[sparx99]

Chelsea won't be easy because they looked to have really clicked in the last few games

Missed that one in the fixture list.

 

[Insanity]

Any good assessment/review of the performance yesterday? Did it look like something sustainable we can build on?

 

[stevoc]

You are correct, they are not mutually exclusive , we don’t “have to be poor for a few years” before we see progress. Im not saying “keep ETH cause we need time to rebuild culture, I’m saying that perhaps keeping him is a choice they’ve made because of the stage yue clubs restructure is at”.

I think it’s fair to say that during the process (that’s really only started), it’s less relevant to compare United to other clubs that would sack a manager or buy better players because United is not at the stage to be benchmarked on that level.

Generally every club we can be compared to , has a decent track record running things well proportional to the clubs size. We could argue United are the worst run super club in terms of creating successful squads or winning environment. The reason Madrid and Bayern fans can demand high standards is because there is seldom a season they aren’t challanging for something.

The reason City have been there or thereabouts isn’t because of Pep, they were there under pelligrini and Mancini. It’s because the club is setup to succeed and give its managers every opportunity to meet those goals.

Maybe sacking ETH would improve things or maybe things could get worse. If things got worse this would bring far more pressure on INEOs then keeping him. Maybe keeping ETH around just suits the project right now.

Or maybe INEOs are clueless and we are f**ked! I’d rather be optimistic and think while mistakes will be made and we might feel like we are going backwards , in the longer term, the compounded structural improvements will be all worth it.

As sh*t it can feel at times , I feel we have more of a chance of SJR making us into a better team longer term as at least he’s primarily focused on the team/squad/culture. That’s what I feel has been desperately lacking at United and for me is one of the reasons we’ve fall so far.

Glazers threw our clubs money at the squad to compensate for their failing to upgrade the club structure. They were getting dividends and club value was going up so it didn’t really affect them when the team was failing. SJR is focused on organised excellence, not profits, that in itself is a step up. He may not be able to make it work but his focus and motive is what any fan should want from owners.

I have no doubt that long term Ratliffe will be a better owner for United than the Glazers, but that's a pretty low bar. They aren't winning many hearts and minds with the decisions they've made in their first 10 months. Short term though and by that I mean the next 2-3 years I have very little optimism in what they're doing because I suspect they having to figure it out as they go, I don't think they have a grand plan for the first team. But my point remians the club infrastrucutre can be improved behind the scenes while the first team is also managed. Those works don't require us sticking with a failing manager for them to continue. After 20 years of the Glazers I'm fully prepared for the possibility that Ineos might well be clueless and there's no clever thinking behind keeping Ten Hag beyond some silly reason that someone within the club has cooked up.

In general what we've endured over the course of last season gave me little optimism for this one, nothing I've seen this season has changed that. While I hope it's not the case I suspect we'll continue to stumble for another few months before someone at boardroom level gets their finger out and realizes a change needs to be made.

 

[stevoc]

You say there's a lot of managers out there, but I simply don't see them. We need someone who is available now, has the style of football we want, has the coaching ability to make it work, has the authority to deal with the players even though they know he'll be gone in 7 months, and is happy to join on a short term basis. The list of people who fit those criteria feels pretty short.

When you pay your manager one of the top 5 salaries in World Football then there's a lot of managers out there available at any time.

As we saw with Ragnick, simply having someone who has the tactics you want doesn't mean you'll start to see results on the pitch. There are other fundamentals required, even for an interim manager.

It doesn't mean you won't either. The current level of this team, in terms of coaching, defensive structure, attacking etc is very low. Why that's the case who knows, but we've seen it hundreds of times in football where a new coach can come in mid-season and improve a clubs fortunes. Sometimes it doesn't work but that's the case with every appointment, there's no guarantees in football. Of all the reasons to not hire a new manager, the fear they might not work is possibly the most useless one. As every new manager might not work.

 

[Borninthe80ts]

I now it sounds obvious but the main thing was the hard work of all the players at the same time that I liked. When Bruno presses on his own it leaves gaps, but when we pressed as a unit we broke up counter attacks before they started.


People deride the managers tactics and sometimes he gets it wrong, however when a majority of the team play to close to even 75% of their talent and potential we can see performances like this regularly.


We just need a run of a few games and I can see a season like our first under Ten Hag.

 

[croadyman]

Watching back on the match on Premier sports. Pre match predictions. Presenter 2-1 win for Brentford, Damien Delaney 2-2 and Kenny Cunningham went for a 4-2 win for Brentford.

Nothing more glorious than sticking it to ABU's

 

[quadrant]

When you pay your manager one of the top 5 salaries in World Football then there's a lot of managers out there available at any time.

I can't believe anyone still thinks United can chuck money at problems to make them go away. Elite managers are motivated by more than just cash. And the non-elite managers shouldn't be near the club, even on a short term basis.

It doesn't mean you won't either. The current level of this team, in terms of coaching, defensive structure, attacking etc is very low. Why that's the case who knows, but we've seen it hundreds of times in football where a new coach can come in mid-season and improve a clubs fortunes. Sometimes it doesn't work but that's the case with every appointment, there's no guarantees in football. Of all the reasons to not hire a new manager, the fear they might not work is possibly the most useless one. As every new manager might not work.

Basically you're arguing to roll the dice and see what happens, even with a candidate who lacks the fundamentals. I sincerely hope the Board disagree with you.

 

[croadyman]

That's it.
In 3 matches we did not score a goal in the EPL and now that we scored 2 goals, everything is okay?
I'm, happy we won because we absolutely have to be in Europe next year (regardless of who the manager is), but ETH has a way of wriggling out of the sack.
We are in the bottom half of the table after 8 matches and he should absolutely be replaced.
The lack of ambition shown by INEOS and also our fanbase is mind-boggling.

They definitely showed ambition with the Yoro signing, however agree they do lack it on areas such as managers. Our fanbase particularly matchgoers will always support the manager no matter the situation.

 

[SungSam7]

Nonsense. If we lose next week, that's the negative for next week.

We won. We played OK. Our attacking players seem to have clicked. Onwards to Thursday.

Are you somewhat deluded?
Is that the standard the fans accept now? Oh you know, a loss is a loss. Onto next week. Not even the worst club in England would find losses acceptable.

To basically be happy we won, and still unconvincingly by the way. The standard of football is not good, that performance out there would not beat any of the current top 4. As it has been for over 18 months now. Before we know it, we are out of the top 4 race, crashed out in the second tier of European football.

If Real Madrid fans won't accept this type of tripe, why should Man Utd. Feck the fact we won. He's not going to move this club forwards.

 

[always_hoping]

Nothing more glorious than sticking it to ABU's

Kenny Cunningham especially and he doesn't even try to hide it.

 

[stevoc]

I can't believe anyone still thinks United can chuck money at problems to make them go away. Elite managers are motivated by more than just cash. And the non-elite managers shouldn't be near the club, even on a short term basis.

I assume by Elite you mean the top 5-10 coaches in the world. In that case then yes they should if we're looking for an Interim manager, every top club hires stop gap managers when there's a need to. If you're saying non elite managers shouldn't be managing the club then we should sack Ten Hag tomorrow then yes?

As he's clearly proven himself to not be amongst the elite at the top level.

Basically you're arguing to roll the dice and see what happens,

Let's be honest that's all sticking with Ten Hag amounts to only probably with a lower chance of things changing for the better.

even with a candidate who lacks the fundamentals. I sincerely hope the Board disagree with you.

Not sure that's what I actually said but oh well.

 

[quadrant]

I assume by Elite you mean the top 5-10 coaches in the world. In that case then yes they should if we're looking for an Interim manager, every top club hires stop gap managers when there's a need to. If you're saying non elite managers shouldn't be managing the club then we should sack Ten Hag tomorrow then yes?

We should get rid of him, certainly, but doing it immediately with no clue what to do next would be amateurish. This is about doing it in a way that puts the club in the best possible position, balancing the needs of this season with those of next season.

When I say elite manager, I mean someone capable of managing a club our size. So there's maybe 20-ish or so managers knocking around European football running the biggest clubs across the top leagues with another dozen or so on the way up. So its more than just Pep, Klopp and Ancelotti, but its a small group, given the number of clubs seeking them.

If we had such a manager lined up and ready to take over, then yes, we should get him in as soon as we can.

If not, there might be outsider candidates who are not elite managers but can do a better job than he over a short period , but its a gamble. After all, ETH was lauded across Europe for his tactics at Ajax, but he failed too. So the idea there are managers left, right and centre who can take the job over and do better is pretty fanciful.

 

[Betson]

Any good assessment/review of the performance yesterday? Did it look like something sustainable we can build on?

ETH said post match that they came out very high tempo in the 2nd half because they were angry at how the Brentford goal came about at the end of the first half.

Good they did on Saturday but it is reactive football , we are mid table , why can't we come out angry every game until we are the top dogs again.

I don't think the player have the winning mentality attitude to sustain that for any period of time and we will most likely relapse to our slow ponderousness anti football the next time out again.

 

[Amira]

ETH said post match that they came out very high tempo in the 2nd half because they were angry at how the Brentford goal came about at the end of the first half.

Good they did on Saturday but it is reactive football , we are mid table , why can't we come out angry every game until we are the top dogs again.

I don't think the player have the winning mentality attitude to sustain that for any period of time and we will most likely relapse to our slow ponderousness anti football the next time out again.

I agree with the last paragraph. Beyond coaching that I think is lacking and really poor. Our players don’t seem to have pride, mentality and the will to win.

 

[Waynne]

Fantastic, improved performance. Should have been 3-1 if Zirkzee just smashed it first time.

For a few minutes in that 2nd half we looked like United under SAF. That relentless, aggressive push to score. Had goosebumps watching that.

More of that pretty please.

 

[Tincanalley]

So weird isn't it?

"Ooooh look at me not watching games because of the manager"

Boring as feck

Clown can’t tell FM from real world

 

[Berbasbullet]

Fantastic, improved performance. Should have been 3-1 if Zirkzee just smashed it first time.

For a few minutes in that 2nd half we looked like United under SAF. That relentless, aggressive push to score. Had goosebumps watching that.

More of that pretty please.

It really did feel like that didn’t it? There felt like a lot of positivity and aggression, gave the fans lots to get behind.

 

[stevoc]

We should get rid of him, certainly, but doing it immediately with no clue what to do next would be amateurish. This is about doing it in a way that puts the club in the best possible position, balancing the needs of this season with those of next season.

When I say elite manager, I mean someone capable of managing a club our size. So there's maybe 20-ish or so managers knocking around European football running the biggest clubs across the top leagues with another dozen or so on the way up. So its more than just Pep, Klopp and Ancelotti, but its a small group, given the number of clubs seeking them.

If we had such a manager lined up and ready to take over, then yes, we should get him in as soon as we can.

If not, there might be outsider candidates who are not elite managers but can do a better job than he over a short period , but its a gamble. After all, ETH was lauded across Europe for his tactics at Ajax, but he failed too. So the idea there are managers left, right and centre who can take the job over and do better is pretty fanciful.

Every new appointment is a gamble there are no guarantees.

To put the club in the best possible position for next season, in terms of the clubs finances and attracting a top manager and players next summer. We need to be in the CL.

I don't see that happening with ETH. Do you?

You can't take your eyes off the short term to plan for the long term. Ineos haven't acted yet I hope they have a good reason for that.

 

[croadyman]

I agree with the last paragraph. Beyond coaching that I think is lacking and really poor. Our players don’t seem to have pride, mentality and the will to win.

Yeah we definitely lack that mentality and will to win across a number of games which is gonna be needed to built any kind of momentum

 

[Roboc7]

The second half performance stands out so much because of how bad we have been for such a sustained period of time that even just a good half seems so different. We should be able to replicate that level of performance regularly and it should be routine and nothing special.

It was a good win in the end but I fully expect us to go to West Ham and drop points with a whimper and struggle against Fenerbahce. I hope I am wrong and it is a sign of improvement but I’d say it was more likely a response to the circumstances of their goal (similar to the penalty save against Southampton) and normal service will resume.

 

[redmanx]

Any good assessment/review of the performance yesterday? Did it look like something sustainable we can build on?

A club with a half decent infrastructure, half decent management and half decent players would, Our infrastructure is a mess, management s a disaster, and though we have a few half decent players they are not consistent. No, I dont think we can build on this.

 

[Still ill]

A club with a half decent infrastructure, half decent management and half decent players would, Our infrastructure is a mess, management s a disaster, and though we have a few half decent players they are not consistent. No, I dont think we can build on this.

Eh? Why can't we build on this? Onana has been consistent all season, De Ligt was fantastic beside Jonny yesterday, Licha solid at left back, good structure in the centre of the park in the second half with De Ligt snapping into everything that got beyond Casemiro and Erikson, clear intent and consistent threat from both Garnacho and Rashford, a proper centre forward display from Rasmus....
By all means talk about our inconsistency but don't give me there's nothing to build on.

 

[Waynne]

It really did feel like that didn’t it? There felt like a lot of positivity and aggression, gave the fans lots to get behind.

Exactly. I felt we were going to score and it was just a matter of time. Haven't had that feeling in a long time.

We just need the team to show this hunger more often. Good win. Pleased for the players and coaching team.

 

[croadyman]

Eh? Why can't we build on this? Onana has been consistent all season, De Ligt was fantastic beside Jonny yesterday, Licha solid at left back, good structure in the centre of the park in the second half with De Ligt snapping into everything that got beyond Casemiro and Erikson, clear intent and consistent threat from both Garnacho and Rashford, a proper centre forward display from Rasmus....
By all means talk about our inconsistency but don't give me there's nothing to build on.

Probably feels that way because it took us feeling injustice from that Brentford goal to fire us up for the second half. We need to be showing that level of fight without needing motivation from the first whistle.

 

[Stig]

I noticed that we played more responsibly. There was no spate of absolutely stupid, unnecessary fouls for yellow cards. Nobody was flying out of position and leaving us exposed.

We looked much more cohesive as a team, and I think that maybe a lot of our stupid yellow cards and unnecessary fouls have come from us being disorganized and not having a plan and therefore leaving the players frustrated who then just lash out a give away daft freekicks.

Today it was all so much calmer, and organized. And once we got a spell of playing well with players sticking to their jobs, it all seemed to gel so much better than it has been doing.

 

[Stig]

I mean yeah great but I am fecked off with these nobody's telling everyone where we’ve got it right or wrong and then nobody’s posting shit on here like we should all take note.

Who gives a feck what this fella is saying and why he is saying it?

I've read this multiple times, and can't figure out what you mean. Can you please say it again, some other way ?

 

[MinGin]

We can play a decent football when all our players are not selfish and worked hard..

 

[matherto]

Any good assessment/review of the performance yesterday? Did it look like something sustainable we can build on?

No purely because we never do build upon a decent period in a game and we still let ourselves down at the end of the match and didn't close it out so nearly dropped points from a winning position again.

 

[Glorio]

Didn't watch the 7-0 win and didn't watch this one.
I'll continue not watching matches.

So why react in the post match discussion then?

So weird isn't it?

"Ooooh look at me not watching games because of the manager"

Boring as feck

Clown can’t tell FM from real world

I read the initial post from @tenpoless as basically saying we happened to win the two games he didn't watch, so he'll keep not watching so we keep winning.

I'm not sure it's the petulant whinge you folks assume it is.

 

[fergiewherearethou]

Any good assessment/review of the performance yesterday? Did it look like something sustainable we can build on?

The simple fact that our best midfield duo is still Casemiro-Eriksen the same which was 2 seasons ago speaks volumes about our manager's planning and long term sustainability.
We had 30 good minutes in the second half and that was it.

 

[tenpoless]

I read the initial post from @tenpoless as basically saying we happened to win the two games he didn't watch, so he'll keep not watching so we keep winning.

I'm not sure it's the petulant whinge you folks assume it is.

Thanks for clarifying. It seems like emotions are running high for some posters these days—definitely feels like a roller coaster. I watched the highlights yesterday. The last goal is so good. I hope Bruno and Hojlund can form a decent partnership, we really needed that.

 

[Rooney25]

I like how Bruno has got his focus back in recent weeks, when he plays with an aggressive edge he is a top talent that would get into most teams.

We need to see that level of consistency from him, when he’s on top of his game he can be a catalyst for the team.

Bruno can be a game changer, just need to see it more often.

 

[nickm]

We can play a decent football when all our players are not selfish and worked hard..

And when we have a proper centre forward knitting it all together from the front. I don't think we should under-estimate the difference Hojlund made.

 

[Slevs]

I missed the game how did we play

 

[Yakuza_devils]

That 2nd half is something we need to maintain week in week out. Hopefully, it's the moment that this team finally clicked. It was entertaining to watch. The players were giving their all. ETH said the players were angry after the goal at end of 1st half. Can we make them angry everyweek before the game start?

 

[Tincanalley]

Thanks for clarifying. It seems like emotions are running high for some posters these days—definitely feels like a roller coaster. I watched the highlights yesterday. The last goal is so good. I hope Bruno and Hojlund can form a decent partnership, we really needed that.

Fair enough

 

[sunama]

Any good assessment/review of the performance yesterday? Did it look like something sustainable we can build on?

It was a good performance - probably the best of the season.
It can be built on, however, we have seen so many false dawns with this manager and previous managers, that you have to be a buffoon to think that we will build on what we saw.
We'll most likely return to playing our usual (mid-table) way in our next game.

 

[Marcus]

It was a great recovery. I will take it as it is. A good half of football which the manager and the team should get credit for.

 

[Giggsy13]

I looked at some statistics for our season so far after the Brentford match, (and I would not find a better tread than this one):

- United has hit the woodwork 6 times this season, most of all teams. Bruno and Garnacho have both done it two times.
- United has made the most tackles of all teams, 180.
- Onana is the keeper with most clean sheets.

The underlying stats and metrics place us in a better position than we are currently. Hopefully the attackers gained some confidence in that 2nd half against Brentford to kick on and get us more points against west ham, Chelsea and Leicester.

 

[Resch]

ETH has a problem, he never found a winning formula and has a team with many holes. Instead of focussing at the basics, he tried to force a team into this idea and failed. The team could not and can not deliver, because it plays with a semi-fixed broken system.