[prtk0811]

Luke Shaw is not as bad that he could not have put a better performance than blind in this game.

 

[Salus Populi Suprema Lex]

Luke Shaw is not as bad that he could not have put a better performance than blind in this game.

God knows what's happening with Shaw. If Jose doesn't want him, make it clear.

 

[Kostur]

Several players had another chance to prove themselves last night, but once again they blew it. They weren't thrown in against Real Madrid; it was a Basel game without any pressure. It's getting tiresome and a number of them have run out of chances for me; it's time to get ruthless. We're carrying too many passengers in the squad.

Yup, problem is that we're in no place at the moment that we can get ruthless as we simply don't have proper options to take over those who'd get axed. Another problem, or actually two, for me are: too many players are looking to carry the ball and technique. I mean the first is rather pretty straightforward, it's not a problem for me if the midfield (Pogba, Matić, Herrera, whatever) want to carry the ball, it's rather normal and expected from them especially if the teams park the bus. But when you're playing both Martial and Lingard who also are ball carriers, then it's starting to be too much of a problem. We can complain, and to a certain extent rightfully so, about our fullbacks being shite but those types of players just don't help them, quite of then they have to kill their overlap because either of them starts carrying it around, coming inside, not passing it with a straight pass to the fullback. Same thing applies to Ibra/Rashford/Miki, I don't think that Lukaku or Mata overdo it.

Technique is a bit more tricky but when you're watching a match, there's a massive gap in terms of technical ability between say Pogba and the rest of the squad, as seen yesterday. The way bounces for some of our players at times is really worrying, inability to work in tight spaces, Pogba can do it all, from our squad I think that only Mata is capable of reaching the same game, the rest are below them to varying extents and levels so to say. Most of them need that extra touch, extra second to control the ball and put themselves in the attacking position, with any semi-to-high pressing it's either getting them dispossessed or they are forced to pass the ball back. There was this 'Those simple things' thread somewhere around here some time ago, I'd say it'd be high time to bump it after yesterday.

 

[prtk0811]

Jose mourinho must realize that he just can't trust the likes of smalling and rojo and the leaser full backs to defend defend defend because as squad players they are not good enough to keep a clean sheet for him as they always have at least 1 goal to conceed in them with poor technique poor attitude and poor intelligence in them.

Even if you play for a draw , you can not give away possession initiative to others because the reactive defense will always let him down.

 

[Kostur]

Luke Shaw is not as bad that he could not have put a better performance than blind in this game.

He couldn't look better than most of the players in the u-23 games, the shit we're apparently in is i.a. due to having fecking wasters as him as our backup.

 

[prtk0811]

He couldn't look better than most of the players in the u-23 games, the shit we're apparently in is i.a. due to having fecking wasters as him as our backup.

Did u watch u23 games?

 

[Kostur]

Did u watch u23 games?

No, but I've watched all the games Shaw featured in ever since he got here (wasn't too hard due to low number of them) so given how mediocre/shit he has been apart from those magical 8 or so games before the leg-breaker I can rest assured that the others who had time to watch the game were not lying when they've said he looked shit.

 

[Roosney]

Fullbacks and Lingard were so rusty. Actually some of our players looked like playing together for the first time.

 

[prtk0811]

No, but I've watched all the games Shaw featured in ever since he got here (wasn't too hard due to low number of them) so given how mediocre/shit he has been apart from those magical 8 or so games before the leg-breaker I can rest assured that the others who had time to watch the game were not lying when they've said he looked shit.

i have only seen him caught defensively twice that too only last season against city and watford before he was dropped. Even in first season i hardly remember as a defender he was directly responsible for conceeding a goal. Offensive wise he can do a lot better i know. But he has never played since than that i could judge him properly at which level he plays.

 

[prtk0811]

Yup, problem is that we're in no place at the moment that we can get ruthless as we simply don't have proper options to take over those who'd get axed. Another problem, or actually two, for me are: too many players are looking to carry the ball and technique. I mean the first is rather pretty straightforward, it's not a problem for me if the midfield (Pogba, Matić, Herrera, whatever) want to carry the ball, it's rather normal and expected from them especially if the teams park the bus. But when you're playing both Martial and Lingard who also are ball carriers, then it's starting to be too much of a problem. We can complain, and to a certain extent rightfully so, about our fullbacks being shite but those types of players just don't help them, quite of then they have to kill their overlap because either of them starts carrying it around, coming inside, not passing it with a straight pass to the fullback. Same thing applies to Ibra/Rashford/Miki, I don't think that Lukaku or Mata overdo it.

Technique is a bit more tricky but when you're watching a match, there's a massive gap in terms of technical ability between say Pogba and the rest of the squad, as seen yesterday. The way bounces for some of our players at times is really worrying, inability to work in tight spaces, Pogba can do it all, from our squad I think that only Mata is capable of reaching the same game, the rest are below them to varying extents and levels so to say. Most of them need that extra touch, extra second to control the ball and put themselves in the attacking position, with any semi-to-high pressing it's either getting them dispossessed or they are forced to pass the ball back. There was this 'Those simple things' thread somewhere around here some time ago, I'd say it'd be high time to bump it after yesterday.

Our winning record with mata and without mata has a stark difference as he only misses big games where he becomes a limited player and we lack fineese and better final third play as a result. Really has become a issue of how to use him properly.

 

[Water Melon]

I think Jose was as much at fault for our goal as our Fullbacks. Taking of Martial to bring on Ibra left a gaping hole on our right wing as Lukaku played that position for all of 3 secs. That is why Darmian got caught in a 2 on 1 situation. NO doubt he could have tried harder to stop the ball from coming in and Blind could tried harder to get to the ball.
For someone who talks so much about balance as an excuse not to play Rashford and Martial in the same starting 11, How did Jose allow the team to be so imbalanced for the last 10 mins when were playing with virtually no right winger, 2 number 10s in Fellani and Ibra and 2 DM in Matic and Herrera.

Pretty accurate analysis.

 

[Darkhorsez]

I didn’t get to watch the game. Just finished seeing the extended highlights. I have no idea why we are having a melt down again. Seriously guys, let’s just calm down. A bit of luck and better finishing, we should have been up by at least 2 goals and that would have been game over. I think some of the frustrations, which is absolutely understandable, are leading to poor calls for wholesale changes again. I’d like to focus on how good it is to have Rojo back again. The few bits I saw, he looked really good!

 

[GM K]

I’m not sure what your point is. That every time Jose wants to play for a draw, he gets a draw? And the fact that he lost tonight means he was trying to win?

Taking off Pogba for Matic is an indication that you’re willing to sit back and concede some control of the game. Defend and block attacks instead of creating them and maintaining possession higher up the field.

I’m not even talking about style of football here. I’m talking about the very clear satisfaction with a potential draw after seeing the chances missed in the first half.

Oh, come on mate. We all agree the play was crap but I see no proof of Jose playing for a draw. Just mere speculations. Pogba's substitution could have had everything to do with preserving him rather than going defensive. I was happy when he was removed because the last one week has shown how crucial he is to our team. The Brighton, Arsenal and Man City games ahead are far more important than yesterday's game. Moreover, Jose said he expected Matic's introduction to maintain our balance. He didn't see he was trying to play for a draw. I don't think you bring in players like Rashford and Zlatan because you want to close shop and draw.

My take is that the team simply had a very bad second half and once again, we saw how average a number of our fringe players are. If Jose wanted to play for a draw, we know how he would have set up the team even if they eventually lose.

 

[Salus Populi Suprema Lex]

Oh, come on mate. We all agree the play was crap but I see no proof of Jose playing for a draw. Just mere speculations. Pogba's substitution could have had everything to do with preserving him rather than going defensive. I was happy when he was removed because the last one week has shown how crucial he is to our team. The Brighton, Arsenal and Man City games ahead are far more important than yesterday's game. Moreover, Jose said he expected Matic's introduction to maintain our balance. He didn't see he was trying to play for a draw. I don't think you bring in players like Rashford and Zlatan because you want to close shop and draw.

My take is that the team simply had a very bad second half and once again, we saw how average a number of our fringe players are. If Jose wanted to play for a draw, we know how he would have set up the team even if they eventually lose.

Good post

 

[JG3001]

It’s kinda funny how everyone is discussing the 3rd place finish as a real possibility now, we’re at home to a team we beat 4-1 away, and need to lose by a minimum of 4/5 goals? not gonna happen.

I understand the annoyance wrt to our performances though, this 2nd half drop off has been a recurrent theme.

 

[haram]

Oh, come on mate. We all agree the play was crap but I see no proof of Jose playing for a draw. Just mere speculations. Pogba's substitution could have had everything to do with preserving him rather than going defensive. I was happy when he was removed because the last one week has shown how crucial he is to our team. The Brighton, Arsenal and Man City games ahead are far more important than yesterday's game. Moreover, Jose said he expected Matic's introduction to maintain our balance. He didn't see he was trying to play for a draw. I don't think you bring in players like Rashford and Zlatan because you want to close shop and draw.

My take is that the team simply had a very bad second half and once again, we saw how average a number of our fringe players are. If Jose wanted to play for a draw, we know how he would have set up the team even if they eventually lose.

It's in everyone's head that everything he does is defensive, so any small thing such as taking Pogba off, people go overboard.

 

[Siorac]

God knows what's happening with Shaw. If Jose doesn't want him, make it clear.

How much clearer can he make it?

 

[Salus Populi Suprema Lex]

How much clearer can he make it?

Put him in with the reserves permanently and move him on asap. It seems pointless putting him on the bench and giving him ten minutes here and there, if he has no future here.

 

[GM K]

So in our last 9 games we have:

Won 5
Lost 3
Drawn 1

We need a change in form fast before we go to Arsenal and host City otherwise, we'll spend the rest of the season fighting for fourth position.

 

[Marcky411]

Treated it like a friendly against a team treating it like a cup final. Got what we deserved.

I fully agree, from the beginning this game had draw written all over it. Except for 25 min in the first half otherwise there was no intention of winning this one. Tactics of the manager (starting to get a bit irritated with his tactics), needed a draw to get to the next round went for a draw.
There was so much complacency in the team it was frustrating to watch at times. Happy for Basel, they got what they deserved and we got what we deserved. I believe we will put this to bed at OT, Mourinho won't want to risk it.
I see some people already calling for Mourinho out, which is really over reacting but I must say looking at the tactics and performances last season and especially since the Liverpool game, I for one won't be upset the day he leaves. Something broke in Mourinho with his second outing at Chelsea and all the drama leading up to him being sacked. Now it seems we have a shell of the manager he once was, he shows very little fight in him and that is showing on the field.

 

[prtk0811]

You seriously think our problems are that we don't defend well enough? I don't even think that the highlighted part is true but if it was, it would be the same as every single top team in the world. Why do you think you constantly hear people moaning about how "proper" defending is dead. The best teams aim to control the midfield so as to they have to do as little defending as possible. As I said, I am not even sure that we are set up like that but if we were, you can hardly criticize a defence that conceded 2 goals in 5 CL games and 6 in 12 PL games.

We can surely critisize the defense this game for letting that goal so late on. Jose played for a point in the end and the defenders let in down. Not just darmian but entire backline. The ball went through smallings feet which was the case last game to against newcastle, rojo too missed it ( as it was his but his first game back you can expect that from him pretty much) and blind who let his marker run past him pretty eaisily.

And personally i have had enough with smallings inconsistancy and mediocrity and lack of intelligence. No wonder he has been dropped from england squad.

Jose is at fault too for reverting to plan B here , He trusts mediocre players like smalling way too much by gong reactive and he'll always let him down.

 

[FCBarca]

Can't underestimate Basel at St. Jakob park. How did Akanji look?

 

[Treble]

Apparently, the team got tired in the second half. The first half was good because the movement was good. The work rate continues to be suspect. This is a bigger problem for this team than the absence/injuries of some players.

 

[prtk0811]

Apparently, the team got tired in the second half. The first half was good because the movement was good. The work rate continues to be suspect. This is a bigger problem for this team than the absence/injuries of some players.

It was a combination of that and jose's Play for a point mentality in this game which the defense is not good enough to carry out. The balme goes to the entire team including the manager for lack of professionalism in this game.

 

[prtk0811]

We all agree the play was crap but I see no proof of Jose playing for a draw.

He himself mentions it in the post match presser.

 

[Treble]

The bad thing from yesterday wasn't the loss which was a but unlucky but the loss of momentum from the previous game.

The message should have been that with Pogba, Zlatan, Rojo and Fellaini back United are embarking on a winning run and the away form will be much better.

 

[edgar allan]

We were cruising in the first half so i left to do something else. What the hell happened?

Whats the portugese for " Shut up shop?

 

[prtk0811]

The bad thing from yesterday wasn't the loss which was a but unlucky but the loss of momentum from the previous game.

The message should have been that with Pogba, Zlatan, Rojo and Fellaini back United are embarking on a winning run and the away form will be much better.

Loss was as bad , now we have to take the game against moscow seriously and we play mancity before that fixture.

 

[buckooo1978]

we will smash Spartak.....

the real issue in this game though was that we could have heavily rotated in the next game which is sandwiched between Arsenal away and City at home

 

[Siorac]

Whats the portugese for " Shut up shop?

If we shut up shop, we did it terribly. We were carved open over and over again in the second half.

 

[Hambley]

I hate losing but the reality is we didn't lose a champions league final. Especially, I hate losing by conceding a goal on last minutes. Not that Basel totally outplayed us, it's just about losing concentration of our defenders. They did the same a few times this season and unfortunately they still keep doing the same. Jones and Baily probably wouldn't let that goal to happen but that is irrelevant cause we conceded it and must solve the problem.

We still need only a point to be the 1st in the group though I take it that Jose will try to beat CSKA at Old Trafford. No need to worry about it. Yeah, we could finish anything yesterday but... But a group stage adventure goes on. The team kept an intrigue to make the last match very attractive.

 

[Siorac]

we will smash Spartak.....

the real issue in this game though was that we could have heavily rotated in the next game which is sandwiched between Arsenal away and City at home

Maybe but what about CSKA?

 

[prtk0811]

we will smash Spartak.....

the real issue in this game though was that we could have heavily rotated in the next game which is sandwiched between Arsenal away and City at home

Sandwitched between arsenal and city? Goodness gracious..makes this result a worse.

 

[Escobar]

Our problem is our attacking play and that our back up players are just not good enough. Jose is unable to instill an attacking game plan in our team and it starts to look like he never will. Going forward, we're just shit, boring and predictable. I dont know how many times we play it backwards but it looks like a proper LVG set up

 

[Ish]

So have we won our group yet? I read somewhere head to head comes in first (might be wrong though)? So surely (unless a massive blooper against CSKA) our head to head against Basel and CSKA means we above both of them? Or how does the permutations work? But just a quick look at the table and our GD is also very positive.

 

[prtk0811]

Just look at how many chances we miss, How much poor lack of Positioning and movement some players have , How the lack of gritty attitude decides little moments to be a goal and opportunities missed.

The whole team was below par and we payed the heavy price for it when jose reverted to shut up shop because of poor attitude of the attacking players which was also a reason to invite pressure after pressure and one leaked with shabby defending.

Blind never overlapped, Martial's off the ball movement and positioning was pathetic, Finishing and awareness low grade, Not giving 100% in aerial duels and keep missing headers at both ends.

 

[prtk0811]

So have we won our group yet? I read somewhere head to head comes in first (might be wrong though)? So surely (unless a massive blooper against CSKA) our head to head against Basel and CSKA means we above both of them? Or how does the permutations work? But just a quick look at the table and our GD is also very positive.

Its not about that , But now we have to play seriously against cska moscow to not loose and that game is sandwitched between arsenal and city fixture where we have to play our first team with best players in all 3 games.

Such a lack of sense and professional attitude.

 

[Oldyella]

I hate losing but the reality is we didn't lose a champions league final. Especially, I hate losing by conceding a goal on last minutes. Not that Basel totally outplayed us, it's just about losing concentration of our defenders. They did the same a few times this season and unfortunately they still keep doing the same. Jones and Baily probably wouldn't let that goal to happen but that is irrelevant cause we conceded it and must solve the problem.

We still need only a point to be the 1st in the group though I take it that Jose will try to beat CSKA at Old Trafford. No need to worry about it. Yeah, we could finish anything yesterday but... But a group stage adventure goes on. The team kept an intrigue to make the last match very attractive.

Not sure how Jones and Bailly stop that goal, unless they are playing fb positions.

 

[Ish]

Its not about that , But now we have to play seriously against cska moscow to not loose and that game is sandwitched between arsenal and city fixture where we have to play our first team with best players in all 3 games.

Such a lack of sense and professional attitude.

Nah I'm not disputing that at all bud. I agree with you. Having qualification and first place wrapped up would have been ideal and we could have seriously rested players against CSKA. Now it's still a serious match.

I'd just be a tad more relieved if we (sort of) still have 1st place sorted. But as I understand, mathematically at least, we're not even safe, let alone top of the group? Or how do the permutations work?

 

[prtk0811]

Not sure how Jones and Bailly stop that goal, unless they are playing fb positions.

They would have not let the ball between their legs go like smalling did and rojo missed and blind let market overrun.