[Tap]

so basically.. he will be effective if all he needs to do is to carry he ball forward unmarked.

Sounds like another Pogba. To perform, he needs XXX tactics and players around him.

 

[justsomebloke]

Good result, not a bad performance overall.

That being said, it's a strangely drab experience watching them these days. Right now this feels like a team that is, if not running on fumes, then at least a team that know their limits and are way beyond any notion of trying to expand them for the time being. Defensively solid, control in the midfield and precious little in the way of scoring. That yields the sort of results we're currently getting - mostly narrow wins, sometimes if we're unlucky narrow losses. It doesn't feel like the sort of team that feels it can and should go places, but I guess that's understandable, given the number of games they have in their legs and the need to just secure a few points to get over the CL-qualifying finishing line.

I thought Casemiro looked back to something near his top level yesterday, which was nice to see. Eriksen also very good, if mainly for the first 20-25 minutes. The back 4 excellent throughout, especially Lindelof, who's having a really strong finish to the season - I think the best I've seen him in his time with United. Up front, Sancho was okay but Bruno, Antony and Martial got very little done. It actually improved the team when Weghorst came on, and then Garnacho. The latter has had two strong cameos now since returning - hope he gets a start soon.

 

[red woppit]

We need a complete revamp of the attack and we need to be ruthless. We are atleast 2 or 3 transfer windows from competing against City.

At a minimum, we a number 9, a partner for Casemiro, a left footed attacker who can play on the right and a right back. The concept of a classic line hogging winger is outdated and we need to move away from that.

The likes of Wout, Sancho, Dalot, mc Fred need to go. We really need to tear up their contracts somehow.

Some good points, but I'm pretty sure we won't tear up their contracts. Wout will just move on, Sancho, Dalot, McTominay and Fred would all fetch a certain amount of cash.

 

[Marwood]

We need a complete revamp of the attack and we need to be ruthless. We are atleast 2 or 3 transfer windows from competing against City.

At a minimum, we a number 9, a partner for Casemiro, a left footed attacker who can play on the right and a right back. The concept of a classic line hogging winger is outdated and we need to move away from that.

The likes of Wout, Sancho, Dalot, mc Fred need to go. We really need to tear up their contracts somehow.

I don't think our wide players are old school line hoggers. They can't be if they're the opposite foot to the wing they play on. Certainly I don't think they're wider than City's or Arsenals.

They're just not good enough.

 

[justsomebloke]

Feels so weird that United are not messing up / bottling it at the end of season games. Seems like last 4 or 5 years, every time we have either limped out of the top 4 or made it comfortably before it ever became a run in.

Even the COVID season, our form behind closed doors fell off a cliff in the last few games.

The last 2 results have been phenomenal and we can’t underestimate how important they will be for the next few years. It could easily have gone all wrong with the momentum having shifted to Liverpool in the last 2 months but we are doing a professional job at getting it over the line.

It's solid certainly, but surely "phenomenal" is not the word for 1-0 wins over Wolves and Bournemouth?

 

[moses]

Wish I could get those 90 minutes back

Don't watch and then don't post. Everyone's a winner.

 

[Denis79]

Wish I could get those 90 minutes back

It wasn't THAT bad. I think our defence did a top notch job, our attackers were poor though, I agree.

 

[DJ_21]

Wish I could get those 90 minutes back

You not happy that our team won? I don’t care how ugly it is. We did the job. We now need 1 point to return to the CL.

 

[DJ_21]

3 needed points. Just got to get one more win

Don’t even need that. Just need 1 point.

 

[TsuWave]

Don't watch and then don't post. Everyone's a winner.

I didn’t know the performance was going to be boring, otherwise I wouldn’t have watched. It was a laborious show - with little to be excited about except Casemiro’s great finish and Garnacho’s dribble early when he came one.

Moreover, are we only supposed to comment positive stuff about performances and can’t say when we find something poor/boring? I’ve received a quality control warning for calling Bruno’s performance in this same game “diabolical”, which I though was reflective of how he did - and not long after you quoted this post in this thread. You’re moderation staff so clarification would be appreciated.

You not happy that our team won? I don’t care how ugly it is. We did the job. We now need 1 point to return to the CL.

I am of course happy with the win, my post was in relation to the performance. I found it a poor watch. After the early goal I expected us to grow into the game and get a few more, which never materialised.

Hopefully we put up a better show, along with getting the result, next game.

 

[glasgow 21]

I didn’t know the performance was going to be boring, otherwise I wouldn’t have watched. It was a laborious show - with little to be excited about except Casemiro’s great finish and Garnacho’s dribble early when he came one.

Moreover, are we only supposed to comment positive stuff about performances and can’t say when we find something poor/boring? I’ve received a quality control warning for calling Bruno’s performance in this same game “diabolical”, which I though was reflective of how he did - and not long after you quoted this post in this thread. You’re moderation staff so clarification would be appreciated.



I am of course happy with the win, my post was in relation to the performance. I found it a poor watch. After the early goal I expected us to grow into the game and get a few more, which never materialised.

Hopefully we put up a better show, along with getting the result, next game.

Im blaming the luminous green strip today what was that all about.

 

[moses]

I didn’t know the performance was going to be boring, otherwise I wouldn’t have watched. It was a laborious show - with little to be excited about except Casemiro’s great finish and Garnacho’s dribble early when he came one.

Moreover, are we only supposed to comment positive stuff about performances and can’t say when we find something poor/boring? I’ve received a quality control warning for calling Bruno’s performance in this same game “diabolical”, which I though was reflective of how he did - and not long after you quoted this post in this thread. You’re moderation staff so clarification would be appreciated.

No problem.

We are a discussion board. The message you received said your post added nothing to the discussion.

Mud flinging is not good for a discussion board. One word or one line insults are ruining the boards for lots of people and we get an increasing amount of complaints and reports on the matter.

Criticism of players, team and performance is encouraged. Glib insults not so much.

When on examination a poster's main contribution has this or any recurring theme that discourages discussion and encourages complaints it's time to let them know.

 

[Sultan]

Yesterday's game reminded me of Wenger's Arsenal to a degree. Trying to pass the ball into the net.

 

[nickm]

It's solid certainly, but surely "phenomenal" is not the word for 1-0 wins over Wolves and Bournemouth?

At this point in the season, the result is all that matters.

 

[nickm]

I didn’t know the performance was going to be boring, otherwise I wouldn’t have watched.

Seriously?

 

[moses]

Yesterday's game reminded me of Wenger's Arsenal to a degree. Trying to pass the ball into the net.

But weirdly combined with unrealistic long shots.

I think a lot of our lack of invention is fatigue.

 

[Idxomer]

The only player who should be allowed to shoot from a distance is Casemiro and maybe to a lesser degree Shaw and Rashford too.

 

[The Irish Connection]

Great result. It’s all about the points at this part of the season and we held our nerve and dug out a clean sheet. Cheer up everyone!

Definitely. Nearly there now.

 

[Sultan]

But weirdly combined with unrealistic long shots.

I think a lot of our lack of invention is fatigue.

I don't think the last 2 games have been affected by fatigue. They've had good rest. Just a lack of quality in the front three of Sancho, Antony and Martial and then Weghorst.

 

[Sultan]

Anyway, it was a nervy game to watch with Liverpool wanting to gatecrash. It must have been a similar situation for the players affecting the performance. The important thing was the positive result on this occasion.

 

[moses]

I don't think the last 2 games have been affected by fatigue. They've had good rest. Just a lack of quality in the front three of Sancho, Antony and Martial and then Weghorst.

Two weeks doesn't fix that level of fatigue Sults. It's physical as well as mental. The adjustment in physicaldemands this season form the coach was huge, with no recuperating all season. That combined with the whole new coaching philosophy that has been implemented with minimal time on thd training ground is going to cause mental fatigue.

 

[moses]

Anyway, it was a nervy game to watch with Liverpool wanting to gatecrash. It must have been a similar situation for the players affecting the performance. The important thing was the positive result on this occasion.

Yeah, at this point in the season especially, the result is king.

 

[MrBest]

Rubbish performance, the right result. 1 point to go, at the start of the season and someone said 4th, league cup and fa cup final, we would have all grabbed it. Rebuild is definitely needed, but sale needs to hurry up. The icing on cake for the season would be the glazers out and the fa cup. But I am very very happy with 4th and a league cup especially given how basic most of our players are and the fact we do not have a proper striker. Full credit to Hag and to the boys, but 1 point to go.

 

[justsomebloke]

At this point in the season, the result is all that matters.

Sure. But that doesn't make the performances phenomenal. But never mind, it's nothing to have a big debate about.

 

[justsomebloke]

But weirdly combined with unrealistic long shots.

I think a lot of our lack of invention is fatigue.

Only it's been a problem almost the whole season. We never got a really strong attacking game going. Hopefully one we can rectify next season, a lot of the fundamentals are in place.

 

[Redbandito]

Only it's been a problem almost the whole season. We never got a really strong attacking game going. Hopefully one we can rectify next season, a lot of the fundamentals are in place.

That’s debatable. If by “a really strong attacking game” you only mean “goals,” well then you’re clearly right on. But in my opinion, we’ve had spells of great football where we have created opportunities you would expect top sides to finish, and the final quality has just been lacking. That’s why so many have called for a CF. We just don’t have that clinical finisher leading the line. I think another year will greatly aid Antony, who has had plenty of chances himself. It won’t hurt to have Amad pushing him either. Bruno needs the opportunity to be subbed on occasion. His end product hasn’t been there much this year either, or at least it has been erratic. Garnacho should take the next step to give Rashford a breather on a regular basis…perhaps even a game off from time to time. Find a great box to box with some ability to create and finish, andI think this team will have a much better goal record next year. My point is that while the goal scoring has been lacking for the year, I think that has more to do with inexperience, lack of depth and the absence of a top notch CF. This group has not always been elite in creating opportunities, but I think the lack of goals makes it look more dire than it has been for most of the year. Assuming we have funds this summer, I expect all those three concerns to be rectified and a much better output overall next year.

 

[justsomebloke]

That’s debatable. If by “a really strong attacking game” you only mean “goals,” well then you’re clearly right on. But in my opinion, we’ve had spells of great football where we have created opportunities you would expect top sides to finish, and the final quality has just been lacking. That’s why so many have called for a CF. We just don’t have that clinical finisher leading the line. I think another year will greatly aid Antony, who has had plenty of chances himself. It won’t hurt to have Amad pushing him either. Bruno needs the opportunity to be subbed on occasion. His end product hasn’t been there much this year either, or at least it has been erratic. Garnacho should take the next step to give Rashford a breather on a regular basis…perhaps even a game off from time to time. Find a great box to box with some ability to create and finish, andI think this team will have a much better goal record next year. My point is that while the goal scoring has been lacking for the year, I think that has more to do with inexperience, lack of depth and the absence of a top notch CF. This group has not always been elite in creating opportunities, but I think the lack of goals makes it look more dire than it has been for most of the year. Assuming we have funds this summer, I expect all those three concerns to be rectified and a much better output overall next year.

So do I, but I don't agree agree with you that we have looked like a very good attacking team for most of this season. It's simply not the case that we've created a lot, but just failed to finish them - we've done relatively badly both at creating chances and at finishing them.

All of that seems pretty obvious to me just from watching the games, but the stats agree with the eye test in this case: We're 9th in goals scored, 6th in expected goals (which we've underscored more than any other team except Everton). That's actually marginally worse than the previous horror season, when we went 8th and 6th. in 20/21, when we finished 2nd, we were 2nd and 4th. The year before, we were 5th and 4th.

In other words, our attack this year has performed roughly the same as under Rangnick and Ole last season, and considerably worse than under Ole the two previous seasons. And that goes both for chances created and goals scored.

 

[moses]

In other words, our attack this year has performed roughly the same as under Rangnick and Ole last season, and considerably worse than under Ole the two previous seasons. And that goes both for chances created and goals scored.

If you compare the striking options the three managers had, parity is quite an achievement for ETH.

 

[jem]

Sounds like another Pogba. To perform, he needs XXX tactics and players around him.

Yeah, I have to admit, it gets a bit frustrating to spend 80+ million on players who will only thrive if specific other players surround them. For all his frustrating tendencies, this is a great thing about Bruno - he pretty much performs regardless of who is around him.

 

[redmanx]

Yeah, I have to admit, it gets a bit frustrating to spend 80+ million on players who will only thrive if specific other players surround them. For all his frustrating tendencies, this is a great thing about Bruno - he pretty much performs regardless of who is around him.

I dont remember seeing Sanco sulking like a Pogba or Martial, a player we should get rid of asap.

 

[Hackman2210]

To me, there’s a few blatantly obvious things from today’s ”job done”, but ultimately lack lustre, performance.

• Jadon Sancho just does not have the bollocks for the PL. Technically good with the ball at his feet and with time but when pressed - by anyone - he wilts. He literally is scared of his own shadow. Garnacho, an 18 year old kid, comes on and as we have seen time and time again - he just drives down the wing, drives into the box and causes a whole world of problems for any back four. Don‘t get me wrong I am not a Sancho hater, I just wish he’d show some courage and a belief in his own ability. Give him one more season.
• Antony - when he tried to do a rainbow flick at some point in the second half my 16 year old son watching with me just uttered “what a prick”….from the mouths of babes, says it all. Needs to cut that shit out and concentrate on maybe not being so one dimensional. Yes his tracking back has got better but he still has a lot to prove.
• Martial - strolling around again without a care in the world. Yes he’s more effective than Weghorst but so would my Nan be, and she’s been dead for over 30 years. Get rid.
• Weghorst - agree with anyone else as to why ETH seems to think he’s an option. He isn’t. Send him back to Burnley.
• Lindelof - I used to be his biggest detractor, but fair play to him. He’s shown over the last month or so that, when not coupled with Maguire, he’s a good centre half. He’s saved his United career in the last 6 weeks

Hahaha RIP your Nan. God rest her.
Great comparison btw.

 

[Redbandito]

So do I, but I don't agree agree with you that we have looked like a very good attacking team for most of this season. It's simply not the case that we've created a lot, but just failed to finish them - we've done relatively badly both at creating chances and at finishing them.

All of that seems pretty obvious to me just from watching the games, but the stats agree with the eye test in this case: We're 9th in goals scored, 6th in expected goals (which we've underscored more than any other team except Everton). That's actually marginally worse than the previous horror season, when we went 8th and 6th. in 20/21, when we finished 2nd, we were 2nd and 4th. The year before, we were 5th and 4th.

In other words, our attack this year has performed roughly the same as under Rangnick and Ole last season, and considerably worse than under Ole the two previous seasons. And that goes both for chances created and goals scored.

I don’t think we disagree as much as you seem to insinuate. I didn’t say that we’ve looked like a “very good attacking team for most of this season.” I said, “we’ve had spells of great football where we have created opportunities you would expect top sides to finish.” Given that our expected goals are higher than our actual, it seems to demonstrate that, doesn’t it? This was not an elite attack by any means. I listed why I thought that was the case. But I also don’t think it was as dire as some of the posters here have insinuated. If we had actually scored the 6th most goals on the league, we’d likely be competing for second with Arsenal right now. There have been numerous games this year where people were frustrated with our inability to finish clear opportunities. That means we are creating by them and not finishing them. I didn’t say we are creating them at the level of City or Arsenal. I think the fact that we are not finishing our chances is precisely my point. It demonstrates that we are creating chances that we aren’t scoring on. If we finished our expected goals, we’d be right up there with Tottenham and Newcastle (and just behind Liverpool) with a washed up Cristiano Ronaldo at CF for the first half of the year and Wout Weghorst splitting time with Martial for the second half, playing the most games of any team in the top 5 leagues, and doing it with Casemiro, Rashford and Erickson out for decent stretches of play. There is plenty of reason for hope that a couple changes this summer, along with the growth of a couple of our young attackers, could result in a much different end product next year.

 

[justsomebloke]

If you compare the striking options the three managers had, parity is quite an achievement for ETH.

That clearly has something to do with it, yeah. So I'm not really too worried about it. But this is nevertheless a part of the job that remains to be done.

 

[justsomebloke]

I don’t think we disagree as much as you seem to insinuate. I didn’t say that we’ve looked like a “very good attacking team for most of this season.” I said, “we’ve had spells of great football where we have created opportunities you would expect top sides to finish.” Given that our expected goals are higher than our actual, it seems to demonstrate that, doesn’t it? This was not an elite attack by any means. I listed why I thought that was the case. But I also don’t think it was as dire as some of the posters here have insinuated. If we had actually scored the 6th most goals on the league, we’d likely be competing for second with Arsenal right now. There have been numerous games this year where people were frustrated with our inability to finish clear opportunities. That means we are creating by them and not finishing them. I didn’t say we are creating them at the level of City or Arsenal. I think the fact that we are not finishing our chances is precisely my point. It demonstrates that we are creating chances that we aren’t scoring on. If we finished our expected goals, we’d be right up there with Tottenham and Newcastle (and just behind Liverpool) with a washed up Cristiano Ronaldo at CF for the first half of the year and Wout Weghorst splitting time with Martial for the second half, playing the most games of any team in the top 5 leagues, and doing it with Casemiro, Rashford and Erickson out for decent stretches of play. There is plenty of reason for hope that a couple changes this summer, along with the growth of a couple of our young attackers, could result in a much different end product next year.

Well, the point is we're not really creating them that much either. If our goals equaled our xG, we'd be 7th in that category. But yeah, there are reasons like you say and good cause to think this will improve with further strengthening of the squad next season.

 

[BorisManUtd]

I think this game showed once again our current strenghts and weaknesses.

Team kept 17th clean sheet of the season, most in the league, and we've got 3rd best defence despite 3-4 thrashings we experienced. Back 6 (De Gea, defence, Casemiro) were really good and won us the game. It was our 7th 1-0 win in PL. Thought Eriksen was good as well.

However, our attack was poor as usual. 52 goals scored so far in the league, that's 10th best, behind every team from top half of the table. 21 goal involvements from Rashford in those 52 goals. He's our only really good attacking threat and when he's not playing like yesterday or not in form, we're in big trouble. Weghorst has a good workrate but just doesn't score ever, Sancho is not threatening enough and Antony's decision making is frustrating.

Goalscoring in general has been one of our big problems ever since Fergie retired. We only scored 70+ goals once since 12/13 and that was in 20/21 season (73 goals), where that 9-0 win over Southampton pushed those numbers to get over 70. Haven't signed striker of great calibre since van Persie. Guess we expected Lukaku to be at least close to it but it didn't work out sadly.

 

[jem]

I dont remember seeing Sanco sulking like a Pogba or Martial, a player we should get rid of asap.

And what does that have to do with what I posted?

 

[Lost bear]

Good result, not a bad performance overall.

That being said, it's a strangely drab experience watching them these days. Right now this feels like a team that is, if not running on fumes, then at least a team that know their limits and are way beyond any notion of trying to expand them for the time being. Defensively solid, control in the midfield and precious little in the way of scoring. That yields the sort of results we're currently getting - mostly narrow wins, sometimes if we're unlucky narrow losses. It doesn't feel like the sort of team that feels it can and should go places, but I guess that's understandable, given the number of games they have in their legs and the need to just secure a few points to get over the CL-qualifying finishing line.

I thought Casemiro looked back to something near his top level yesterday, which was nice to see. Eriksen also very good, if mainly for the first 20-25 minutes. The back 4 excellent throughout, especially Lindelof, who's having a really strong finish to the season - I think the best I've seen him in his time with United. Up front, Sancho was okay but Bruno, Antony and Martial got very little done. It actually improved the team when Weghorst came on, and then Garnacho. The latter has had two strong cameos now since returning - hope he gets a start soon.

I know what you mean. I think the team- including the manager- recognise their limitations. They are, in addition, tired, which is understandable given that they’ve been playing twice a week for pretty much half the season.

In a way, I personally welcome this realism. But along with it, I think that so long as the ownership situation is sorted, and hopefully the vampires gone, we’ll really begin again next season. Clearly we need investment in a striker — pretty desperately.

It’s been a good season, though, far better than I expected. I still have a lot of trust in ETH. But I think next year will be better still. We’re not so far off.

 

[NICanRed]

I think this game showed once again our current strenghts and weaknesses.

Team kept 17th clean sheet of the season, most in the league, and we've got 3rd best defence despite 3-4 thrashings we experienced. Back 6 (De Gea, defence, Casemiro) were really good and won us the game. It was our 7th 1-0 win in PL. Thought Eriksen was good as well.

However, our attack was poor as usual. 52 goals scored so far in the league, that's 10th best, behind every team from top half of the table. 21 goal involvements from Rashford in those 52 goals. He's our only really good attacking threat and when he's not playing like yesterday or not in form, we're in big trouble. Weghorst has a good workrate but just doesn't score ever, Sancho is not threatening enough and Antony's decision making is frustrating.

Goalscoring in general has been one of our big problems ever since Fergie retired. We only scored 70+ goals once since 12/13 and that was in 20/21 season (73 goals), where that 9-0 win over Southampton pushed those numbers to get over 70. Haven't signed striker of great calibre since van Persie. Guess we expected Lukaku to be at least close to it but it didn't work out sadly.

Fantasy I know - but if we had scored one more goal per game we would now be in second place with 85 points! 4 losses would be draws and 6 draws would be wins.

 

[NICanRed]

I think this game showed once again our current strenghts and weaknesses.

Team kept 17th clean sheet of the season, most in the league, and we've got 3rd best defence despite 3-4 thrashings we experienced. Back 6 (De Gea, defence, Casemiro) were really good and won us the game. It was our 7th 1-0 win in PL. Thought Eriksen was good as well.

However, our attack was poor as usual. 52 goals scored so far in the league, that's 10th best, behind every team from top half of the table. 21 goal involvements from Rashford in those 52 goals. He's our only really good attacking threat and when he's not playing like yesterday or not in form, we're in big trouble. Weghorst has a good workrate but just doesn't score ever, Sancho is not threatening enough and Antony's decision making is frustrating.

Goalscoring in general has been one of our big problems ever since Fergie retired. We only scored 70+ goals once since 12/13 and that was in 20/21 season (73 goals), where that 9-0 win over Southampton pushed those numbers to get over 70. Haven't signed striker of great calibre since van Persie. Guess we expected Lukaku to be at least close to it but it didn't work out sadly.

Fantasy I know - but if we had scored one more goal per game we would now have 85 points and be lying second!
4 losses would have been draws and 6 draws would have been wins. So in fact we only needed to score 10 more - not 36!!