Amadaeus whom claims to be a Man United fan has posted around 15 times alone today all Pochettino related yet not one on the passing of a Man United legend. This wum routine is well past it's sell by date.
Pochettino | Agrees to be US National Team Coach
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Happen to watch the game today. Chelsea is getting better and better. Maybe in the second half of the season, they will become something special.
Come on mate. Poch is a good manager but Pep and Klopp are the best managers of their generation and Pep is arguably the greatest manager ever. Poch is not greater than or equal to either of them.
Everyone makes fun of this, but I remember years ago when people were making fun of Klopp and Liverpool “maybe they can have an xG trophy made for them !”
If you keep playing better than the other teams and also keep improving … it eventually shines through.
Everyone also said that about Potter
One thing Pochettino needs to get more credit for is Conor Gallagher. The number of very talented people who came through Chelsea’s old academy thinking they were the next great attacking midfielder …. Wasted.
Conor has transformed into a machine that dominates and pressures play this year; probably what he should have been all along. It was about two weeks ago that apparently only Rodri had better defensive stats than him. In terms of pressing numbers and winning balls he was in Kante territory, and most importantly … the 2 or 3 passes that were so dumb they might cost you a game he was famous for have been nowhere to be seen.
I was all on the “sell Conor” bandwagon, but now I see a starting England lineup without him on midfield and just think …. That’s really dumb.
Big transfornation. Very happy for him.
Conor has transformed into a machine that dominates and pressures play this year; probably what he should have been all along. It was about two weeks ago that apparently only Rodri had better defensive stats than him. In terms of pressing numbers and winning balls he was in Kante territory, and most importantly … the 2 or 3 passes that were so dumb they might cost you a game he was famous for have been nowhere to be seen.
I was all on the “sell Conor” bandwagon, but now I see a starting England lineup without him on midfield and just think …. That’s really dumb.
Big transfornation. Very happy for him.
I agree but its more fun to laugh at a rival when that rival isnt winning but actually improving than having to admit that a rival is actually improving.
Mate Unless there is a significant difference between Xg of two teams and your team is regularly hitting Xg of 2 regularly while keeping opponents down to 1.25 or less on regular basis game would more often than not could go either way So while you can definitely be hopeful of better results going forward but you aren't turning into Liverpool any time soon .
We didn’t perform super well statistically under potter. Our xG was better than our goal output, but in other key areas we were really bad.Everyone also said that about Potter
Potter was a dumb hire, but not because the things Potter does don’t have merit… but because you have an entirely new team that barely knows each other. Potters system is so unnecessarily complicated that it can take a year of training and watching for even good players to know where they are supposed to be at any given time. Asking a very young, mostly new team to pick it up quickly … no.
IF you had really planned to give him a few years, maybe.
There were more than a few times last year where Cucurella took heat for being way out of position, but the truth is he was the only one who knew where he was supposed to go, others didn’t and hung him out to dry.
If Someone hires Potter they need to realize they are building toward a regular core that plays a VERY unique style, and you can’t afford to have more that 2 or 3 additions each year learning.
that’s an astonishing take
We are doing something like that though. We have some of the best defensive stats in the league and our xG differential is substantial. That’s why when the computer came out and said, based purely on stat analysis of games , Chelsea should be 3rd or 4 th, it started this whole silly speculation.
From the site I’m looking at we have an xG of 1.8 per game, and an Oppo xG of .97 …. So essentially exactly the gap you’re describing is needing.
Until we do something with it its pointless, but it is validation of what the people that watch every game have been stating: we are playing very well and building on something, and that’s with 4 or 5 key players (including our best offensive player) set to return soon for the first time this season.
Chelsea are still a work in progress but it does seem like they already have more of a clear style of play than we ever have had under eth.
Really laughable how so many of here were keen to trash poch as a manager when he was being talked about as United manager.
Not even saying he is a top manager but the idea eth was proven to be much better was a massive stretch.
Really laughable how so many of here were keen to trash poch as a manager when he was being talked about as United manager.
Not even saying he is a top manager but the idea eth was proven to be much better was a massive stretch.
It is correct though.
Example: on one of the goals we gave up last year he had slid to the middle to cover a role in midfield, which under Potters system IS what he should have done given where the opposing team had the ball. The left wing slides back and down and the central of the back 3 slides over . The space was left completely open the ball gets played through that gap.
But Cucurella was where Potter would have wanted him.
The fans and pundits were all going “doesn’t that moron know he’s the left sided CB? Maybe he needs to cut his hair to see!”
This was around the time the article came out where Cucurella tried explaining how he had to sit for a majority of a year at Brighton before he picked up the system well enough to play. I think he was politely trying to defend himself.
I actually looked up your xg stats from Under Stat with game by game breakdown only Game where you can feel hard done by was Against Forest otherwise in most of the games where you have dropped points you weren't significantly superior to your opposition so results doesn't surprise me at all it would continue to happen unless you improve further .
But the thing is sample size is fairly small at the moment and you haven't even figured out what should be your best eleven and then the injuries , while there is plenty to look forward to an element of caution is still warranted .
I was actually referring to him at Brighton, where Potter was underperforming his xG and a reason why you probably went for him.
I do think the excuses being made for poch were MIA with Potter. I think at least Potter can be attributed to unique style. Poch's is hardly unique.
Ohhh I have tons of caution. Not the least of which is making sure we do a full review of our medical and training staff. That’s why I said until it ends up in results it doesn’t amount to much. It has to translate to make any difference.
So I agree completely with that
That's such a bs statement but then again I am not surprised as for some grass is always greener on the other side.
I am not saying either manager was necessarily the right person but just find it laughable how so many on here felt the need to make out ten hag was so clearly better suited to the United job than poch.
Also not saying Chelsea have a particularly refined style of play as yet but I don't see that we have any style of play
it’s not correct. If one player is doing their own thing and it’s not working, it’s HIS fault and his alone.
We have been piss poor this season and had your post said chelsea this season have looked better than us, I won't have responded to your post but to say we never had any style under eth is plain wrong. We played some sublime football last season from WC to the carabao win. We dominated teams and looked comfortable with the ball.
Also, it helps poch to play one game every week rather playing thursday nights as well like we had to last season.
No, I’m implying Cucurella was doing exactly what Potter wanted, and literally everyone else was confused and reverted back to playing the way they were used to, leaving gaps.
That was my biggest critique of Potter last year was that he only mildly stood up for Cucurella, and that essentially amounted to not backing him. And he didn’t adapt. The smart play would have been to try to implement elements of what he wanted slowly, while using a lot of what people had a comfort level with.
His alternative choices were to: A: throw the rest of the team under the bus, or B: admit he simply couldn’t coach well enough to get his super complicated system across to players fast enough.
I blame the owners on this one though, because in a project where you plan on having young players continually coming through and challenging for positions … a system that takes two years to pick up is not a good choice.
cucurella was VERY poor in possession though, tactics aren’t responsible for that.
No, that’s a completely different issue…. Mostly.
Although I think his confidence was completely shot. I think, like with the work with Gallagher, Pochettino or one of the new coaches should get credit for bringing him back around.
I say possibly though, because there is every chance that when he receives the ball, say, out wide, he was supposed to look up and see two particular players having slid over to be outlets and someone else rotating out to provide space forward.
Instead the outlets don’t shift over correctly, and the midfielder who should have been back as an outlet was standing where the open space should be, right alongside the co fused winger who also should have made a space creating run; bringing their defenders with them.
Cucurella is not the only player we did stuff like that to last year. Some tried to play Potters system and got confused, some tried to revert to their traditional roles and hoped it wouldn’t mess things up too much, and some just wandered around wherever they wanted.
And in the presser Potter would pretend they were listening to him.
Pochettino has employed more complicated tactics in the past than he has used so far with Chelsea. And I think that’s by design. After last year the team needed a reset and s focus on building fundamental teamwork, confidence and conditioning.
I mean this is just utterly ludicrous now that I can’t actually fathom how you, yourself, believe what you’re saying.
Pep Guardiola, a manager who has won 36 trophies over the course of his career, two UEFA manager of the year awards, won 12 league titles in 15 seasons, revolutionised the game on numerous occasions, played a widely-envied and highly attractive, possession-based game and proven himself in three major leagues is = to Pochettino: a fairly good manager who has won three trophies in his whole career. All of which, with a team that utterly dwarfs every side in its league (from a financial perspective).
Oh, but he does win the xG trophy from time to time so, yeah sure, absolutely he rivals Pep. Klopp’s not even on Pep’s level and he’s still a tier (at least) above Poch.
Overrated player praises overrated manager. Nothing wierd about that.
Pochettino is way over his level. He was fine at Southampton and thats it. Tottenham career was due to previous managers after they left him team full of internationals and stars. PSG was if not bad, pretty poor. He needs to go back to coach lower teams. I would say Everton would be a good choice. Or Bournmouth.
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I wouldn't take him at United but I think he's winning the debate between him and ETH.
It's not Poch influence alone on their style of play. They have been building the foundation for this style with Tuchel, Potter for past few seasons. Poch at PSG showed that politic can get in the way of manager implement his style of play. It's not simple that a manager can just transform a team over night. Currently Chelsea is still below us and they don't have to play in European competition. Let's wait and see if Chelsea bosses would be happy with performance and not result for the two seasons running after spending insane amount in short amount of time.
Nobody said ETH is more proven. He's on the rise where as Poch had shown sign of stagnant. Last season confirmed that ETH has the potential even when he's new to the league.
What kind of debate though? He would be a better manager for us than ETH, taking over from last season?
The discourse around Poch in this thread would be much more interesting if everyone just left this one poster to his devices. It’s literally the most boring thread in the entire forum.
Is he? Don't think there's anything between them right now to be honest.
Based on what?
You won't see many teams with a refined style of play who have only one fit full back to choose from and have both of their first choice centre backs missing.
I'm not exactly the biggest Ten Hag fan, but we do need to realise that no manager would have us playing scintillating football right now considering our injury list.
Recency bias is the thing that's killed the reputation around the prospect of Poch's management. If Erik achieved what Poch did at Tottenham point for point, league position for league position and UCL final for UCL final the forum would overwhelmingly consider that a significant success. Anyone telling themselves otherwise is fooling themselves.
I think what Erik initially brought to United was a projective identification of something that was appeasing to the club's direction, a presumably possession based manager revolved around the ethos of Ajax, front foot football and a solid coach to help individual players raise their level. If Erik played Jose football the fans would have had no interest because his CV wasn't anything significant to back him as a success on, aside giving Ajax some stability in a league that isn't even closely as competitive as the premier League.
So provisionally there's a parallel where Poch's CV was substantially being used against him and the promise of what Erik would seemingly bring to the table was the upsell. It's funny to see how the latter is playing out with Erik however. As is the case with recency bias however Poch no one has really given consideration to Pochs ability to coach a team and that's what's being unearthed at present.
So the difference between Poch and Eth is just like the financial markets, one person's stock was low and the others stock was high but once the speculation dies down the true revelation of the stocks value is revealed and that's the reality we are living in at present.
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Agreed. I avoid it because of him.
I think some wanted to trash him to defend Ole. Now they're dug in and insisting that he's a fraud. I think he's pretty good but not much better than EtH.
I assume based on the last couple of months and a lack of attention to Chelsea.
The debate around Poch has always been too absolute. He's either a genius or a fraud, it's nonsense. He's clearly a very capable, good manager but he's not a great one. He can do very well in the right setup but can also fail when things don't go smoothly. I think we're starting to see him turning things around for Chelsea now, but they are coming from so far behind who knows what the ceiling is.
Poch for all the seasons with Tottenham only finished twice with more point than us last season. (77 and 86 vs 75). It took Poch a couple season with Tottenham before getting there. He had already had PL experience with Southampton, too. Why people seem to sweep Poch first season with Tottenham and the final few months into the new season before Poch got sacked, under the rug?
Poch Tottenham got to CL final after eliminating ETH's Ajax by away goal rule, in dramatic fashion: AKA Ajax threw away huge advantage. It reflects badly on ETH and Ajax? Sure. But it can be interpreted that a stronger side, more experienced, higher paid side got lucky. The margin is close enough that with current CL rule eliminating away goal, that tie was not over!!!
Poch had already used up that CL finalist credit with getting PSG and Chelsea. It's no achievement just to be there and lose. Outside of that one season CL, Poch run in CL and EL with Tottenham was underwhelming if not to say outright shite. More importantly Poch won nothing with Tottenham a team he luckily got for cheap.
ETH already won a trophy with us and made another final in the first season. Poch never made it to two finals in a season with Tottenham. The competitiveness in the league last season and currently is no lesser than Poch time with Tottenham.
Right now, for all rightful bashing on our playing style, result wise we're still better in the league despite facing a more severe injury crisis. The excuse that Chelsea is one prolific scorer away from being good is wishful thinking because the striker market is very difficult now and they had problem finding that scorer for Sarri, Lampard, Tuchel, Potter. People should be worried about whether Poch would be able to even make top 4 with Chelsea this season because if he wouldn't; he wouldn't be compared kindly to Sarri, Lampard first stint first season (transfer ban) and Tuchel tenure facing similar scoring issue. There would be no excuse there and then for Poch.
In short, Poch himself has more things to be worried about for the sake of his own reputation than taking a moral victory over ETH.