[Ban]

This might really affect us in the league. Now we have a serious game sandwiched between Arsenal and City and it did not have to be after we put in the hard work of winning the first 4 games. We will qualify and win the group but the league games against Arsenal and City will be affected by this. Very annoying.

We can field a weakened team I feel and still get a result.

 

[deafepl]

That's why I said Jose is stupid for disrespecting Basel with that formation. we should've won a game with our A teams. we screwed chance and have to play games again to quality before City games.

 

[Theonas]

We can field a weakened team I feel and still get a result.

We can but I don't think we will. Last year I remember the away game to St-Étienne where we had won 3/0 the first leg and we still went with a side that had Mkhitaryan, Pogba and Ibra. Mourinho will simply not want to take any chances there.

 

[Peanut Butter]

2nd rate competitions.
United are not competing for major titles and Jose is afraid to compete with decent teams.
You can say I've had a shocker all you want.


Yeah what's that got to do with Jose. ?
Nothing.

Jose out

Who do we appoint as manager then? Who else is 'competing for major trophies' apart from Pep Guardiola?

 

[Dhananjay Baijal]

I suppose if CSKA Moscow, somehow manage to lead by 4 goals, they'll shut up shop and be happy to qualify second and not risk conceding a goal and going out..Only Manchester United can win their 4 first games and still have to wait till the end of the 6th game to secure qualification..

 

[horsechoker]

Rooney was anonymous tonight

 

[red4ever11]

We have an awfully long way to go before we are champions league contenders!!

 

[Ban]

Jose out

Repeat that 3 more times.

 

[siw2007]

A game we probably should have won in the first half. We wasted our chances and paid for it. They had nothing to lose in the second half and we couldn’t get to grips with them in the end.

Rojo made a very good return but was disappointed with Lukaku.

 

[Ban]

I suppose if CSKA Moscow, somehow manage to lead by 4 goals, they'll shut up shop and be happy to qualify second and not risk conceding a goal and going out..Only Manchester United can win their 4 first games and still have to wait till the end of the 6th game to secure qualification..

That's pretty realistic I'm afraid.

 

[Leftback99]

Same as usual, the attackers and midfielders play like they've never seen each other before. Pogba only makes a small difference.

 

[Seven Seas Sardines]

I suppose if CSKA Moscow, somehow manage to lead by 4 goals, they'll shut up shop and be happy to qualify second and not risk conceding a goal and going out..Only Manchester United can win their 4 first games and still have to wait till the end of the 6th game to secure qualification..

If Basel beat Benfica, and we lose by 4, we'll still win the group. If Basel fail to beat Benfica, a 4 goal-margin will see CSKA win the group and us finish 2nd.

If Basel beat Benfica away from home....

• We lose by 7 goals we go out... H2H GD: MU -2, Basel -1, CSKA +3
• We lose by 5 goals we finish 2nd... H2H GD: MU 0, Basel -1, CSKA +1
• We lose by 4 goals we finish 1st... H2H GD: MU +1, Basel -1, CSKA 0

 

[SirMonteyne]

Boss tried to defend against Basel which is understandable. We need to find out our defensive flaws before the big matches in this tournament, there will be a days that we must keep the result for any price.

 

[Okey]

CSKA brat this lot in Basel. CSKA are possibly the worst team in this competition. Nothing more needs to be said really. How Darmian is a top flight professional footballer, never mind United player, is a puzzle I'll never solve. Why can' we just play good football aimed at winning all the time. This was fecking Basel!!! I' so sick of this. Been a long time a football match made me this angry.

 

[Frank Grimes]

We have a very average squad and play shit on a stick football. Second half tonight actually made me angry.

 

[GM K]

I saw absolutely no indication of any attempt at attacking play in the 2nd half. So if you did, you’re lucky, I wish I did too.

So Jose tells his team at half time, 'boys, go for the draw. Forget about winning'. Meanwhile, he replaces fumbling Lingard with Rashford and replaces unimpressive Martial with Zlatan. Matic also comes in and ends up spending a lot of time in the opponent's half.

We all know Jose when he wants to play for a draw. No one parks the bus better.

 

[Dhananjay Baijal]

If Basel beat Benfica, and we lose by 4, we'll still win the group. If Basel fail to beat Benfica, a 4 goal-margin will see CSKA win the group and us finish 2nd.

Yeah that was my point, CSKA only need to win by 4 goals to qualify, they wouldn't risk going for more. We should actually score 4 Own Goals and dare them to score more. Joking They'll probably show our players, what defending a result and parking the bus really is.

 

[deafepl]

If Basel beat Benfica away from home....

• We lose by 7 goals we go out... H2H GD: MU -2, Basel -1, CSKA +3
• We lose by 5 goals we finish 2nd... H2H GD: MU 0, Basel -1, CSKA +1
• We lose by 4 goals we finish 1st... H2H GD: MU +1, Basel -1, CSKA 0

Also, if Basel and United have same points on same goal difference in the mini-league between CSKA, Basel and us, we'd qualify for the knockout stages on the head to head but not winning the groups. Basel will be out from this groups and CSKA win the groups based on goal difference

 

[RedDevil@84]

How do we go out if we lose by 7 goals. Doesn't H2H come before GD

 

[Seven Seas Sardines]

Yeah that was my point, CSKA only need to win by 4 goals to qualify, they wouldn't risk going for more. We should actually score 4 Own Goals and dare them to score more. Joking They'll probably show our players, what defending a result and parking the bus really is.

True! A shame we still don't have Falcao to whisper the standings to the Russians.

 

[Seven Seas Sardines]

How do we go out if we lose by 7 goals. Doesn't H2H come before GD

H2H between all 3 teams (6 games)

 

[Ban]

H2H between all 3 teams (6 games)

I don't get a part about 7 goals. I mean we have a better h2h vs Basel so we can be 2nd at worst if CSKA beat us 4:0?

 

[automaticflare]

Rooney was anonymous tonight

Lock thread end of discussion right here

 

[Siorac]

H2H between all 3 teams (6 games)

This concept seems to be fecking with people's heads.

 

[shaggy]

Are we really debating if we are through or not. We are not conceding 5 at home with no reply to fecking moscow. I imagine even the U21s would qualify comfortably.

 

[Seven Seas Sardines]

I don't get a part about 7 goals. I mean we have a better h2h vs Basel so we can be 2nd at worst if CSKA beat us 4:0?

Exactly. We need to lose by 7 to go out if Basel wins.

 

[Seven Seas Sardines]

Are we really debating if we are through or not. We are not conceding 5 at home with no reply to fecking moscow. I imagine even the U21s would qualify comfortably.

Of course we won't lose by 4+ goals, but it still means we can't really put only reserves out (nor Blind and Darmian for that matter).

 

[Okey]

We'll qualify. Probably top the group. No doubt there. Doesn' take away from unnecessarily frustrating night. Another of too many so far. United are better than this. Why are we being made to accept less?

 

[shaky]

I don't get a part about 7 goals. I mean we have a better h2h vs Basel so we can be 2nd at worst if CSKA beat us 4:0?

Basel have a better H2H against CSKA though, so if we lose 4-0 to CSKA and Basel win, each team will be on 12 points with one better and one worse H2H against the other 2 teams, so it's still all tied.

 

[maheve]

United 3 2 0 1 7-2 5 6
Basel 4 2 0 2 4-5 -1 6
CSKA 3 1 0 2 3-7 -4 3

CSKA - United 1-4

If we lose with ...

• 1-2 goals = first place
• 3 goals where CSKA scores 3 or 4 goals = first place
• 3 goals where CSKA scores 5 or more goals = first place if Basel win
• 3 goals where CSKA scores 5 or more goals = second place if Basel doesn't win
• 4 goals = first place if Basel win
• 4 goals = second place if Basel doesn't win
• 5-6 goals = second place
• 7 or more goals = second place if Basel doesn't win
• 7 or more goals = Europa League if Basel beats Benfica away

Also, CSKA would be happy with a 3 goal win as that puts them above Basel.

Team should be

Romero
Darmian - Lindelof - Tuanzebe - Blind - Shaw
McTominay - Carrick
Mata - Wilson - Lingard

 

[Seven Seas Sardines]

Basel have a better H2H against CSKA though, so if we lose 4-0 to CSKA and Basel win, each team will be on 12 points with one better and one worse H2H against the other 2 teams, so it's still all tied.

If that happens we win the group, since our H2H with Basel is +2 and CSKA's -1.

 

[RoadTrip]

Think the particularly frustrating thing is the games either side of our last CL game are tough ones (away at Arsenal, Home against City), where we really could have done with the opportunity to rest our players.

 

[shaky]

If that happens we win the group, since our H2H with Basel is +2 and CSKA's -1.

Don't think they count that though. It just comes down to overall goal difference in the 3 team mini league in that situation. Still leaves us needing to not lose by 5 to win the group, or not lose by 7 to finish 2nd.

 

[Seven Seas Sardines]

Don't think they count that though. It just comes down to overall goal difference in the 3 team mini league in that situation. Still leaves us needing to not lose by 5 to win the group, or not lose by 7 to finish 2nd.

Exactly. If we lose 4-0....

MU: +2 vs Basel, -1 vs CSKA = +1
CSKA: +1 vs MU, -1 vs Basel = 0
Basel: -2 vs MU, +1 vs CSKA = -1

It's not rocket science..

 

[Ekkie Thump]

Don't think of it as a head to head, that is misleading. It is in fact a mini league between the teams that end up on the same points.

This mini league would be based on the following criteria (in order):

1. Points between the three:

Basel and CSKA have both beaten each other and if CSKA win at Old Trafford each team would have the same number of points (6) so it would come down to...​

2. Goal difference between the three:

Currently that would be:
Utd: + 5
Basel: -1
CSKA: -4​

Basel have finished their mini-league and cannot improve this or any other relevant statistic. They are and will remain further behind in every criterion following this one and so absolutely must overhaul Utd on goal difference alone. As you can see CSKA would have to beat Utd by seven clear goals for Basel to finish ahead of Utd. Utd finishing on -1 would not be enough for them See the next criterion for exactly why. In order to pass Utd themselves CSKA must win by 5 clear goals.​

3. Total goals scored between the three.

Currently that would be:
Utd: 7
Basel:3
CSKA:3

As you can see Basel will always be behind in this criterion.
​

All further criteria are irrelevant. (edited because I ballsed it up)

Here is a link to the relevant UEFA pdf. The relevant section is 17.01

If two or more teams are equal on points on completion of the group matches, the following criteria are applied in the order given to determine their rankings:

a. higher number of points obtained in the group matches played among the teams in question;

b. superior goal difference from the group matches played among the teams in question;

c. higher number of goals scored in the group matches played among the teams in question;

d. higher number of goals scored away from home in the group matches played among the teams in question;

e. if, after having applied criteria a) to d), teams still have an equal ranking, criteria a) to d) are reapplied exclusively to the matches between the teams in question to determine their final rankings. If this procedure does not lead to a decision, criteria f) to l) apply;​

​

 

[The Mad Manc]

This was just ridiculously stupid. Could have rested players against CSKA but I guess we would just rather have to play a full XI a couple of days before the derby whilst City (who seem to be the considerably less stupid team) get to play their U23s if they want to.

This is my major beef. The CSKA game is sandwiched between Arsenal away and City at home. We should have been in a position to rest a lot of players.

 

[Sarni]

Are people really worried that we lose by 4+ goals to CSKA at home?

 

[marukomu]

Are people really worried that we lose by 4+ goals to CSKA at home?

You know what it's like on here. A fecking meteorite will be hitting us after we lose.

 

[deafepl]

I suppose if CSKA Moscow, somehow manage to lead by 4 goals, they'll shut up shop and be happy to qualify second and not risk conceding a goal and going out..Only Manchester United can win their 4 first games and still have to wait till the end of the 6th game to secure qualification..

That's pretty realistic I'm afraid.

That's unlikely, assuming they have to win the head to head first and Basel beat Benfica

The mini league on goal difference: United 5+, Basel -1, CSKA -5.

1. United can gift CSKA a goal by 4 goals and would win the groups, CSKA will be eliminated from the groups due to the head to head against Basel. Basel can go through up

2. They would need to score against us by 5 goals meaning Basel will be eliminated, CSKA to win the group with head to head against us and we finish as runner-up

3. if CSKA managed to win a game against us by 7 or more goals margin, we would be eliminated from the groups, CSKA win groups to go through the next knockout stages and Basel finish as runner-up.

4. CSKA beat us and Benfica beat Basel. CSKA and we will be going through the knockout stages. One of two teams with the same point will win the groups based on the head to head.

 

[breakout67]

We were cruising in the first half so i left to do something else. What the hell happened?