[Leethal]

That's because the majority want him gone therefore are gutted we've won.

But yeah played well and won. Better than losing innit.

Pretty much.

Our fan base are a bunch of entitled cnuts, and would happily cut off their nose to spite their face.

 

[Marcus]

Dalot on the right is a must. From worst United player when playing LB to being one of our greatest assets back on the right. Should keep his place there. Love the comeback win.

 

[NewGlory]

Very happy with the game

Zirkzee should have made it 3-1 (or Dalot but Dalot is not a striker so gets an excuse).

Not sure what is wrong with Zirkzee and his abysmal finishing. Really hoping it is like Onana last year, where he needed more time and is now tolerably ok. Worst case, we signed another Antony, but let's hope that is not the case since he is still new and adjusting

 

[cyril C]

Very happy with the game

Zirkzee should have made it 3-1 (or Dalot but Dalot is not a striker so gets an excuse).

Not sure what is wrong with Zirkzee and his abysmal finishing. Really hoping it is like Onana last year, where he needed more time and is now tolerably ok. Worst case, we signed another Antony, but let's hope that is not the case since he is still new and adjusting

Apart from that silky touch in the 1st game, I have yet to see a decent 1st touch / turn / pass / shot from Zirkzee. I am beginning to believe he is a 10-20m player at best.

 

[Amsterdam Devil]

Didn't watch the 7-0 win and didn't watch this one.
I'll continue not watching matches.

So why react in the post match discussion then?

 

[devilsadvoca8]

We looked solid in the second half for a few reasons, Martinez at LB brought so much stability and cover. He dominated that side which meant Eriksen wasn't drawn out too much from the middle so he and Casemiro could defend the middle better and they did excellently there. Dalot as well wasn't dropping into the middle, he played as an extra winger which meant Brentford always had to have a man wide to contain him.

Rashford then roamed inwards into the 10 role further dragging a Brentford player with him leaving room for Bruno to roam. Garnacho was able to then play off the ball more and this was deadly. All this movement was great for Hojlund who thrived off it and had a great performance himself.

Would love to see Martinez-Yoro-De Light- Dalot/Mazroui back four going forward. This should be the base going forward. Rashford too needs multiple reps playing this way, his playmaking is vastly underrated those passes were Rooney esque.

 

[LDUred]

This was a decent performance and it has steadied the ship a bit, building on the Villa game.

I don't want him to stay long-term but I am still very glad we won. It was great to see some genuine desire and even some quality football at times. But despite the uplifting second half performance, it still didn't look like a top four side or even a top six side. United remain a long way off where they need to be.

What I've always imagined will happen is that the situation will be assessed come the end of the season barring a complete deterioration in form.

What would basically get Erik sacked is relegation form and the players giving up. We saw today that the players are behind the manager at least.

I expect us to finish in the bottom half of the top 10 again and Erik to move on at the end of the season.

 

[quadrant]

I don't think we'd get a boost because of the usual scenario where the players are just sick of the manager like with Jose. But we have a decent squad that Ten Hag is most likely dragging below it's level with his tactics. A new manager with a different approach could be getting more out of this squad.

Yeah agreed, but I think it changes the calculus for when we need to get a replacement. Since the pool of potential managers is always smaller mid-season it’s better to change in the summer. And if a short term bounce seems less likely to make a difference to our prospects mid-season, it makes sticking with ETH more logical, even if the Board have no faith in him coming good.

 

[LordSpud]

So why react in the post match discussion then?

So weird isn't it?

"Ooooh look at me not watching games because of the manager"

Boring as feck

 

[BuzzKillington]

So weird isn't it?

"Ooooh look at me not watching games because of the manager"

Boring as feck

I think he was making the point that when he doesn’t watch, we win. Somebody needs to call round and break his tv, permanently.

 

[tenpoless]

So why react in the post match discussion then?

So weird isn't it?

"Ooooh look at me not watching games because of the manager"

Boring as feck

Calm down. I wrote in the match thread beforehand that I didn't watch due to needing a break (actually I was outside too anyway) but I followed the match day thread.
And since we won, which I was happy about, I need to keep skipping matches from now on. Because it brought me happiness (and points).

 

[stevoc]

Yeah agreed, but I think it changes the calculus for when we need to get a replacement. Since the pool of potential managers is always smaller mid-season it’s better to change in the summer. And if a short term bounce seems less likely to make a difference to our prospects mid-season, it makes sticking with ETH more logical, even if the Board have no faith in him coming good.

We're 3 months too late on that one.

We don't need to be hiring a top class "long term" manager mid-season. A lot of managers could still come in and see an uptick in results with a change of tactics.

That could even happen under Ten Hag if he changes tactics like he did towards the end of last season.

 

[troylocker]

Good 2nd half. Created tons of chances and scored great goals.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

We're 3 months too late on that one.

We don't need to be hiring a top class "long term" manager mid-season. A lot of managers could still come in and see an uptick in results with a change of tactics.

That could even happen under Ten Hag if he changes tactics like he did towards the end of last season.

The presumption is always “things could be better with a different manager”, well the last time we replaced a manager during the season it didn’t get better. Finished with our worst points total in EPL that season and Ragnick said needed open heart surgery and were 6 years away from catching Liverpool.

Mind you, Not a sole reason to not replace the manager but a lot of people make this weird presumption that change equals better by default.

 

[doomy20]

Calm down. I wrote in the match thread beforehand that I didn't watch due to needing a break (actually I was outside too anyway) but I followed the match day thread.
And since we won, which I was happy about, I need to keep skipping matches from now on. Because it brought me happiness (and points).

Don’t feel bad, I am with you, not watching as well since a couple of weeks. Still read the threads though.

 

[stevoc]

The presumption is always “things could be better with a different manager”, well the last time we replaced a manager during the season it didn’t get better. Finished with our worst points total in EPL that season and Ragnick said needed open heart surgery and were 6 years away from catching Liverpool.

But on the same token just because it didn't work that one time doesn't mean we can presume it couldn't work another time.

Mind you, Not a sole reason to not replace the manager but a lot of people make this weird presumption that change equals better by default.

It doesn't necessarily make things better but when things aren't going well for a long time doing nothing and just carrying on as is, is probably even less likely to yield a better result.

Whether it's with Ten Hag or another manager the thing that would quite likely see us having an uptick in results is a change in tactics more than anything.

Ragnick said needed open heart surgery

Turns out that perhaps wasn't the answer either. Or at least we need to find different doctor.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

But on the same token just because it didn't work that one time doesn't mean we can presume it couldn't work another time.



It doesn't necessarily make things better but when things aren't going well for a long time doing nothing and just carrying on as is, is probably even less likely to yield a better result.

Whether it's with Ten Hag or another manager the thing that would quite likely see us having an uptick in results is a change in tactics more than anything.



Turns out that perhaps wasn't the answer either. Or at least we need to find different doctor.

I don’t completely disagree with you but I think the problem for United has been beyond managers hired.

I don’t think hiring and firing more managers over the last 11 years would have yielded any better than we’ve gotten. We’d still be over paying for players, still extending contracts of players not good enough and we’d still need squad rebuilds. United never restructured after SAF and was geared towards a long term manager.

I think this is where fans have had differing views to a degree. United needed to restructure itself to be like a modern club that can relatively seemlessly change managers. United has not once done this.

While I’d be surprised if INEOs have written off season regardless of how it’s going, I always thought id take a couple of seasons of crap for us to get things right in the backround. It’s not easy watching us struggle so much, don’t get me wrong , I wonder like most if ETH is not up to the job.

But , as surprised I was that he lasted the international break , a part of me is wondering if (rightly or wrongly) INEOs feel having ETH here for season is better for their long term plans that don’t require CL qualification this season. Maybe he’s considered a better stabiliser at this time while they implement new ways of doing things.

Before anybody has a go at me, I’m not saying this is the right way to do things. I’m not saying ETH “should get a pass regardless of how things are going”, I’m only trying to look at the possible INEOs logic outside of “they are clueless”.

 

[Matt851]

Ten hag really is good at doing just about enough not to get sacked

 

[stevoc]

I don’t completely disagree with you but I think the problem for United has been beyond managers hired.

I don’t think hiring and firing more managers over the last 11 years would have yielded any better than we’ve gotten. We’d still be over paying for players, still extending contracts of players not good enough and we’d still need squad rebuilds. United never restructured after SAF and was geared towards a long term manager.

I think this is where fans have had differing views to a degree. United needed to restructure itself to be like a modern club that can relatively seemlessly change managers. United has not once done this.

While I’d be surprised if INEOs have written off season regardless of how it’s going, I always thought id take a couple of seasons of crap for us to get things right in the backround. It’s not easy watching us struggle so much, don’t get me wrong , I wonder like most if ETH is not up to the job.

But , as surprised I was that he lasted the international break , a part of me is wondering if (rightly or wrongly) INEOs feel having ETH here for season is better for their long term plans that don’t require CL qualification this season. Maybe he’s considered a better stabiliser at this time while they implement new ways of doing things.

Before anybody has a go at me, I’m not saying this is the right way to do things. I’m not saying ETH “should get a pass regardless of how things are going”, I’m only trying to look at the possible INEOs logic outside of “they are clueless”.

I'd largely agree with your bolded part there. The major reason we've struggled has been the Glazers, Woodward and hiring average or past it managers has been part of that.

I always thought id take a couple of seasons of crap for us to get things right in the backround.

Are those things mutually exclusive though?

Do we need to struggle on the pitch and/or just disregard results to get the right infrastructure and structure in place behind the scenes?

It's not as if one day the club will decide everything behind the scenes is now hunky dory and they can then concentrate on the first team. There's no reason they can't work on both in parallel. I given Ratcliffe's comments on how vital CL qualification is I'm going to assume top 4 is vital to their plans. And why wouldn't it be, a 2nd season in a row outside the CL could financially disastrous for the club going forward.

 

[SuperiorXI]

Thomas Frank? More like Thomas Wank

 

[Amsterdam Devil]

Calm down. I wrote in the match thread beforehand that I didn't watch due to needing a break (actually I was outside too anyway) but I followed the match day thread.
And since we won, which I was happy about, I need to keep skipping matches from now on. Because it brought me happiness (and points).

It was not to attack you. I just think it’s weird that you don’t watch the game but do react in the post match discussion.

 

[matt10000]

Didn't watch the 7-0 win and didn't watch this one.
I'll continue not watching matches.

Who do you support now then?

 

[Crostien]

So happy to get the result yesterday.

We played well, dominated and scored two good goals in the Saturday sun(ish). Did not panic when trailing.

Ugarte and Zirkzee were the day's only particular blight, but, give them time.

Up to twelth.

Heady days!

 

[MancunianAngels]

No that doesn't cut the mustard. We lose next weekend, draw the week after and win. Is that what we accept to happen. Winning isn't enough anymore. There needs more to be shown. His time is done and just winning against a mid table side is not enough

Nonsense. If we lose next week, that's the negative for next week.

We won. We played OK. Our attacking players seem to have clicked. Onwards to Thursday.

 

[Wrecking ralf]

Noticed on the replay, Rashford tucking in at right back while Dalot bombed forward. Seen Dalot make that run unnoticed a few times with Onana trying to pick him out with a long ball. Just having that right side protected when the wing back moved up is one improvement ETH had made, but getting Rashford to slot in there shows how Rash is geared up this year. Working hard for the team, not just himself.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

I'd largely agree with your bolded part there. The major reason we've struggled has been the Glazers, Woodward and hiring average or past it managers has been part of that.



Are those things mutually exclusive though?

Do we need to struggle on the pitch and/or just disregard results to get the right infrastructure and structure in place behind the scenes?

It's not as if one day the club will decide everything behind the scenes is now hunky dory and they can then concentrate on the first team. There's no reason they can't work on both in parallel. I given Ratcliffe's comments on how vital CL qualification is I'm going to assume top 4 is vital to their plans. And why wouldn't it be, a 2nd season in a row outside the CL could financially disastrous for the club going forward.

You are correct, they are not mutually exclusive , we don’t “have to be poor for a few years” before we see progress. Im not saying “keep ETH cause we need time to rebuild culture, I’m saying that perhaps keeping him is a choice they’ve made because of the stage yue clubs restructure is at”.

I think it’s fair to say that during the process (that’s really only started), it’s less relevant to compare United to other clubs that would sack a manager or buy better players because United is not at the stage to be benchmarked on that level.

Generally every club we can be compared to , has a decent track record running things well proportional to the clubs size. We could argue United are the worst run super club in terms of creating successful squads or winning environment. The reason Madrid and Bayern fans can demand high standards is because there is seldom a season they aren’t challanging for something.

The reason City have been there or thereabouts isn’t because of Pep, they were there under pelligrini and Mancini. It’s because the club is setup to succeed and give its managers every opportunity to meet those goals.

Maybe sacking ETH would improve things or maybe things could get worse. If things got worse this would bring far more pressure on INEOs then keeping him. Maybe keeping ETH around just suits the project right now.

Or maybe INEOs are clueless and we are f**ked! I’d rather be optimistic and think while mistakes will be made and we might feel like we are going backwards , in the longer term, the compounded structural improvements will be all worth it.

As sh*t it can feel at times , I feel we have more of a chance of SJR making us into a better team longer term as at least he’s primarily focused on the team/squad/culture. That’s what I feel has been desperately lacking at United and for me is one of the reasons we’ve fall so far.

Glazers threw our clubs money at the squad to compensate for their failing to upgrade the club structure. They were getting dividends and club value was going up so it didn’t really affect them when the team was failing. SJR is focused on organised excellence, not profits, that in itself is a step up. He may not be able to make it work but his focus and motive is what any fan should want from owners.

 

[sunama]

Ten hag really is good at doing just about enough not to get sacked

That's it.
In 3 matches we did not score a goal in the EPL and now that we scored 2 goals, everything is okay?
I'm, happy we won because we absolutely have to be in Europe next year (regardless of who the manager is), but ETH has a way of wriggling out of the sack.
We are in the bottom half of the table after 8 matches and he should absolutely be replaced.
The lack of ambition shown by INEOS and also our fanbase is mind-boggling.

 

[Malons]

Second half the performance was good. Some decent individual showings, Rashford certainly was one. I think the first half was a bit concerning though. For long periods they were controlling the game like how we'd be expected to control matches at Old Trafford against teams like Brentford not a million years ago.

 

[arthurka]

A win, good 20 min in second half. ETH still kills the enjoyment of football and his in-game management is just strange to say the least.

 

[antohan]

There is positives and negatives to pick from this game.

Positive: we won

Negative: Baldy will secure his job for another 5 games.

Rinse and repeat every weekend please

 

[Rapsel]

I would not sack ETH if United plays every match like yesterday's second half so the question should be why does this team not only not perform like they the did yesterday but why does it often not even remotely resemble yesterday's second half performance?

 

[Woziak]

I would not sack ETH if United plays every match like yesterday's second half so the question should be why does this team not only not perform like they the did yesterday but why does it often not even remotely resemble yesterday's second half performance?

Most United fans want Eric sacked, my personal opinion is he should have been sacked the moment we lost to Spurs, he’s still here. It’s simple for ETH he should have had 15/16 points from 8 PL games and 4 points from 2 EL games. Yet again he recruited 5 or 6 players and none have EPL experience.

He needs to win his next game, yes it’s tough against West Ham away and win in Turkey in the EL, can’t see that happening and this is his issue. If he has 13-14 points after 11 EPL games he’ll be sacked, whatever delusional world he’s dreaming in!

If he has 3 to 5 points from first 4 Europa Games he’ll be sacked as the international break in Early November gives the hierarchy the perfect chance to change things and a fair to middling set of fixtures from November 24th for a new Coach. This means I genuinely think he needs 7-9 points in EPL from West Ham(A), Chelsea(H), Leicester (H) and 4-6 points from Fernabache(A) and PAOK(H) , the carabo cup 4th round to Leicester, win or lose won’t influence his future.

If by some miracle he wins the next three EPL games, something which I find almost impossible given the way the team is currently playing and gets 2 wins in EL then he would have 20 EPL from 11 Matches and 8 points from 4 in EL, he would most likely remove most of the current pressure surrounding his tenure as head coach and be given to the end of the season?

 

[ThinkTank@Cafe]

Great post, thanks for the tactics updates that is beyond my pay grade.

Great post especially on Rashford. He is one of my favorite players. Hope he can transform his play from now on. He seems to be starting to click with Garnacho as well.

Thank you for appreciating. Overall, I have a creeping sensation that something is happening tactically to the team. Our poor form last season is not only a result of injuries and players contribution. Ten Hag is risking his career to make a 180 degree turn in our vision of play. I am still in Ten Hag out camp (there are reasons for this, beyond league positions) but he can prove us wrong. Statistically, this year we are much better in many key aspects as well.

2nd half yesterday: that was prime Ten Hag’s Ajax live

 

[quadrant]

We're 3 months too late on that one.

We don't need to be hiring a top class "long term" manager mid-season. A lot of managers could still come in and see an uptick in results with a change of tactics.

That could even happen under Ten Hag if he changes tactics like he did towards the end of last season.

You say there's a lot of managers out there, but I simply don't see them. We need someone who is available now, has the style of football we want, has the coaching ability to make it work, has the authority to deal with the players even though they know he'll be gone in 7 months, and is happy to join on a short term basis. The list of people who fit those criteria feels pretty short.

As we saw with Ragnick, simply having someone who has the tactics you want doesn't mean you'll start to see results on the pitch. There are other fundamentals required, even for an interim manager.

 

[Maticmaker]

It took a freak occurrence for them to score and for us to receive the necessary kick up the backside that got some determination into our play.
We were very pedestrian in the first half, but in the second half with our pride wounded by the nature of their goal, everyone seemed to 'pull up their socks' and get cracking.
Rashford got involved, he at last put in a shift and provided a fantastic assist for the first of our goals. Dalot, Rasmus, de Ligt, and Martinez (in left back role) should all get a 'mention in dispatches'.
Garnacho seemed back to something like his true form, still makes some bad decisions though (sometimes in critical moments) and even the old timers Casemiro, Eriksen and Evans, got their brains to make up for their legs and more than held their own, until late on.
We all know 'one swallow doesn't make a summer,' but there was enough in the game, and the result, and how it was obtained, to send us all home happy last night.

 

[croadyman]

Now that the game has been over for a little while I feel like the best way to sum this up would be:

A perfectly fine performance. There was mostly good. A little bit of bad. If that was part of a season where you finish top 4 it wouldn’t be memorable.

In amongst our current run of form it’s not going to change many opinions. Our next 6 matches until Arsenal in December are all winnable. If we produce this level each week we should win most if not all of them.

At which point you imagine the confidence would be creating a positive feedback loop leading to better and better performances as that hypothetical run goes on. We saw a little bit of that once Garnacho scored and suddenly tried to set up Hojlund after just shooting in the first half.

Chelsea won't be easy because they looked to have really clicked in the last few games

 

[Cantonalegod]

15:00 kick off in the UK so didn’t see it. Must be a sign to stop watching all together…

Or find a way...

 

[Borninthe80ts]

Johnny Evans is basically what the club thought they were getting when they signed Laurent Blanc at the end of his career. Unbelievable signing to be frank.

I like this parallel. I thought Blanc would have used his experience and quality the way that Johnny does despite his age. Real leader.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

If you look closely Jonny Evans just gets a slight touch on the ball, and the attacker had no time to react, so actually a good piece of defending, though definitely last ditch!

Awesome, missed that. Love having Jonny with us.

 

[Giggsy13]

That's it.
In 3 matches we did not score a goal in the EPL and now that we scored 2 goals, everything is okay?
I'm, happy we won because we absolutely have to be in Europe next year (regardless of who the manager is), but ETH has a way of wriggling out of the sack.
We are in the bottom half of the table after 8 matches and he should absolutely be replaced.
The lack of ambition shown by INEOS and also our fanbase is mind-boggling.

No one is saying everything is ok. If we take the ten Hag thread as a barometer, the majority of supporters want him out. But the reality is that INEOS are not taking that approach and will likely give ten Hag the entire season unless the results get worse. In the interim there is nothing wrong with enjoying a win if of course you actually enjoy these things following United.