[what a mess]

Once again I come here to write about my bewilderment at how we haven't gotten the result. A common theme this season. It's mental at this stage, we've been so unlucky. Hate to use that as an excuse because it's shite, but it's pretty accurate. How have we not won that today? Completely undeserved for Arsenal. I guess the old lesson about always needing a second goal rings true again.

I was impressed with a lot of people today and I definitely want to see more of this Valencia, like the old days. Using his pace, taking people on. Making stuff happen. I also really enjoyed Mata's goal. Classy stuff.

I agree with a lot of this post I thought Mata was excellent and Herrera by far the best player on he pitch and so good to see Jones play a full game but one thing is obvious without Zlatan we lack a focal point for the attack in all honesty it's no good Valencia speeding down the wing with no one to hit in the middle. Today once again made it clear that Rashford is nowhere near the finished article and we should all stop demanding that he plays through the middle he is not yet ready for it .
The most worrying aspect is Martial continuing to look out of sorts , he had a couple of decent attempts but in general he looked lazy and disinterested , we need some real dynamism , hopefully Zlatan will get us the goals we need backed up by a few from midfield honestly can't see Rashford or martial scoring more than a dozen each

 

[TheReligion]

In the same way that one great game against Chelsea doesn't make us champions, one average-poor game today doesn't make us a horrible team.

We didn't play like an Arsenal team, Wenger sent out the team to shut up shop. Two defensive midfielders, plus another on the wing and our attacking players weren't as adventurous as they usually are. Don't blame us for not playing a style of football we were not intent on playing.

On top of that, Sanchez isn't fully fit, Ramsey is still finding his feet and Jenkinson started his first game in months.

This meant that while the defensive game plan worked to a degree, we couldn't create enough chances at the other end, until Giroud scored

At the end of the day, it worked, we got a result. Cech made a few saves. I can remember 3 or 4 at most. It wasn't a dominating performance by United in my view. One would expect an opposition goalkeeper to be called into action at least once at Old Trafford.

United played well but to be honest it was quite a dull game for large stretches, draw deserved in my opinion.

We didn't play at our best but got a result we came for.

Which begs the question why you would come to OT looking for a draw given United are out of sorts and with a makeshift back 4?

Arsenal were nullified by United. De Gea didn't make a single save and Arsenal had one shot on target in 90 minutes - the headed goal by Giroud.

United deserved 3 points.

 

[Frank Grimes]

People blaming Mourinho for the equaliser are idiots.

 

[Glideman]

Cowardice is its own reward. Take off your best attacking player when you have the impetus (when your DCM is struggling with a leg injury!) and sit back and you deserve what you get. The players didn't deserve to drop the points today, but the manager did.

What are you on about? Most managers take off an attacking midfielder when the opposing team throw on as many attackers as possible and we're tiring. You guys on the forum think every time should be in attack mode.

If Rashford fouls Ox we win the game, the sub didn't cause us to lose, a near perfect cross from Ox and a mistake cost us, that's unlucky.

 

[Powderfinger]

Arsenal were awful and United were clearly on top of the match between about minute 35 and minute 75. But its not like United created much when dominating the match. .57 xG is terrible in the abstract for an entire match. It just looked good in comparison because Arsenal created literally nothing until the Giroud chance. We have no idea how to play without Cazorla and Bellerin, Wenger set up for a draw without much of a plan of how we'd actually create anything ourselves, and it showed.

 

[Brophs]

People blaming Mourinho for the equaliser are idiots.

I don't think he's especially to blame, but if you make a change to try close the game down and ultimately don't close the game down, you're not likely to get much in the way of praise.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Pity rooney when he came on didnt go on the left and leave Rashford up front.

 

[caid]

I feel weirdly optimistic after that tbh.
I think our best 11 and the general way we play is starting to take shape and it looks promising.

Our goalscorers aren't really scoring goals but ... they're young and martial looks to be picking up a bit of form last couple of matches.
You'd hope / suspect it'll come with time.

Dont really expect us to do anything this season despite being optimistic.
Were just not the dominant team we were and an awful lot of what were lacking now vs then is based on habit and psychology
(teams fancy their chance of getting a result against us in a way they didn't 5 years ago).
Our luck has been utterly crap and I just dont think it'll really be 'our' year.
Pobga will take a year to settle i expect, Martial and Rashford are having a harder time this season.
Our results have been pretty poor up to now and theres just a lot more competition.
Honestly anything we achieve this season I'll view as a bonus.

I hope we take the chance this season to get our house in order for moving forward
and are patient enough to let that happen without losing our shit at the more disappointing weeks.

 

[TheReligion]

Arsenal were awful and United were clearly on top of the match between about minute 35 and minute 75. But its not like United created much when dominating the match. .57 xG is terrible in the abstract for an entire match. It just looked good in comparison because Arsenal created literally nothing until the Giroud chance. We have no idea how to play without Cazorla and Bellerin, Wenger set up for a draw without much of a plan of how we'd actually create anything ourselves, and it showed.

Literally nothing? I'll correct you. Absolutely nothing. De Gea didn't touch the ball with his hands once.

Why you'd come for a draw at OT when United are struggling and have a make shift back 4 is beyond me.

United deserved 3 points.

 

[Powderfinger]

Literally nothing? I'll correct you. Absolutely nothing. De Gea didn't touch the ball with his hands once.

Why you'd come for a draw at OT when United are struggling and have a make shift back 4 is beyond me.

United deserved 3 points.

I'm not sure what the difference between "literally nothing" and "absolutely nothing" might be, but whatever.

I thought Arsenal deserved nothing from this game. But I'm not sure United really deserved three points either. .57 xG doesn't lie. We were shit and a good side would have punished us at home, but you didn't.

 

[Sandikan]

Literally nothing? I'll correct you. Absolutely nothing. De Gea didn't touch the ball with his hands once.

Why you'd come for a draw at OT when United are struggling and have a make shift back 4 is beyond me.

United deserved 3 points.

Because, the sad truth with Arsenal, is that they're a gutless mob, and have been for the last 10+ years.

When they're 2-0, 3-0 up they'll turn on some glorious football, and all look amazing.

Old Trafford, and many other places, they'll turn up, put a poor performance in and ultimately fail to win the league again.
Last year was the absolute acid test. We had a shocking line up, and still beat them.
Today, against Darmian, Jones and Rojo, they didn't have a sniff until the last min! That must be a worry

 

[TheReligion]

I'm not sure what the difference between "literally nothing" and "absolutely nothing" might be, but whatever.

I thought Arsenal deserved nothing from this game. But I'm not sure United really deserved three points either. .57 xG doesn't lie. We were shit and a good side would have punished us at home, but you didn't.

United made Arsenal look shit.

With a fully fit 11 it would have been a massacre.

 

[Fergus' son]

UTD were good.

Arsenal will win nothing, again.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

What got me was Ozil got rested from the internationals and I forgot he was even playing. So much for Wenger maybe thinking it was an advantage.

 

[Theonas]

We have been definitely more dynamic in the opponents' half over the past few games at home compared to last season. This in itself is a big plus. We press better and more quicker around the opponents' box. We still however for some reason find it incredibly hard to open up a defence and score goals. Our goalscoring record is nothing short of shocking compared to other top teams. This has been the number one problem last year as well. When you look at the number of goals we scored from well worked up movements, it is seriously strange. There was the one against Hull, Mata's vs Leicester, Martial's vs Stoke and today's goal. The rest were individual brilliance from Zlatan or Pogba or set pieces. That's 4 goals all season where we actually opened up a defence through quick movement and passing. I am not sure what the reason behind that. It could be a mental block due to years of offensive impotency or it could simply be that we don't push enough men in the box. The way I see it though is that organisation wise and defensively, we are very solid, just as we were last year. Offensively, we are more dynamic than last year but equally impotent.

 

[Moiraine]

Rashford with his lazy attempt at defending cost us the game. That's basically it.

Don't blame him, he was suppose to be cover alongside "Blind".
there are huge question marks over the "Most Intelligent" player that LVG claimed he is. Thats now twice (as i can recall) he is the reason united lost points. I would rather try Shaw than give him another go at left back.

 

[Theonas]

Don't blame him, he was suppose to be cover alongside "Blind".
there are huge question marks over the "Most Intelligent" player that LVG claimed he is. Thats now twice (as i can recall) he is the reason united lost points. I would rather try Shaw than give him another go at left back.

Maybe today he cost us. The big picture though is that we don't score enough. If you are going to score as little as we do, you need to absolute perfection defensively to win anything which is simply not a realistic target. This is why talking about defensive mistakes is distracting from the real issue when we are this impotent goalscoring wise.

 

[Dobbs]

Literally nothing? I'll correct you. Absolutely nothing.

I'm sure you didn't mean this but it made me laugh anyway.

 

[Moiraine]

Maybe today he cost us. The big picture though is that we don't score enough. If you are going to score as little as we do, you need to absolute perfection defensively to win anything which is simply not a realistic target. This is why talking about defensive mistakes is distracting from the real issue when we are this impotent goalscoring wise.

We got some pedestrians up front i am afraid. Rooney offers nothing upfront to be honest, just waste of space. I wonder what Mourinho was thinking when he brought him on, we desperately needed a more mobile and pacey player to close them down.

Top 4 looks very unlikely with United having to accommodate of the likes of Rooney and Fellaini, let alone the title.

 

[LFC-Fans]

Ive just seen Mourinhos post match interview, my god the stress has taken its toll on this man, I dont know if its just me, but the bags under his eyes seem more pronounced.

The pressure he is under is astronomical.


It makes you think doesnt it? Some jobs in the world just arent worth the rewards. Your health always comes first.

 

[Theonas]

We got some pedestrians up front i am afraid. Rooney offers nothing upfront to be honest, just waste of space. I wonder what Mourinho was thinking when he brought him on, we desperately needed a more mobile and pacey player to close them down.

Top 4 looks very unlikely with United having to accommodate of the likes of Rooney and Fellaini, let alone the title.

I have absolutely no idea why we are so impotent up front but I do know it is not a question of personnel. I look around at other teams and they have far less but still score more goals from open play that we do or did over the past few years. Of course if we had an Agüero, Suarez or Neymar, we'd be better, those players don't need much help to create out of nowhere but not every team that attacks with potency has that quality. Some of our own teams in the past did not look much on paper and still created and scored more. The best guess for me is that it is a mental block from the past few years or if it is simply a problem of coaching that doesn't work on fluidity and cohesiveness as other teams. Personnel wise however, we should be doing so much better.

 

[Theonas]

Ive just seen Mourinhos post match interview, my god the stress has taken its toll on this man, I dont know if its just me, but the bags under his eyes seem more pronounced.

The pressure he is under is astronomical.


It makes you think doesnt it? Some jobs in the world just arent worth the rewards. Your health always comes first.

He is right when he said he set too high expectations and that it is unfair that Wenger gets away with far more. It is only half the story though, other managers who Mourinho is bitter about bring more to the table than results, they can argue that they promote a playing philosophy or produce a playing style or whatever. Mourinho on the other hand made it his mission throughout his career to produce results and only results. People will say "yes he can be a cnut, he can produce some tumescent football, doesn't have a playing identity of his own but my god does he win". This is all good and fine and it suited him his entire career but the problem with that is the second you don't win, you have no backup argument, you have nothing else to justify your work. It can't feel good for him to struggle producing his number one quality.

 

[clarkydaz]

Ive just seen Mourinhos post match interview, my god the stress has taken its toll on this man, I dont know if its just me, but the bags under his eyes seem more pronounced.

The pressure he is under is astronomical.


It makes you think doesnt it? Some jobs in the world just arent worth the rewards. Your health always comes first.

He looks like a man who doesn't enjoy football anymore

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

He looks like a man who doesn't enjoy football anymore

No, he looks like a man who loves to win, in fact, as we all know, winning means everything to him.

 

[POF]

He was very understanding in his interview due to Rashford being tired and Ox fresh, he'll no doubt be annoyed but Rashford is young and Jose will make sure he learns from those types of mistakes.

His comment that Rashford was tired and "everyone thinks he should play every minute of every game" worried me a bit. He clearly was tired and I expected him to go off for Schneiderlin. Maybe he would have if Mata hadn't picked up that knock. But, why does he care what "everyone" thinks? If he doesn't think he should play, don't play him.

It reminded me of LVG's comments to the media about Rooney when he pretty much said he didn't think he was a striker but everyone told him he was throughout his first season so in his second season he would play him there.

When a manager decides who is on the pitch based on any factor other than who he deems is the best option you have big problems. This constant undercurrent that there is far more going on at the club than meets the eye is a bigger concern than the current results and performances.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Killing off teams is still the problem in chief

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

His comment that Rashford was tired and "everyone thinks he should play every minute of every game" worried me a bit. He clearly was tired and I expected him to go off for Schneiderlin. Maybe he would have if Mata hadn't picked up that knock. But, why does he care what "everyone" thinks? If he doesn't think he should play, don't play him.

It reminded me of LVG's comments to the media about Rooney when he pretty much said he didn't think he was a striker but everyone told him he was throughout his first season so in his second season he would play him there.

When a manager decides who is on the pitch based on any factor other than who he deems is the best option you have big problems. This constant undercurrent that there is far more going on at the club than meets the eye is a bigger concern than the current results and performances.

I think it was more likely that he was setting it up to let everyone know that Rashford will be spending a little more time out of the starting 11.

 

[VeevaVee]

Literally nothing? I'll correct you. Absolutely nothing.

Are you drunk TR?

 

[AndyMUFC]

Could just see it coming during the game with the way things have been going for us in recent weeks. They say things coming in three's, and that is three home games in a row where we've deserved to win but haven't. So unlucky.

Arsenal were garbage today, they looked about as far away from a top side as you can get. The first half an hour was virtually a nothing game but we stepped it up as half time approached and then completely dominated the second half.

There are positive signs, but hopefully those signs result in wins before it's too late.

 

[Reggie74]

There was enough in that game for United to of won it. A solid performance.

Arsenal needed an out and out striker to of started the match and once Giroud came on, so did their goal.

More points dropped and even more so at Old Trafford.

The no penalty on Valencia, well I thought I was watching Rugby League there for a moment.

I'd also like to see the celebrating goals with the crowd to stop. Pointless yellow card behaviour.

 

[donkeyfish]

Just watched the game now, and I thought it was a fantastic performance.

Our defensive work throughout the entire game was almost spotless. The threads about the lack of good pressing seems pretty ridiculous now.

Arsenal takes some effort to contain, Ozil had a crap game. We shut down the midfield brilliantly.

Arsenal had 2 chances, we had 6.

Don't understand if someone thinks we laid back too much, I thought we went at them pretty hard the 15min after we scored.

When they push up everything the last 5min, its just stupid to have players running around up front.

One crucial series of mistakes that lead to conceding, which cannot really be avoided 100%.

 

[TheReligion]

He looks like a man who doesn't enjoy football anymore

I think if that were the case he'd knock it on the head. He's enough money.

Instead he's looking to stay at United for years. He just wants to win and will be as frustrated as the fans at the moment.

 

[Janson]

Aye, we were all over Stoke and Burnley... but weren't clinical enough. Our decision to pay so much respect to Arsenal, saw us only score once and thus drop points when they scored an ill-deserved equaliser. It is possible to adapt your approach in-game, once you realise the opposition may not be primed to produce their best. Any significant increase in our tempo in the final third, would've seen us open them up.

I'ts easy to say in hindsight that we should have gone for another. Committing more men forward when in the lead is a gamble that's more likely to see us concede in that situation than score, against top opposition.

That decision to be cautious is not something you base on the opponents level of play in the current game. You base it on the evidence from studying
their strengths from previous games in the season. However weak they might look, they are still capable of pulling of a counterattack from nowhere. There's a reson they're that high up the table.

Basically, what I am trying to say is that the odds of banking on scoring another vs defending the lead with that amount of time left are small. And in this case the most unlikely thing happened.

I'm curious as to what you would have said if we tried to kill of the game with another goal only to concede on the counter? Would you blame Mourinho then for using the wrong tactics?

 

[Frank Grimes]

Arsenal were awful and United were clearly on top of the match between about minute 35 and minute 75. But its not like United created much when dominating the match. .57 xG is terrible in the abstract for an entire match. It just looked good in comparison because Arsenal created literally nothing until the Giroud chance. We have no idea how to play without Cazorla and Bellerin, Wenger set up for a draw without much of a plan of how we'd actually create anything ourselves, and it showed.

Arsenal defended well, but we dominated the midfield. We were the better team but we have often won while not playing well so we may just suck it up.

 

[PaulRich]

I said after the Burnley and Stoke games we needed 10 wins from the next 10 to think about the league, and 24/25 points from the 30 to think about top 4. We can forget the former, but the level of performances tell me that we can achieve the latter. Its encouraging, we mullered a team who have looked impressive for 88 minutes.

 

[bleedred]

Because, the sad truth with Arsenal, is that they're a gutless mob, and have been for the last 10+ years.

When they're 2-0, 3-0 up they'll turn on some glorious football, and all look amazing.

Old Trafford, and many other places, they'll turn up, put a poor performance in and ultimately fail to win the league again.
Last year was the absolute acid test. We had a shocking line up, and still beat them.
Today, against Darmian, Jones and Rojo, they didn't have a sniff until the last min! That must be a worry

Never mind last year. We beat them under Moyes.

 

[Sereques]

Robbed

 

[bosnian_red]

Arsenal were awful and United were clearly on top of the match between about minute 35 and minute 75. But its not like United created much when dominating the match. .57 xG is terrible in the abstract for an entire match. It just looked good in comparison because Arsenal created literally nothing until the Giroud chance. We have no idea how to play without Cazorla and Bellerin, Wenger set up for a draw without much of a plan of how we'd actually create anything ourselves, and it showed.

We didn't create quite as much as we should have of course, but at the same time, we had a decent amount of good positions and positions that just needs the right final pass which let us down most of the time. That's probably the main thing that XG fails to pick up is those really good positions you get yourself in with a bad cross/bad touch/bad pass being the let down. Anyway, the thing was after we scored we were incredibly comfortable, so Mourinho being the pragmatist that he is probably decided it's safer to just sit in and see it out instead of playing the same way. Cost us, but that is part of the reason why our xg was lower.

 

[POF]

I think it was more likely that he was setting it up to let everyone know that Rashford will be spending a little more time out of the starting 11.

Could very well be and I hope that is the case. Rashford needs to be used as an impact player off the bench for a bit. In a game like the Arsenal one his pace can be a big threat on the counter attack late in the game. Whenever the team needs him to provide that outlet late in a game he's usually knackered.

 

[SirMattBugsby]

1) Blaming it on luck, Rashford, referee is short-sighted. Our team lacks balance, whatever the playing style. It was true under LvG, it's equally true now.

2) Don't know why people are calling Arsenal the 'same old' bottlers. They played defensive, were second-best and still managed a point. If anything, it was United who put in a performance like the old Arsenal.

3) Is it just me or did Wenger (perhaps unknowingly and forced by injuries) play Mourinho at his own game? To some extent, it worked because Mourinho teams are not the heaviest scorers without counter-attacks.

4) Martial is not enjoying life on the left wing under Mourinho, neither is Rashford. This is the position Mkhitaryan needs to target to break into the starting eleven.

5) Three slightly tough fixtures coming up. Hopefully we get seven points.

 

[Sensei]

1) Blaming it on luck, Rashford, referee is short-sighted. Our team lacks balance, whatever the playing style. It was true under LvG, it's equally true now.

2) Don't know why people are calling Arsenal the 'same old' bottlers. They played defensive, were second-best and still managed a point. If anything, it was United who put in a performance like the old Arsenal.

3) Is it just me or did Wenger (perhaps unknowingly and forced by injuries) play Mourinho at his own game? To some extent, it worked because Mourinho teams are not the heaviest scorers without counter-attacks.

4) Martial is not enjoying life on the left wing under Mourinho, neither is Rashford. This is the position Mkhitaryan needs to target to break into the starting eleven.

5) Three slightly tough fixtures coming up. Hopefully we get seven points.

Number 3 point was going through my head all game. it was a similar tactic in the community shield last season