[ThinkTank@Cafe]

There have been way worse games to fall asleep to in the past. Especially under LVG.

Age might just be catching up

I’m 45 it’s more of a burnout. LVG was just a couple of years away from glorious SAF era. Now, we are into 12th year of being a Spurs/Newcastle level team.

 

[Florida Man]

Who ever did the scouting report on Zirkzee needs to go , hope it wasnt a toss up between him and Toni , I cannot see for the life of me what he brings to the team !!

Wouldn’t mind seeing him play the 10 role or behind the striker in a 4-4-2 (assuming a new manager experiments with that). He’s shown already to be a good chance creator and good link up play, but has no business being an out and out striker otherwise.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

I didn’t know Anthony was on until added time.

He did more than most, ha. That's not saying much of course!

 

[Hammondo]

Wouldn’t mind seeing him play the 10 role or behind the striker in a 4-4-2 (assuming a new manager experiments with that). He’s shown already to be a good chance creator and good link up play, but has no business being an out and out striker otherwise.

We are playing a 4-4-2 and it really doesn't work.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

Both teams were awful. Understandable hangover from Villa after the Bayern win. For us, no excuse. Should be fighting for their lives.

What's up with Ugarte, is he hurt?

 

[Dike_Manc]

Garnacho gets away with murder around here. He is horrendous a lot of the time. Yes, he is young but so is Mainoo. And although Mainoo wasn't great, he was at least competent.
I'd go with Rashford and Amad till further notice.

 

[Lee565]

It's an absolute farce, all the excuses that we just needed to sign ugarte and we would be transformed and yet he his sat on the bench I favour of eriksen and mainoo, there was the excuse that he needed 1 billion to sign his own players amd we would finally see a different united under ten hag and yet we start the game with evans and maguire in defence and then brings lindelof on in the second half.

The excuses he gets afforded are just a joke.

 

[DSG]

Playing for a draw away at Villa. Says volumes about our mentality at the moment.

scored 5 goals in 7 matches, good for 18th!

 

[quadrant]

The only two teams with the same or fewer goals scored than us are both in the relegation zone.

 

[Alemar]

One of the least talented players we've ever had - and that is some achievement.

Manucho level, I would have thought

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

I’m not sure if BBC are just useless or doing this deliberately … not the first time.

“The nearest they came against Aston Villa were a couple of Marcus Rashford efforts that were well saved by Emiliano Martinez and a late break where Alejandro Garnacho failed to find skipper Bruno Fernandes with a cross-field pass that would have provided a clear run on the home goal.”

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I’m not sure if BBC are just useless or doing this deliberately … not the first time.

“The nearest they came against Aston Villa were a couple of Marcus Rashford efforts that were well saved by Emiliano Martinez and a late break where Alejandro Garnacho failed to find skipper Bruno Fernandes with a cross-field pass that would have provided a clear run on the home goal.”

Wasn't Bruno's freekick the nearest we came to scoring.

 

[Waynne]

Nice to wake up to the fact we didn't get mauled.

 

[Pscholes18]

Un-fecking-inspiring. Rashford is a bellend. Lucky to not get sent off, so predictable, dribble, dribble, dribble, cut in, shoot. Bruno shite as usual. Zirkzee shite, Mainoo not himself this season.....Antony shite.....hard to like any of these players right now. Not sure what happened to the passing we were seeing at the beginning of the season, team has reverted back to last year.

 

[THIFE24]

I do think that there is improvement today albeit minor. Like everyone said, at least it wasn’t a loss.

 

[GledTheRed]

I miss scoring goals.

 

[GledTheRed]

Un-fecking-inspiring. Rashford is a bellend. Lucky to not get sent off, so predictable, dribble, dribble, dribble, cut in, shoot. Bruno shite as usual. Zirkzee shite, Mainoo not himself this season.....Antony shite.....hard to like any of these players right now. Not sure what happened to the passing we were seeing at the beginning of the season, team has reverted back to last year.

I thought Rashford was our only likely scorer.

 

[JJ12]

Much better without the ball. Absolutely clueless with it.

Evans outstanding.

 

[Tincanalley]

I must say...I had a reat nap.

Neat, yes

 

[Tincanalley]

In isolation, that was a solid battling performance against a good team in high confidence.

Just because we've been bad recently doesn't mean we get to expect amazing performances to balance that out. Games like this, assuming the manager stays, are what's needed to start to build something.

Of course most on here don't want to hear that. They just want a new manager at any cost. But if he is staying then that's a solid performance to try to build on. Or more ammunition to berate the players, management and ownership, depending on how you want to see it I guess.

Good post. Hopefully things improve. Obviously this is very much a work in progress

 

[caid]

In isolation its a decent performance and result. Our lack of goal threat in the last 20 mins in particular would be a bit of a worry.
Ten Hag needs more than decent performances at this point in my opinion. And in the context of the wider season were pretty fecking toothless.
Rashford actually looked pretty decent to be fair to him, fairly dumb tackle excluded.

 

[Catalandevil]

We defended reasonably well, but we are so bad at everything else. We can’t make 3 passes together. As a result, we struggle to play from the back. Also, our structure when we are attacking is chaotic. No wonder we don’t score goals.

We need a playmaker. It was so clear that it hurts to see how no resources were allocated to solve this need during summer. It was much more important than signing Ugarte, a RB or an extra CB.

Also, the lack of urgency was difficult to digest, almost as much as the lack of a clear game plan to try to win the match.

Enough is enough.

 

[Sea-Cow]

Any word on Mazz and Harry injuries?

 

[Snow]

Wasn't Bruno's freekick the nearest we came to scoring.

From an actual attempt yes. The Garnacho to Bruno pass was a 2v1 scenario.

 

[Chicharo]

In the old days, this would've been a convincing 2-0 win against an understandably worn-out opponent who'd just had a difficult match in the CL..
Just sack him already

 

[Snow]

I’m 45 it’s more of a burnout. LVG was just a couple of years away from glorious SAF era. Now, we are into 12th year of being a Spurs/Newcastle level team.

We're more like an Arsenal level team. Arsenal haven't won the league in 20 years but they have won FA Cups. Newcastle hasn't won a thing since 1955 and Spurs win a trophy every 12 years or so.
We've won 5 trophies since SAF retired. That's bettered by City, Chelsea and Liverpool making us the 4th best English team in the last decade. Better than Arsenal, levels above Spurs and Newcastle.

Being unhappy with the most recent quality of football doesn't change the facts. Teams around us aren't much better and those that currently are weren't in a good place a short time ago.

 

[justsomebloke]

Both teams were awful. Understandable hangover from Villa after the Bayern win. For us, no excuse. Should be fighting for their lives.

What's up with Ugarte, is he hurt?

And what did Martinez do, to not only get pulled for Jonny Evans, but also being deemed inferior to Victor Lindelof as a full back option? I mean, not that he's been great lately, but still.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

Any word on Mazz and Harry injuries?

Ten Hag told the BBC after the goalless draw: "We have to take them off at half-time. Tomorrow we have to see what is the diagnosis on it."

He added in his post-match interview with MUTV: "We have to assess this. I can’t tell you now what the issue is. I know what the issue is but [I cannot say now] how good or bad it is. We have to see assess this tomorrow [Monday] and then we will bring you news."

 

[justsomebloke]

Un-fecking-inspiring. Rashford is a bellend. Lucky to not get sent off, so predictable, dribble, dribble, dribble, cut in, shoot. Bruno shite as usual. Zirkzee shite, Mainoo not himself this season.....Antony shite.....hard to like any of these players right now. Not sure what happened to the passing we were seeing at the beginning of the season, team has reverted back to last year.

Well, if I'm doing the negatives my first mentions would be Højlund, Zirkzee, Garnacho and Eriksen, not Rashford, Bruno or Mainoo.

Højlund in particular. At one point, he managed to nick the ball high up the pitch and very nearly created a chance. Before that, literally his only contribution to the game had been to lose the ball three times. After that, nothing.

But whatever.

 

[Shiva87]

Complete disheartening performance that. Nothing from the squad that makes us believe that this manager can make us win games that we need to win.

I don’t think he lasts beyond Christmas. We have really fallen off a cliff

 

[gerdm07]

I paused the match after 15 minutes and took a nap. Then watched it all later.

- Is Antony really a head of Amad now?
- Hojlund looks so clumsy with the ball. I don't see how he becomes a great goal scorer
- Zirkzee's dribble excursion was painful to watch. I don't see how he becomes a great goal scorer
- Garnacho just doesn't know how to make penetrating passes. It's either pass back or dribble into trouble. I don't see how he'll ever be a consistent starter for Argentina.

We don't have any fleet footed players who are good with the ball. Half the team on AV is fleet footed and good with the ball. Cash, Bailey, Watkins, Tieleman, Rogers, Philogene and Barkley are all quick and good with the ball. It's just amazing that we have recruited a team that goes against what modern football is all about now.

Bruno slow
De Ligt slow
Dalot average quickness
Casemiro slow
Hojlund slow first steps
Zirkzee big not quick
Mainoo somewhat quick.
Mazraoui somewhat quick
Eriksen slow
Garnacho pretty quick
Evans slow but smart

 

[Melville Red]

Is ten Hag in or out?

I don’t know however he’s not even shaking it all about.
Later on though I did enjoy seeing Spurs do a Utd.

 

[gerdm07]

We're more like an Arsenal level team. Arsenal haven't won the league in 20 years but they have won FA Cups. Newcastle hasn't won a thing since 1955 and Spurs win a trophy every 12 years or so.
We've won 5 trophies since SAF retired. That's bettered by City, Chelsea and Liverpool making us the 4th best English team in the last decade. Better than Arsenal, levels above Spurs and Newcastle.

Being unhappy with the most recent quality of football doesn't change the facts. Teams around us aren't much better and those that currently are weren't in a good place a short time ago.

I think it's more important to battle for PL titles than anything else. I don't expect to win too many PL titles with the competition now, but I would like to be in the mix late March or early April.

Arsenal at least have a chance to win PL titles so they are miles above us right now.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

And what did Martinez do, to not only get pulled for Jonny Evans, but also being deemed inferior to Victor Lindelof as a full back option? I mean, not that he's been great lately, but still.

Great point and bizarre to me too mate.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

In the old days, this would've been a convincing 2-0 win against an understandably worn-out opponent who'd just had a difficult match in the CL..
Just sack him already

I don't disagree with the sack but we had a shite battle on Thursday too.

 

[A-man]

And what did Martinez do, to not only get pulled for Jonny Evans, but also being deemed inferior to Victor Lindelof as a full back option? I mean, not that he's been great lately, but still.

In what way do you think Martinez deserved to play? Both Evans and Lindelof did better than what we’ve seen from Martinez lately.

 

[golden_blunder]

not sure, we have any. need to go back to 4-4-2 for a while

Yep. I’d like to see Zirkzee and Hojlund play together before we write them off

 

[oz insomniac]

Surely the most obvious point, is that watching games no one can see a style of play or why some players (hello Rashford) are playing week in and week out when they are obviously out of form and somewhat disinterested.

ETH has failed if we are being honest , and there’s no reason to continue with a failed experiment . He doesn’t seem to have a connection with the players. And he plays a build up that is so slow, good Sunday pub teams would defend easily.

Just move him on already, and do some real investigations into a modern, young manager who understands how to play to the teams strengths , not some strange vision like ETH and back him. There are74,000 fans in the stadium each week who are becoming disillusioned by the mess ETH created. Time to act or support will suffer.

 

[bb8]

After the horror show against Spurs, and the collapse vs Porto, I did fear the worse. We weren't as easy to play through as usual, but we looked tepid up front. Ten Hag can't find the right balance

Was there anything tactically he did that made us even less of a threat than usual? He had Bruno and Eriksen in, our two best offensive midfielders. Wouldn't think Hojlund for Zirkzee is an offensive downgrade, nor Maguire/Evans for Licha/MDL.

It looked like we tried a bit less counter-attacking. I thought we had some decent possessions to get it into the final third, and then really poor play afterwards.

Idk? Can't really think of anything.

 

[tenpoless]

We broke every manager we hired post Fergie:

1. Moyes: was a promising manager ready for the next level. Turned into a joke, made into memes all over the internet, daughter was gossiped to be dating Zaha, celebrating a draw with a fist bump
2. Van Gaal: was good at the world cup with Netherlands, was a quite reputable club manager himself. He's turned into a meme again and sacked after winning the FA cup. Now he's bitter towards the club
3. Mourinho: Chelsea broke him but United really destroyed him. He became a smelly old man who constantly reminded people of his past successes. "Respect", "Football 'erritage", "E bought, E bought Ederson" (referring to Pep whom he managed to get under the skin of during his Real stint)
4. Ole: Club legend. Did well at the start. Ended up broken and referred to as P.E teacher and passun merchant. In one season he's gone from being worshiped for bringing back Ronaldo to abused for bringing back Ronaldo (which I believe should have been the club's decision than him. Almost all managers would have taken Ronaldo after Juve if the club allowed it)
5. Ten Hag: Like Van Gaal minus the world cup part. Didn't get the sack after FA cup win. But he's lost all his charisma. People used to love his 'hehs' now it sounds like a fart. He doesn't seem to know how to get out of the situation as well. A promising win usually followed by streaks of bad performances, bad results, or both. And the club still can't see it.

I'm sick of it, Robbie. When is it going to end.... I could understand if it's like most clubs. A manager did bad for one season, sacked, and then they moved on. But we seem to have the ability to absolutely destroy them before stopping. What hope is there left.