It isn't down to luck. We switch off when it matters and that's the manager's fault. Mourinho needs to get the players playing until the last minute like Fergie did.
PL D FA Premier League
Manchester United 1:1 Arsenal
Post-match discussion
Sat, 19 November 2016
Luck is one of the biggest factors in any stalemate match. There's no getting away from it, all teams win and lose matches based on luck sometimes.
You are absolutely right.. Its similar to everyone saying we parked the bus at Anfield. Just the result completely changing the rhetoric of the game.
Also, same people who say we sat back, would be complaining, had we went on a attack and lost a goal on the counter.... Then, the complaints would have all been like, why dont we shut the shop, in the last few mins??..
Cop-out? Not even sure what you mean by that.
Also, I didn't say we are only good when others aren't. I just didn't.
Are we mentally weak? Absolutely. We've taken several hidings in the last three years? Manchester United... taking hidings!
Indeed, we need consistency, but this group of players have proven themselves to be hopelessly inept at finding any. Too many are too flakey. Which comes back to the mentality, too many don't possess the hunger.
Holy Christ. It seems like when we deserve to win we don't win and when we deserve to lose we lose. We're not making our own luck and it's killing us.
We only conceded one shot on goal in the entire half. I think it's extremely unrealistic to expect better than that against anyone, let alone a team of Arsenal's quality. The unlucky part is that they happened to score from that one chance.
We bossed that game, yes we conceded a late equalizer but I won't complain.
This is basically what is happening.
That game where we had 37 shots - how can you not score even 1 goal from that?
We are genuinely dominating teams at OT - I don't think anybody can argue with this - yet we are not getting the return.
A few performances lately have been ok but the number of goals scored, points and wins has been very disappointing.
6 points (effectively 7) off a CL spot, a gd of just +3 after 12 games and only 1 win in the last 5 games is desperately poor and when you consider we have only had two good wins v Leicester and Swansea this season then these are worrying times for United fans.
Only taken 2 points out of 12 from Liverpool, City, Chelsea and Arsenal as well......not good enough.
6 points (effectively 7) off a CL spot, a gd of just +3 after 12 games and only 1 win in the last 5 games is desperately poor and when you consider we have only had two good wins v Leicester and Swansea this season then these are worrying times for United fans.
Only taken 2 points out of 12 from Liverpool, City, Chelsea and Arsenal as well......not good enough.
Pretty much this.
Even after we scored, we kept going and could easily have scored again. We won quite a few corners, too, where Rojo missed a great chance to kill the game. At no point did we park the bus. You would expect a team of Arsenals calibre to produce at least one chance and, unfortunately for us, they scored from it.
Yes, but a chance and a shot on target is not the same thing. The Rojo header and the Sanchez header are both definite chances
Binary form at the moment, barring the Swansea win. 1s and 0s aren't going to get us anywhere.
I'm curious.
Had this game been at the Emirates and had we been so toothless... would anyone on here be praising Arsenal for 'nullifying' our attack and 'dominating' us.
No, you would'n't. You'd be lamenting our lack of bravery and the untidy way in which we attack. Why so many on here are quick to feign appreciation for our tactical display is beyond me. There is a semblence of a good side, nothing more at this stage, stop pretending otherwise.
Had this game been at the Emirates and had we been so toothless... would anyone on here be praising Arsenal for 'nullifying' our attack and 'dominating' us.
No, you would'n't. You'd be lamenting our lack of bravery and the untidy way in which we attack. Why so many on here are quick to feign appreciation for our tactical display is beyond me. There is a semblence of a good side, nothing more at this stage, stop pretending otherwise.
Because every year they turn up and put in an abject performance.
Every. single. year.
I dont think it was after the goal it was about the 80th minute, then he bought Schneiderlin on. Then we sat back and Arsenal came onto us. We didnt seem to be pressing them back like we had been. When we had the ball we seemed more intent of hoofing it up the pitch instead of playing it up. Fair play to the cross and goal though, although what Jones was doing sitting on the floor though, how big and powerful he is god knows.
If you want to look at it another way. We played to the best of our ability with this team and Arsenal put one of their worst performances in, and we still couldnt beat them. This time next year how many of those players will be playing in the first team, or even here? 4, or 5 maybe?
You should work for the BBC
Do us a favour and log off. FFS.
Constructive. Thanks.
After my reply, I read your subsequent posts clarifying your position and retract my claim of your argument being a 'cop-out'.
I agree that we do need to improve certain positions - certain players just are not good enough - but it is early in Jose's tenure and results will improve. Success usually does not happen overnight.
If we've benefitted from Arse and Pool not bringing their A-game (i still disagree, we did well against them and deserve credit), then we have benefitted many clubs by not bringing our A game enough either. Sometimes the players just seem disinterested. That is what riles me most.
Results will improve and Jose will get it right. I've seen enough to be confident of that.
Had a day to think about the match. It was an interesting game that told both sets of fans a lot about their teams.
Before the game, I think every Arsenal fan was hoping for the best and expecting the worse. We do seem to have a mental block at Old Trafford and we make it easy for you almost every time. From a logical perspective, many of our fans think we are the better team and therefore, should have a good chance of winning. In the end, the result was a good one for us.. mostly because of the circumstances of the game.
From an Arsenal perspective: We were utterly garbage. The worst performance I've seen from us in any competitive fixture since the 8-2 game. It's worrying for us because it shows that not only that the mental block does, indeed, exist at this ground but also that it's still alive and well even when we have been the better team for ~4 years now. I think we showed naivety and worry. The cool, competitive and pragmatic nature of an elite team continues to elude us and our title race will fall as a result of this unless we sort it out. Although some of the newer heads to our first team (Mustafi, Elneny, Coquelin) do show the fight and mettle required - even though the defending of the latter two was quite poor for your goal.
From a United perspective: I think the outlook is even more bleak than it is for us in terms of this season. This was a massive opportunity for you guys against an Arsenal team lacking in energy, commitment and belief. An opportunity to beat Arsenal doesn't come much easier than this. (we played better in all the games that you've won against us recently than we did yesterday) I'm surprised it was possible to find a way to mess it up, honestly. I think it may have been a different story should Zlatan have played.. but on the same note I could say that about Cazorla or Bellerin for ourselves.
For you guys to get Champions League football, you'll need to finish higher than 2 of Chelsea, Arsenal, City, Liverpool and Spurs. At this moment, I just can't see that happening. City and Chelsea demonstrated that they are currently a class above United in the league. You did, to be fair, get a good result against Liverpool in a disciplined performance. I don't think this was a positive result for United, though.. given simply how bad we were.
So, yeah. The game was an interesting one. Conservative. The casual, neutral fan may say 'boring' but I enjoyed it. And I don't think either set of fans can come out of it with too many positives.
Before the game, I think every Arsenal fan was hoping for the best and expecting the worse. We do seem to have a mental block at Old Trafford and we make it easy for you almost every time. From a logical perspective, many of our fans think we are the better team and therefore, should have a good chance of winning. In the end, the result was a good one for us.. mostly because of the circumstances of the game.
From an Arsenal perspective: We were utterly garbage. The worst performance I've seen from us in any competitive fixture since the 8-2 game. It's worrying for us because it shows that not only that the mental block does, indeed, exist at this ground but also that it's still alive and well even when we have been the better team for ~4 years now. I think we showed naivety and worry. The cool, competitive and pragmatic nature of an elite team continues to elude us and our title race will fall as a result of this unless we sort it out. Although some of the newer heads to our first team (Mustafi, Elneny, Coquelin) do show the fight and mettle required - even though the defending of the latter two was quite poor for your goal.
From a United perspective: I think the outlook is even more bleak than it is for us in terms of this season. This was a massive opportunity for you guys against an Arsenal team lacking in energy, commitment and belief. An opportunity to beat Arsenal doesn't come much easier than this. (we played better in all the games that you've won against us recently than we did yesterday) I'm surprised it was possible to find a way to mess it up, honestly. I think it may have been a different story should Zlatan have played.. but on the same note I could say that about Cazorla or Bellerin for ourselves.
For you guys to get Champions League football, you'll need to finish higher than 2 of Chelsea, Arsenal, City, Liverpool and Spurs. At this moment, I just can't see that happening. City and Chelsea demonstrated that they are currently a class above United in the league. You did, to be fair, get a good result against Liverpool in a disciplined performance. I don't think this was a positive result for United, though.. given simply how bad we were.
So, yeah. The game was an interesting one. Conservative. The casual, neutral fan may say 'boring' but I enjoyed it. And I don't think either set of fans can come out of it with too many positives.
Yes Jose definitely went more defensive with his subs and tried to shut up shop - its clear for the goal that Rashford is playing like wingback (as he did against Liverpool). In hindsight you can say it was a mistake as Arse had created virtually nothing before that but we invited them to have a go and ended up paying for it.
Nice to have this perspective from an Arsenal supporter.
Personally though, I've been disappointed at the way so much of the focus has been on how poorly Arsenal played.
I think there's still plenty to play for.
I saw nothing from that game that suggested United couldn't make up 6/7 points on that Arsenal team over the next 26 games.
Idiots. Should have closed the game much before. Surprised by the lack of quality by Arsenal.
Maybe we were just better in almost all departments.
Maybe we were just better in almost all departments.
We have been bad at defending with extra people in dying minutes. Subs like Morgan in last few mins almost never works for us. It has been like that since SAF' times.
I think we should play our normal game and try to create chances (Not run forward like feck)
I think we should play our normal game and try to create chances (Not run forward like feck)
Need to find out from Chelsea and Liverpool how they manage to keep beating teams.
Or maybe Arsenal being poor was a result of how well we played but of course we didn't win, so, good on you.
Saturday's result was definitely down to how awful Arsenal was, and only that
When do we ever get credit? Anytime we play well & don't give the opposition a sniff, you hear stuff like how the opposition was bad & didn't turn up or stuff like that. This wasn't the case, we were set-up very well & pressed Arsenal to submission, our midfield completely bossed the game. The match though, sums up United at the moment, we don't do enough over 90 minutes & it's been clear for a long time now that sitting back & inviting pressure isn't the best option to see out games with this team. In fact, anytime we take our foot off the pedal, we usually ALWAYS concede, whether it's Leicester at home or Swansea away, we always concede. Mourinho has a lot of work to do but on the evidence of this game, I am quite positive. However, we need to start picking up the 3 points that these performances deserve.
You guys were garbage because we absolutely dominated you. This nonsense of you lacking energy or belief is a bizarre rhetoric to somehow claim it was an off-day and not because of the opposition. You guys huffed as shown by Sanchez but Arsene came for a draw and he must have kissed a lot of frogs because that result was not something which you would have gotten otherwise.
I am surprised how poor Arsenal are actually. Yes they are ahead of us on the table but they are bang average if Sanchez or Ozil don't shine. Your midfield without Cazorla is poor and Walcott is just Walcott. We should have actually scored at least one more but sometimes the luck doesn't go your way. The stonewall penalty not being given just shows that our side has not really been getting the rub of the green.
Having seen your lot against Middlesborough and us, you guys are there for the taking and not really as good as your supporters think they are.
Yup agree with this, it happens all the time. Opposition fans say arse were poor so ergo man Utd were poor also. We (lfc) had it with the arse and Chelsea game. Arsenal were not fit and if Chelsea had set up with 3 at the back it would have been different.
Happened again in reverse yesterday. Southampton were smashed by Chelsea last week so that makes pool poor.
Fact remains you need a bit of luck. You need your team to have 8/10 performances and to finish a few chances. Teams go though these spells of bad luck or/and finishing but it don't make your team a poor one.
To me, utd look to be on the up despite the draw yesterday. You pretty much controlled the game from start to finish and a second would have sealed it.
Pogba looks a little better too, seems to be settling. Still a way to go mind but better than the first few games.
Shouldn't be all doom and gloom for Utd fans. Granted, you're a little off the pace ATM but we're only 12 games in.
It's purely luck, the cyclical phenomenon all teams undergo at one time or the other. I remember Suarez in his penultimate season here, when a lot of his attempts just kissed the crosspiece and went over. Next year, his shots begin to go in, in stead of over, and Liverpool almost became the PL winner. It happens. Luck may turn for us, even within this season itself.
We play well but dont manage to win the game. We have to start finishing teams off and stay focused the whole 90 mins.
I tend to agree with large elements - though we were the far better team we didn't give Cech too hard a time......
Our final ball was very poor and we played as though we were looking for Zlatan.....
Rashford and Martial had ok games and we were relying on them having an impact....their time will come though
We have played worse than we did on Saturday and comfortably beaten an Arsenal who have played better in the past than they did that day so this rationale that we should be worried that we couldn't beat a 'poor' Arsenal team is a cause for concern is bollox, also considering that we missed many more important players than they did particularly at the back.
As for us not winning I'm very frustrated at how 'unclinical' we are and it's particularly worrying as it's largely mental IMO and something we lacked even last year against City at home and away at Chelsea which we really should have won. We play reasonably well and create chances but don't look like scoring and need 10 shots to score once butconcede soft goals from which we can't come back because we are unclinical and collapse mentally. I really hope Jose fixes this soon because in a hotly contested top 6 it will keep costing us when we cannot win games we don't play that well in and also cannot win many games where we play well in.
As for us not winning I'm very frustrated at how 'unclinical' we are and it's particularly worrying as it's largely mental IMO and something we lacked even last year against City at home and away at Chelsea which we really should have won. We play reasonably well and create chances but don't look like scoring and need 10 shots to score once butconcede soft goals from which we can't come back because we are unclinical and collapse mentally. I really hope Jose fixes this soon because in a hotly contested top 6 it will keep costing us when we cannot win games we don't play that well in and also cannot win many games where we play well in.
It's very convenient to brush off a quality display from the opposition by simply stating your team didn't turn up. Maybe, just maybe, how well/bad a team plays actually depends on what the opposition does.
Exactly.
Your only as good as your allowed play.
I was dreading this game beforehand and it played out just as awful as I feared. I absolutely hate watching games where we're second best and this was definitely one of those games. During the game I heard a stat that we hadn't scored against a Mourinho team in 6 or so consecutive games now, and it really showed again this game.
The fact that we came away with a stolen point makes my post-game mood a bit better, but this was definitely not a game I enjoyed watching.
The fact that we came away with a stolen point makes my post-game mood a bit better, but this was definitely not a game I enjoyed watching.
Arsenal will get nowhere near the title as it showed me the side is still gutless.
The team are improving. Arsenal are a good team and if you'd been offered a draw before the game you probably would have taken it. You're just gutted because the goal came so late. You were the better team so make the most of it.
Player Ratings
Total Average Rating
Highest Rated Player
Lowest Rated Player
Compiled from 463 ratings.
Score Predictions
380,172,122
- Man Utd win
- Arsenal win
- Draw
Detailed Results
- 25% Man Utd 2:1 Arsenal
- 11% Man Utd 1:1 Arsenal
- 9% Man Utd 1:0 Arsenal
- 8% Man Utd 2:0 Arsenal
- 7% Man Utd 1:2 Arsenal
- 6% Man Utd 1:3 Arsenal
- 6% Man Utd 3:1 Arsenal
- 4% Man Utd 0:2 Arsenal
- 4% Man Utd 0:0 Arsenal
- 3% Man Utd 2:2 Arsenal
- 3% Man Utd 0:3 Arsenal
- 3% Man Utd 3:0 Arsenal
- 2% Man Utd 3:2 Arsenal
- 2% Man Utd 5:0 Arsenal
- 2% Man Utd 0:1 Arsenal
- 2% Man Utd 0:5 Arsenal
- 1% Man Utd 4:1 Arsenal
- 1% Man Utd 2:3 Arsenal
- 0% Man Utd 4:0 Arsenal
- 0% Man Utd 4:2 Arsenal
- 0% Man Utd 0:4 Arsenal
- 0% Man Utd 2:5 Arsenal
- 0% Man Utd 1:4 Arsenal
- 0% Man Utd 1:5 Arsenal
- 0% Man Utd 5:1 Arsenal
- 0% Man Utd 5:4 Arsenal
Match Stats
- Man Utd
- Arsenal
- Possession
- 45% 55%
- Shots
- 12 5
- Shots on Target
- 5 1
- Corners
- 10 4
- Fouls
- 14 11
Referee
Andre Marriner
Man Utd Lineup
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replaced by Daley Blind
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replaced by Morgan Schneiderlin
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replaced by Wayne Rooney
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