bad we are is down to Dalot being a liability so often that it makes it impossible for the team to build confidence or momentum, because they're never more than 20 minutes away from him either putting them under pressure or costing them a goal.

Amd I think k it's really silly to lay too much blame on one player but now I've started watching him more closely and comparing him to other fullbacks I'm convinced the whole team would look better if he wasn't there, or just did the same basic stuff other fullbacks and players do and that aren't (or shouldn't be) beyond the capability of any footballer. The main one being having a very basic awareness of where he is on the pitch in relation to everyone else....which has again reared its ugly head multiple times last night.

There was one point last night when we were a goal up, where he comes across and actually does well to cut out a ball and win possession. Then he looks up, passes it straight up the line to a Copenhagen player...OK so terrible pass but anyone can do that...then he continues running up the pitch ignoring that his pass got cut out, and they just run past him and are in behind. Like someone was controlling him on a dial up internet connection so there's a 30 second delay in his reactions. No one else in our team and no other player I can think of would do this.

 

[Oranges038]

Honestly I've started paying more attention to him in games because I find it oddly fascinating how bad his decision making is, or how often he just completely disappears and it causes a problem, and you rewind it back to try and work out where he went but there isn't an answer. He just runs off somewhere and doesn't come back

The problem is in nearly every game at some point this either does or should cost us a goal, and it's usually an important one.

So now I spend time thinking about how much of how bad we are is down to Dalot being a liability so often that it makes it impossible for the team to build confidence or momentum, because they're never more than 20 minutes away from him either putting them under pressure or costing them a goal.

Amd I think k it's really silly to lay too much blame on one player but now I've started watching him more closely and comparing him to other fullbacks I'm convinced the whole team would look better if he wasn't there, or just did the same basic stuff other fullbacks and players do and that aren't (or shouldn't be) beyond the capability of any footballer. The main one being having a very basic awareness of where he is on the pitch in relation to everyone else....which has again reared its ugly head multiple times last night.

There was one point last night when we were a goal up, where he comes across and actually does well to cut out a ball and win possession. Then he looks up, passes it straight up the line to a Copenhagen player...OK so terrible pass but anyone can do that...then he co tunes running up the pitch ignoring that his pass got cut out am they just run past him and are in behind. Like someone was controlling him on a dial up internet connection so there's a 30 second delay in his reactions. No one else in our team and no other player I can think of would do this.

In defence a lot of it is just poor awareness and body position. He turns his back on the player, when he should turn and open his body up more so he can see and react quicker.

 

[Maticmaker]

In defence a lot of it is just poor awareness and body position. He turns his back on the player, when he should turn and open his body up more so he can see and react quicker.

Yes, spot on, but in my mind his awareness in particular at corners is not just poor, for a supposed fullback its becoming suicidal. Dalot has been caught more than once or twice on the back post where he's lost his man for a split second, but its always the wrong split second. He looks for his player, sees him, then turns his back and immediately the player moves to a different position. Given that he is right-footed, you'd think when he is playing on the left his instinct would make him take the half turn stance at corners so he can balance on his left foot and pivot with his right.
We see lots of our players with similar disparities in their movements because of being one-footed, I suppose Antony is the worst example, seemingly using his right foot only to stand on. I really do wonder what sort of coaching (as opposed to training) our players are subjected to, general basic awareness, at throw-ins, corners, etc. is so obviously lacking... and has been for sometime.

 

[always_hoping]

If United and Copenhagen somehow finish level on points in the group am I right in saying the 3 goals for United last night would put them ahead of Copenhagen?

 

[Jeffthered]

As someone has mentioned, the best thing for us is to finish bottom. Forget Europe for this year. If we want CL / Europe next season, then focus, one week at a time (like Spurs..) to get back to something of a team that is worthy of joining the elite. At the moment, we are struggling to beat Burnley, Fulham, and Sheff Utd.

We need to get real here.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

If United and Copenhagen somehow finish level on points in the group am I right in saying the 3 goals for United last night would put them ahead of Copenhagen?

I was thinking about how H2H will work, then I realised we have to beat Gala away and beat Bayern at home.

4th place will do.

 

[sunama]

We need TWO top class central defenders who can play out from the back without any problems and can properly defend when required, until that happens we will leak goals like a non league outfit.

We do need some top class players, but I would argue that we have players good enough to beat Copenhagen.
Varane is absolutely top class and Maguire isn't as bad as some make out.
Rather than buying great players, destroying them, then buying another top class player to replace the destroyed player - why don't we nurture our existing players and coach them to become great?

 

[MrBest]

We were excellent until the red and with ten men were excellent second half until AWB/Dalot/Varane fecked us over.

Excellent in first half? We have a high value squad that cost a lot and we created 5 chances. As soon as the red card happened, we shipped two goals. We have do not hace a strong mentality when something goes wrong, I dont see that as excellent. Second half, we sat back with 10 behind the ball, waited the counter. I think we made 4 chances, scored a pen. We didn't even try to win the game we tried to control possession and even that, we were bad. The 2 goals we conceded, one after the other, were littered with so many flaws. We are so far away from being a serious team, injuries or not.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

ETH should tell the players to get a red card early in every match from now on.

Because judging from the reactions in here, going down to ten men absolves the coach and the squad of any responsibility and scrutiny, regardless of what happens after.

 

[gerdm07]

Just watched the replay. Just no luck this season. We were in total control playing some of our best football (yes, it's against CP) and then a very questionable red card changes everything and now we are in poor shape to make it out of group. I feel a little for ETH today because that was not his fault. He had the right lineup and had us playing smart football while stamping our dominance. Evans goes down and then a red.

- Why would Dalot not be in line with his fellow defender for the equalizer? That's football 101. If you move up you just give space for the attacker.
- Rashford was good on the right! Can't say that too often. He and AWB were looking good together. I want more of that.
- McT is playing his best football ever as a red. It's still probably not good enough for MU going forward. Kudos to him, though.
- Varane caught the same virus Casemiro has. Mediocre football is the symptom.
- Hojlund may get 15 to 20 goals this season.

 

[colombianmancunian]

We were robbed by VAR with that red card. That being said, the team crumbled after it a conceded two fecking goals. This team has the weakest mentality ever and that is a problem that comes from the coaching structure.

We also conceded after a Wan Bisaka mistake, and called into pieces after it. This team can’t maintain a result and that is sad.

The only positive is Rasmus. At least we have a number 9, but he keeps being let down by the rest of useless feckers in our squad.

 

[tjb]

You knew we'd lose once we conceded quickly after the red card. This mental strength of this side is like wet cardboard. If we score three, we'll find a way to concede four.

We also just cannot catch a break at the moment. After Højlund's second I thought we might be in for a simple night for the first time in forever, but then Rashford goes and gets an unlucky red card. The team is in such a tough spot at the moment. Nothing to build on, every game is must win, confidence is shot, injuries everywhere, etc.

I think the problem is calling it mental strength. It's not mental strength. It's being able to consistently defend and move the ball under pressure. In these instances, technique and decision-making are called into question, hence conceding. It's why Arsenal went from having a solid team in 2004 to consistently breaking down in games they were dominating in 2006. It's quality. Quality from the manager to make a tactical change down to 10 men and put the team in a good enough defensive shape to maintain their lead. Quality from midfielders to track runners and protect the spaces behind them. Quality from the defenders to read the game and clear their lines, moving the ball as far away from the defence as possible to get to half time. These things didn't happen. We could have escaped to half time if the penalty hadn't been given, but the fact that we were in the position in the first place, haphazardly trying to stoke out fires with no plan shows the larger issue.

All of these problems have plagued us all season. Our midfielders are currently not athletic or intelligent enough to tracker runners or cover spaces. Our full backs leave way too many spaces despite not being effective in our attacks. Our centre backs are very reactive and lack composure when dealing with attacking pressure. When these all these things are true, an environment is created where leads aren't safe no matter how well the team plays. In defence, we're missing Licha and Shaw. We also need to wait on Varane's fitness. The concern for me with this team is the centre midfield position. At the moment, and all season, we've gotten nothing from this area of the pitch (no.6 and no.8). Teams have been able to blow past us centrally, cut backs haven't been tracked and cut out, open spaces are available throughout the midfield and yet they don't progress the ball either. It's a complete deadzone at the moment. We've been relying too heavily on Bruno and Hojlund dropping deeper. It's not a new issue. Last season Licha and Shaw were our main ball progressors. So it's no surprise that when one or both of them are out, our football takes a hit. Even in yesterday's game, the good football came from out wide and the Bruno-Hojlund combination. We moved the ball much better across the backline, but we didn't nearly create as many chances because vertical flow of play was disrupted by our midfield's lack of presence.

 

[stefan92]

I think the problem is calling it mental strength. It's not mental strength. It's being able to consistently defend and move the ball under pressure.

Isn't tha what people mean with "mental strength"? The ability to keep performing under pressure?

 

[always_hoping]

I was thinking about how H2H will work, then I realised we have to beat Gala away and beat Bayern at home.

4th place will do.

Won't come down to the head to head if United was to win their remaining matches as Copenhagen's possible point totals are 10,8,6,5,4. As it stands if Copenhagen win their remaining game they'll will finish 2nd regardless what United do. They have Bayern away next but it will likely be a 2nd string Bayern and finish off at home to Galatasaray so two very winnable games for them.

 

[USREDEVIL]

I was thinking about how H2H will work, then I realised we have to beat Gala away and beat Bayern at home.

4th place will do.

We will lose both games. Maybe get a draw, but probably lose.

 

[Still ill]

I came away as frustrated as everyone else last night and I understand why there's no patience for excuses at this point. He really has been cursed with bad luck this season though. Did feel like he'd got the set up spot on last night. We were purring, looked solid, Bruno flying, pressing effectively, Copenhagen absolutely rattled. Lost Johnny, red card, terrible goal, poxy penalty. If he had any hair, he'd be tearing it out. So you know, I still feel there's stuff going on, everyone's still trying. Or almost everyone. I really feel the 'but we're United' shite can be canned at this point. We're a struggling mid table side till we're not.

 

[Nicoseth]

We will lose both games. Maybe get a draw, but probably lose.

That's the spirit.

 

[Nicoseth]

Shite result, but what a player Hojlund looks. Still got a lot to work on but he could be special.

 

[USREDEVIL]

That's the spirit.

Feck spirit.

 

[gaffs]

As someone has mentioned, the best thing for us is to finish bottom. Forget Europe for this year. If we want CL / Europe next season, then focus, one week at a time (like Spurs..) to get back to something of a team that is worthy of joining the elite. At the moment, we are struggling to beat Burnley, Fulham, and Sheff Utd.

We need to get real here.

I disagree. I want to watch United game, good or bad. Would rather have Thursday night football than non at all.

 

[anderstheanimal]

I am a dane and even worse f.c Copenhagen fan so biased af.

But I simple cannot see how the ref was supposedly so bad.

The red card: you see those given every week

The penalty: similar situations and he gave one to each team for similar situations

 

[Belisarius]

ETH claiming Copenhagen's first goal should have been called back for off-side because their player, who is clearly in an off-side position, is blocking the sightline of Onana. I just watched it over again and if they called McTominay's goal back on the weekend because Harry was interfering with play then he is right that this one should have been also.

Haven't seen much discussion of this. What do other people think of this claim?

 

[USREDEVIL]

I am a dane and even worse f.c Copenhagen fan so biased af.

But I simple cannot see how the ref was supposedly so bad.

The red card: you see those given every week

The penalty: similar situations and he gave one to each team for similar situations

I think he was fine. He was a bit harsh on Rashford, but Rashford extended his leg out, not going for the ball but to shield it i think, and it was just bad luck he caught the player's leg. Still, those are usually called.
The handballs were both reasonable calls.

 

[AndySmith1990]

As someone has mentioned, the best thing for us is to finish bottom. Forget Europe for this year. If we want CL / Europe next season, then focus, one week at a time (like Spurs..) to get back to something of a team that is worthy of joining the elite. At the moment, we are struggling to beat Burnley, Fulham, and Sheff Utd.

We need to get real here.

I find it incredible that we spend all season fretting about getting top 4 and eventually celebrating achieving it, only to end up a few months later hoping we finish bottom of the group because our squad is too shit to handle the PL and Europa league

 

[Jeffthered]

I find it incredible that we spend all season fretting about getting top 4 and eventually celebrating achieving it, only to end up a few months later hoping we finish bottom of the group because our squad is too shit to handle the PL and Europa league

It isn't a situation that I think is ideal, but circumstances are as they are. We have players unfit, returning from injury, and we are struggling. If, if we get the Europa spot, then I would just play youngsters and fringe players.. DVDB etc...

 

[Waynne]

We were very good before the red card. I think it was the first time I've seen the plan actually working. Our transition was excellent and we actually finished off chances. We also passed the ball around swiftly and sharply.

This is that rare loss where I actually can't blame any of the players. Well, except maybe for Dalot for switching off but it is what it is.

I get that but then it shows our lack of mental strength to completely fall apart after the card.

I really want to see us succeed but it seems we're a team of weak minded invididuals who down tools the moment something goes wrong.

 

[frostbite]

It is not "mental strength". It is practice. It is knowing what to do in a given situation, which is something that you learn when you repeat the same thing over and over in practice sessions.

Our players do not need "mental strength". They need a top manager.

 

[stefan92]

It isn't a situation that I think is ideal, but circumstances are as they are. We have players unfit, returning from injury, and we are struggling. If, if we get the Europa spot, then I would just play youngsters and fringe players.. DVDB etc...

I really don't get this. Yes, United is struggling with injuries and that is a factor why they are so shit at the moment (though surely not the only one).

But why wouldn't you want to try staying in Europe and try to win the EL if you stay in it? Knockouts are next year when everyone is fit again and the squad should be at full strength. Any fan who doesn't want United to try to win this doesn't deserve United winning anything ever again imho.

 

[Captmfla]

" The result also marked the first time in European competition that the Red Devils lost a game when leading by multiple goals, having won 78 times and drawn twice in previous instances"
-espn

 

[Smithy89]

Normally I would agree with you, and I would agree if the red was the only issue. But it wasnt. First that is never red. Next their goal is offside. And then they get a ridiculous penalty.
We then later get an equally dumb one. But Vavro also doesnt get sent off after elbowing Højlund in the face.
We got shafted all match long. I only blame the players for the last two goals. But overall this was a ref that ruined the game.

Liverpool beat Newcastle away with 10 men, i don't want to hear excuses when you're 2-0 up and bottle it.

 

[Jeffthered]

I really don't get this. Yes, United is struggling with injuries and that is a factor why they are so shit at the moment (though surely not the only one).

But why wouldn't you want to try staying in Europe and try to win the EL if you stay in it? Knockouts are next year when everyone is fit again and the squad should be at full strength. Any fan who doesn't want United to try to win this doesn't deserve United winning anything ever again imho.

Because the strain on a very thin squad, of, unfortunately, limited quality and lacking confidence suggests we take a step back and try and put together a solid Premiership campaign and hope for a favourably FA Cup run. I cannot give us much of a chance in the Europa league, sorry, not unless there is a drastic improvement...We need to be realistic, just basing this on what I am seeing this season.

It's not ideal as I stated, but embarrasing really..look at Brighton strolling through their Europa group and they also have a pretty bad injury list.

 

[Captmfla]

I really don't get this. Yes, United is struggling with injuries and that is a factor why they are so shit at the moment (though surely not the only one).

But why wouldn't you want to try staying in Europe and try to win the EL if you stay in it? Knockouts are next year when everyone is fit again and the squad should be at full strength. Any fan who doesn't want United to try to win this doesn't deserve United winning anything ever again imho.

The players are clearly aiming for Europa. It's almost like they don't want to qualify for Champ league and want to land nicely on position 3.

 

[Lyng]

Liverpool beat Newcastle away with 10 men, i don't want to hear excuses when you're 2-0 up and bottle it.

If the same amount of ref errors happened to Liverpool in that game they wouldnt have.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

Liverpool beat Newcastle away with 10 men, i don't want to hear excuses when you're 2-0 up and bottle it.

That's probably more of an anomaly than winning with 10 men with a lead.

 

[Smithy89]

If the same amount of ref errors happened to Liverpool in that game they wouldnt have.

Maybe we should stop blaming refs and var and stop the footballing and management errors we have every single game.

 

[Lyng]

Maybe we should stop blaming refs and var and stop the footballing and management errors we have every single game.

Sure. But I am going to keep callong out VAR until it's removed. I dont believe in conspiracies but it's ruining football. Look at Liverpool vs Toulouse.

 

[Buster15]

The players are clearly aiming for Europa. It's almost like they don't want to qualify for Champ league and want to land nicely on position 3.

That isn't clear at all.