[Lentwood]

We seemed to be making a concerted effort to play the ball directly into Hojlund and this is something I have advocated for in football for a long time.

For me, passing the ball out wide is a bit of a cop-out. The opposition leave space here because it's hard to hurt them. It feels like you're making progress, but usually you're running into a dead-end.

We need to be braver and be comfortable going into the feet of Hojlund / Zirkee and playing off them.

One of the hardest things to defend against in football, and something that happens nowhere near enough at any level, is the "wall-pass" into the CF, pop it straight off to one of the CMs who picks a first-time ball into the deep runners from wide / midfield.

 

[Maticmaker]

I can't believe anyone still thinks United can chuck money at problems to make them go away.

You can throw money at a problem and be successful, but not the way we have been doing it.

Sir Jim seems (at last) to be trying to sort out the 'bloated' state of the club, in almost every area, this isn't just about stopping wasting money, its about getting more 'bang for the buck'.

It's going to be painful for a while.... but then it has to be. It has been going on too long, papering over the cracks, sometimes not even recognising where the cracks are... in some case knowing exactly where the are and just looking the other way.

 

[Catt]

ETH has a problem, he never found a winning formula and has a team with many holes. Instead of focussing at the basics, he tried to force a team into this idea and failed. The team could not and can not deliver, because it plays with a semi-fixed broken system.

Drugs

 

[Nobby style]

Dalot on the right is a must. From worst United player when playing LB to being one of our greatest assets back on the right. Should keep his place there. Love the comeback win.

That said, his defending was shocking on Pillock's goal. I love Dalot but those defensive brainfarts are a bit too often for me.

 

[Coops73]

I've read this multiple times, and can't figure out what you mean. Can you please say it again, some other way ?

Ok yeah, I’m sober now.

Basically all these tactical analysis videos, they’re fecking everywhere telling us plebs how football works these days, football used to be such a simple game for thick working class wankers like myself but it’s got a whole lot more complicated.

I’m just an old dinosaur, you lot carry on, I’ll be more careful not to click on these bloody videos.

 

[Nobby style]

Another mediocre performance but at least we managed to win. But I'm not entirely happy as this win just bought some time for our totally clueless manager.

Totally agree with you. Thought this was a typical Ten Hag managed match. Comically bad luck with De Ligt's bloody gulliver and the ensuing goal. The thirty minute spell of shit football at the beginning. Then showing a spell of great footie, plagued as always by crap finishing and poor decisions in the final third, leaving us to win the match once again through individual brilliance with that Bruno tap. And surprisingly, no one has seemed to mention, Brentford were on the verge of tying it at the end, having two great chances in the dying moments as we typically faltered and had to hold on for dear life. Not sure about Nistleroy's input, or if it's just a matter of time, but it was again some of the worst finishing and decision making in our attack per usual.

This was all such a typical Ten Hag United match and happy as I am for the result, gives me zero optimism. Did enjoy Rashford's effort and seeing Rasmus starting to take off again. Onana had some great passes from the back. Casemiro looked much better as well. De Lift had a great second half after a shaky first one. I mean, that headbutt to the Brentford player's knee looked like some proper pub league hijinks. Wtf??

 

[nickm]

Another mediocre performance but at least we managed to win. But I'm not entirely happy as this win just bought some time for our totally clueless manager.

Goodness imagine not being happy about winning because you hate the manager.

I'm always happy when United wins.

 

[Sea-Cow]

ETH said post match that they came out very high tempo in the 2nd half because they were angry at how the Brentford goal came about at the end of the first half.

Good they did on Saturday but it is reactive football , we are mid table , why can't we come out angry every game until we are the top dogs again.

I don't think the player have the winning mentality attitude to sustain that for any period of time and we will most likely relapse to our slow ponderousness anti football the next time out again.

Agreed. For too long now it looks like we aren't arsed until we go behind. Glad that we got a reaction on Saturday but its frustrating that the difference in the halves was so stark.

But hopefully De Ligt stays pissed off because that was awesome! It would be amazing if he can kick on and realize the potential he showed at 17 and 18.

 

[Sea-Cow]

That said, his defending was shocking on Pillock's goal. I love Dalot but those defensive brainfarts are a bit too often for me.

The fact that it all started with his horrendous throw in, and culminated in him being a lazy bastard on marking his man on the corner made me furious. If I was the manager I would have happily subbed him at halftime.

 

[JE-365]

I thought It was a good performance, a good win for us, and we fully deserved for 3 point. I like the structure when we were on the ball, it made us effective in our build up play from the back.

De Ligt - Onana - Evans - Martinez
Casemiro - Eriksen
Dalot - Rashford - Bruno - Garnacho
Hojlund

 

[RedFanaticTattooist]

Goodness imagine not being happy about winning because you hate the manager.

I'm always happy when United wins.

I'm happy that you see things from such a simplystic perspective. The majority of fans already realized that as long as ten Hag is our couch, the failure is guaranteed. The longer he stays with us, the smaller the chance of achieving anything this season. And this is not just about feelings. It's about finance. Maybe you haven't heard but the club is in really serious financial trouble, record loss and so on, and a good run in an international competition could help a lot. I don't say that the current squad is strong enough to compete for a top 4 finish but at least for the 6th-7th place yes. But with ten Hag even this seems to be absolutely impossible. That's why I'm not entirely happy, because I think long term, if you know what i mean.

 

[justsomebloke]

Any good assessment/review of the performance yesterday? Did it look like something sustainable we can build on?

That's a good question.

They started out very careful (very possibly motivated by Brentford's very marked tendency to score early goals?). Creating very little, and also worryingly passive around our own box, which allowed them to set up some decent chances early on. Definitely not a sustainable state.

But in the second half, or really from about the 25 minute mark, we largely controlled the game. They dropped deep, didn't create much. We didn't really either, but there was at least a sense of steady pressure. We seemed to press mostly in a 442 pattern rather than the usual loco 6-4, and managed to stay fairly safe and compact without the ball. This allowed Eriksen and Casemiro to be pretty effective, as they still can be when they're not asked to do things they can't.

One thing I noted with great interest, and not for the first time, is that Rashford's game seems to have changed. He has been a player who typically was focused on things like take-ons and shots. Now he looks a lot more like a playmaker, and the stats bear that out too - he has a lot more touches and passes. In this game, he led the team in touches in the attacking third, second in touches inside the box, most carries among non-defenders, most key passes, most passes into the PA, most crosses into the PA, most progressive passes, most shot-creating actions. This is very different from his usual stats profile, it's more like what you'd expect from Bruno.

So, we generated quite a lot of sustained pressure for long periods, had a lot of shots and scored two goals. Not much of an xG though - less, actually, than in any other PL game so far except Spurs and Villa.

 

[Berbasbullet]

I'm happy that you see things from such a simplystic perspective. The majority of fans already realized that as long as ten Hag is our couch, the failure is guaranteed. The longer he stays with us, the smaller the chance of achieving anything this season. And this is not just about feelings. It's about finance. Maybe you haven't heard but the club is in really serious financial trouble, record loss and so on, and a good run in an international competition could help a lot. I don't say that the current squad is strong enough to compete for a top 4 finish but at least for the 6th-7th place yes. But with ten Hag even this seems to be absolutely impossible. That's why I'm not entirely happy, because I think long term, if you know what i mean.

God you’re smart!

 

[SonOfFergie]

That said, his defending was shocking on Pillock's goal. I love Dalot but those defensive brainfarts are a bit too often for me.

This. You have a dead ball situation. You know there will be danger. FFS focus on the players you should be marking and align in advance in what system a marking will be done. Who is marking 1:1 who is zonal marking etc. Here Dalot was assigned to 1:1 marking and Casemiro to zonal.

You can see here the situation from 0:47 onwards: youtube.com/watch?v=SCBuq466xYw

Dalot is on a wrong side of player he is marking - be between corner side that is taken and a player
Because of that he cannot recover to defend when a player attacks near post
Let alone he delivers absolutely no effort to challenge player even after he escapes him
Lazy individual defending. Guardiola/SAF would tear his player a new asshole for such lazy effort.
And lets not forget about Casemiro who was in exactly the right spot zonal marking especially runs to near post and should absolutely clear this ball.

Two individual errors costing us a cheap goal. Dock weekly salary to both.

 

[nickm]

I'm happy that you see things from such a simplystic perspective. The majority of fans already realized that as long as ten Hag is our couch, the failure is guaranteed. The longer he stays with us, the smaller the chance of achieving anything this season. And this is not just about feelings. It's about finance. Maybe you haven't heard but the club is in really serious financial trouble, record loss and so on, and a good run in an international competition could help a lot. I don't say that the current squad is strong enough to compete for a top 4 finish but at least for the 6th-7th place yes. But with ten Hag even this seems to be absolutely impossible. That's why I'm not entirely happy, because I think long term, if you know what i mean.

It's not simplistic. When United win, I feel happy. That's the point. I'm not sitting there regretting a victory because it means the manager I hate gets to stay in the role a bit longer. How weird would that be?

A lot of people have convinced themselves that because Ten Hag MUST apparently go, but hasn't yet, the people who employ him are therefore incompetent, any wins are pointless, the club's troubles are irretrievable etc etc.

I think ETH probably needs to go as well, but we could all be wrong and the experts who are now running United and being patient with him, may well be right. He may well turn it around, I'm not discounting the possibility. At the end of the day, fans know fcuk all and we might as well enjoy the ride as best we can, and take heart when things on the pitch show improvement.

 

[justsomebloke]

This. You have a dead ball situation. You know there will be danger. FFS focus on the players you should be marking and align in advance in what system a marking will be done. Who is marking 1:1 who is zonal marking etc. Here Dalot was assigned to 1:1 marking and Casemiro to zonal.

You can see here the situation from 0:47 onwards: youtube.com/watch?v=SCBuq466xYw

Dalot is on a wrong side of player he is marking - be between corner side that is taken and a player
Because of that he cannot recover to defend when a player attacks near post
Let alone he delivers absolutely no effort to challenge player even after he escapes him
Lazy individual defending. Guardiola/SAF would tear his player a new asshole for such lazy effort.
And lets not forget about Casemiro who was in exactly the right spot zonal marking especially runs to near post and should absolutely clear this ball.

Two individual errors costing us a cheap goal. Dock weekly salary to both.

Two things with this though. 1, zonally, wasn't this where De Ligt would have been? At least, it looks like that was where he was on previous corners. 2, surely Dalot gets taken out by a Brentford blocking move (Ajer, as I recall?)

 

[Duffer1953]

Had it been Onana with the head bleed would the ref have told him to go off and allow the corner to be taken?

 

[SonOfFergie]

Two things with this though. 1, zonally, wasn't this where De Ligt would have been? At least, it looks like that was where he was on previous corners. 2, surely Dalot gets taken out by a Brentford blocking move (Ajer, as I recall?)

Dunno. Even if this position was to be occupied by DeLight and he was not there Casemiro was assigned temporarily on it. He was there, had the ball coming directly to him. Multiple CL winning CDM should clear this danger.

Regarding Dalot yes there was a bit of a blocking move yes (mostly by our player). But put yourself between player and a direction of a corner first. After he goes by him he puts in no effort to recover, jogging after him.

 

[Cheimoon]

Had it been Onana with the head bleed would the ref have told him to go off and allow the corner to be taken?

No, but special rules apply around goalkeepers. Outfield players that are injured and need attention are supposed to be taken off so play can resume. Those are the rules.

 

[sunama]

I think ETH probably needs to go as well, but we could all be wrong and the experts who are now running United and being patient with him, may well be right. He may well turn it around, I'm not discounting the possibility. At the end of the day, fans know fcuk all and we might as well enjoy the ride as best we can, and take heart when things on the pitch show improvement.

The idea that the "experts" are good at making decisions and we should never question these decisions, has completely been proven wrong. We saw for the last 10 years that the employees paid a lot of money to run the show, got almost every key decision wrong.
Once I've seen that I am no longer going to believe that the experts no better.
The manager absolutely must go (though I wouldn't sack him right now). ETH does not have the ability to take us to where we want to go, hence we should hit the reset button.

Most of the fans could see that certain player purchases were a bad idea and that we should've focused our efforts on different players. The people in charge have demonstrated their incompetency and the current senior management, like the Glazers/Woodward before them, are also demonstrating their incompetency.

The most recent bad decision was in the Summer. ETH had demonstrated that he was a manager capable of getting 8th place. He was not replaced. And now that the season has started, we can't get a suitable replacement while ETH is demonstrating for a second season in a row, that he is a mid-table manager. Back in the Summer, we should've replaced the manager. I knew this. But the "experts" apparently could not see this.

Don't trust the Senior Management blindly. A lot of the time, they don't know what they are doing and can't see obvious issues.

 

[nickm]

The idea that the "experts" are good at making decisions and we should never question these decisions, has completely been proven wrong. We saw for the last 10 years that the employees paid a lot of money to run the show, got almost every key decision wrong.
Once I've seen that I am no longer going to believe that the experts no better.
The manager absolutely must go (though I wouldn't sack him right now). ETH does not have the ability to take us to where we want to go, hence we should hit the reset button.

Most of the fans could see that certain player purchases were a bad idea and that we should've focused our efforts on different players. The people in charge have demonstrated their incompetency and the current senior management, like the Glazers/Woodward before them, are also demonstrating their incompetency.

The most recent bad decision was in the Summer. ETH had demonstrated that he was a manager capable of getting 8th place. He was not replaced. And now that the season has started, we can't get a suitable replacement while ETH is demonstrating for a second season in a row, that he is a mid-table manager. Back in the Summer, we should've replaced the manager. I knew this. But the "experts" apparently could not see this.

Don't trust the Senior Management blindly. A lot of the time, they don't know what they are doing and can't see obvious issues.

Hindsight. And while I would like CL qualification this season, I would be prepared to sacrifice that if it made consistent CL qualification over many seasons more likely. Retaining ETH until the right candidate is available might be the only way to achieve that. We'll see.

 

[RedFanaticTattooist]

It's not simplistic. When United win, I feel happy. That's the point. I'm not sitting there regretting a victory because it means the manager I hate gets to stay in the role a bit longer. How weird would that be?

A lot of people have convinced themselves that because Ten Hag MUST apparently go, but hasn't yet, the people who employ him are therefore incompetent, any wins are pointless, the club's troubles are irretrievable etc etc.

I think ETH probably needs to go as well, but we could all be wrong and the experts who are now running United and being patient with him, may well be right. He may well turn it around, I'm not discounting the possibility. At the end of the day, fans know fcuk all and we might as well enjoy the ride as best we can, and take heart when things on the pitch show improvement.

Oh, I've read exactly the same opinions 100 times in the last 2+ years. "He may well turn it around..." and "...and the experts who are now running United and being patient with him, may well be right.". And what happened? We are literally worse than ever. Under ten Hag the team broke almost all (if not ALL) negative records, the statistics are ridiculous, ten Hag's favourite signings like Antony, Zirkzee, Malacia etc are all flops, but yeah, there's always hope that we will finish in the top 10. What an achievment from a squad worth 860 million euros. And if those experts you mentioned are so patient with him explain why the were searching for a replacement? Even teh Hag knows that INEOS were in talks with Tuchel and some others and he could stay only because those negotiations were unsuccessful. Ten Hag had more than 2 years to prove that he is the man for the job but he failed completely.

 

[nickm]

Win=happy, loss=sad. You cannot be more simplystic i guess.

Enjoy being miserable then!

 

[Insanity]

@justsomebloke @sunama @fergiewherearethou @matherto @redmanx @Betson

Thanks for your replies, guys.

 

[nickm]

Oh, I've read exactly the same opinions 100 times in the last 2+ years. "He may well turn it around..." and "...and the experts who are now running United and being patient with him, may well be right.". And what happened? We are literally worse than ever. Under ten Hag the team broke almost all (if not ALL) negative records, the statistics are ridiculous, ten Hag's favourite signings like Antony, Zirkzee, Malacia etc are all flops, but yeah, there's always hope that we will finish in the top 10. What an achievment from a squad worth 860 million euros. And if those experts you mentioned are so patient with him explain why the were searching for a replacement? Even teh Hag knows that INEOS were in talks with Tuchel and some others and he could stay only because those negotiations were unsuccessful. Ten Hag had more than 2 years to prove that he is the man for the job but he failed completely.

Yes, I think ETH needs to go, it's just a matter of when.

I do however understand why they decided to keep him over the summer given the changes happening in total at the club and the lack of better options in the market.

And I also understand why our new management team is showing patience right at this moment (8 games in) again because they don't have great alternatives and don't want to make panicky changes.

But I don't think it will last forever. If results don't improve, then he's out before Xmas IMO. If they do, and we improve but still finish outside the CL places - which is most likely - then I think he's out at the end of the season.

There isn't a miracle managerial signing who is going to get us into the CL this season.

And to be fair to Malacia, he's been injured since 2023

 

[redmanx]

Eh? Why can't we build on this? Onana has been consistent all season, De Ligt was fantastic beside Jonny yesterday, Licha solid at left back, good structure in the centre of the park in the second half with De Ligt snapping into everything that got beyond Casemiro and Erikson, clear intent and consistent threat from both Garnacho and Rashford, a proper centre forward display from Rasmus....
By all means talk about our inconsistency but don't give me there's nothing to build on.

If the players become more consistent then we will have something to build on; you cant build on rotten foundations.